Underwater Ruins deciphered

[Pawsrent]

Oh, I noticed two more things.
Someone mentioned the ancient crown was looking like N's crown

Thanks for noticing!

Also, I have a different theory than that Kyurem is the King (wait, King and Kyurem start with the same letter). It's that Kyurem was the husk (yes, it starts with an already posted theory) of the original dragon, and that the force of splitting caused it to soar into space, (and it found shelter inside of a meteor) then fell back to earth. The shockwave forced waves upon the Abyssal Castle, which then was completely submerged.

Do you think that the Musketeer trio could be involved somehow with the Abyssal Ruins?

The third paragraph in the texts seem to say that eating Pokémon is okay, just like the Sinnoh myths say, but the two regions are incredibly far apart! And Johto and Kanto don't justify eating Pokémon, so Unova and Sinnoh must have communicated sometime in the distant past. Speaking of which, where did N go? Didn't they say that he went to a distant region? Perhaps the region that they communicated with a long time ago.
I know this isn't the place, but you can't find the God Stone anywhere, and maybe Arceus is summoned from it. Or to bring us back to place, Kyurem, the original Dragon/King/God.

Also, today when I was playing with my Pokémon toys (yes, I still play with Pokémon toys), I noticed that Moltres and Reshiram are Fire, Zapdos and Zekrom are Electric, and Articuno and Kyurem are Ice. This is probably just a tribute to the original games, or it could have some deep Unova/Kanto connection.

 

[CallMeCubone]

Does 'Primes' remind anyone else of N? I mean, it's doubtful that these refer to N, but it's an interesting connection.

Closer back on topic, I noticed something interesting while trying my hand at decoding these. While the symbols that represent each letter DO change every floor, there's a pattern. The sun pointing down is 'B' on floor 1, and 'A' on floor 2. Likewise, C is B, D is C, so on and so forth. The same thing happens on floors 3 and 4. But why would Game Freak do that? It seems like they didn't want this to be decoded easily...

In case anyone was wondering, I play black version and (4) joined King in a day, while King defeated (3) alone.

I doubt the king is Kyurem, only because the king sounds so human in these passages. And while Pokemon may have been revered in the past, I doubt they would be referred to as "King." And we barely hear of Pokemon befriending humans (or other Pokemon)--it's normally the other way around.

Now that I'm looking at it closer, it almost seems that the king was the first one to recognize Pokemon as (sentient?) beings. You know, rather than seeing them as tools to get jobs done. "King called [fish with a hook in it] beings." I think we can agree on the fact that the fish means Pokemon; the fact it has a hook in it was probably a source of food. This is furthered by the line "Eating is receiving life." If the king thought Pokemon were like humans, I would think he would try and limit the whole Pokemon-eating bit ("All is precious," "Do not be barbaric," "One must not waste"). King also has a dream and accepts all, and fought hatred.

Now, this is wild guessing on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if we soon learn how the human/Pokemon relationship came to be. Ever so slowly, the games and anime are sending us further back in time...

 

[SirOni]

Oh, I noticed two more things.
Someone mentioned the ancient crown was looking like N's crown, and if you look at those relic statues and the appearance of N in the intro... Bingo! I do not think N is the king, but I think N stole King's concept+look, maybe without even knowing it. The statues don't have N's fluffy pretty hair either, so it's not N.

If these two crowns have a relation maybe it means that each founder brother had their own crown and one of these crowns had been lost in the Ruins. The NPC telling you to keep the crown may have done so because he knows that the crown belongs to you as if you were a descendant of that brother, though how in hell would he know about such a lineage that probably has many links missing?

 

[YWtheLucida]

If these two crowns have a relation maybe it means that each founder brother had their own crown and one of these crowns had been lost in the Ruins. The NPC telling you to keep the crown may have done so because he knows that the crown belongs to you as if you were a descendant of that brother, though how in hell would he know about such a lineage that probably has many links missing?

Well, the NPC who's buying the crown doesn't really tell you to keep it.. If you talk to him with the crown in your bag he'll exactly say:

"Actually, it's...
It's a rare treasure, Relic Crown!
I was told it was at the innermost part
of the Abyssal Ruins!
I think it is understandable that you
want to treasure it, but will you sell it
to me for P300000? Will you?"
[YES/NO]

If No;
"If you ever change your mind,
will you sell me the rare item? Will you?"

If Yes;
"I got a very good item!
Don't you think it's great? Don't you?"

I don't see him mentioned the crown is more special except that it's rare... but maybe it's as you say, probably there are more than one crown.

