UK Elections

[GhostFingers]

I'm finding it really difficult to figure out who will get my vote. All I know is that my income has decreased because of this government and i want to vote against them. This is not as selfish as it sounds, because it hasn't just happened to me, it's thousands of others as well. The amount of agony i've had to endure regarding money stress in the past 3 years has crippled me. In the entire 12 months of 2013 i got no money for nine whole months. My benefits got stopped and the instability i lived with made me mentally ill (and even less able to find work that before, which is why the money got stopped). But i'm pretty sure David Cameron who spends £90 a month on haircuts can relate... not.

I didn't really mean to get personal, i didn't want to share that detail because it is painful but i think it is necessary to show just how unrepresentative this government is and how callous to those on the bottom rung it is. I needed help. I asked for help. I started getting it over a year and a half later (because the NHS is horribly underfunded and understaffed). In that time i just got punished over and over for something that was not within my control. That is how the government's policies have affected me and that is why i can't support it.

Even now, i am still receiving benefits, and half of what i get goes on rent. I'm struggling to get by. If i could afford rent, i wouldn't be claiming benefits, would i? I have much more to say but i have to go, and i think it's better if i don't throw an enormous lump of words at people.

 

[Beth Pavell]

Stories like that are the main reason I would never vote Conservative. I will always prefer to put up with an exploited, compassionate benefit system than a watertight, callous one. Then you have David Cameron and his ilk making excuses for high-flying tax dodgers who don't even need the money they're hiding from the HMRC.

I am suspicious that the Lib Dems or even Labour might follow suit with that kind of hypocrisy, which makes things difficult. At the moment I'm leaning towards the Lib Dems - their plans regarding mental health are pretty sensible, if a bit nebulous. I'm surprised and pleased that it's even a priority in their manifesto

 

[Lysson]

But people on benefits are not the only ones struggling with half their money going on rent. The stats are that 1 in 5 are below the poverty line and 1 in 5 people are not on benefits/homeless. The recession hit many people that did not choose to be poor but most politicians have never had to scamper through coat pickets in hope of finding forgotten coins to buy whatever food is available. They moan about people getting fat and that fat people should not be allowed free health care when cheap food that they can afford is the most unhealthiest. Fresh fruit (250g on average) costs far more then Cadbury's chocolate of the same weight. I could rant on about the cost of food. Everyone that isn't the upper part of the middle class and upper class are currently struggling.

That's the problem with our parties, even Labour, most have never lived on a Council estate, used a food bank, got out a loan to pay bills or have to have 2 jobs just to break even. Most were born into rich families in nice areas with a low crime rate.

 

[GhostFingers]

I remember the Lib Dems had a discussion a few years ago about the defunct letter zog. That was the best thing they could talk about?

I googled zog and it turns out it's used a bit in Scotland, as in the 'zee' sound in MacKenzie & Dalziel. That's mildly interesting.[/QUOTE]
Actually, discussing the now-defunct early-middle English letter 'yogh' (rhymes with 'loch') not 'zog' is far more interesting that discussing the Lib Dems, which kinda tells you how badly they're doing. For instance, i could tell you that it resembles the number 3 and was largely replaced by stylised Z by the printing presses in France and Italy because of the similar shapes, hence why it is now a Z in modern spelling (and why the postcode for the Shetland Isles is ZE). But i digressed.

I wouldn't be so quick to call it just yet. Don't forget that lower class people don't vote as much, even less so in recent years now the Brand-esque idea of abandoning democracy in favour of placard-waving has started to sink in.

I totally respect RB for telling it like it is: It doesn't matter, because either way, you're screwed. However, i am more opposed to the Tories than i am apathetic about the whole situation.

I thought it was the popular opinion and belief of people that they can practice their religion as long as it causes no harm. Obviously people only use this opinion in favourable circumstances.

I guess people would argue that ritual slaughter doesn't harm people, so it's nothing to complain about.

