US/UM Trailers and News Discussion

[Niyuura]

Someone posted this on 4chan, a few people claiming it's from "the official nintendo website". I don't know if it's legit though, can't find it

https://i.********/vp/1505484547169.jpg

 

[Rosalia R]

Someone posted this on 4chan, a few people claiming it's from "the official nintendo website". I don't know if it's legit though, can't find it

https://i.********/vp/1505484547169.jpg

That looks really fake to me, if they were going to show Burst and Assembly I think they'd use the official art. Not to mention neither of us being able to find it anywhere.

Side note, it's interesting that official Pokemon site has updated to show the names of Dusk Mane and Dawn Wings Necrozma as well as the Lycanrocium Z but not anything about the UBs, despite them appearing in the same trailer. When UB-01 got revealed it showed up on the website at the same time as Type: Null, Alolan Raticate and everything else from that trailer.

Maybe that indicates we'll get a new trailer focusing on the expanded lore of Ultra Space soon. Or maybe it means they just forgot, or had some other completely illogical reason not to include them.

 

[Niyuura]

That looks really fake to me, if they were going to show Burst and Assembly I think they'd use the official art.

Side note, it's interesting that official Pokemon site has updated to show the names of Dusk Mane and Dawn Wings Necrozma as well as the Lycanrocium Z but not anything about the UBs, despite them appearing in the same trailer. When UB-01 got revealed it showed up on the website at the same time as Type: Null, Alolan Raticate and everything else from that trailer.

Maybe that indicates we'll get a new trailer focusing on the expanded lore of Ultra Space soon. Or maybe it means they just forgot, or had some other completely illogical reason not to include them.

Yeah, I suppose it's fake. It looks like something the official website would stylize differently anyway.

But in actual news, Ohmori and Iwao are gonna at Gamesweek in Milan. It's possible we will get something then, whether it be a demo or rehashing old info or revealing something new

Shigeru Ohmori e Kazumasa Iwao di GAME FREAK saranno al Milan Games Week - Pokémon Millennium


EDIT: Well, maybe we won't get anything (demo still possible). The article says a live battle from USUM will be held by Ohmori/Iwao at the event

 

[SinnohEevee]

I knew they weren't sequels from the start, because if they were, GF would have said so. It would have generated more hype.

 

[Niyuura]

I knew they weren't sequels from the start, because if they were, GF would have said so. It would have generated more hype.

I knew they weren't sequels from the start too, but I deluded myself that GF could for once do more with "an alternate story" than your generic 3rd version, especially since they had the audacity to split the game in 2... Alas, it looks like it was nothing but delusions

 

[Desdar300]

Quick thoughts
Lycanroc- it's great that it has its own move but I feel that it should've been shown along with Dusk last month.
Necrozma- very interested to see what its connection to everything is.
New areas- really exciting
New Ultra Beast - Now that's what I'm talking about! As others have stated, this is a game changer for various reasons. Now in any upcoming remake or follow up GF can put new mons in which is a really exciting

 

[Team Gaara]

"Significant"

Ha ha! No.

It is always really minor changes especially when compared to Gen 5. Emerald and Platinum are hardly anymore different than Ruby to Sapphire or Pearl to Diamond. If anything Emerald does a better job compared to Platinum but overall it's the same game and the same story. There is nothing significant about any traditional third version.



When has "be vague so your customers don't know shit" ever been a requirement for selling a game? Last time I checked your job when trying to sell a game is trying to sell a game. I don't see how you have to pull the wool over people eyes to do that (unless your product sucks, which evidently it doesn't if a lot of people agree with you). Being vague for the purpose of obscuring what your product is is misleading by definition. There is no other reason to be vague about something like this besides accidentally saying the wrong things.

I would figure if game companies were unclear to the point of misleading customers about literally everything all the time their good will would be in the toilet, including Game Freak's. Honestly that is such a nonsense statement. Like being coy about a product is required by law.

Gen 5 isn't comparable because those aren't alternate stories. They're different stories altogether. So there's no comparison between BW and BW2. PT and Emerald have significant enough differences between them and the original games. Whether that's worth the money is on you but the changes are significant. The additon of entirely new locations and legendary plots, as well as the gym rosters and new characters is what I'd consider significant.

