Times where you thought the Antagonist was right.

[Blue1225]

What? Pokémon aren't items, they're living creatures... so what if they're "his" ? So if someone has a dog and he's abusing it, you'll say it's ok because it's his dog?...
Paul was obviously wrong and thanks to Ash he changed by the end of DP (as proved by him starting to thank his Pokémon after battles and his respect for Ash and Infernape)

Paul took the time to catch his pokemon and train them. Its established in the series that different trainers train their pokemon differently. What right did Ash have to decide that Paul's way was wrong?

 

[The Puppetmaster]

Paul took the time to catch his pokemon and train them. Its established in the series that different trainers train their pokemon differently. What right did Ash have to decide that Paul's way was wrong?

To be fair, Ash mainly chastised Paul for his treatment of Chimchar, which was arguably abusive. If I witnessed somebody making their child rigorously practice hours on end at some type of sport, I'd be concerned for that child's well-being. Paul was pushing Chimchar past its limits, making it take hit after hit from his other Pokémon when it clearly needed rest.

 

[Owain]

Paul took the time to catch his pokemon and train them. Its established in the series that different trainers train their pokemon differently. What right did Ash have to decide that Paul's way was wrong?

Paul was downright abusive, its different, Pokémon have feelings, they're living creatures and they deserve to be treated with the same respect as Human Beings, they're not possessions whose rights and feelings can be ignored.

 

[CommanderPigg]

To be fair, Ash mainly chastised Paul for his treatment of Chimchar, which was arguably abusive. If I witnessed somebody making their child rigorously practice hours on end at some type of sport, I'd be concerned for that child's well-being. Paul was pushing Chimchar past its limits, making it take hit after hit from his other Pokémon when it clearly needed rest.

I agree with this. In my opinion, Paul cares about his pokemon, he just isn't very expressive about it. In DP 100, he hired groomers (Team Rocket) to trim torterra'a leaves and the rest of his pokemon are just chillin'. In DP 188, his pokemon cheered for him after they found out he'll get stronger. And Electavire is far from being abused...look how willing he is under Paul's command.

The reason why I think Paul was so hard on Chimchar was it simply couldn't work with Paul's training methods. And unlike his other "failures," Paul didn't want to give up on Chimmy so easily.

Paul's training methods and Ash's training methods remind me of the old "strict Eastern parenting" vs. "lenient Western parenting." Check this article out. The Chinese woman forces her child to practice the piano non-stop, without breaking for the bathroom or food. Does this seem abusive? Of course. But do you have the right to tell her that her methods are wrong when the child feels accomplished in the end? Who knows...

The example might be a bit extreme ^^;

I will admit that in the beginning, when Paul rejected the ideas of friendship and believing, I thought "what are you doing in Pokemon, GET OUT." But as the series progressed, I think that even though he had different methods, they were still relatively equally matched (with the exception of Infernape, who thrived with Ash's techniques). So yeah...I agreed with Paul in the end...you do what you need to to get strong...Or, I suppose "tough love, or tough shit"

I'm glad the writers didn't completely support Ash on the whole morality battle like expected...

EDIT:

Spoiler

Paul makes me tl;dr ;_;

 

[Hellion]

No. She obviously cares enough about the kids that she won't give them whatever they want. Just because a child wants something really badly, it doesn't mean it's always best for him or her.

Therefore, I think Yuri should have never given in...

I totally agree. The kids will have fun with Yabukuron, but they won't have any responsabilities towards it. The person who's gonna have to feed it, clean the mess it makes and care for it, is Yuri. She's also the ones the parents trust to take care of their kids, ensuring their safety and education. She's an adult who, unlike the kids, can actually project herself in the future, past the initial fun, and see the consequences. She's the only one even qualified to make that decision.

This episode apparantly tells kids that if they disagree with an adult's decision, it's okay to attack people, run away and be disrespectfufl of authority to make your point heard. That episode's aesop was beyond broken.

 

[Iteru]

I watched the Yabukuron episode again today, and that kid Hirota wouldn't actually get to safety just because the Yabukuron wouldn't move.

If it has the potential to sway those children into not avoiding dangerous situations, then it clearly is a liability.

 

[Arysd]

"Gary was here! Ash is a loser!"
That is all.

 

[manathief]

Any time Ash incorrectly assumed that since something bad was happening, it OBVIOUSLY must be Team Rocket's fault, regardless of evidence or lack thereof.

 

[Yamato-san]

I'll be quoting what I said about Shinji in another thread.

