Thoughts on the truth regarding Lillie and UB-01 (Minor Spoilers)?

[TouyaShiro]

To be honest, the only conclusion I can draw from all of this is that if she wasn't under Nihilego's influence when her personality started to change and her obsession with saving the Ultra Beasts began, that's probably a more terrifying thought than whatever juju comes up when you are made into a symbiont with Nihilego - the fact that she would willingly let herself stoop down to the level of letting a very dangerous being overtake her body despite the risk of losing her sense of self and losing to her inhibitions and primal instinct almost completely, knowing what kind of madness it brings if you pull out after the whole experience (as may be hinted at by how Guzma reacted to being possessed by one himself)... Geez, it was enough for a mother to attempt killing her own daughter!

As for why the game doesn't come out and clarify these things... I dunno if it's actually the best idea to clarify everything. Everyone's open to their own interpretation if you leave it vague like that, and I think that's more healthy so long as they give enough details on what has happened - Better to speculate whether one or the other happened, rather than argue about what did happen and what 'should have" happened. Of course you're gonna get the latter regardless, but in my opinion, I think we're best off in the position we're at right now because we neither side will have the conclusive evidence to shut down all others in terms of what's believe to be "canon".

 

[Esserise]

the fact that she would willingly let herself stoop down to the level of letting a very dangerous being overtake her body despite the risk of losing her sense of self and losing to her inhibitions and primal instinct almost completely, knowing what kind of madness it brings if you pull out after the whole experience

I'm not sure that this information was known by her in advance, so I don't know that she'd be factoring it into her decision to reach Ultra Space.

As for why the game doesn't come out and clarify these things... I dunno if it's actually the best idea to clarify everything. Everyone's open to their own interpretation if you leave it vague like that, and I think that's more healthy so long as they give enough details on what has happened - Better to speculate whether one or the other happened, rather than argue about what did happen and what 'should have" happened. Of course you're gonna get the latter regardless, but in my opinion, I think we're best off in the position we're at right now because we neither side will have the conclusive evidence to shut down all others in terms of what's believe to be "canon".

I agree to the extent that not everything in a story should be strictly defined - ambiguities can be good and can prompt discussion about the deeper themes in a story. But there's a fine line between being thought-provoking and leaving the story's intentions up to debate, and just being confusingly muddled and making it hard to tell what the story's intentions actually were. Especially since we know that she was exposed to the neurotoxins at some point - but it isn't clear as to when, and the truth of that could drastically change our understanding of the story. It's an important detail to leave out.

Say, hypothetically, that they had come outright and said that Lusamine's extreme behavior was all the result of long-ago contact with Nihilego. Well, it wouldn't necessarily be shutting down any one side in a debate, because the certainty of what's communicated would preclude the existence of a debate to begin with. It would just be the facts, with which we are to deal. There would be no question, nor any need for one - the nature of her character would be clear and indisputable. From there, one could still make meaningful inferences or speculations about just how far her personality was being exaggerated by the neurotoxins - "She's pretty authoritarian now, but how controlling was she before? Perhaps she was still a somewhat flawed mother even before the contact..." - something along those lines.

As it stands, what we have is a vague asterisk next to what we're told - that is, the stuff about Mohn and her desire to reach Ultra Space being an extension or mutation of her desire to to find him. Because her behavior does seem suspiciously consistent with that of Nihilego's hosts as Wicke describes them, and yet, other information in the story seems to rule out that possibility. As far as we know, Nihilego can't inject people without being in proximity to them (that is to say, she probably wasn't being influenced from a distance by a Nihilego in Ultra Space), which would mean that in order for her behavior to have been influenced by one, she would have had to have made contact with one in the past - but her reaction to its appearance in the conservatory seems like that of a first impression, and she doesn't confirm until then that Cosmog can open wormholes, which would logically rule out the idea that she's ever opened a wormhole of her own prior to then (and suggesting that she did so through means other than Cosmog begs too many questions of its own to be feasible).

Which is where I'm torn. On one hand, I would generally prefer for her to have agency over her own shortcomings. I find that more dramatic and compelling, especially as it pertains to Lillie, since it makes Lusamine harder to forgive. One can sympathize with how she ended up the way she did, even if it led to her going way too far. However, her excess is still ultimately her own fault, and it still irrevocably poisoned Lillie's childhood, and Lusamine must make amends for that. If indeed we see the character again, this could make for an interesting character arc.