And you're vague so you aren't spoiling everything upfront as people will have something to look for. These are literally the complaints people had with ORAS was that they said too much and there was nothing to discover. No one said it was required, it's just typical (for games I play, at least) to not reveal everything right away. And I stand by that no one was misled, it's not thier problem if people assume they're getting things that weren't promised~

 

[zoroarctic]

I was excited after the initial announcement, and this latest round of news did nothing to change that. Looking forward to visiting the new areas and seeing what there is to do in them. Also glad we're getting more older Pokemon in the Dex this time.

Also, I know I've said it before, but I really don't understand all the handwringing over these games. Like, seriously, what gives?

 

[Lufenium]

Someone posted this on 4chan, a few people claiming it's from "the official nintendo website". I don't know if it's legit though, can't find it

https://i.********/vp/1505484547169.jpg

That image is reminiscent of the one PokeJungle used in their recent article on the possibility of more ultra beasts.

Nintendo Gives Slim Hope of More New Ultra Beasts [UPD]

 

[Desdar300]

Another interesting thing is that seemingly after absorbing Nebby, Necrozma immediately flies into a wormhole. Nebby was the only reason we could enter Ultra Space to begin with and without it we're SOL.

 

[Esserise]

Also, I know I've said it before, but I really don't understand all the handwringing over these games. Like, seriously, what gives?

It's very simple.

"Third versions," in the sense of games that are basically the same game that you already paid for but with some extra bits and bobs, suck in comparison to games that offer more new content and a different experience. Because obviously, with the latter, it feels less like you're spending money on something you already paid for and played through once.

With B2W2, Game Freak demonstrated that they are able to revisit a current region in a way that isn't merely a polished reprint of the first games of the current generation. B2W2 are a substantially different experience from BW in terms of storyline, region layout, Pokémon availability, and features. Especially so in comparison to the relationship between Crystal and GS, Emerald and RS, or Platinum and DP.

Then in Gen 6, they opted to not revisit Kalos at all in favor of making RS remakes. Many people interpreted this, in conjunction with the avoidance of a traditional "Gray Version" to accompany BW, to mean that Game Freak had moved on from the practice of making "third versions." After all, these days, the things that third versions offer can just as easily be sold as DLC. Not that Game Freak are actually interested in selling DLC, but it does make it harder to justify the packaging of minor, DLC-worthy additions and improvements to an existing game as a distinct new game unto itself.

So when USUM were announced and all that was said of their nature was that they contained "an alternate story in the Alola region," a wide assumption was that since Game Freak had seemingly moved on from the outdated formula of making third versions, USUM would be a substantially different experience from SM. Maybe not with so many new areas due to the fragmented geography of the region, but certainly in terms of content, Pokémon availability, storyline details, and perhaps the sequence of our progression through the region. The games wouldn't necessarily need to be chronological sequels in order for this to work; they could represent a version of the SM story that takes place in a radically diverged alternative universe. Change enough of the surrounding details, and you could still end up with a plot that looks very different from what played out in SM. And on top of that, it simply doesn't make a lot of sense to copy SM's storyline almost verbatim - SM's storyline is, by quite some distance, their most immersive, emotive, and character-focused storyline yet, and is packed with several dramatic twists (all of which is very intentional - they have said that the improved graphical capabilities compelled them to tell a more dedicated story). Logically, this should preclude the possibility of recycling SM's storyline for USUM, because if we're made to sit through the same story again, it becomes very difficult to invest in it. We already know all of the underlying character motivations, we already know all the plot beats, we already know all the big twists.

The "handwringing" comes from the fact that what we've seen of the games thus far suggests that they actually have just reverted to the third version model, and that USUM will follow the same basic path as SM up until we get to the Altar on Poni Island. This stings, if you had been thinking that Game Freak were refining their approach to games that revisit the current region. Two generations of progress and attempts to make regional double-dipping more monetarily worthwhile appear to have been brazenly ignored in favor of something that was last in vogue a decade ago.

