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Mafia: TWR Games Bonanza - Endgame: Mafia win - Epilogue Complete

♡ mk. vier ♡
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Then what would have been your reads at the time then? Most of the other players were inactive mode up until then.
You know what, that's fair. There's nothing inherently scummy about "null" in those circumstances, and I think I was thinking about it in a vacuum rather than in the context of D1 and the content we had to work with.

Pikochu's defense so far actually feels fairly solid, like, I don't really see anything that's a big contradiction that scum might make in trying to save their self and he's not responding to pressure in a way that strikes me as scummy. Most notably, the way he hasn't backed down over the vig comment he made; I feel like mafia might start backpedaling a bit on that since it was the major point of suspicion for so many people. Starting to have some doubts over the wagon, honestly.

UNVOTE: Pikochu

I'm still waiting for some responses from others to help try to decide what else to do, but for the record I do think Pika_pika's post about MegaPod is pretty good because he has been sliding along, coasting on wagons so far when I have definitely seen him play more actively and analytically (and less sheepy) as town in other games. He or jdthebud I'm kinda looking at as alternatives here if Pikochu's defense keeps holding up, and I want to hear more from him.

VOTE: MegaPod
 
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Ok so I'm back.
I think that if Piko flips Town we should maybe go for Lone, not liking his tone.
If scum, I think Pika is worth looking at
 
Sith Puppy
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Ok so I'm back.
I think that if Piko flips Town we should maybe go for Lone, not liking his tone.
If scum, I think Pika is worth looking at
do you think the wagon on piko is justified? How so?
 
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Ok so this first part is just me scrambling some notes regarding this whole endeavour with piko starting D2.

Vote: Pikochu

Reads feel fake. And it seems like he’s not paying full attention to the thread. The vig comment is super scummy, and also he’s acting like he’s done something when he hasn’t been a forerunner in doing stuff. I’m not getting town feels at all.
The first to vote piko. Doesn't only address the vig part though. Would mido try to bus this early after some hints that a wagon might form on piko?

Overall ExLight seems to be more focused on the Contrainer side of this but does use it to analyse the current situation.

FA has solid posts that I'm town reading right now. Definitely seems to throw in more effort than mafia would need.
tl;dr: Pikochu and Officer Snake are my current scum reads, and I'd really like to hear more from both of them (and jdthebud, though I don't find him as suspicious as the other two right now).

VOTE: Pikochu
2nd vote. @Midorikawa FA gave her adjusted thoughts on this a few posts earlier, about the null reads and stuff. What are your thoughts on that since FA shared your thoughts initially.

Also, I'm not completelysure on it at the moment but I had this feeling earlier in D2 that mido and FA are definitely the same team. Just a gut feeling though.

Someone made a comment about pika, I think Lone, saying that if Piko is town that they would be town as well as mafia wouldn't do such a thing. I definitely agree and I think that if piko does turn out to be scum that pika is still town and, just like me, would have been completely fooled. scum!pika wouldn't defend that hard either way. It also seems that pika and I share similar thoughts, coming initially both sides, as in, we both make comments that the other can agree with and relate to. Town read here as well.

Already in my previous post but @Contrainer you need to share more thoughts on this, there is enough content by now.
Vote: Pikochu

Not only is the Vigging the Bomb suggestion a little sketchy since there’s possible Mafia motivation behind it, but it’s pretty much ofca stretch from him to suggest that Zinn meant to coax out the Bomb claim in the first place with his joking remark. Especially since he starts his so-called analysis of Zinn by saying he rubs off as Town, but concludes that he’s a slight scum read. I don’t really buy it.
Third vote, which, after Mido and FA of all people start making a wagon is a good moment to hop on. Assuming both of them are town. Mainly focuses on the bomb part but also brings up the analysis. Let me bring up piko's response to this.
Zinn: Zinn is a wild card for me. For some reason, Zinn rubs off to me as town but there's something about Zinn that makes me think Zinn is perhaps scum too. I think it has to do with bringing up the bomb subject on Day 1 which somehow led to an actual claim of a bomb. I'm leaning slight scum.
Not the response but the original comment MP is referring to. Piko claims Zinn is a wildcard, both town and scum and concludes it as a slight scum lean, he doesn't really first make him town and then scum like MP suggests imo. It's like "it feels town but this thing makes him scum, gut says town but action says scum".
The reason why I thought Zinn is slightly scum because something was off. Zinn was joking about the bomb thing which sadly became a point of contention. I mean the fact that we are having this conversation if this was a joke is quite concerning and feel as it was meant to be a distraction.
Here is piko's response. Joking about a bomb or jester or something similar like that isn't uncommon, especially D1 but I see where piko is coming from.
:bulbaFacepalm:
Vote: Pikochu

obligatory FoS: Mido
4th vote directly after the 3rd. Although very bare bones, I agree that going for contrainer isnt the right action at the moment and that his newishness could play a role. But wouldn't hold on to that for too long though, he's not that new.
Now though, I like the Pikochu case. Asking for a vig on a bomb claim is totally scummy, though it is a bit on the nose, maybe.