On the other hand, having her behavior being influenced by Nihilego's neurotoxins makes a lot of sense. Pokémon isn't really built to sustain complex human drama, so Nihilego's neurotoxins are exactly the sort of broad sketch of character motivation that they can really work with in order to anchor her character to a fundamental position. But as a result, it excuses her from accountability. Lillie can't really hold Lusamine responsible for her failings as a mother, because they wouldn't have been her fault - if she had simply never been injected with the toxins, she wouldn't have become obsessed and their lives wouldn't have been derailed. Moreover, if the contact occurred back when Mohn disappeared, then that would excuse her even further - she would have fallen victim to Nihilego because of an experiment she wasn't even conducting!

Ideally, what I would do is say that she began research into Ultra Space of her own accord in order to find Mohn, but failure after failure led to her becoming obsessed with Ultra Space - which led to her probing it deeper and deeper, until eventually the tissue between the dimensions had worn thin enough for a Nihilego to affect her from a distance (with the thought of the creature being sown in her subconscious, explaining why she dresses Lillie like one). That way, she isn't completely a victim - she still did become obsessed with Ultra Space, but for sympathetic reasons. It's just that there was an unforeseen consequence in that it exposed her to Nihilego's influence, which drove her out of control.

 

[TouyaShiro]

I'm not sure that this information was known by her in advance, so I don't know that she'd be factoring it into her decision to reach Ultra Space.

Pulling out after a taste of the experience, or just knowing that in general? A few things I'll point out about this:

• If Lusamine gave a damn, she would have how Guzma reacted after Nihilego briefly took him over - he was shook by the experience
• They had to have a research team at some point. No idea how far they would have gotten researching the UBs themselves, but they definitely wanted to catch them so they may have had researchers trying to figure out what the UBs are capable of, or what their biology was

Really, it's that first point which has me more concerned. How legitimately batshit insane did she become, and how under the influence was she at that point if any? I guess we're speculating far more on fridge horror territory at this point...

I'm not sure what else to say on the rest of that post.

 

[Ghostsoul]

My general assumption was that Lusamine dressed Lillie as Nihilego because of her obsession with the Ultra Beasts, I'm guessing she had dressed herself in replication of Pheromosa (possibly subconsciously) this could even lead to her convincing or manipulating Guzma to resemble Xurkitree.
Guzma could have been a 'trial run' for Lusamine, perhaps he even set him up to fail the challenge and make him eventually turn bitter. Perhaps she would eventually come to manipulate Gladion and Lillie in a similar way so they would serve her ultimate pursuit of finding the ultra beasts and not bother with the 'island challenge' as well as turning them against society in general.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Guzma was just like any other kid who didn't finish the island trial-why not manipulate Kukui instead, or any of the grunts? It seems more likely to me Lusamine is manipulating Guzma now because he can be manipulated now, not that she just picked some poor sap.

 

[Esserise]

My general assumption was that Lusamine dressed Lillie as Nihilego because of her obsession with the Ultra Beasts, I'm guessing she had dressed herself in replication of Pheromosa (possibly subconsciously) this could even lead to her convincing or manipulating Guzma to resemble Xurkitree.

The issue here is that it's said in the post-game that only Nihilego and Guzzlord had been seen prior to Lusamine opening wormholes all over Alola. Before then, there'd been no recorded sightings of Pheromosa, Xurkitree, and the others, so Lusamine shouldn't know what they look like.

I suppose one could say that she knew about them and just didn't mention them to anybody else, but then you have to ask a) how did she know about them, b) why aren't we told this information, considering that Wicke and the International Police would have been able to go through any of Lusamine's private files in the aftermath there's no reason for Wicke to still be saying that Pheromosa et al. were only seen for the first time recently, and c) exactly how many secret unspoken schemes that contradict what we're told are we going to assign to Lusamine by the end of all this?

Guzma could have been a 'trial run' for Lusamine, perhaps he even set him up to fail the challenge and make him eventually turn bitter. Perhaps she would eventually come to manipulate Gladion and Lillie in a similar way so they would serve her ultimate pursuit of finding the ultra beasts and not bother with the 'island challenge' as well as turning them against society in general.