Compounding this is the lack of exciting news about the games in general. Necrozma's mysterious new forms seem to be an unambitious imitation of Kyurem's fusion gimmick. There are no new Alola Forms to be seen, despite those being one of the most well-received things from SM (but were simultaneously criticized for focusing exclusively on Generation 1 Pokémon, and right now would theoretically be a perfect time for Game Freak to address that criticism since the Gold & Silver VC releases have put the Generation 2 Pokémon in some degree of spotlight). The new forms that we do have are a seventh Ash-Cap Pikachu variant and an eminently predictable, event-exclusive Lycanroc form that is probably only defeated for the title of "least ambitious form change ever" by Keldeo-R, and all that it really accomplishes is making Midnight Form even more useless. The only properly new feature that we know of is... more photography, which is okay, but nothing even remotely on the scale of player engagement as the Pokéathlon or even just plain Contests. Oh and I guess there are a couple of new Z-Moves with arduously long animations.

So yeah, that's what the handwringing is about.

(The new Ultra Beasts were an unexpected surprise, and have been suitably praised by most.)

 

[Desdar300]

It's very simple.

"Third versions," in the sense of games that are basically the same game that you already paid for but with some extra bits and bobs, suck in comparison to games that offer more new content and a different experience. Because obviously, with the latter, it feels less like you're spending money on something you already paid for and played through once.

With B2W2, Game Freak demonstrated that they are able to revisit a current region in a way that isn't merely a polished reprint of the first games of the current generation. B2W2 are a substantially different experience from BW in terms of storyline, region layout, Pokémon availability, and features. Especially so in comparison to the relationship between Crystal and GS, Emerald and RS, or Platinum and DP.

Then in Gen 6, they opted to not revisit Kalos at all in favor of making RS remakes. Many people interpreted this, in conjunction with the avoidance of a traditional "Gray Version" to accompany BW, to mean that Game Freak had moved on from the practice of making "third versions." After all, these days, the things that third versions offer can just as easily be sold as DLC. Not that Game Freak are actually interested in selling DLC, but it does make it harder to justify the packaging of minor, DLC-worthy additions and improvements to an existing game as a distinct new game unto itself.

So when USUM were announced and all that was said of their nature was that they contained "an alternate story in the Alola region," a wide assumption was that since Game Freak had seemingly moved on from the outdated formula of making third versions, USUM would be a substantially different experience from SM. Maybe not with so many new areas due to the fragmented geography of the region, but certainly in terms of content, Pokémon availability, storyline details, and perhaps the sequence of our progression through the region. The games wouldn't necessarily need to be chronological sequels in order for this to work; they could represent a version of the SM story that takes place in a radically diverged alternative universe. Change enough of the surrounding details, and you could still end up with a plot that looks very different from what played out in SM. And on top of that, it simply doesn't make a lot of sense to copy SM's storyline almost verbatim - SM's storyline is, by quite some distance, their most immersive, emotive, and character-focused storyline yet, and is packed with several dramatic twists (all of which is very intentional - they have said that the improved graphical capabilities compelled them to tell a more dedicated story). Logically, this should preclude the possibility of recycling SM's storyline for USUM, because if we're made to sit through the same story again, it becomes very difficult to invest in it. We already know all of the underlying character motivations, we already know all the plot beats, we already know all the big twists.

The "handwringing" comes from the fact that what we've seen of the games thus far suggests that they actually have just reverted to the third version model, and that USUM will follow the same basic path as SM up until we get to the Altar on Poni Island. This stings, if you had been thinking that Game Freak were refining their approach to games that revisit the current region. Two generations of progress and attempts to make regional double-dipping more monetarily worthwhile appear to have been brazenly ignored in favor of something that was last in vogue a decade ago.

Compounding this is the lack of exciting news about the games in general. Necrozma's mysterious new forms seem to be an unambitious imitation of Kyurem's fusion gimmick. There are no new Alola Forms to be seen, despite those being one of the most well-received things from SM (but were simultaneously criticized for focusing exclusively on Generation 1 Pokémon, and right now would theoretically be a perfect time for Game Freak to address that criticism since the Gold & Silver VC releases have put the Generation 2 Pokémon in some degree of spotlight). The new forms that we do have are a seventh Ash-Cap Pikachu variant and an eminently predictable, event-exclusive Lycanroc form that is probably only defeated for the title of "least ambitous form change ever" by Keldeo-R, and all that it really accomplishes is making Midnight Form even more useless. The only properly new feature that we know of is... more photography, which is okay, but nothing even remotely on the scale of player engagement as the Pokéathlon or even just plain Contests. Oh and I guess there are a couple of new Z-Moves with arduously long animations.

