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Mafia U-Choose Mafia II [ENDGAME]

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I’m not going to worry about defending myself anymore. I think it might be Minish/Zexy, Minish is pretty much CC’ing me and Zexy just feels off. His role with so many active town makes little sense to be town and (a bit more reachy), this is exactly how I won the game as scum. Claiming he was my top town read and then just completely flipping on him is the same as he is doing this game.

I’m willing to believe the Ex modifier, Nagito seems more likely to have a drawback than a politoed. The 30% chance is more possible to me than having that many town roles being completely voided by Zexy.
 
Roles I know are in the game

1x Reloader
1x Double Voter (that may get a random Rolecop)
2x nerfed Watcher
Roleblocker (25% Loud)
Rolestopper (no same person twice in a row)
Independent

Roles claimed idk about (2 are fake)

2x Doctor
1x Bus Driver (30% redirect action on self to user)
1x Tracker (with permanent Memory Seer)
Bodyguard

I would rather believe there are 3 roles that cannot benefit from Reloader, instead of 4

.
Also if Bodyguard and 2x Doctor are both scum, my theory of 9 non faction specific roles being randed alignments makes sense too

My vote on Jamie is staying. I will need to consider Minish more, too. She claimed last, something that did not and cannot ever again interact with someone. So yeah I will stick to my initial towny gut feelings on both Zinn/Ex for now.

Not to mention if Jamie flips scum I can rolestop Zinn while he sees if Minish acts, and unlike Ex there is no 30% chance for this to self-show yes.
 
Every single other game I have played with Jamie, he was not in much danger of lynch and survived to all the endgames, except the early Gladiator d1 where he tried similar tricks too on me, trying to make me feel bad for even considering him. This time a claim cannot save him so he is going about it differently while also maybe hoping to shade me again.
 
If Jamie is town, he unfortunately misplayed way too hard for this to be too hard to salvage even in final 3 if we decide to spare him today and lynch right.

If Jamie is scum, so many possibilities for rereads to open up and hopefully find the other ones.

All 3 non-Jamie team scenarios feel way tinfoilier than the 3 Jamie ones. Ex/Minish is the next best one I have, but I do not believe town Zinn is willing to vote considering that yet, and town Ex also probably does not consider Zinn/Minish much either. Zinn/Ex is the most insane, Jamie/Minish/I agreeing on anything is nearly never going to happen, we are just screwed then.
 
I don't think roles would be predetermined and randed separately if that's what you're saying Zexy. Cause the roles match the characters too well. Unless you mean the roles were created for characters and then alignment randed separately after that. Which could be the case. But I dunno because like mafia with a doctor would be weird in a setup without like a vig. I guess unless it's counter to a town rolecop but still.
 
Yeah roles fit characters, I said alignments may be randed, and I said that to convince Zinn/Ex it could mean exactly Jamie/Minish scum team.
But we can only really consider that after a Jamie flip, if his role is something like Rolecop it holds. If it is, say, ninja (only useful for nightkill) or even better strongman (confirming a doc exists) Minish is near cleared. Earlier on I was even hoping to see Godfather flip on Claire, but apparently Cop was never a thing this game.
 
writing a bit wall of text rn
seeing some people are talking about alignments possibly being randed separately

View attachment 174020

aight so here's the list of roles from the first U-choose game
gonna go back to sleep but after I wake up gonna comment on the current claims a bit
I posted this one from the previous U-choose game
If we assume it's similar to this game it's p clear that alignment isn't randed separately from roles (miller, alignment cop, doctor) despite having some weird curveballs like Town with Ninja modifier and Town Roleblocker
 
I'm sorry I don't know if I can finish this big ass post today i spent a handful of hours on it but i'm tired and I feel like some of my thoughts are getting scrambled :sadsola:
 
ExLight - Me. Town. :swirlix: I don't have mechanical info to back me up here (if anything Zinn's actually makes me look fairly bad because of this dumb modifier I thought was supposed to be good :sadsola: ), but I've been trying pretty hard to contribute to the game with significant vote wagon analysis and coordinating stuff to optimize role usage and I hope people are able to realize that.