And that's exactly what is wrong with most of humanity and why animal cruelty has been allowed to go on for so long (Fox hunting only being banned in 2005 is disgusting! It should have been long before!). This is shown by the fact that the Green party is so new as people just didn't really care about the environment until now. I was reading the Lib-Dem's manifesto and was surprised but disgusted by how long it has taken for gay rights and other civil rights to happen.

Maybe in another 100 years people will respect the environment and animals before we ruin everything.

Animal cruelty is needless and in this country in this modern time we should have the right to stop it, not allow people the right to perform it. I'm all for freedom of choice, but cruelty to animals denies them the choice to live peaceful unencumbered lives (and FYI yes i am vegetarian too).

My cynical side tells me we humans will ruin everything before a respect for the environment kicks in. Only after the destruction our descendants will appreciate what will be lost.

Despite whether you think the tories are good for the working class. David Cameron announced today, he wants the Tories to become the party of the working class. Now whether you think they will ever get there is another point entirely but I think you have to acknowledge, they are at least "trying" to make inroads with this demographic

I notice that the word 'trying' has quote marks because it is just a front. I seriously doubt Mr silver-spoon-in-his-mouth-since-birth wants anything to do with the working class after this election.

I voted for the Liberal Democrats during the 2010 election but after the stunt they pulled with the coalition and tuition fees, there's no way they're ever getting my vote again.

Me too.

I thought the message of the Greens was a positive one but during the debates, I was left feeling that while they had great ideals, they just weren't realistic.

Truth or ideals? Ideals or truth?

But people on benefits are not the only ones struggling with half their money going on rent. The stats are that 1 in 5 are below the poverty line and 1 in 5 people are not on benefits/homeless.

I never meant to imply that only people on benefits were having a bad time, i was just giving an account of my own experience.

Anyway the other reason i'm having a difficult time is because i know there is a lot of support for UKIP and i just can't support it. Those policies are too extreme an many of them are just insulting. My sort-of boyfriend wants to vote UKIP and i really wish he wouldn't. (But i also understand i can't force him to do anything).

 

[Beth Pavell]

I wouldn't be so quick to call it just yet. Don't forget that lower class people don't vote as much, even less so in recent years now the Brand-esque idea of abandoning democracy in favour of placard-waving has started to sink in.

I totally respect RB for telling it like it is: It doesn't matter, because either way, you're screwed. However, i am more opposed to the Tories than i am apathetic about the whole situation.

The problem I have with him is threefold. The first is that placard-waving and "Down with the Man!" style speeches is self-indulgent, especially from a man who can essentially do it as a hobby. No doubt it feels great in a tribal sort of way to be rebelliously anti-authority while still being part of a group. The second is that he responds to criticism by shouting. And the third is that his ideas about politics ignore the one key aspect of democracy - that it only works at all if you participate.

Nigel Farage, of all people, had the right of it the other day. It is very difficult, too difficult, to set up a new political party, which is one of the major problems with our democracy. If there really is party that represents your views, you're stuck with making a protest vote out of spite. That being said, not voting only encourages the political establishment to ignore you, and if you think about it from the point of view of the candidate, you can see why. You only have a limited amount of time and resources to convince as many people to vote for you as you can. There's no point wasting time trying to cater to someone who will never vote anyway - they won't help you, but they won't hurt you by voting for your rivals either.

Ultimately, it's easy to hold a placard and wear a V mask. It's fashionable and you can shout down anyone who asks awkward questions with the rest of your supporters. It's much harder to put in the work of actually convincing people that your way is the right way

 

[Lysson]

But people on benefits are not the only ones struggling with half their money going on rent. The stats are that 1 in 5 are below the poverty line and 1 in 5 people are not on benefits/homeless.

I never meant to imply that only people on benefits were having a bad time, i was just giving an account of my own experience.

Anyway the other reason i'm having a difficult time is because i know there is a lot of support for UKIP and i just can't support it. Those policies are too extreme an many of them are just insulting. My sort-of boyfriend wants to vote UKIP and i really wish he wouldn't. (But i also understand i can't force him to do anything).