Since Abyssal Ruins have a strong connect with Reshiram regarding Prime numbers and truth, I did some research.
A girl in Icirrus behind the Pokémon center says;

"The legendary Pokémon Reshiram
shared its wisdom with the hero
and defied foes with columns of fire.
The hero and that Pokémon were as
close as a parent and child.
People were filled with awe and looked up
to them, and that is said to be the
beginning of what became ancient Unova."

Note that I have White, so someone with Black maybe could talk to the same NPC?
Are there any site/place yet that contain the history of Isshu detailed? I searched but evrything's just about those plain big things that evryone already knows..

...Is it on topic to discuss History of Isshu here btw? ^_^'

 

[TorchicBlaziken]

Does 'Primes' remind anyone else of N? I mean, it's doubtful that these refer to N, but it's an interesting connection.

Closer back on topic, I noticed something interesting while trying my hand at decoding these. While the symbols that represent each letter DO change every floor, there's a pattern. The sun pointing down is 'B' on floor 1, and 'A' on floor 2. Likewise, C is B, D is C, so on and so forth. The same thing happens on floors 3 and 4. But why would Game Freak do that? It seems like they didn't want this to be decoded easily...

In case anyone was wondering, I play black version and (4) joined King in a day, while King defeated (3) alone.

I doubt the king is Kyurem, only because the king sounds so human in these passages. And while Pokemon may have been revered in the past, I doubt they would be referred to as "King." And we barely hear of Pokemon befriending humans (or other Pokemon)--it's normally the other way around.

Now that I'm looking at it closer, it almost seems that the king was the first one to recognize Pokemon as (sentient?) beings. You know, rather than seeing them as tools to get jobs done. "King called [fish with a hook in it] beings." I think we can agree on the fact that the fish means Pokemon; the fact it has a hook in it was probably a source of food. This is furthered by the line "Eating is receiving life." If the king thought Pokemon were like humans, I would think he would try and limit the whole Pokemon-eating bit ("All is precious," "Do not be barbaric," "One must not waste"). King also has a dream and accepts all, and fought hatred.

Now, this is wild guessing on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if we soon learn how the human/Pokemon relationship came to be. Ever so slowly, the games and anime are sending us further back in time...

Wow, that makes more sense than anything else I've heard so far about the hooked fish.

The "Wars create tears" part would also be referring to the war that ticked off the legendary musketeers.

What is the location of the wall that says "Here we praise king?"

 

[Melaugh]

Since Abyssal Ruins have a strong connect with Reshiram regarding Prime numbers and truth, I did some research.
A girl in Icirrus behind the Pokémon center says;

"The legendary Pokémon Reshiram
shared its wisdom with the hero
and defied foes with columns of fire.
The hero and that Pokémon were as
close as a parent and child.
People were filled with awe and looked up
to them, and that is said to be the
beginning of what became ancient Unova."

Note that I have White, so someone with Black maybe could talk to the same NPC?

"The legendary Pokémon Zekrom
shared its wisdom with the hero
and defied foes with fierce lightning.
The hero and that Pokémon were as
close as parent and child.
People were filled with awe and looked up
to them, and that it said to be the
beginning of what became ancient Unova."

It did not change that much. :x

 

[Silktree]

It would be odd if the king turned out to be one of the twin heroes. It might solve the problem of Reshiram and Zekrom being separate entities, but the twin heroes are acknowledged as equals in the main plot, so why would only one of them be referenced here?

 

[YWtheLucida]

Does 'Primes' remind anyone else of N? I mean, it's doubtful that these refer to N, but it's an interesting connection.

Closer back on topic, I noticed something interesting while trying my hand at decoding these. While the symbols that represent each letter DO change every floor, there's a pattern. The sun pointing down is 'B' on floor 1, and 'A' on floor 2. Likewise, C is B, D is C, so on and so forth. The same thing happens on floors 3 and 4. But why would Game Freak do that? It seems like they didn't want this to be decoded easily...

Actually 'Primes' don't remind me of N at all, I don't see any connection between him and primes except that N has Reshiram in White.

Though I agree with you that this is hell of a code, being read backwards and changing letters, it's way more difficult than the easy unown and braille codes. I was sick at the time of release so with lots of time I tried to decode it but I failed hard.
In any case, Grey will hopefully become a great answer to the ruins..

Wow, that makes more sense than anything else I've heard so far about the hooked fish.

The "Wars create tears" part would also be referring to the war that ticked off the legendary musketeers.

