United States Politics

[Kung Fu Ferret]

Bernie Sanders if the only legitimate candidate I actually want to win. I honestly think all of the others (particularly Hillary, Jeb, Governor Christie, and the infamous Donald Trump), are not that good.


The only other candidate I support is my fellow anarchist, Vermin Supreme, and he runs as a joke.

If Sanders isn't in the final election in November next year, I guess I'll have to write in Vermin Supreme.

 

[Persephone]

Setting aside the parliament v. bicamarel/presidential system for now...

Same sex marriage could go away in theory, but in practice it's basically set in stone. Now, that doesn't stop Republicans from screwing over LGBTQ people to get Evangelical votes in other ways. For instance, trans* rights in terms of insurance mandates, medical practices, legal gender and even name changes, bathroom rights, etc. are still very contentious and typically decided by state governments, most of which are dominated by Republicans now. While the orientations have it a bit easier because of the Supreme Court and much greater public approcal/visibility, employment and service discrimination is still legal in most of America due to state Republicans and won't end due to federal action unless national Republicans relent.

Now, Title VII arguments may make all of this (except for a few transgender and intersex issues) irrelevant due to further court rulings in the long term. But for now, there are a lot of things Republican presidents or Congressional action could do.

Also a hypothetical President Mike Huckabee could fire ever openly gay person hired by the federal government and, as I understand it, that would be completely legal. But Huckabee's basically the closest thing America has to a prominent openly theocratic politician, so he's an outlier. Still waiting to hear Trump's take on all of this.

 

[Jolene]

The reason the Republicans are pro-gun is because they can't shoot themselves in the foot if guns are banned.

 

[----]

As a Democrat I'm supporting Sanders, not really that big of a fan of anyone else at this point. Like many others around here it seems, his reasoning and views are the most similar to mine.

 

[Jolene]

My main problem with Bernie Sanders is where he plans to get the money for all the generous social programs he wants. Otherwise I admire his consistency. I much prefer his authenticity than Clinton's arrogance. Biden seems inoffensive and I wouldn't mind him being President.

Trump is still my first choice though. For kicks.

 

[DerMißingno]

Trump 2016

think of how great The Daily Show would be

 

[The Infidel]

Trump is winning me over more and more.

We're suffering a huge influx of illegal migrants in Europe, and it makes me see Trump's point more and more clearly. Though at least America doesn't have ISIS on its doorstep trying to sneak their way in. Our politicians are caving faster than a stack of cards, and letting more and more in, not legally, just saying, ok we wont turn you away, like Obama did.

In Europe at least immigration is rapidly becoming the number 1 issue, if America has anything near the same, I'd expect Trump to continue rising.

Huckabee is a moron imo. Someone clearly hasn't read the bit about the seperation of church and state, and he should be careful, if he thinks its ok to impose his religion on others, what happens when someone gets the same powers and tries to impose their religion on him?

 

[Persephone]

Huckabee's aware of what that would be like. His wing of the Evangelical Right has been screaming about encroaching Sharia law for years. They even got a few states to expressly ban Sharia law.

 

[The Infidel]

Huckabee's aware of what that would be like. His wing of the Evangelical Right has been screaming about encroaching Sharia law for years. They even got a few states to expressly ban Sharia law.

Can you list them as Shariah encroaches further and further in the UK and Europe I'm really looking for somewhere I will be safe from it.

Therein lies ny predicament, I want to escape to the US and get away from it all but then a lot of the candidates who oppose Shariah also want to make it harder for me to escape Shariah. Like omg it's so hard for someone like me to get to the US

 

[PurplePidgeot]

Trump 2016

think of how great The Daily Show would be

And then our country would possibly be screwed through all of the stuff that Trump will do. Especially with putting a wall on the Mexican border doesn't seem right for our country, just because he thinks that all Hispanics are insane criminals.

 

[The Infidel]

Trump 2016

think of how great The Daily Show would be

And then our country would possibly be screwed through all of the stuff that Trump will do. Especially with putting a wall on the Mexican border doesn't seem right for our country, just because he thinks that all Hispanics are insane criminals.