Don't worry I knew what you meant. I hope you didn't think my comment was aimed at you! Sorry if you did think that!
I agree with Beth that it is stories like yours that really are distressing that not enough is being done with welfare. I long ago gave up with bothering about welfare policies when the council where I lived refused to lower the council tax even a little for us (we didn't want them to just give us free money, we just wanted to recover) when my mum had a stroke when I was 5 and developed M.E. so I just don't trust the government and welfare. And this was under a Labour government and Labour council.

I find parties either maul the welfare system or let people extort it. I have yet to find a party that actually helps people and helps people like you.

I can totally understand about UKIP and that is can cause rifts in relationships. Maybe just try to not talk about it or ignore him when he talks about UKIP?
Some policies I like but they're too right wing for me.

 

[GhostFingers]

It's OK i mean i find it hard to talk about having a problem like mine because i don't want to come off as "give me money, i'm on benefits wah" sort of thing, especially when hearing about people like your mum who have real physical disabilities.

It's that the benefits system is not being handled properly and has been going downhill for a long time. Under Labour i was mandated to do their New deal scheme, which was a pain in the ass and ultimately failed, but it was still far better than the Tories' 'if you aren't deemed as doing enough to look for work we take all of your benefits for 3 months' scheme. I had developed bad depression and could no longer be considered 'fit for work'. It got so bad i self harmed. And all the government did was punish me by taking away my money and stability, causing my condition to get worse. My therapist thought i was unable to work, but the job centre and my doctor at the time didn't see things that way. Now as it is i still have social anxiety issues and some days find it hard to leave the flat, and always find it hard to socially interact with people.

Wow that veered off topic a little. I think i find it easier to type to a screen than talk to real people with eyes watching me, and that must have needed to come out.

As for the man in my life, i wouldn't worry too much. We both hate the Tories (sorry) and if there ever is a rift between us, it won't be caused by politics.

 

[Lysson]

It's OK i mean i find it hard to talk about having a problem like mine because i don't want to come off as "give me money, i'm on benefits wah" sort of thing, especially when hearing about people like your mum who have real physical disabilities.

It's that the benefits system is not being handled properly and has been going downhill for a long time. Under Labour i was mandated to do their New deal scheme, which was a pain in the ass and ultimately failed, but it was still far better than the Tories' 'if you aren't deemed as doing enough to look for work we take all of your benefits for 3 months' scheme. I had developed bad depression and could no longer be considered 'fit for work'. It got so bad i self harmed. And all the government did was punish me by taking away my money and stability, causing my condition to get worse. My therapist thought i was unable to work, but the job centre and my doctor at the time didn't see things that way. Now as it is i still have social anxiety issues and some days find it hard to leave the flat, and always find it hard to socially interact with people.

Naw it's ok to talk about it here if you need <3 You really are having a dreadful time... I hope the next government will improve it! We're also on topic as welfare is political.

Welfare has always been a taboo subject, probably because of the Tories' mindset. People on welfare seem to have this stigma that they are the ones who refuse to work and that is a very tiny amount. TV shows certainly don't help with this stereotype.
I completely disagree with what the Tories have done with jobseekers allowance; a tiny minority of extortionists have ruined it for everyone! I also hate bedroom tax with a passion as it is so unfair! There's so many derelict buildings that are not owned/abandoned they could build on but they don't for some reason. People in your situation are the ones being affected by this stupid jobseekers scheme and bedroom tax but the government are too oblivious to the facts. And don't feel embarrassed about what's happening with you or your situation, none of us will judge you as we have no right to and you seem pretty awesome to me.

Mental health is also something I'm passionate about and am pleased with what the lib-dems are pledging. More things need to be done and more research needs to be done. Depression, anxiety and paranoia is raising drastically and something needs to be done. School also need to educate more about mental and physical disabilities as it was only my parents that taught me about them and I only learnt about them at school when I was in secondary and I went to 4 primaries.

