• A new LGBTQ+ forum is now being trialed and there have been changes made to the Support and Advice forum. To read more about these updates, click here.
  • Hey Trainers! Be sure to check out Corsola Beach, our newest section on the forums, in partnership with our friends at Corsola Cove! At the Beach, you can discuss the competitive side of the games, post your favorite Pokemon memes, and connect with other Pokemon creators!
  • Due to the recent changes with Twitter's API, it is no longer possible for Bulbagarden forum users to login via their Twitter account. If you signed up to Bulbagarden via Twitter and do not have another way to login, please contact us here with your Twitter username so that we can get you sorted.

Was it the writers intention to make Dawn go out being better than Ash?

Masurao

Easy listening
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Messages
3,312
Reaction score
3
I've seen some people say that Dawn was better than Ash preformance wise throughout Sinnoh ( due to Ash still making "newbie mistakes"), and looking back it seemed the writers were trying to show Dawn being better at her goal than Ash is his ( being alot closer within reach). After all she made it to the Top 2 on her first try.

While you could excuse this for her limited screentime, what do you think? Are they in fact implying Dawn is better at her goal than Ash is his, or they just simply trying to give seemigly the last contest protagonist a great ending?
 
Their were only 32 competitors in the GF after the appeals. There were 64 competitors in the Sinnoh League. Since Dawn got Top 2 and Ash got Top 4 they both won the exact same amount of battles to get to where they were. Besides Ash defeated his rival Paul while Dawn lost to Zoey. So they did about the same IMO
 
Dawn's character would be retired after Sinnoh. Ash's character wouldn't retire anytime soon. The writers probably allowed Dawn to come closer to winning her competition in comparison to Ash as a result.
 
Eh?

Dawn got a B+. Ash got a B. They're still both B's, even if Dawn scored 2 points ahead of him.

Don't focus on the ranking side anyway. It's a waste of time to be binary about who got further when Ash is taking the History test and Dawn is taking the Geography one.
 
No I was just curious over who preformed better/showed more skill towards their goal.

I've seen some people go as far to say Dawn is a better trainer than Ash is due to her constantly improving this season, while Ash apparently still makes "rookie" mistakes. While I disagree with that, it makes you wonder...
 
I've seen some people go as far to say Dawn is a better trainer than Ash is due to her constantly improving this season, while Ash apparently still makes "rookie" mistakes. While I disagree with that, it makes you wonder...

Nothing to wonder about. Ash's character is essentially "reset" every series (including his experience and development; even Pikachu suddenly loses it power). Since Dawn was only around for a single series, her development is significantly more apparent.
 
Actually, I wanna kill the writers for making Dawn to be better than Ash. Dawn is only a rookie but Ash isn't. How come Dawn look so much better than Ash. Not only Ash, May also wasn't a rookie in the Kanto GF but still she ranked worse than Dawn did in the Sinnoh GF. That's totally ridiculous.
 
Actually, I wanna kill the writers for making Dawn to be better than Ash. Dawn is only a rookie but Ash isn't. How come Dawn look so much better than Ash. Not only Ash, May also wasn't a rookie in the Kanto GF but still she ranked worse than Dawn did in the Sinnoh GF. That's totally ridiculous.

The Grand Festival and Pokemon League are two completely different types of competitions. As for May... the writers simply wanted to allow Dawn to go a little farther than her. No big deal, is it?
 
No I was just curious over who preformed better/showed more skill towards their goal.
What does it matter?

It still sounds like you're trying to quantify each character's performance as some sort of stat. It can't be nor was it the intention of those creating the anime to do so. It's a subjective view, which means pick the one you felt did better. Also come to grips with the fact that you probably won't change someone else's mind either if they disagree.
 
Not only Ash, May also wasn't a rookie in the Kanto GF but still she ranked worse than Dawn did in the Sinnoh GF. That's totally ridiculous.

Dawn being better than May makes sense, because in the conext of both of their developments May mistakes made sense and we saw why she didn't get as far as Dawn did.
 