Firstly, I don't think Guzma actually failed the island challenge. He's bitter because he was denied a term as a Captain, but if he had failed the challenge, then logically he would never have been considered for a Captainship to begin with. He's a reject - somebody who cleared the challenge but wasn't deemed Captain material (because he fails to recognize the strength of others). This plays into a trend of his life - that he does have it in him to do well, but has consistently never been acknowledged as the best. We see this illustrated with the trophies in his room - several bronze, and one silver, but no gold. For Guzma, the irony of this is that it is his own shortcoming turned against him. He can't recognize the strength of others, and so his own strength is never rewarded. That's what Hala explains to him in the post-game. Prior to that, he obeyed Lusamine because she did acknowledge his strength. Fittingly, that actually led him astray and nearly got him stuck in Ultra Space.

Secondly, Gladion and Lillie don't really have anything to offer in terms of her attempt to reach Ultra Space. What would her "manipulation" of them even lead to, exactly? Them being embittered toward Alola's society doesn't help her get to Ultra Space any faster or easier.

I don't think Lusamine was manipulating anybody to any particular end. She cared singularly about getting into Ultra Space. It's true that Gladion and Lillie's defiance was difficult for her to cope with, and that's where the hazy issue of her clarity of mind begins to plague the topic, but primarily, their departures were inconvenient because they absconded with assets that were critical to her research. And then Guzma is just hired muscle, more-or-less. He and Team Skull are convenient to her because they can retrieve Cosmog without it reflecting on the Aether Foundation, and all she has to do is butter Guzma up.

 

[Ghostsoul]

The issue here is that it's said in the post-game that only Nihilego and Guzzlord had been seen prior to Lusamine opening wormholes all over Alola. Before then, there'd been no recorded sightings of Pheromosa, Xurkitree, and the others, so Lusamine shouldn't know what they look like.
I suppose one could say that she knew about them and just didn't mention them to anybody else, but then you have to ask a) how did she know about them, b) why aren't we told this information, considering that Wicke and the International Police would have been able to go through any of Lusamine's private files in the aftermath there's no reason for Wicke to still be saying that Pheromosa et al. were only seen for the first time recently, and c) exactly how many secret unspoken schemes that contradict what we're told are we going to assign to Lusamine by the end of all this?

It was originally Lusamine's husband Mohn who begun researching the ultra-beasts so it's possible she had some basic information on them, perhaps no accurate drawings but at least some sketches as to what they might roughly could look like according to the research they carried out. Plus, it's stated that they have only been seen recently, as in physically seen. There is no reason for Mohn and/or Lusamine to have speculated their existence. The information would have been not much more than we already know, therefore it's not all that important that we aren't told earlier or it is stated to be significant.

Firstly, I don't think Guzma actually failed the island challenge. He's bitter because he was denied a term as a Captain, but if he had failed the challenge, then logically he would never have been considered for a Captainship to begin with. He's a reject - somebody who cleared the challenge but wasn't deemed Captain material (because he fails to recognize the strength of others). This plays into a trend of his life - that he does have it in him to do well, but has consistently never been acknowledged as the best. We see this illustrated with the trophies in his room - several bronze, and one silver, but no gold. For Guzma, the irony of this is that it is his own shortcoming turned against him. He can't recognize the strength of others, and so his own strength is never rewarded. That's what Hala explains to him in the post-game. Prior to that, he obeyed Lusamine because she did acknowledge his strength. Fittingly, that actually led him astray and nearly got him stuck in Ultra Space.

Secondly, Gladion and Lillie don't really have anything to offer in terms of her attempt to reach Ultra Space. What would her "manipulation" of them even lead to, exactly? Them being embittered toward Alola's society doesn't help her get to Ultra Space any faster or easier.

I don't think Lusamine was manipulating anybody to any particular end. She cared singularly about getting into Ultra Space. It's true that Gladion and Lillie's defiance was difficult for her to cope with, and that's where the hazy issue of her clarity of mind begins to plague the topic, but primarily, their departures were inconvenient because they absconded with assets that were critical to her research. And then Guzma is just hired muscle, more-or-less. He and Team Skull are convenient to her because they can retrieve Cosmog without it reflecting on the Aether Foundation, and all she has to do is butter Guzma up.

Whether he 'failed' or not and to what degree isn't specifically important here, Lusamine has at least been manipulating Guzma's life to some degree, to what degree and when is unkown, but she could have managed to even manipulate his clothing choices (Lusamine does regard 'beauty' whether that be metaphorical or litreal to be important).