So yeah, that's what the handwringing is about.

(The new Ultra Beasts were an unexpected surprise, and have been suitably praised by most.)

Speaking as a guy who has his noise all over the Web and various fourms worldwide. I'd assert that most people aren't peeved because they're just third versions but rather that they're still on the 3ds. The legendary Pokemon Stars was stated to be a mere third version too but nobody gave a hoot because it would've been the first ever console game for the franchise. Why, the hype for that rumor was so huge that my fellow teacher friend told ME about it and he's not really a gamer at all. If things played out the way everyone thought and we were still in this very scenario, most would probably give the games a pass simply because of what it is ( first ever console game)
Atlas, it doesn't matter how good USUM turn out it'll still have a dedicated hatedom because it's not Pokemon Switch or Gen four remakes.

 

[Esserise]

Speaking as a guy who has his noise all over the Web and various fourms worldwide. I'd assert that most people aren't peeved because they're just third versions but rather that they're still on the 3ds. The legendary Pokemon Stars was stated to be a mere third version too but nobody gave a hoot because it would've been the first ever console game for the franchise. Why, the hype for that rumor was so huge that my fellow teacher friend told ME about it and he's not really a gamer at all. If things played out the way everyone thought and we were still in this very scenario, most would probably give the games a pass simply because of what it is ( first ever console game)
Atlas, it doesn't matter how good USUM turn out it'll still have a dedicated hatedom because it's not Pokemon Switch or Gen four remakes.

I myself thought that a third version like the rumored Stars sounded perfectly reasonable if it were going on the Switch; naturally, in order to move onto it that quickly, they'd have had to make some compromises and tone down their ambition. Among other reasons, it seemed to me like the one good excuse for bringing third versions back.

A third version on the 3DS, though? But we know they can do a lot better than that... even if my last remaining thread of (probably delusional) hope is correct and they've shaken up everything except the Lillie storyline for the purposes of contrast, it's still kind of disappointing to know that that's as far as their vision for AU possibilities extends.

 

[Desdar300]

I myself thought that a third version like the rumored Stars sounded perfectly reasonable if it were going on the Switch; naturally, in order to move onto it that quickly, they'd have had to make some compromises and tone down their ambition. Among other reasons, it seemed to me like the one good excuse for bringing third versions back.

A third version on the 3DS, though? But we know they can do a lot better than that... even if my last remaining thread of (probably delusional) hope is correct and they've shaken up everything except the Lillie storyline for the purposes of contrast, it's still kind of disappointing to know that that's as far as their vision for AU possibilities extends.

Fair enough but I would've found it a tad worse being that you'd likely be shelling out three hundred bucks and more for a console thats nigh impossible to find while paying likely sixty bucks each for both versions doesn't sound at all ideal.
But none of that wouldn't have mattered because of artificial hype over what would've been USUM but in HD. There wouldn't be talk of whether or not this is over priced DLC or even caring about how different it'll be and certainly not ramblings about whether third versions should still exist in the era of dlc. Forgive me for my silly ramblings.

 

[Esserise]

Fair enough but I would've found it a tad worse being that you'd likely be shelling out three hundred bucks and more for a console thats nigh impossible to find while paying likely sixty bucks each for both versions doesn't sound at all ideal.
But none of that wouldn't have mattered because of artificial hype over what would've been USUM but in HD. There wouldn't be talk of whether or not this is over priced DLC or even caring about how different it'll be and certainly not ramblings about whether third versions should still exist in the era of dlc. Forgive me for my silly ramblings.

No I mean, I do see your point. I was just saying, you happened to mention the perspective of "What if this had been on the Switch; then a lot of people would be willing to forgive it despite it being the same thing basically" and I thought it would be worth mentioning that that'd actually been my position during the Stars rumor era.