While he did go a little crazy with trying to bring about Hikozaru's true strength (which he witnessed for himself shortly before catching the thing, and it's not as if Hikozaru itself wasn't interested in becoming stronger either, as even in-canon, it's highly implied that Pokemon, as competitive animals by nature, enjoy being toughened up by humans, even if it takes some borderline abusive tactics to do so; just look at Akira's Sand way back in the beginning of the series), we do see over the course of the series that he is respectful of his Pokemon, and in his final episode, clearly acknowledges Goukazaru's strength. It may be hard to notice through his constantly cold and serious demeanor, but he does show respect to his Pokemon all the same. Then there's the whole "he releases his Pokemon" deal. A lot of people have already defended this with "it's better they get released in the wild than rot in a box", but I'll do one better: it's not like Trainers are expected to befriend the Pokemon at the time of capture to begin with. Sure, Satoshi's had plenty of Pokemon willingly join him after he helped them out, but there are tons of Pokemon Satoshi just caught on a whim (like pretty much every bird he's owned up to this point), and even some he caught simply because he "wanted to own one" (Hinoarashi, Tsutarja), never actually forming a "bond" with them until well after the fact. How's this supposed to make him better than Shinji? This isn't like Dragon Quest games where, after a battle, a wild monster can suddenly get up again, take a liking to your character, and ask to join your party. This is fucking Pokemon, where you beat critters into submission before trying to contain them in what amounts to a spherical CAGE. So would anyone explain to me how targeting the stronger specimens is any worse than targeting any animal to forcefully join your party in the first place? I also like how these same people fail to bring up Shinji's Mariruri (which was rather generously given to a kid who wanted it), or the fact that Shinji's had plenty of other Pokemon (strong in the first place though they may be) lose a battle without him suddenly deeming them useless and tossing them aside. He may be a hardass, but he's far from denying when he's simply lacking as a Pokemon's Trainer.

Given, nobody in-show seemed to mind too much that Shinji was releasing Pokemon (I might not remember too well, but I recall that Satoshi didn't bat an eye when Shinji released his newly-caught Odoshishi that only knew Tackle... he may've gotten pissed when Shinji released his Mukkuru immediately after battle, but I'm sure that was for entirely different reasons), but it's still worth pointing out since the fandom's constantly calling him out for it.

Also, Harley. Sure, he may've used some sly trickery, but it's not as if he was in direct violation of any rules (if he was, the judges would've called him out for it when he played that recording of Masato), and if anything, the only ones really at fault are those who fall for it (especially when this happens for the THIRD TIME IN A ROW). Besides which, even in spite of his tactics, he's shown time and again to be a very competent Coordinator (he'd have to be to get into the Grand Festival, of course). Considering it was his third appearance, and Haruka wasn't especially in need of a victory since it was only her first contest for the region, not to mention the fact that she's using a complete n00b of a Pokemon, they REALLY screwed him out of that Ariados vs. Zenigame battle. At least they made up for it with Octan vs. Gonbe, but still. The writers shouldn't have treated him like some bad guy in constant need of getting schooled. At least with Urara losing all those times, I'd let it slide since the writers introduced her too damn late and were apparently trying to rush the remainder of Hikari's quest (but then again, the DP writers also had no problems inserting a Contest into just anywhere, so Urara could've gotten at least one win to herself).

 

[The Puppetmaster]

Also, Harley. Sure, he may've used some sly trickery, but it's not as if he was in direct violation of any rules (if he was, the judges would've called him out for it when he played that recording of Masato)

I agree with what you're saying about Harley not being that bad of a guy, but I don't think the judges knew he was behind this scheme. Even if it was in line with the rules, I still think it's low (but you're right in saying May should have learned from his previous trickery).

 

[Afrojisiac-19]

Brock was right in his lecturing of Dawn, and to a lesser extent Ash when Pachirisu got sick, that they need to be calm and careful when knowing what to do to take care of a sick pokemon.

 

[Hellion]

you're right in saying May should have learned from his previous trickery.

This. Especially at the Hoenn Grand Festival when May was spamming Assist, acting upon Harley's advice. Harley's reaction was spot on, while May's was just... Urgh... she made a speech about how she now got what appeals were... she was in the second round of appeals at the Grand Freaking Festival...

- Harley, "Oh please cry me a river. It's your own fault anyway May. Never trust anybody." I remember why I like Harley so much. He's not afraid to call the writers and May on their BS.

- May gets what appeals are... now? NOW? NOOOOOOOOW? She's in the grand festival and she only now gets it? HOW DID YOU EVEN MAKE IT THIS FAR?

Deceit and Assit as an episode frustrated me to no end, because this was the Grand Festival, May had been in 7 contests and looked like she had acquired no knowledge of contests. Quite frankly, I thought Harley was absolutely right to call her out on her lack of knowledge.

Brock

...is not an antagonist.