Even if she wasn't manipulating people to a specific end but she could have been manipulating them so that they could be loyal to her (well, she failed) and eventually get her to ultra space eventually somehow. Her simple ineffectiveness (possibly because of her stubbornness and narcissistic tendencies) made her loose control of Lillie, Gladion and eventually even Guzma.

 

[Esserise]

It was originally Lusamine's husband Mohn who begun researching the ultra-beasts so it's possible she had some basic information on them, perhaps no accurate drawings but at least some sketches as to what they might roughly could look like according to the research they carried out. Plus, it's stated that they have only been seen recently, as in physically seen. There is no reason for Mohn and/or Lusamine to have speculated their existence. The information would have been not much more than we already know, therefore it's not all that important that we aren't told earlier or it is stated to be significant.

It's possible, yes, but then it raises the question of why they do say something different for Nihilego.

Consider Wicke's dialogue:

> "Properly known as Nihilego. There have been sightings reported of this beast in Alola's past."

> "Properly known as Buzzwole/Pheromosa/Xurkitree/Celesteela/Kartana. This UB was sighted for the first time following the incidents at Aether Foundation."

> "Properly known as Guzzlord. This UB has been sighted in the Alola region in the past as well, according to our reports. It seems it was targeted by the International Police in a top-secret mission at that time."

Now, cross-reference that with what Gladion tells us:

> "But my father...He disappeared during an experiment. Trying to connect to an Ultra Wormhole. All that was left behind was a weakened Cosmog and his papers about Nihilego..."

So Nihilego, unlike the other Beasts (barring Guzzlord, but we know the circumstances of its appearance), has been seen in Alola's past. And naturally, Mohn's research papers were about Nihilego. And Lusamine is, of course, singularly fixated on Nihilego. This all makes sense if Nihilego is the only one they know about, which would be consistent with there being no information about the other Beasts prior to the events of the game.

You could say that they may have had rough sketches of them, but if that was the intention, then why didn't the game simply say "his papers about the Ultra Beasts" rather than "his papers about Nihilego"? They locked it into specificity when there was no inherent need to do so if they'd wanted to say something else. And why does Lusamine supposedly style herself after Pheromosa instead of Nihilego? And why Xurkitree for Guzma? Why is nobody dressed like Kartana or Buzzwole or Celesteela? Indeed, the only character who is implied to be styled after a Beast's appearance is Lillie, who is of course dressed like Nihilego - the only non-Guzzlord Ultra Beast that is stated to have been known about in advance. Coincidence?

Whether he 'failed' or not and to what degree isn't specifically important here, Lusamine has at least been manipulating Guzma's life to some degree, to what degree and when is unkown, but she could have managed to even manipulate his clothing choices (Lusamine does regard 'beauty' whether that be metaphorical or litreal to be important).

But again, at some point doesn't it become excessive? We keep implicating her in all these elaborate conspiracies which are completely unsuggested by the games themselves - eventually it just looks like we're making things up and slapping them onto her for the sheer sake of it.

I mean, why stop there? Colress appears in Alola and he's sciencey. So maybe he used to/still does work for the Foundation, and Lusamine was secretly using him to control Team Plasma! She had a set of DNA Splicers, so why not? For that matter, she also had a Prison Bottle - maybe it was her who used Hoopa's power to drop all those Legendary Pokémon on the Hoenn region, as a "test run" to see what would happen if she breached the dimensions! She had Soul Dew, too - maybe she had Brendan/May assassinated and took it from them! Oh look, we even get some of that overly-grimdark Fridge Horror that the fandom loves so much...

The games don't actively contradict any of what I just said, so it's all plausible, despite being deliberately absurd. But given the obvious lack of endorsement for these ideas by the games themselves, we can say with some relative certainty that they aren't accurate interpretations of what the story is saying.

 

[Ghostsoul]

It's possible, yes, but then it raises the question of why they do say something different for Nihilego.

Consider Wicke's dialogue:

> "Properly known as Nihilego. There have been sightings reported of this beast in Alola's past."

> "Properly known as Buzzwole/Pheromosa/Xurkitree/Celesteela/Kartana. This UB was sighted for the first time following the incidents at Aether Foundation."