 

[Beth Pavell]

Everyone in power should be confronted with stories of people in hardship to keep them grounded. To make their decisions relevant. Because people who have just needed a hand up in order to work and run their life have suffered as a result of this daemonisation of benefit claimants.

An uncomfortable fact for the working but comfortable middle classes is that being out of work for a long time does not always mean that a person is lazy. Or that working part time because of their disability means that they're not trying hard enough. And that, even for the people who are genuinely lazy and selfish, living off state benefits is not a good living. I don't like benefit cheats at all - partly on the principle that it's thievery - because they lend credence to the idea of a welfare state handing comfortable lives to an indolent working class. What I cannot stand is the hypocrisy of a party that waves a damning finger at benefit cheats while making excuses for tax dodgers who cheat the country out of funds that could help thousands of people to live productive lives of their own.

 

[Lysson]

Everyone in power should be confronted with stories of people in hardship to keep them grounded. To make their decisions relevant. Because people who have just needed a hand up in order to work and run their life have suffered as a result of this daemonisation of benefit claimants.

An uncomfortable fact for the working but comfortable middle classes is that being out of work for a long time does not always mean that a person is lazy. Or that working part time because of their disability means that they're not trying hard enough. And that, even for the people who are genuinely lazy and selfish, living off state benefits is not a good living. I don't like benefit cheats at all - partly on the principle that it's thievery - because they lend credence to the idea of a welfare state handing comfortable lives to an indolent working class. What I cannot stand is the hypocrisy of a party that waves a damning finger at benefit cheats while making excuses for tax dodgers who cheat the country out of funds that could help thousands of people to live productive lives of their own.

This, all of this! I couldn't agree more! When a celebrity or insanely rich person tax avoids they usually don't have to pay back fully what they owe, which is ridiculous! It's always the poor and vulnerable that is sacrificed when something bad happens in the country!
The only people on benefits that I dislike are the ones who have loads of kids for benefits (this seems like prostitution to me) and neglect them and the ones who refuse to work because they think other people should do it for them (and these people are perfectly healthy, mentally and physically) and take benefits from those who need them. But those people are a tiny amount and the state budget doesn't spend that much on welfare as so many people believe (it's something like 23%? Not sure, but below 50% that everyone believes is how much is spent)

 

[dig]

I think I might be changing my vote

 

[GhostFingers]

There is something else i would like to say about political hypocrisy. A few months ago (and this made national news) a shop was closed down in my town for selling... wait for it - legal highs. As someone with prior experience i know that legal highs are sometimes a gateway drug, and can lead to stronger addictions down the line. However the point i would like to raise is that if a politician disagrees with something like a chemical being sold, the proper thing to do would be campaign against it, change policies and change laws around it. Not close a shop for selling something currently legal. If that shop continues to sell that thing after a ban is passed, then so be it, but not before.

The man taking credit for this decision? Prepare to be shocked.

Spoiler

A Lib Dem. Yeah, that's right. A liberal was opposed to legal highs so badly he forced a local hippie dippie shop to close.

Welfare has always been a taboo subject, probably because of the Tories' mindset. People on welfare seem to have this stigma that they are the ones who refuse to work and that is a very tiny amount. TV shows certainly don't help with this stereotype.

People like me on benefits face a huge stigma. That's why the longer one is unemployed, the more one is unemployable.

 

[dig]

Found this forecast really interesting.

SNP are set to become the third largest party, which is quite a rise from 6 seats last GE. They are predicted to get 48 seats, I think that sounds about right, if I was to play is safe I'd say 40+. Lib Dems will fall to fourth largest, with 24 seats. UKIP are expected to get one seat, which I agree with since I really don't think that they are as popular as we're supposed to believe.

Scotland looks to set to end up with an almost unanimous vote for SNP, some areas will likely vote Labour or Lib Dem, but most of the country is predicted to elect a SNP seat, my area included even with a fairly strong No vote winning. To me this means that people have grown sick of the typical Westminster bunch, believing that aren't being represented, so are instead voting for an alternative in the hopes of being better represented. If the predicted seats matched with the outcome of the referendum, we should have been seeing a stronger Labour response, or rather a stronger non-SNP response.

