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Trainers and rivals in Scarlet and Violet

henrymidfields

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As for rivals, I wouldn't mind if there was a somewhat comedic rival that combines the friendly and jerkass. Maybe s/he's happy to help you out with the evil team, or some non-Pokemon related drama, and is a good friend at heart, but s/he's also incredibly competitive, cocky, and banter-loving when (and only when for added comedy) it comes to Pokemon battles, and is unwilling to settle for less. Basically like Groose from Zelda Skyward or Blue from the original game but nicer. Or like how Vaike banters at Chrom in their support conversations in Fire Emblem Awakening. Oh wait...does Barry kind of fit that??

Oh and make a couple of the battles unwinnable just to show how serious s/he is.
 

Dizzard

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Oh and make a couple of the battles unwinnable just to show how serious s/he is.

I mean, they could just make the rival battles actually difficult.....and not require you to beat them to continue the story.

That's what happens in TemTem, if you don't win the rival battles the story just continues anyway.
 

There Is No Arceus

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I can't speak for anyone else but nothing makes me lose the ability to take an enemy seriously faster than scripted defeats where I know I'd win if I were in control.
doesn't have to be scripted. they can make it essentially unwinnable by just making the opponent way too strong. they did this in Mystery Dungeon: explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky a few times.
 

Daren

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I mean, they could just make the rival battles actually difficult.....and not require you to beat them to continue the story.

That's what happens in TemTem, if you don't win the rival battles the story just continues anyway.
Right, if my rival only has four Pokémon halfway through the game but randomly beats me in cutscenes it doesn't show me they're serious, only that the devs can't make them challenging and resort to "cheats" to make them seem like I should respect them.

Plenty of games have the player lose at times but you need to do it cleverly to avoid it feeling like the writer just cheated to get the outcome they wanted.

doesn't have to be scripted. they can make it essentially unwinnable by just making the opponent way too strong. they did this in Mystery Dungeon: explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky a few times.
Yeah, but that's usually how it's done with someone you're going to fight again much later on, not someone you fight often enough to count as a Pokémon rival (and they said "several" so either we're winning in-between scripted losses and the rival's level shoots around bizarrely or it's a cutscene defeat that you can't take seriously because you easily beat them when you're actually in control or they're beating you constantly all game in cutscenes, which makes them obnoxious, not a good rival).
 

Stef50S

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In my opinion, there's no need to make the rival character an asshole or overly arrogant as long as they are competitive. Cheren is already an example of a rival who is competitive but is still friendly with you because he's your childhood friend. Friendly rivals also make a lot more sense in context because if you and your friend both start a pokemon journey together they would still treat you like your friend and support you rather than act cold or aggressive.

Apparently there are certain battles with Hau where you don't need to win to progress the story. I'm not sure if it applies to Hop as well but it makes sense for the story to continue as normal if your rival won.
 

Daren

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In my opinion, there's no need to make the rival character an asshole or overly arrogant as long as they are competitive. Cheren is already an example of a rival who is competitive but is still friendly with you because he's your childhood friend. Friendly rivals also make a lot more sense in context because if you and your friend both start a pokemon journey together they would still treat you like your friend and support you rather than act cold or aggressive.

Apparently there are certain battles with Hau where you don't need to win to progress the story. I'm not sure if it applies to Hop as well but it makes sense for the story to continue as normal if your rival won.
As I recall the first two battles with Blue could be lost and still continue the game, and in Yellow it determined what he evolved Eevee into (if you beat him both times he picked Jolteon, which always amused me).
 

Articfoxgamez

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I think the way they are doing it right now works fine, as in one primary friendly rival and a secondary not-so friendly rival.
Also when are we going to get a female primary rival (excluding games where the gender you don't pick is your rival)
By primary rival I mean the main one, Gary Silver Barry Hau Hop and the opposite genders when they are in (usually), so Marnie and Shauna don't count.
 

henrymidfields

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Apparently there are certain battles with Hau where you don't need to win to progress the story. I'm not sure if it applies to Hop as well but it makes sense for the story to continue as normal if your rival won.
Didn't know that. So maybe just have them at a higher level than what's expected for the game with progressively better movepools then, and make a win in those cases optional, then?
 