There's many daft ideas about that wall, such as how he's going to get Mexico to pay for it. But just curious what do you mean buy "it doesn't seem right for our country"

 

[PurplePidgeot]

Trump 2016

think of how great The Daily Show would be

And then our country would possibly be screwed through all of the stuff that Trump will do. Especially with putting a wall on the Mexican border doesn't seem right for our country, just because he thinks that all Hispanics are insane criminals.

There's many daft ideas about that wall, such as how he's going to get Mexico to pay for it. But just curious what do you mean buy "it doesn't seem right for our country"

I meant that it's just offensive for Mexicans that want to have an opportunity in America, which is sad because now they probably need to go through more stricter security and nonsense papers, in order to become an American citizen when Trump is elected.

 

[Shinobu]

We're suffering a huge influx of illegal migrants in Europe, and it makes me see Trump's point more and more clearly. Though at least America doesn't have ISIS on its doorstep trying to sneak their way in. Our politicians are caving faster than a stack of cards, and letting more and more in, not legally, just saying, ok we wont turn you away, like Obama did.

There's a few differences between what's happening in Europe and illegal immigration in America. European nations have experienced illegal immigration for quite some time, but America experiences a completely different level of illegal immigration. Likewise, the US-Mexico spans the distance from Spain to Moscow, so it's impossible to completely enforce border control due to size and geographic issues. Many illegal immigrants where taken to America when they were very young and are monolingual English speakers. It's hard for them to get jobs and they can't get financial aid from public universities (or most private ones, for that matter).

Also if you're caught trying to illegally immigrate, you'll be turned away. Obama made an executive order that would give short-term visas to parents of American citizens and residents, along with protecting children who were brought into America illegally from deportation. It's currently in the midst of a legal challenge, so it hasn't been implemented.

 

[Persephone]

To clarify: Huckabee's sharia-phobia is blatant fear-mongering designed to earn votes by exploiting societal fears about a small faction of the population. It's not based in any credible fear of sharia law overwhelming America.

To start with, while Huckabee more or less doesn't acknowledge it, the Establishment clause in the Constitution already prohibits it so further bans do nothing. Beyond that there is not a state in America where Muslims make up more than 3% of the population, there are less than three million Muslims total in America (a country with greater than 300,000,000 residents), and most of the places that banned it have some of the smallest rate of Muslim citizens in America.

In the US, it is a blatant attempt to earn the votes of uneducated , white, Christians on the fear that the Muslims-a small and already perhaps unconstitutionally monitored group-are coming for their guns, Bibles, and freedoms. Sharia bans are a deplorable tactic designed to earn votes by sewing hate and anger towards a marginalized group.

It's just made more ironic when Huckabee openly wants to do the Christian equivalent and actually has a chance of pulling it off.

 

[The Infidel]

To clarify: Huckabee's sharia-phobia is blatant fear-mongering designed to earn votes by exploiting societal fears about a small faction of the population. It's not based in any credible fear of sharia law overwhelming America.

To start with, while Huckabee more or less doesn't acknowledge it, the Establishment clause in the Constitution already prohibits it so further bans do nothing. Beyond that there is not a state in America where Muslims make up more than 3% of the population, there are less than three million Muslims total in America (a country with greater than 300,000,000 residents), and most of the places that banned it have some of the smallest rate of Muslim citizens in America.

In the US, it is a blatant attempt to earn the votes of uneducated , white, Christians on the fear that the Muslims-a small and already perhaps unconstitutionally monitored group-are coming for their guns, Bibles, and freedoms. Sharia bans are a deplorable tactic designed to earn votes by sewing hate and anger towards a marginalized group.

It's just made more ironic when Huckabee openly wants to do the Christian equivalent and actually has a chance of pulling it off.

No it's not fear mongering.

You need to nip it in the bud. Europe took this laissez faire attitude towards shariah and now it's starting to dominate pockets of Europe. There are parts of the UK France and Sweden where the residents have declared it a shariah zone. The police don't dare tread there for fear of attack, and harsh shariah law is meted out on the streets by self declared shariah patrols.