Vote: Pikochu
Doubtful 5th nose. Backs his vote up with a commonly used argument but then immediately backs off a bit.
What about the rest of the thread? What are your thoughts on pika pika?
Mido tries to get more out of jd here but no response so far iirc. The doubtfulness makes me doubt though, is that a scum move trying to back off a bit to play it safe with a nonsenseical comment or is it a town vote who doesn't feel confindent since town doesn't know the answer? I would like to hear thoughts from you guys on this one. Leaving it be for now.

tbh I think Piko and Darth are Mafia :v
I dont think I've seen a response yet so I'll ask again. What makes me scum and where is your vote?
Vote: Pikochu

Forgot to add my vote, I'd prefer Darth tbh but may as well jump on the wagon
Ok the post right after (which is on the next page hence why I didn't notice). 6th vote, still no explanation for me.
Zinn doesn't back up any reasoning for the vote, so @ZinnLav would you kindly?

Also I've seen people claim thinking zinn is town, why is that cause I don't see it.
Vote: Pikochu

Piko bad. Everyone's said it and said why by this point so I'd just be parroting if I harped on about that too long. Though I will say that I don't really see a jokey tone to his "Yo, vig Contrainer" comment.
Oof, 7th vote. This is basically sheeping. It sounds like Lone though, he's done this before but I can't remember when or how often to make it AI. @Lone_Garurumon can you give me a reads list and thoughts on the wagon so far? Also phrase the key points of why you think piko is the best vote to go for
Pikochu : Midorikawa, FinalArcadia, Megapod, Contrainer, jdthebud, ZinnLav, Lone_Garurumon
Not voting: Exlight, Darthwolf, Pika_pika42, Officer Snake, Pikochu
Midday break but I'm pretty sure no new votes got added onto piko specifically.
Lone is very late but it would go against my own policy if he didnt join as town either even though he suspects him. Enough has been said about the wagon at his point of voting so I need to see more of him first.
Mido and FA are fine, leaving Contrainer out of this for now and jd I want to hear your thoughts on.

This leaves zinn and MegaPod at the moment.

Zinn prefers me over piko yet goes for piko. Lacks reason for vote
MP has a reason and although not the greatest is certainly better than Zinn atm
@MegaPod @ZinnLav some reads from both of you would be nice.

Vote: ZinnLav

Yeah. The readlist is just bad.
Could you point out some specifics from his list and give me your thoughts on those. Can you also give your reads list? You havent said much yet.
 
you're gonna have a bad time.
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  1. @Midorikawa - seems towny but idk why they're alive

  2. @Lone_Garurumon - slight scumlean, seems cwac
  3. @MegaPod null
  4. @ZinnLav null
  5. @Officer Snake townlean for meta
  6. @Pika_pika42 scummy if piko is scum

  7. @DarthWolf town for being leader I guess
  8. @jdthebud townlean I think
  9. @FinalArcadia reads towny, haven't seen their scumgame tho
  10. @Pikochu scum for aforementioned reasons
  11. @ExLight is he alive?
Look here
Sorry if this pinged yall
 