> "Properly known as Guzzlord. This UB has been sighted in the Alola region in the past as well, according to our reports. It seems it was targeted by the International Police in a top-secret mission at that time."

Now, cross-reference that with what Gladion tells us:

> "But my father...He disappeared during an experiment. Trying to connect to an Ultra Wormhole. All that was left behind was a weakened Cosmog and his papers about Nihilego..."

So Nihilego, unlike the other Beasts (barring Guzzlord, but we know the circumstances of its appearance), has been seen in Alola's past. And naturally, Mohn's research papers were about Nihilego. And Lusamine is, of course, singularly fixated on Nihilego. This all makes sense if Nihilego is the only one they know about, which would be consistent with there being no information about the other Beasts prior to the events of the game.

You could say that they may have had rough sketches of them, but if that was the intention, then why didn't the game simply say "his papers about the Ultra Beasts" rather than "his papers about Nihilego"? They locked it into specificity when there was no inherent need to do so if they'd wanted to say something else. And why does Lusamine supposedly style herself after Pheromosa instead of Nihilego? And why Xurkitree for Guzma? Why is nobody dressed like Kartana or Buzzwole or Celesteela? Indeed, the only character who is implied to be styled after a Beast's appearance is Lillie, who is of course dressed like Nihilego - the only non-Guzzlord Ultra Beast that is stated to have been known about in advance. Coincidence?

Although this suggests the clothing choices (aside from Lillie's) don't mean anything, it is, of course possible that there is no meaning (conscious or unconscious) with them, but it's a rather dull explanation. It's likely that is some reason behind them, even if the reason is mundane and unexciting. It should at leas indicate something about Lusamine's (and to a greater extent, that of the Aether foundation in general) psyche.

But again, at some point doesn't it become excessive? We keep implicating her in all these elaborate conspiracies which are completely unsuggested by the games themselves - eventually it just looks like we're making things up and slapping them onto her for the sheer sake of it.

I mean, why stop there? Colress appears in Alola and he's sciencey. So maybe he used to/still does work for the Foundation, and Lusamine was secretly using him to control Team Plasma! She had a set of DNA Splicers, so why not? For that matter, she also had a Prison Bottle - maybe it was her who used Hoopa's power to drop all those Legendary Pokémon on the Hoenn region, as a "test run" to see what would happen if she breached the dimensions! She had Soul Dew, too - maybe she had Brendan/May assassinated and took it from them! Oh look, we even get some of that overly-grimdark Fridge Horror that the fandom loves so much...

The games don't actively contradict any of what I just said, so it's all plausible, despite being deliberately absurd. But given the obvious lack of endorsement for these ideas by the games themselves, we can say with some relative certainty that they aren't accurate interpretations of what the story is saying.

Because Guzma actually appears with, and is loyal, to Lusamine, and we don't see a proper reason as the why he is; a relationship shown to be close, yet unhealthy, with little explanation of the relationship and how it came about.
With the others, they are of-course absurd, as you say. Although it was actually speculated that Colress was a member of the Aether Foundation, at one point, although it's very likely that there was nothing malicious about Colress's intent if he is a member, or that Colress had met Lusamine and that Lusamine had been treating Colress badly.
Even if the explanation is nothing crazy or exciting I think I would still like an explanation behind all those legendary Pokemon in ORAS.

 

[Esserise]

Although this suggests the clothing choices (aside from Lillie's) don't mean anything, it is, of course possible that there is no meaning (conscious or unconscious) with them, but it's a rather dull explanation. It's likely that is some reason behind them, even if the reason is mundane and unexciting. It should at leas indicate something about Lusamine's (and to a greater extent, that of the Aether foundation in general) psyche.

If I had to guess, I'd say it may just be an attempt to add a degree of Uncanny Valley to the UBs. These are meant to be bizarre, alien creatures, so it might be thought of as somewhat unnnerving if they evolved to look like distorted, insectoid/robotic/oragami/extension cord-esque humanoids.

Because Guzma actually appears with, and is loyal, to Lusamine, and we don't see a proper reason as the why he is; a relationship shown to be close, yet unhealthy, with little explanation of the relationship and how it came about.

All that's really said is that Guzma listens to her because she recognizes that he's strong. It's true that we don't know the circumstances of how they met, but it doesn't necessarily need to be anything elaborate - Lusamine found herself needing a lackey, and Guzma had a deep-seated sore spot that she could exploit. All she really had to do was butter him up and say, "Oh Guzma, you're so strong!" and he'd be at her beck and call.