The USA needs to learn from the mistakes Europe has made not repeat them. Sharia sneaks up on you and you don't realise until it's too late.

Ironically it's the left that facilitate its rise even though it diametrically opposes everything the left stands for. It oppresses women, it kills LGBT in the most barbaric ways, it endorses slavery it doesn't believe in freedom of speech or democracy, it does not respect minorities you either conform or die.

Please don't be naive as to see its rise in the rest of the world and think somehow the US will be immune.

Edit : Phobia implies an irrational fear. I'm sorry but as a non religious member of the LGBT community I don't think being afraid of the rise in sharia law and sharia courts is irrational

 

[ocelotlrama jaguar]

No it's not fear mongering.

Coming from people like Trump and Huckabee, no, I have to agree that it is fear-mongering, not to mention scapegoating. Then they'll sugarcoat their statements with "I'm not a racist, but..." People like the Duggars and the Quiverfull movement (which is incredibly harmful, both mentally and physically, to women and girls)? A-OK! Huckabee had no problems defending them, despite the child molestation accusations. Those Muslims and their Sharia are something we need to be afraid of! Despite being like, what? Less than 1% of the population?

 

[The Infidel]

No it's not fear mongering.

Coming from people like Trump and Huckabee, no, I have to agree that it is fear-mongering, not to mention scapegoating. Then they'll sugarcoat their statements with "I'm not a racist, but..." People like the Duggars and the Quiverfull movement (which is incredibly harmful, both mentally and physically, to women and girls)? A-OK! Huckabee had no problems defending them, despite the child molestation accusations. Those Muslims and their Sharia are something we need to be afraid of! Despite being like, what? Less than 1% of the population?

Don't try and conflate the two!

even some Muslims are afraid of Shariah. Shariah is spreading across parts of Europe it's beyond naive to think the spread of the ideology will stop at the Atlantic.

This shouldn't even be a left and right issue. The left is supposed to be the side of tolerance but is increasingly defending an ideology which is intolerant. Everything the left has fought for and won is under threat due to the spread of shariah.

This is not some sort of debate there aren't different views on Sharia. It's very clear cut. Lgbt are to be killed as are apostates (this includes Muslims who don't agree with shariah and explains why the majority of Isis victims are Muslims themselves). To oppose Sharia is not the same as opposing muslims.

What is the world becoming when the right wing parties are becoming more concerned with protecting gay rights and women's rights than the left wing? America hasn't got to this stage yet but it's on its way , Europe is not that far ahead maybe about 10 years

 

[Shinobu]

Huckabee is a moron imo. Someone clearly hasn't read the bit about the seperation of church and state, and he should be careful, if he thinks its ok to impose his religion on others, what happens when someone gets the same powers and tries to impose their religion on him?

I'm going to bring up this because of your last two posts. There's been a little of a culture war over this for the last few decades.

 

[Persephone]

Yes, in America the Left generally opposes bans on Sharia law while the Right advocates for them. Yes, the Left in America happens to like women's and LGBTQ rights considerably more than the Right. No, that's not in opposition.

As noted before, bans on Sharia law don't do anything in America because it literally already isn't Constitutional by most reasonable interpretations. Even if it was Constitutional, there's about a 0% chance that actually happens because Muslims are a small, thinly spread, and highly marginalized group in American culture that currently isn't growing much faster than the population as a whole. If there was a reasonable chance of Sharia actually happening, liberals would be on the forefront of opposing it. But there isn't, so effectively liberal opposition to redundant bans is less about the policy itself and more about the rationale behind it.

The right opposes Sharia not because it restricts freedoms for women or LGBTQ people but because it's associated with Islam. A popular refrain in the conspiracy-peddling, far right publications since 9/11 has been that all Muslims are terrorists hell-bent on destroying Christianity. This has already been used to substantially curb the civil liberties of Muslims on pretenses that more or less don't hold up in real life. The bans on Sharia are an attempt to peddle more fear by providing legitimacy through the claims through circular reasoning: There would be no need to ban Sharia if it wasn't a serious and imminent threat, we banned Sharia, so it must have been a serious and imminent threat.