I'm your little bug pal
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which is adorable
Yes I am.
Now though, I like the Pikochu case. Asking for a vig on a bomb claim is totally scummy, though it is a bit on the nose, maybe.
Is that the only thing you find scummy about Piko?
I told Calvin the same thing though, there is no reason not to vote someone if you suspect them. You joining the wagon makes it easier for scum, yet it turned big pretty quickly so the only reason to avoid it is if you're scum.
Not necessarily. There are plenty of wagons town won’t join just because there is no point. In fact keeping the wagon smaller allows us to actually be able to look at it in case of a mislynch. Though with a large wagon it doesn’t make anyone more or less scummy in case of a mislynch since it’s just too large.
Just a guess, since it was N1 and mostly N1 kills are random unless they go for a power player like you, for example.
The fact that you claimed Miller gives you an even stronger Town read, which could act as a bigger threat for Mafia. Even if you are not a huge threat role wise, you could still be perceived as a threat skill-wise.
But I’m not a threat in 1 day. No one is. And with roles that we can’t even guess floating out there, it still comes off as a weird guess. The wording sounds way too sure.
meant since he had a null read on Calvin and he said that Calvin was saying recycled stuff, etc., it would have been easier for Pikochu to start a lynch against him rather than killing him.
Also, I never said he would build a case against a Town read, I said that if Pikochu were scum, it would be logical for him to kill someone from his Town reads or someone who was being overall read as Town by everyone rather than killing a null read.
Why not? Killing a null read would make him look like a mistaken townie. Killing a town looking person is the easy way out and an obvious scum move.
Feels like Pikochu was annoyed with Contrainer's claim and just wanted him gone, which feels like he was just ranting off his frustration and joked about a Vig shooting him rather than actually seriously suggesting it. At least, that's how I read it
Annoyed? So what? Mafia can’t be annoyed by a bomb claim?
This might look like defending but I am not understanding the actual case against Pikochu and just stating my views on it.
  1. Piko made a scummy comment
  2. Piko made a bs reads list
  3. Piko lies and tried to make himself look town leader type when he’s done nothing.
Or... Mido is scum
Mido is always scum.
wouldn't call it a joke but I certainly agree with you here in some aspect. It seems very emotion driven and not the most serious of comments. @Pikochu do you still agree with your own statement? Why (not)?
Can mafia not make emotional posts? What makes it a townie post if it’s written by emotion?
tbh I think Piko and Darth are Mafia :v
Why darth?
Vote: Pikochu

Forgot to add my vote, I'd prefer Darth tbh but may as well jump on the wagon
WHY DARTH!?
Vote: Pikochu

Piko bad. Everyone's said it and said why by this point so I'd just be parroting if I harped on about that too long. Though I will say that I don't really see a jokey tone to his "Yo, vig Contrainer" comment.

What's a somewhat better thing I could talk about is Pika. This is some hardcore defence of Piko going on right here, and, imo, I can't see Scum!Pika doing it, especially not this far into things. I feel like, if Piko was scum, Pika wouldn't go this hard to avoid being implicated as his bud, and if Piko was town, well, why not just take the lynch? He started the defence back when it was still very feasible to get the wagon to move.
Scum!Pika just doesn't feel likely imo.
Do you think Pikochu could be town then and Pika Pika mafia?
For the record, I still more or less standby what I said about the bomb. Yes, it was poor judgment to say that vig should do that. That being said, the fact that the bomb claim is just near impossible to test without serious consequences just annoyed me. In hindsight, and I shouldn't have suggested that publicly this early in the game but I said it. Personally, I don't care if it makes me look scummy, I'm more or less standing by my comments that vig should kill Contrainer, or at least have someone investigate for sure Contrainer is what the claim is.
Despite us pointing out why a big test would be bad, you still stand by it? Yeah that makes it even more scummier now.
s to my read being fake, why in the world would I post a reads list if there isn't quite a reason too. It draws more attention and subjects myself to ridicule. Posting a reads list forces me to take a stance and while it's a disagreement, the fact about the stances I take, at least it's something to work off of and perhaps to get the conversation going. At the time, the conversation wasn't really going anywhere.
Read lists aren’t bad, but yours served as nothing and felt fake. And considering it was night phase, it wasn’t an issue that convo was lagging a bit.
meant as in: If Piko was Town, why would Pika go to the trouble of defending you, and not simply take the lynch and get rid of a townie with no resistance?
I apologise if it was done poorly.
Using full usernames helps sometimes lol.

Though Pika could easily be defending to look more townie if Piko flips town. The Pika could still be mafia.
really hate how we're all treating him as some kind of untouchable 100% trustable claim, s
We’re not. He’s just not a priority. We can afford to wait for more info first before doing something reckless.
Ok, think about it like this. You are a Scum member, and you see a Townie on the chopping block. Do you:
A) Play along and take the easy lynch to advance your own gamestate, or:
B) Stick your neck out for the Townie, putting yourself in the spotlight and potentially dragging votes towards you as you defend such a scummy looking player?
I'm sure that most scum will choose option A. This is largely my basis for the Town read on Pika.
Depends on the townie and their actions. That is very situational. It’s not always A. It’s “what will work best for me?”
 