Zinn - I have been liking this slot for a while now, as they seemed to be trying to scumhunt D1, pointing out Dawning and Raven's theory being fairly nonsensical and trying to push town into more productive discussions was definitely a highlight. Overall been a bit slow but it's very likely due to timezone issues. The soft was a bit lukewarm as it came way after my message, but it's still a soft and those are always important in scenarios like the current one. I also find extremely unlikely for scum Zinn comes in with a seemingly contradictory result on me and then acknowledge that my modifier might've messed up the result because that would've been a very easy push. Mechanically speaking the role seems fairly Townie (I don't think scum would have something as weak as motion detector all things considered).

Minish - I always have a hard time reading her slot and saw some red flags early on when she threw some shade at me because she can usually read my slot better than most people. Overall the slot has been extremely NAI and I wish she had been giving more indicators of the stuff I see as usual Town!Minish like vote analysis and ISOs, but iirc she mentioned being sick and iirc she usually just lays back a bit when those happen. I guess it could've also been because she was a power role? Judging by her targets I feel like she hasn't even been keeping up with the thread because at one point we did mention that a Doctor protecting Zexy would've been a better coordination (or even targeting Jamie, but I guess it would've been useless with Zexy rolestopping him). Her readlists make sense, but her votes are fairly meh since they didn't seem impactful in any way and the Claire one felt a bit like distancing from the responsibility of the mislynch. Would've preferred to get this slot lynched D1 than in a -Lo situation. Mechanically speaking the role is extremely Townie and if we go by the balance of the first game I guess it would make sense.

Zexy - Main reason I was clearing this slot before was because I thought I had seen a townslip when they seemed to no be aware of roles being notified on whether or not they had failed, which is admittedly a risky reason as I am proof that sometimes people just don't read stuff and it causes some weird gamebreaking interactions ( :sadsola: :sadsola: :sadsola: ). Significant drop from my reads after the sudden 180º, because once again the slot just started throwing shade at literally everyone at a crucial moment like. Mechanically speaking Rolestopper is often a scum related role, which right now is seeming like scum's answer to tracker+motion detector/roleblocker or even to counter doctor (by making someone unblockable) - there's also a few things involving possible teams with him I'll mention down below. vv
(since I'm splitting the posts I'll post the comments regarding teams and votes a bit later)


Jamie - A lot of major red flags. The coordination fiasco from N1 could've damaged us significantly (and might've depending on what scum has), I still don't understand what the point of it was, like, why would Zexy even have to hop out of this slot? In the end it'd just make you vulnerable and waste his role; idk, felt like a play to confuse Town more than scum. I already mentioned a handful of things that didn't make sense for me in a previous catch up so I'm not gonna repeat them. Again, this was followed by the weird fact Jamie knew Claire was Roleblocker, which can only be mechanically viable in two ways: either by rolecopping or by being notified through her modifier - both scenarios only possible for scum (I'm assuming rolecop would be scum in this situation since noone claimed it). The somewhat defeatist attitude feels a bit like scum that got caught and knows they're gonna get lynched so shuts down a bit to minimize significant interactions. Mechanically Bodyguard is meh (again, I've claimed it a couple times in the past as scum because I know it's somewhat safe and buys time) but it was definitely worth a shot in having him try to self-solve. Overall this is easily the worse slot imo.
 
I know I put myself in an unnecessarily bad place, all I hope for now is that Jamie's flip and role will help us reread better, and understand the setup, which can make or break Minish's claim, also me rolestopping Zinn while he motion detects Minish and thus all town (whoever they are) entirely ignore the % stuff of Ex is too good of a play to pass up, some of it all will have to give us info (even a Zinn death can give us meta-info).

If Jamie is somehow town, all 3 town would have misplayed hard, nothing I can do about it :(

While I like Ex reads in theory (except the one on me of course), I feel like PoE and Raven wagon makes him scummy. Zinn feels townier, Minish can be provable if Jamie flips a role that implies protection exists or if Zinn survives and motion detects her doing nothing (unlikely).
 
So we still need to find an explanation as to why my role failed, and so far I can think of two: either scum roleblocked me or, if Zexy is telling the truth about being rolestopper, he targeted someone (either himself or Minish).

If my action was disrupted by a rolestopper, that would imply a Zexy scum scenario, as he could've used it on scum to make sure the kill got through + to prevent investigative roles onto them. I think Jamie targeted Zexy N2 and it went through though? So two possibilities: Jamie is lying or Zexy actually targeted Minish. So that would either mean a Jamie/Zexy team or a Zexy/Minish team.