What is the location of the wall that says "Here we praise king?"

If you enter the west enterance and enter the labyrinth, it's the closest one south, or the 14 if you look at the japanese page picture.
I personally don't think the 'fish symbol' means anything fish-like at all, I rather think it's the musketeers or maybe just water type pokémon.
I strongly doubt it means food and for a.. well not child game but you get what I mean, I doubt Game Freak would tell us they ate pokémon and even less that it'd be okay.

I'd rather tie the second floors sentences to Isshus legendary pokémon as someone before me already mentioned, which'd mean
"Eating is receiving life" would tie to Landlos.

"The legendary Pokémon Zekrom
shared its wisdom with the hero
and defied foes with fierce lightning.
The hero and that Pokémon were as
close as parent and child.
People were filled with awe and looked up
to them, and that it said to be the
beginning of what became ancient Unova."

It did not change that much. :x

Thanks~!

It would be odd if the king turned out to be one of the twin heroes. It might solve the problem of Reshiram and Zekrom being separate entities, but the twin heroes are acknowledged as equals in the main plot, so why would only one of them be referenced here?

Well, isn't it contradictionary that the girl NPC I mentioned says like that if they were equal and no one won?
Evrything doesn't add up perfectly and it's not completely convincing but atleast it proves that something's wrong somewhere.

I do not remember completely since I beat the main game some weeks ago, but was N's dragon also awaken from a stone? and if so, where was it? and why were your own dragon a stone to begin with?

Maybe it's actually that N's dragon's old twin hero was the king and beat the other dragon/twin hero (which you awake later on), the dragon turned into a stone and was kept by other people in the relic castle?

Maybe the twin heroes had two 'castles' each, one being the relic castle and the other one being the abyssal ruins but the eventual script from relic castle is already gone due to archeology etc? (note that there're stone plates containing script in Nacrene museum)

Quite a few people can get down to Abyssal ruins, a proof for that are all those items untouched for 3000 years, whilst Relic castle is so much easier to dig up.

Well, this sure is difficult.. xD

 

[DoctorWhy]

Going from each entrance, in order, we get exactly one actual turn away from the center green thing. What is the center green thing?

Also, where are the blue things representing items?

is there a map for the 2nd floor?

 

[CallMeCubone]

Actually 'Primes' don't remind me of N at all, I don't see any connection between him and primes except that N has Reshiram in White.

Well, N was always going on about formulas. He just seems very math-y. And prime numbers are math-y. XD That's all.

 

[Lugion]

Maybe the king was the father of the twin heroes?

 

[krystlcelebi]

You know, this has just made me decide not to sell my pokemon white. thanks.

 

[YWtheLucida]

Well, N was always going on about formulas. He just seems very math-y. And prime numbers are math-y. XD That's all.

Oh okay ^_^'

is there a map for the 2nd floor?

Well, look the very first post in this thread, then click at the japanese site link and you can see it there.

Maybe the king was the father of the twin heroes?

I don't think so, because the King defeated (probably Rehsiram/zekrom) and then the other one joined him. It's not like the father went through that..

Also, I researched some more (I've got nothing better to do LOL) and a NPC (man in suit ehh?) outside Relic Castle says:

"According to what I've heard, that
Relic Castle is the ruins of a city built
by the hero of old and the dragon
Pokémon that accompanied the hero."

..and another NPC, one of the psychics when you enter the ruins;
"It is said that long ago, these ruins
were the heart of civilization for people
and Pokémon in the Unova region."

I dare say Relic Castle and Abyssal Ruins are strongly connected..

 

[SaintDynamite]

Is it possible that the myth refers to one of the twin heroes, but version dependant? Like it refers to one of them in White, the other in Black, and in the third version it will "combine" the stories. Like with Dialga/Palkia and Kyogre/Groudon before?

 

[Cyber Jet]

I find it strange that the text is about "King" and the first track in Pokémon Black & White Super Music Collection is called "The Day I Became King (王になった日)" do you think that the title may be hinting at the text from the ruins and "King" or is unrealted to this?

 

[Amarillo]

When you try to sell the Relic Crown to the collector, he tells you that you might want to keep it because it could be important. What purpose will it serve in Gray?

 

[Falconwing]

he doesn't try to talk you out of it. He just says he'll understand if you keep it.

 

[Amarillo]

he doesn't try to talk you out of it. He just says he'll understand if you keep it.

Still, the fact that he says that there might be some importance to what seems to be mere vendor trash suggests that it'll have at least some significance in the third version.