Last edited:
But the problems is that May was still wondering what new moves combinations she can have with her Pokémon after the Kanto GF, while Dawn already have a bunch of moves combinations before the Sinnoh GF. It obviously make Dawn look better than May. Go back to Ash, his moves like the spinning and the Ice Aqua Jet, both were learnt from Dawn. It seems like Dawn is the experienced one while Ash is the rookie.
 
Go back to Ash, his moves like the spinning and the Ice Aqua Jet, both were learnt from Dawn. It seems like Dawn is the experienced one while Ash is the rookie.

Both of those are more contest like than regular battle. Ash was taking something from contests and implementing them in battle. Ash came up with strategies on his own like counter sheild, a move even Paul decided to use against Ash.
 
What does it matter?

It matters simply because I'm trying to figure out the pace they are moving Ash at. May, and Dawn both placed better than Ash in there respective tournaments. That was obviously due to their repsective limited screen-time, and probably why they are focusing on soley Ash with no coordinators so as to not have someone completely overshadow him by actually accomplishing their goal. If Iris was the next coordinator, and we go by past patters. She would win the GF and Ash would get Top 4 again.

Ash beating legendaries is proof enough of his skill to make it all they way, so why didn't they just have it in the Top 2 so it won't feel like were in for another consecutive Top 4 like the double helping of Top 8 we got?

Because making it Top 16 > Top 8 > Top 8 > Top 4 > Top 4 > Top 2 > Winner is somewhat ridiculous

@Rhypherior

Ash wasn't Dawn's mentor at all. They were more like classmates learning stuff from each other.
 
Maybe you're right. But still I cannot accpet Dawn going further than Ash. And having Iris win the GF while Ash still stop at the semifinals would be horrible. Another three Gen before Ash finally win the League would be even more horrible.
 
IMO, that's just ridiculous. Saying Dawn made it to top 2 here doesn't mean she is better than Ash because he scored top 4 else where. I mean i don't see Dawn defeating two legendary Pokemon any time soon.

-Both Ash and Dawn had to defeat the same amount of people to get to where they were.
-Ash Defeated Paul while Dawn lost to Zoey
-Ash Defeated two legends in Darkrai and Latios.
-Ash won 8 gym badges Dawn won 5 ribbons.

So, IMO they accomplished just about the same. If not Ash did even more.
 
What anger me most is that they have Dawn as the first runner-up of the GF and Ash in the top 4 of the Sinnoh League when they could have had Ash as the winner of the Sinnoh League. Ash certainly have the quality to be the winner. Dawn could be in the top 2, why couldn't Ash be the winner?
 
Ash certainly have the quality to be the winner. Dawn could be in the top 2, why couldn't Ash be the winner?

Dawn isn't around in BW, and I think that her rivals were in for their first GF too. Ash had more experienced competition in the League.
 
What anger me most is that they have Dawn as the first runner-up of the GF and Ash in the top 4 of the Sinnoh League when they could have had Ash as the winner of the Sinnoh League. Ash certainly have the quality to be the winner. Dawn could be in the top 2, why couldn't Ash be the winner?

Because they want to drag stuff out. Though I do agree Ash vs Takuto should have been the finals if you look at the finalist result.

Also if you look at their respective tournaments Dawn's was a little cheapened due to the fact Jessie made it as far as she did, and the fact that she was Dawn's key into the finals. While Ash had to battle Takuto.

It is somewhat strange to not have the main character not reach the level of the finals yet, reguardless of the competition while a temporary character does so.
 
This is like if I called myself a better person than you simply because I'm a Professor of Biological Sciences. We all know that's not true, even if society pretends it is. Nobody cried this much when May also got higher in her tournament than Ash did. Why does this one matter more? It is astounding that the writers allowed the co-star to get that close to her goal, closer than anyone in the entire anime has ever gotten. Does that make her better than Ash? Depends on your point of view. As a Coordinator, yes, she is. As a trainer? There are many different kinds of trainer, and Coordinator is just one of them. If Dawn were to have a regular battle against Ash, he would flatten her. We are talking two different skill sets here, and it would be like comparing apples and oranges. I would say more, but I'm in enough trouble already and I don't think I'm going to convince anyone of anything.
 
Please note: The thread is from 14 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
Back
Top Bottom