But in the scenario where Zexy is Town: an infinite roleblocker seems a bit less likely considering we only had one person reporting getting roleblocked last Day, and we know that was because Claire's role. Even if someone had holstered and got blocked, they'd've been notified like in the case with DawningWinds. There COULD be something like a scum JOAT with a roleblocker shot, and they decided to use it now.

=======

Final Day One Votals:

toastghost: II (RavenRaziel98, ZinnLav)
DawningWinds: II (Minish, toastghost)
RavenRaziel98: III (DawningWinds, Zexy, ExLight)
Not Voting: Jamie, Claire
Final Day Two Votals:
Claire386: V (JamieIsBored, Zexy, ExLight, DawningWinds, ZinnLav)
JamieIsBored: II (Minish, Claire386)
This is horrible.

Zinn's votes were a bit of fluff, they didn't really tiebreak D1 nor did much for the lynch D2. Hmm. Actually, on D2 it did set the claire lynch as the main one, because before it someone could've tied (4-2 -> 3-3), and I feel like this might be one of the best ones since it gave information.

I think once again we fall back into Jamie looking like the worst slot, as both the absent and the leading vote.

Votewise both Zexy and Minish look a bit worse D1, on D2 I think Zexy looks a bit better because I'm not as confident about scum dogpiling this hard on a low hanging fruit? I think Minish explained that she had voted Jamie because she believed his role was conflicting with her Doctor role, which makes sense? Could be setting up the bus in this phase if she saw Jamie's slot as doomed due to the whole knowing roleblocker thing.

=====

Rolewise I feel like it has a lot of similarities with the other U-choose game, with the main difference being the lack of alignment cop interactions and priority themed stuff. We have Town Roleblocker again, Doctor, Bus Driver, Tracker/Watcher, etc. So these are more likely to be true imo.

If one of these were to be a lie I do have an idea of which of these might be a lie, but I might mention it after Night starts to avoid a commotion and spread out votes, which would make it easier for scum to tie and win if not everyone is around EoD.

=====

Overall I feel like this phase is just a huge WIFOM. Jamie is almost for sure scum here and has been discussed in the previous Day so the partner likely busses this slot regardless of who they are, so it might be more important to see who's been setting up for the next lynch.

Jamie/Zexy > Jamie/Minish > Zexy/Minish = Zinn/Minish >> Zexy/Zinn >>> others

Vote: Jamie

If we go into the next Night, depending on some stuff that might happen I feel like we can clear at least one role (I'll try mentioning it at the end of the Night to prevent scum to pick a kill around it) if they were pulling a gambit in this Phase about their number of shots.

While I like Ex reads in theory (except the one on me of course), I feel like PoE and Raven wagon makes him scummy.
I think I already addressed this?

This is WIFOM, but as scum I'd probably be more comfortable pretending I wasn't around and letting a No Lynch happen, specially after seeing how messy it could be after Gladiator Mafia. We had had barely any vote dynamics throughout that Day.

And like, you were literally throwing shade at Raven and saying you didn't want a No Lynch, so I'm not sure why me making the decision that I made (even though my reasoning for choosing it over Dawning and toast was different) would be scummy?? Is it because it was a mislynch? I literally proposed a CFD on a slot that was neither of the three leading ones, which now we know were town lol. So yea, lmfao, no.
 
So we still need to find an explanation as to why my role failed, and so far I can think of two: either scum roleblocked me or, if Zexy is telling the truth about being rolestopper, he targeted someone (either himself or Minish).

If my action was disrupted by a rolestopper, that would imply a Zexy scum scenario, as he could've used it on scum to make sure the kill got through + to prevent investigative roles onto them. I think Jamie targeted Zexy N2 and it went through though? So two possibilities: Jamie is lying or Zexy actually targeted Minish. So that would either mean a Jamie/Zexy team or a Zexy/Minish team.

But in the scenario where Zexy is Town: an infinite roleblocker seems a bit less likely considering we only had one person reporting getting roleblocked last Day, and we know that was because Claire's role. Even if someone had holstered and got blocked, they'd've been notified like in the case with DawningWinds. There COULD be something like a scum JOAT with a roleblocker shot, and they decided to use it now.