If I'm being realistic, I don't think USUM will be bad games; I don't think Game Freak can really make truly bad Pokémon games. I think things would have to go seriously wrong in order for that to happen. It's just that, while I'm sure my money will buy me a decent experience here, the potential was there for something a lot more substantive, and I wish that were still on the table. But I know me. As long as we get cool UBs, new Alola Forms from other generations, expanded trials, and some new features (all of which should come naturally to any game that revisits Alola), I can probably turn off the plot critic side of my brain and just enjoy that stuff.

 

[Eggseggseggseggs]

Gen 5 isn't comparable because those aren't alternate stories. They're different stories altogether. So there's no comparison between BW and BW2.

I am comparing them because Alternate vs Different stories is what I'm arguing about (that and if GF were clear enough about which USUM was). I'm saying different stories are better. They are more creative and feel more significant and more worth my money. If USUM were like BW2 or were different enough that they felt more like BW2 I would actually care that I am missing out and want to buy them when I have the money. Plus they felt the need to make two versions of this despite otherwise not following the formula of of BW2 so in that way it is even worse than past third games and comes off as just trying to milk customers for all they are worth.

And you're vague so you aren't spoiling everything upfront as people will have something to look for. These are literally the complaints people had with ORAS was that they said too much and there was nothing to discover. No one said it was required, it's just typical (for games I play, at least) to not reveal everything right away.

"that's your job when promoting a game" That implied to me that you were saying being vague is a requirement if you are trying to sell a game.

Who said anything about revealing anything? I'm only arguing for one specific thing. Spoiling everything and releasing a rehash of your previous game are two different things. The first one is a bad idea and you already said why, the problem here is making it clear GF is going back to the old practice of rereleasing the same game with minor (imho) changes. I also think the idea of it in the first place is dumb after BW2.

 

[Desdar300]

No I mean, I do see your point. I was just saying, you happened to mention the perspective of "What if this had been on the Switch; then a lot of people would be willing to forgive it despite it being the same thing basically" and I thought it would be worth mentioning that that'd actually been my position during the Stars rumor era.

If I'm being realistic, I don't think USUM will be bad games; I don't think Game Freak can really make truly bad Pokémon games. I think things would have to go seriously wrong in order for that to happen. It's just that, while I'm sure my money will buy me a decent experience here, the potential was there for something a lot more substantive, and I wish that were still on the table. And frankly, I know me. As long as we get cool UBs, new Alola Forms from other generations, expanded trials, and some new features (all of which should come naturally to any game that revisits Alola), I can probably turn off the plot critic side of my brain and just enjoy that stuff.

Oh sorry if that came off as bearing haha.
I reckon the odds were against the games no matter what though. After the honeymoon period of Stars would conclude the very same lot that praised it would turn to antagonize it after they realized they played SM DX while others would call GF lazy because it didn't look like BOW or Xenoblade. Afterwards we'd take to the web to discuss how GF had better fix things up in the next pair of games to follow.
Admittingly, I'm starting to get a case of Deja Vu.

 

[TerraTF]

Anyone remember in the first trailer with the shots of Togedemaru, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc that were speculated to be totem battles? It looks like Lycanroc's short clip is the same clip that is shown as part of it's new Z-Move. This could lead us to believe that Togedemaru and Mimikyu are extremely likely to get new Z-Moves as well.

 

[Fluttershy of Light]

Anyone remember in the first trailer with the shots of Togedemaru, Mimikyu, and Lycanroc that were speculated to be totem battles? It looks like Lycanroc's short clip is the same clip that is shown as part of it's new Z-Move. This could lead us to believe that Togedemaru and Mimikyu are extremely likely to get new Z-Moves as well.

Yeah it was.. The only question though is what is the Base move for Mimi's Z-move? The only two moves that seem logical enough are shadow Sneak and Shadow claw.. Assuming it's of course a ghost type Z move based on the animation given..
Togedemaru's would obviously be Zing Zap because it's the signature move.. But I wonder if it'll get the signature move bonus that Kommo-o's Z move has..
And hopefully it'll get access to Iron head with the move tutors so it'll actually have decent steel stab..

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Wait a minute... have we seen anything of Skull in the trailers? Are they even existing in this alternate version of SM?

If team Skull is absent it would make for an interesting game. First of all the worst evil team will cease to exist. And Guzma could probably be a trial captain in this story.