Even if the explanation is nothing crazy or exciting I think I would still like an explanation behind all those legendary Pokemon in ORAS.

It's generally thought that Hoopa dropped them there just for kicks, basically. It's a mischievous Pokémon.

 

[Ghostsoul]

If I had to guess, I'd say it may just be an attempt to add a degree of Uncanny Valley to the UBs. These are meant to be bizarre, alien creatures, so it might be thought of as somewhat unnnerving if they evolved to look like distorted, insectoid/robotic/oragami/extension cord-esque humanoids.

That's a pretty nice idea actually.

All that's really said is that Guzma listens to her because she recognizes that he's strong. It's true that we don't know the circumstances of how they met, but it doesn't necessarily need to be anything elaborate - Lusamine found herself needing a lackey, and Guzma had a deep-seated sore spot that she could exploit. All she really had to do was butter him up and say, "Oh Guzma, you're so strong!" and he'd be at her beck and call.

I'll go back to my original point, which was the idea that Lusamine had influenced Guzma's fashion sense in one way or another. It is neither confirmed nor denied by the story. It's not too absurd to think about, and a lot of the rest of Team Skull may have followed Guzma. That being said, it's an interesting but somewhat unlikely idea.

 

[godiego]

it's unlikely that Lusamine modeled herself and Guzma off of Ultra Beasts. aside from the fact that the game says that only Nihilego and Guzzlord were seen in the past, Lusamine doesn't actually look like Phermosa in a controllable fashion. consider Lillie and Nihilego: their resemblance comes from Lillie's hat and hair matching up with Nihilego. where do Lusamine and Phermosa line up? well, aside from their palettes, they're both pretty and they both have legs. do they have similar hair? aside from being long, no. do they have similar silhouettes? no. Lusamine couldn't have made herself look like Phermosa because she couldn't have made herself prettier nor given herself longer legs. Guzma and Xurkitree have no real resemblance given that the big red flag between them, the "hair," don't even match up given that Guzma's hair is more of a poof and Xurkitree's is a polyhedron (since you know, it's a strand of lights). Guzma doesn't even thematically relate to Xurkitree.

only Lillie has a real chance of being POSSIBLY made to resemble an Ultra Beast. the rest are stretched coincidences that people need to move on from.

 

[Karamazov]

Lusamine doesn't actually look like Phermosa in a controllable fashion. where do Lusamine and Phermosa line up? well, aside from their palettes, they're both pretty and they both have legs. do they have similar hair? aside from being long, no. do they have similar silhouettes? no. Lusamine couldn't have made herself look like Phermosa because she couldn't have made herself prettier nor given herself longer legs.

only Lillie has a real chance of being POSSIBLY made to resemble an Ultra Beast. the rest are stretched coincidences that people need to move on from.

While I agree that the similarities may be coincidences, and don't make sense in-universe, there are quite a few visual similarities with Lusamine and Pheromosa: their poses in official artwork mirror each other; Pheromosa's feet look like heels (which Lusamine has); they both have prominent white and yellow/gold in their designs; Lusamine's outfit shows off her long legs/makes them look long; and Pheromosa's "crown" reminds me of Lusamine's bangs, which also look like they're covering part of her eyes. There are a few more I could mention, but those are the most obvious ones.

She could have done more to actively look like Pheromosa (like making her heels match Pheromosa's completely), but there's definitely a resemblance. And I'm convinced that this was intentional on Game Freak's part, if only just to create a red herring for fans who follow pre-release info. It's a coincidence and a stretch in-universe, but very intentional, meta-wise.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

the "resemblance" between Gladion and Buzzwole is entirely coincidental.

I see no resemblence between Gladion and Buzzwole at all. Buzzwole looks more like Kukui if anything.

I don't think the Lusamine/Pheromosa resemblance means anything, in-universe at least.

It makes no sense to assume that it has no meaning in-universe. Designers don't go about doing their job without thinking about what exactly goes into their work. Every little detail counts. It is no coincidence that they look alike. As such, I believe that the fact that Pheromosa looks like Lusamine even though Lusamine has no idea what Pheromosa tells us something very important about the Ultra Beasts. Sure an assumption can be made that Lusamine dressed Lillie up to look like Nihilego but given the Lusamine/Pheromosa similarity, I believe that it is more likely that Nihilego is mimicking Lillie and that we can potentially see new characters that look like the Ultra Beasts in USUM.