=======



This is horrible.

Zinn's votes were a bit of fluff, they didn't really tiebreak D1 nor did much for the lynch D2. Hmm. Actually, on D2 it did set the claire lynch as the main one, because before it someone could've tied (4-2 -> 3-3), and I feel like this might be one of the best ones since it gave information.

I think once again we fall back into Jamie looking like the worst slot, as both the absent and the leading vote.

Votewise both Zexy and Minish look a bit worse D1, on D2 I think Zexy looks a bit better because I'm not as confident about scum dogpiling this hard on a low hanging fruit? I think Minish explained that she had voted Jamie because she believed his role was conflicting with her Doctor role, which makes sense? Could be setting up the bus in this phase if she saw Jamie's slot as doomed due to the whole knowing roleblocker thing.

=====

Rolewise I feel like it has a lot of similarities with the other U-choose game, with the main difference being the lack of alignment cop interactions and priority themed stuff. We have Town Roleblocker again, Doctor, Bus Driver, Tracker/Watcher, etc. So these are more likely to be true imo.

If one of these were to be a lie I do have an idea of which of these might be a lie, but I might mention it after Night starts to avoid a commotion and spread out votes, which would make it easier for scum to tie and win if not everyone is around EoD.

=====

Overall I feel like this phase is just a huge WIFOM. Jamie is almost for sure scum here and has been discussed in the previous Day so the partner likely busses this slot regardless of who they are, so it might be more important to see who's been setting up for the next lynch.

Jamie/Zexy > Jamie/Minish > Zexy/Minish = Zinn/Minish >> Zexy/Zinn >>> others

Vote: Jamie

If we go into the next Night, depending on some stuff that might happen I feel like we can clear at least one role (I'll try mentioning it at the end of the Night to prevent scum to pick a kill around it) if they were pulling a gambit in this Phase about their number of shots.


I think I already addressed this?

This is WIFOM, but as scum I'd probably be more comfortable pretending I wasn't around and letting a No Lynch happen, specially after seeing how messy it could be after Gladiator Mafia. We had had barely any vote dynamics throughout that Day.

And like, you were literally throwing shade at Raven and saying you didn't want a No Lynch, so I'm not sure why me making the decision that I made (even though my reasoning for choosing it over Dawning and toast was different) would be scummy?? Is it because it was a mislynch? I literally proposed a CFD on a slot that was neither of the three leading ones, which now we know were town lol. So yea, lmfao, no.
Let me assume you are town for a moment.
I am rolestopper but did idle n1, however my role was known to scum early enough n1 (before Rolecop result) so they could use something like Role Thief on me, using my role without me? Or JOAT scum with 1x roleblocker and/or 1x rolestopper etc

I do not believe I look worse than you d1 btw, we are more or less on the same boat there.

Yeah if you feel sure enough about Jamie scum, do not cause commotion before EOD pls. Also Jamie flip may make you reconsider or double down on that theory.

Also agreed that if you believe a role is clear after flip, better say it towards EON.

Yeah that is all WIFOM. Also me wanting a flip no matter what Day 1 is NAI, the only exception being when I am the Day 1 wagon (which happens rarely). Yeah my point was that it is mislynch, but all three wagons were town, scum you had way too many options, not sure that alone makes you scummy on its own anymore. I would say scum reading you was more because of PoE and tone being off (basically not you being as aggressive as other times) etc.
 
I do not believe I look worse than you d1 btw, we are more or less on the same boat there.
Yea I didn't say that your D1 was worse than mine, I was pointing out that we both did p much the same things which is why it's weird you call it NAI when you do it and scummy when I do it??

Most variants only steal that night's shot.
but does that shot disappear or do they "clone" it?
and if the first, would the person that got stolen be notified?
 
Yea I didn't say that your D1 was worse than mine, I was pointing out that we both did p much the same things which is why it's weird you call it NAI when you do it and scummy when I do it??


but does that shot disappear or do they "clone" it?
and if the first, would the person that got stolen be notified?
It could be scummy in retrospect, in that the wagon built up easily and I know Dawning and I are town. But town you could say the same about me...

They steal it, I am not sure, gotta ask. But find a very hypothetical way to phrase it. Might be easier to do it after flip, I do not think this answer should risk changing the outcome with 20 minutes left for EOD in any way.
 
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