In reality, the American right actually really does want laws and social standards to be based on Evangelical Christianity, which is in itself a form of religious holy law. They also want to use this justification to curb the rights of women and LGBTQ Americans, among others. But the Muslim holy law would not be Christian holy law and, besides, America is a Christian country, not a Muslim one.

Really, this comes down to some attacking a politically powerless community to peddle fear amongst Christians to gain votes. Tellingly enough, a Venn diagram of American politicians pushing for Sharia law bans and American politicians who have uttered the words "The Homosexual Agenda" with a straight face would basically be a circle. It's not about the merits of Sharia, because that's about as likely to become law in America as Martian is to become the official language. Rather, it's about showing basic respect for minorities and refusing to propagate detestable and factually baseless conspiracies about them to gain votes.

But, if after all of the points I made previously, you still think that the Muslims could imminently establish an American caliphate unless we explicitly say that's illegal, I'm sorry but I don't waste my time trying to debate conspiracy theorists.

 

[The Infidel]

Yes, in America the Left generally opposes bans on Sharia law while the Right advocates for them. Yes, the Left in America happens to like women's and LGBTQ rights considerably more than the Right. No, that's not in opposition.

As noted before, bans on Sharia law don't do anything in America because it literally already isn't Constitutional by most reasonable interpretations. Even if it was Constitutional, there's about a 0% chance that actually happens because Muslims are a small, thinly spread, and highly marginalized group in American culture that currently isn't growing much faster than the population as a whole. If there was a reasonable chance of Sharia actually happening, liberals would be on the forefront of opposing it. But there isn't, so effectively liberal opposition to redundant bans is less about the policy itself and more about the rationale behind it.

The right opposes Sharia not because it restricts freedoms for women or LGBTQ people but because it's associated with Islam. A popular refrain in the conspiracy-peddling, far right publications since 9/11 has been that all Muslims are terrorists hell-bent on destroying Christianity. This has already been used to substantially curb the civil liberties of Muslims on pretenses that more or less don't hold up in real life. The bans on Sharia are an attempt to peddle more fear by providing legitimacy through the claims through circular reasoning: There would be no need to ban Sharia if it wasn't a serious and imminent threat, we banned Sharia, so it must have been a serious and imminent threat.

In reality, the American right actually really does want laws and social standards to be based on Evangelical Christianity, which is in itself a form of religious holy law. They also want to use this justification to curb the rights of women and LGBTQ Americans, among others. But the Muslim holy law would not be Christian holy law and, besides, America is a Christian country, not a Muslim one.

Really, this comes down to some attacking a politically powerless community to peddle fear amongst Christians to gain votes. Tellingly enough, a Venn diagram of American politicians pushing for Sharia law bans and American politicians who have uttered the words "The Homosexual Agenda" with a straight face would basically be a circle. It's not about the merits of Sharia, because that's about as likely to become law in America as Martian is to become the official language. Rather, it's about showing basic respect for minorities and refusing to propagate detestable and factually baseless conspiracies about them to gain votes.

But, if after all of the points I made previously, you still think that the Muslims could imminently establish an American caliphate unless we explicitly say that's illegal, I'm sorry but I don't waste my time trying to debate conspiracy theorists.

Again you seem to be wilfully misinterpreting what I am saying. At no point did I suggest an American caliphate or that it would sweep the whole country.

I am referring to individual pockets, as seen in Europe, where Shariah law is implemented. There is no country in Europe that is entirely Shariah, but many countries, such as the aforementioned UK, France and Sweden, where Shariah courts are already working openly, and there are self declared Shariah zones, and Shariah patrols.

Yes its not all over the country, but still we are seeing these pockets emerge in our communities, and it is more than likely that we will see the same occur in the US over the next decade. Hence the need to explicitly ban the practise.