England is looking like a Conservative victory, but many areas could end up voting for Labour, there's quite a few spots that are harder to determine. Wales looks like the best case of equal representation in this election - their predicted seats are all over the place. Plaid, Labour, Tory, Lib Dem all seem to have equal footing. Finally NI looks set for a split vote between Sinn Fien & DUP, which isn't exactly surprising.

 

[Lysson]

What's with the uprising of nationalism? It seems to be getting out of hand, but then... Westminster did hack me off with what it did to Scotland after the referendum by going back on its word.

Personally I think we should have a federal system of some sort. A assembly/parliament doesn't seem to be very effective at the moment as none of the countries seem to have that much power over themselves.

 

[dig]

What's with the uprising of nationalism? It seems to be getting out of hand, but then... Westminster did hack me off with what it did to Scotland after the referendum by going back on its word.

Personally I think we should have a federal system of some sort. A assembly/parliament doesn't seem to be very effective at the moment as none of the countries seem to have that much power over themselves.

I guess at the end of the day the Scottish people have widely became sick and tired of Westminster/London politics and want to seem more answers for Scottish problems and more help for Scottish people.

Then again, I am bias.

 

[Beth Pavell]

Everyone living north of Oxford is sick of Westminster politics. It just so happens that Scotland has had the option of threatening to quit. Something a voter living in the vicinity of Birmingham hasn't got, I feel I should point out

 

[Lysson]

Apparently Cornwall, Yorkshire and the Isle of Wight all want independence. With everyone wanting independence I think that is saying something.

 

[Saucedo]

Apparently Cornwall, Yorkshire and the Isle of Wight all want independence. With everyone wanting independence I think that is saying something.

Where is the proof for those 3 all wanting independence??? Cornwall has a nationalist party similar to SNP and PLaid, called Mebyon Kernow, but they never win anything, apart from the occasional council seat.

As for Scotland the reason the SNP is doing well is simply because the 45 percent who voted for independence have now largely coalesced around the SNP and SNP have also always had some additional voters who don't want independence but like the SNP and how they run Holyrood.

It's interesting seeing Scottish people say that Westminster ignores them or isn't right for them, because down here, there is an entirely different view, that Westminster bends over backwards for Scotland to keep them happy at the expense of England and Wales.

 

[Beth Pavell]

It's interesting seeing Scottish people say that Westminster ignores them or isn't right for them, because down here, there is an entirely different view, that Westminster bends over backwards for Scotland to keep them happy at the expense of England and Wales.

I think there is some truth to that view in light of the years-long independence campaign. I think it's also true that Scotland does better out of being in the UK than the SNP would have people believe (I won't speak for Wales, not so sure on that count). Regardless, Westminster politics does live in a self-reinforcing London-centric bubble, and that's true of all the major parties, including Labour.

 

[Lysson]

Apparently Cornwall, Yorkshire and the Isle of Wight all want independence. With everyone wanting independence I think that is saying something.

Where is the proof for those 3 all wanting independence??? Cornwall has a nationalist party similar to SNP and PLaid, called Mebyon Kernow, but they never win anything, apart from the occasional council seat.

Yorkshire wants a parliament but not currently independence: Yorkshire First | The Party for Yorkshire
There was an article in a news paper last year listing the top 10 places that want independence, Cornwall, Isle of Wight and Yorkshire were the only ones I can remember. I remember one was some random obscure town.

This could all be linked to the current uprising of Anarchy (which is a stupid idea) and a lot of people who don't vote are Anarchists/Distrust politicians. There's only a tiny proportion that don't vote because they don't care/can't be bothered but politicians only see a no vote as someone who doesn't care.
They'll also tell you to spoil your ballot but that doesn't get points across as a spoiled ballot can include a tick instead of a cross or underlining a party and they don't specifically count ones that have been purposely spoiled.