Stef50S

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Didn't know that. So maybe just have them at a higher level than what's expected for the game with progressively better movepools then, and make a win in those cases optional, then?
I don't know how many instances actually exist throughout all the games. I just remembering hearing in a youtube video that you can lose certain Hau battles and still continue the story as normal. As for your suggestion, the rival should always have higher levels and more Pokemon than the average trainers you're fighting at that point in the game. I'm sure that's the case for most if not all rival battles in every game but that would have to be verified.
 

Articfoxgamez

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I don't know how many instances actually exist throughout all the games. I just remembering hearing in a youtube video that you can lose certain Hau battles and still continue the story as normal. As for your suggestion, the rival should always have higher levels and more Pokemon than the average trainers you're fighting at that point in the game. I'm sure that's the case for most if not all rival battles in every game but that would have to be verified.
From what I remember usually the rival's levels are on par with the upcoming route or upcoming gym (depending if you fight them at the start of a route/between routes or right before a town)
 

Stef50S

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From what I remember usually the rival's levels are on par with the upcoming route or upcoming gym (depending if you fight them at the start of a route/between routes or right before a town)
That makes a lot of sense since the rival should be stronger than the trainers you just fought as well as prepared for the upcoming area and/or boss fight.
 

blitzle stan

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Yeah, one time Hau defeated me pretty bad with his Alolan Raichu when we got to the third island. I was surprised that the game let me lose, has dialogue for that happening, and continued the story. It was cool.
 

Impy

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Yeah, one time Hau defeated me pretty bad with his Alolan Raichu when we got to the third island. I was surprised that the game let me lose, has dialogue for that happening, and continued the story. It was cool.
people really like to complain about how easy the newer games are but the alola games had their tough moments
i do think losing to rivals as an option and continuing with the story would be a cool feature to have return, and although it would never happen i would love if it affected the story even slightly
 

Dorothy

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i do think losing to rivals as an option and continuing with the story would be a cool feature to have return, and although it would never happen i would love if it affected the story even slightly
I think it would be fairly easy to implement that your win/loss ratio with your rival would affect how their character develops - maybe if they lose a lot, they resign themselves to playing second fiddle and become more of a friendly rival, and if they win a lot they get arrogant and become more of a jerk. It'd be a win-win for those who prefer either style of rival.
 

Kallyle

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I think it would be fairly easy to implement that your win/loss ratio with your rival would affect how their character develops - maybe if they lose a lot, they resign themselves to playing second fiddle and become more of a friendly rival, and if they win a lot they get arrogant and become more of a jerk. It'd be a win-win for those who prefer either style of rival.
Another interesting idea would the opposite. What if your friendship turns sour after losing to you a lot? I mean, I’m pretty sure quite a few kids could relate.
 

PinkIceFox

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The kids can relate. I chuckle coldly and can't wait for whichever authority figure the rival respects most to give them a verbal smack on the head. Lil brat gonna throw a tantrum I'm gonna get the popcorn.

And then the lands will drown in the slap slap kiss fanfictions that will flood down from the mountaintops of tumblr and AO3.

"No friend with me, am angy." lol k bye see you next tail kicking."
 

Dorothy

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Another interesting idea would the opposite. What if your friendship turns sour after losing to you a lot? I mean, I’m pretty sure quite a few kids could relate.
But then winning a lot makes them... friendlier? Doesn't make as much sense.
 

Esiouqrut

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As some have said, they can simply randomly spawn trainers.

But I think the trainers don't necessarily have to scale with anything? Like if you're very unlucky (or lucky, depending on how you see it), you can meet a trainer with 6 fully-evolved lv.99 Pokémon in your first area. This way the world would seem more dynamic and trainer encounters will be more interesting, and maybe more frustrating.

Of course there have to be something to balance it. So I was thinking of a spawn system for trainers which mainly includes of level range and number of Pokémon. Trainers that spawn will have a higher chance to be in your level range and have as many Pokémon as you do. So encountering an extremely over/under-leveled trainer will be like encountering a shiny Pokémon.

This is a very early concept that I just thought, so I'm sure it has flaw here and there. But IMO something like that would be exciting and might keep things fresh longer than just simply assign random Poké and movepool. :wynaut:

This only apply to generic random trainers, of course. Story-based trainers like rivals will be tied to story progression.
 

Kallyle

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But then winning a lot makes them... friendlier? Doesn't make as much sense.
It's more like they start out as friendly, but they become less friendly the more you end up beating them. They might get cocky if they win, but they don't turn into a jerk because of it.
 
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