I keep envisioning Gladion dressed like Lillie and it's a...bizarre image.

Exactly. I don't think Lusamine being as fashion conscious as she is would dress Gladion in something as unconventional like a jellyfish girl.

 

[Guzma]

I always got the feeling Guzma became unable to recognize the strength of others because of his childhood. His mother never believed he became a hardened criminal, so he might have been a nice kid until being abused by his father (presumably for being a "disappointment," judging by how he could never get anything better than a silver trophy) pushed him too far to the point he fought back and ran off. Him being unable to recognize the strength of others might be because his own father never recognized his own accomplishments, giving him an inferiority complex that caused him to become unable to recognize anyone else's accomplishments.

 

[Esserise]

(presumably for being a "disappointment," judging by how he could never get anything better than a silver trophy)

The dad explains his reasoning as intending to discipline Guzma for running off without telling his parents, and at least from the way it sounded to me, it didn't seem like a regular occurrence so much as one ill-judged response to that particular transgression. On top of that, the dad says that he himself was the one who ended up getting beat, so we don't even necessarily know if he landed any strikes on Guzma.

> Daddy-O: It's good for kids to experience their own journeys, but running away without even word to your parents is another thing entirely. I tried to set that boy of mine straight, but when I did, I was the one who got beat...

I kind of interpreted it as a dark lampshade of how the games always encourage you to go back and let your mom know you're leaving before you start off on your travels.

 

[Guzma]

The dad explains his reasoning as intending to discipline Guzma for running off without telling his parents, and at least from the way it sounded to me, it didn't seem like a regular occurrence so much as one ill-judged response to that particular transgression. On top of that, the dad says that he himself was the one who ended up getting beat, so we don't even necessarily know if he landed any strikes on Guzma.

The game strongly implies Guzma possibly suffered some sort of abuse. Could be physical, could be emotional. A big sign is how he always yells "GUZMA?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!" when he loses; I kind of take it as something that he heard preeeeetty often as a kid to the point he's internalized it as part of his inferiority/superiority complex. His obsession with proving how "tough" and "strong he is, his high levels of aggression and his need to have some sort of approval even if it means being dependent on a horrible person like Lusamine (and even if she wasn't always a horrible person, she certainly was by the time Guzma ran into her) are common symptoms of abuse, as well.

Also, his lines like "beating people down is all I know" and "beating people down and never letting up" also imply that he's experienced violence in some form (whether he inflicted it or it was inflicted on him) throughout much of his life. Given that he probably wouldn't have stood a chance against an abusive parent when he was a little kid unless he was freakishly huge (and he is pretty tall, admittedly), it's much more likely that he was on the receiving end of violence for much of his early life before he was strong enough to fight back.

Finally, Nihilego venom not only releases the inhibitions of its victims and increases their aggression, it exacerbates their natural qualities. With Lusamine, this amplified her desire for control to the point she went insane. With Guzma, it made him fearful. Although Guzma tries to make people think he's "not scared of nothin' or nobody," something in his past had to make him fearful to the point that the venom affected that emotion specifically to the point it somehow won out over his high levels of aggression. Fear was probably a big part of his life at some point, and few things are more terrifying than having someone who should care for and protect you instead harm you.

The game also implies his mother was a genuinely loving and good parent to the point that he either never had it in him to tell her he'd become a hardened criminal, or else that he was a genuinely nice kid to the point she was unable to believe what she heard about him. Also, after disbanding Team Skull and realizing Lusamine never really cared about him, he was probably at his lowest point, so who does he come back to? His mom, who he realizes may be the only person in his life (aside from probably Hala, given it's implied he tried to mentor Guzma when he was younger and he does so again and, judging by Guzma's nicer attitude in the Battle Tree, is having much more success) who ever genuinely cared for him. Basically, he wanted to apologize to her for running off after realizing she was the only person he felt he could really trust.

TL;DR: Guzma displays a lot of the telltale signs of being abused in some form, and other aspects of the game besides his personality hint at such a thing happening. Whether it's emotional, mental, physical or some combination of the three and whether it was a recurring thing or a one-time thing is up in the air.

 

[King Robert]

Lillie's mother is a whackadoodle. That's all I can say.