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You're alive on D2
......so what? Me dying N1 has never been common until recently. And didn’t happen in Star Trek. I’m miller I’m a waste of a nightkill currently.
Ok so I'm back.
I think that if Piko flips Town we should maybe go for Lone, not liking his tone.
If scum, I think Pika is worth looking at
Why? Please elaborate.
Yeah. The readlist is just bad.
Is that your only reason?
The first to vote piko. Doesn't only address the vig part though. Would mido try to bus this early after some hints that a wagon might form on piko?
If I was mafia, maybe.
2nd vote. @Midorikawa FA gave her adjusted thoughts on this a few posts earlier, about the null reads and stuff. What are your thoughts on that since FA shared your thoughts initially.
So I didn’t care about him having null reads. It was what he said in them and the way they felt. I could care less about what he thinks each persons alignment is on N1
Also, I'm not completelysure on it at the moment but I had this feeling earlier in D2 that mido and FA are definitely the same team. Just a gut feeling though.
If we’re both mafia there will be bussing of eachother.

Now then Becaise at least Piko is providing more than vague random posts.

Vote: Zinnlav
 
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So unfinished post because phone sucks.

At this moment I think Darth is town. Zinn has only given vague responses and its Easy to fakeclaim vanilla as long as you make sure your game has it. Zinn hasn’t provided anything but chaos.
 
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Look here
Sorry if this pinged yall
oh wow unquotable readlist
thanks obama

and what the fuck do you mean by "is he alive?" ? And if you think Midori is Town why did you "Obligatory FoS" her?
 
Merry Chrysalis
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@MegaPod @ZinnLav some reads from both of you would be nice.
Hmm, reads ya say? Well I'll probably need some time to go over the thread again and solidify my reads, but here's a few that stand out to me:
Darth, I think you seem pretty Towny with your arguments and pushing for answers to try and solve the game. Mido too, and her Miller claim before everyone was even around makes her especially trustworthy. I agree that Zinn isn't looking too good right now, especially with the unexplained insinuation that you're Mafia. And as it's been pointed out, Pika's points in favor of Piko aren't incredibly strong, and he's worth further scrutiny if Piko flips Mafia.
 
I'm your little bug pal
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oh wow unquotable readlist
thanks obama

and what the fuck do you mean by "is he alive?" ? And if you think Midori is Town why did you "Obligatory FoS" her?
Apparently me being alive past N1 is too strange for me to be town, so I have a highly likely chance of being mafia.

Which is horrible logic and for the record this logic did exist once on BMG. It was wrong and just resulted badly when used.

Also breath light breath. I know it can be frustrating sometimes, but take a deep breath. I might be misconstruing your posts due to cursing but you seem somewhat frustrated.
 
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Ok, first things first, I'm a Survivor, I'm gonna make it, I will Survive, keep on Survivin'. I'm not entirely sure why I chose now to claim this, just that my gut says do it now. I figured townsiding would be the best path to victory, and thus, just basically plating like Town would.

Townies usually don't sit around in silence when they're about to get mislynched.
Ok, so, I can't deny that I said the other two, but where did I say this?
@Lone_Garurumon can you give me a reads list and thoughts on the wagon so far? Also phrase the key points of why you think piko is the best vote to go for
Key points:
  • Repeatedly advocates vigging a bomb claim. Even if it might not be true, I don't like the insistence on running a potential -2 vig shot.
  • Reads list has several nulls, I will concede that the people he did it against were mostly absent though, so it's somewhat understandable
  • A comment in his reads list hypes himself up as one of the 2 biggest driving forces for Town, despite being not that, as though making himself out to be more of an asset than he is.
I can't get you a full list right now, but theoretically before phase end I'll be able to get one.
Do you think Pikochu could be town then and Pika Pika mafia?
I mean, it's certainly not impossible, but I don't find it likely, especially not from Pika.
 
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Ok, so, I can't deny that I said the other two, but where did I say this?
Good Mornin' x)
Oof, sorry, I think I misinterpreted this:
and if Piko was town, well, why not just take the lynch?
If I did I think Piko understood it wrongly as well, because I feel like my interpretation was heavily influenced by how he reacted. Going back to check it I see now that you clarified it for him and I missed it somehow.
 
you're gonna have a bad time.
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sorry quote isn't working on my computer
ex said:
oh wow unquotable readlist
thanks obama

and what the fuck do you mean by "is he alive?" ? And if you think Midori is Town why did you "Obligatory FoS" her?
ok yeah im probably being stupid about mido

for some reason i thought you were dead
anyway now i remember ur a townlean i guess

damn i wish i could shorten "thought" to "thot"
 
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