 

[Silktree]

Is it possible that the myth refers to one of the twin heroes, but version dependant? Like it refers to one of them in White, the other in Black, and in the third version it will "combine" the stories. Like with Dialga/Palkia and Kyogre/Groudon before?

The stories were already combined in Black and White. While various NPCs only refer to one hero and one dragon in the early parts of the game, by the end Iris, Drayden and eventually N clarify that there were two of each. Reshiram and Zekrom already co-exist perfectly in either version.

The twin heroes are depicted as equals in the story: "The twin heroes, too, could not find either to be right in their struggle... So the struggle was ended..." Neither side was able to defeat the other, unlike the king who was told to have defeated what would appear to be one of the dragons.

I dare say Relic Castle and Abyssal Ruins are strongly connected..

I'd say that's a rash conclusion. It is akin to saying that the Ruins of Alph and Ecruteak City have to be connected due to both being referenced in the context of Johto's past. Such a connection may exist, but let's just say that none of the Johto games truly gave that impression, barring Crystal's single reference to the bond between Suicune and Unown.

As a matter of fact, the valuable items in the Abyssal Ruins are described as having been made about 3,000 years ago, whereas the Relic Castle was only said to be built over 2,500 years ago. While the wording technically makes it possible that these places were built by the same civilization, chances are that Game Freak chose those numbers carefully, which is to say the events really were 500 years apart.

At any rate, the Relic Castle isn't really that important to the story, considering that the second stone ended up not being there. Far more relevant is the Dragonspiral Tower, which Cedric Juniper described as the oldest structure in the Unova region, as well as the place where the legendary Pokémon was born. It is fair to say that Juniper was inaccurate, though, because he later turned out not to know as much as Drayden and Iris did, and they made it clear that the Reshiram and Zekrom were split from a single dragon (possibly in the Dragonspiral Tower, but they didn't reference it). Still, where was that dragon born? Does the Dragonspiral Tower predate the Abyssal Ruins? I rather doubt it.

The way I see it, the king could not have been either one of the twins. If he lived before them, then Reshiram and Zekrom were in fact separate even before the twin heroes came along, complicating the dragons' history by a great deal. With nothing else in the games to support this theory, a simpler explanation may be in order.

I find it strange that the text is about "King" and the first track in Pokémon Black & White Super Music Collection is called "The Day I Became King (王になった日)" do you think that the title may be hinting at the text from the ruins and "King" or is unrealted to this?

I'm now inclined to believe that the king is none other than Hilbert (not Hilda for obvious reasons), and that the Abyssal Ruins tell of a prophecy rather than a past event. I dismissed that theory a few months back on grounds of the player needing Reshiram/Zekrom to defeat Zekrom/Reshiram, unlike the king who defeated it alone. But perhaps "alone" means something deeper than the king taking on the dragon by himself... It wouldn't do if an omnipotent king reigned over Pokémon, would it?

The idea that the player character is now a "King" rather than a "Champion" seems bizarre at first, but obviously someone at Game Freak found the term appealing. I think that the ambiguity might be explained by the fact Hilbert was faced with the prospect of being apart from his Pokémon, and he really was alone in his determination to face N. After all, he did go to N's castle without knowing how the second dragon would be revived, so even though the dragon was awake by the time the battle started, an argument could be made that Hilbert was essentially on his own for a while; if N had not been so honorable, he could have forced Hilbert to part with his Pokémon back in the Dragonspiral Tower.

But the real message of the ruins might simply be that the Pokémon in Unova will be treated differently after all that has happened, and that N's words will not have gone lost on Hilbert.

Still, the fact that he says that there might be some importance to what seems to be mere vendor trash suggests that it'll have at least some significance in the third version.

The collector wants the Relic Crown (which is hardly vendor trash by any stretch of the imagination) for himself just like with all the other valuable-looking items. While the Relic Crown is the only item he makes a special comment on ("It is understandable that you want to treasure it,"), he quickly goes on to assert that that it should be sold nonetheless ("but you will sell it to me for 300000? Will you?"). If this is Game Freak's way of making us realize that the item will unlock something in the future, it is so roundabout that hardly anyone is going to heed that advice.

Even if the Relic Stone were used in the third version, why would we need to have one from Black and White? Another one would be available in that game.

 

[The Outrage]

As a matter of fact, the valuable items in the Abyssal Ruins are described as having been made about 3,000 years ago, whereas the Relic Castle was only said to be built over 2,500 years ago.

I was under the impression that the civilization died out 2,500 years ago