Werewolf -- Endgame, Town Victory -- 5/8/13

[Flaze]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

Actually I wanted to say that I'll have to step down from the game, I'm bed ridden at the moment plus exams are coming up so I've had to study a lot and most of my time on here goes to RPs and I forget to post a lot xD I'm sorry for troubling you guys with not being active, I really have to fix that.
@Phoenicks;

 

[Phoenicks]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

@Yatagarasu; agreed to sub back in. Thanks!

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

Role confirmed

Give me some time to catch back up and I'll post my thoughts or I guess vote in this case

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

Role confirmed

Give me some time to catch back up and I'll post my thoughts or I guess vote in this case

Ok. I'm eager to hear a fresh perspective. It may be helpful, here.

I suspect HumanDawn, and probably will reread the thread a bit as well. I don't like that he completely disregarded what Vesna had to say and hopped on the Flame_wagon.

You and Flame_ both seem to be angling in this direction. Do you still feel this way? If so, can you elaborate?

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

Okay caught up an my vote goes to VOTE: Master Mew you've been the leader on every lynch so far an they were the ones that made mistakes, scummy ones. CF you refused to vote do day one and constantly were pushing for my lynch, tunneling. You tried for Zima today who made some obvious mistakes, and of course being the innocent child keeping your vote on her would show you being scum. All your votes have been for easy lynche s. almost forgot: on the CF lynch your evidence was simply from day two none from day one was mentioned by you. You claim she was suspect day one after me but that could have been in preparation when I flipped town. Foul candy died night one making it easy to frame CF

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

Okay caught up an my vote goes to VOTE: Master Mew you've been the leader on every lynch so far an they were the ones that made mistakes, scummy ones. CF you refused to vote do day one and constantly were pushing for my lynch, tunneling. You tried for Zima today who made some obvious mistakes, and of course being the innocent child keeping your vote on her would show you being scum. All your votes have been for easy lynche s. almost forgot: on the CF lynch your evidence was simply from day two none from day one was mentioned by you. You claim she was suspect day one after me but that could have been in preparation when I flipped town. Foul candy died night one making it easy to frame CF

Maybe I was voting for "easy lynches" because they were scummy - which, incidentally, is why they were easy lynches.

Day 1: You yourself admitted that the case against you was valid and that my reason for voting for you was valid, and that in my shoes you would have voted for you, too.

Day 2: Do you suddenly disagree with the CrackFox lynch? I don't remember you defending her Day 1 when TheMissingno. was trying to lynch her, but maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

 

[Paperhorse]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

Okay caught up an my vote goes to VOTE: Master Mew you've been the leader on every lynch so far an they were the ones that made mistakes, scummy ones. CF you refused to vote do day one and constantly were pushing for my lynch, tunneling. You tried for Zima today who made some obvious mistakes, and of course being the innocent child keeping your vote on her would show you being scum. All your votes have been for easy lynche s. almost forgot: on the CF lynch your evidence was simply from day two none from day one was mentioned by you. You claim she was suspect day one after me but that could have been in preparation when I flipped town. Foul candy died night one making it easy to frame CF

To be honest I don't really buy this line of reasoning regarding Master Mew because he wasn't tunneling you day one imo. Plus you're tunneling him right now, which is contradictory.

@Vesna; what do you think?

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

FoS: Paperhorse

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

Maybe I was voting for "easy lynches" because they were scummy - which, incidentally, is why they were easy lynches.

I've seen you lynch mafia on not super obvious scummy moves, and think of the possibility of mistakes so these lynches are easy for any mafia and you're at the head of them.

Day 1: You yourself admitted that the case against you was valid and that my reason for voting for you was valid, and that in my shoes you would have voted for you, too.

Yes I said your vote was justified, that of course means nothing as townies make mistake. You jumped on it and used it as your only evidence against me. My name kept coming up day one in your posts, telling others how scummy I was for one wrong move.

Day 2: Do you suddenly disagree with the CrackFox lynch? I don't remember you defending her Day 1 when TheMissingno. was trying to lynch her, but maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

Yeah she was my suspect on DAY ONE. When I was reading her lynching she seemed like a townie that just couldn't get the pressure off of her, and that town/mafia would not leave alone.

To be honest I don't really buy this line of reasoning regarding Master Mew because he wasn't tunneling you day one imo. Plus you're tunneling him right now, which is contradictory.

Voting MM = tunneling? How please tell me. It would be nice to hear your thoughts because I forgot you were in this game since I saw so few posts by you.

@Vesna; what do you think?

Why only Vesna? Didn't she state during a previous phase that she found MM suspicious?

FoS: Paperhorse

Why? Is she your scumbuddy and you're worried about her defense of you and are bussing her to look town?

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

I've seen you lynch mafia on not super obvious scummy moves, and think of the possibility of mistakes so these lynches are easy for any mafia and you're at the head of them.

Yes, I've been forthcoming with my views and pushed hard to lynch my suspects - which is pretty much the opposite of what Scum tend to do, which is to be vague and dodgy and try to avoid responsibility for lynches.

Yes I said your vote was justified, that of course means nothing as townies make mistake. You jumped on it and used it as your only evidence against me. My name kept coming up day one in your posts, telling others how scummy I was for one wrong move.

Yep. I was. Because you were.

Yeah she was my suspect on DAY ONE. When I was reading her lynching she seemed like a townie that just couldn't get the pressure off of her, and that town/mafia would not leave alone.

So you suspected her, too, but now that we know she was innocent you find it suspicious that other people didn't see it?

FoS: Paperhorse

Why? Is she your scumbuddy and you're worried about her defense of you and are bussing her to look town?

lol Yes, you caught me, that's exactly what I was doing. :drowsy:

I find it really amusing that you can tell Paperhorse you aren't tunneling and then turn right around and make a comment like that.

I FoS'd Paperhorse because she made the appearance of defending me while simultaneously inviting Vesna to comment on the issue, as if she didn't already know Vesna's opinion - but we do know Vesna's opinion, she suspects me for the same reason you do. Paperhorse is "defending" me while inviting others to accuse me - she appears to be setting up a mislynch on me so she can turn around and say she tried to defend me but there was nothing she could do.

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

I've seen you lynch mafia on not super obvious scummy moves, and think of the possibility of mistakes so these lynches are easy for any mafia and you're at the head of them.

Yes, I've been forthcoming with my views and pushed hard to lynch my suspects - which is pretty much the opposite of what Scum tend to do, which is to be vague and dodgy and try to avoid responsibility for lynches.

Not true. Scum push for lynches too.

Yes I said your vote was justified, that of course means nothing as townies make mistake. You jumped on it and used it as your only evidence against me. My name kept coming up day one in your posts, telling others how scummy I was for one wrong move.

Yep. I was. Because you were.]

You push others for their views without pushing for a lynch in everyone's faces from my experience with you. You don't do what you did day one, instead you present your case and ask others opinions about small things about multiple players.

Yeah she was my suspect on DAY ONE. When I was reading her lynching she seemed like a townie that just couldn't get the pressure off of her, and that town/mafia would not leave alone.

So you suspected her, too, but now that we know she was innocent you find it suspicious that other people didn't see it?

No I started thinking she was innocent while reading through day two. I never said its suspicious, I said you leading the lynch on her was suspicious after day one.

FoS: Paperhorse

Why? Is she your scumbuddy and you're worried about her defense of you and are bussing her to look town?

lol Yes, you caught me, that's exactly what I was doing. :drowsy:

I find it really amusing that you can tell Paperhorse you aren't tunneling and then turn right around and make a comment like that.[/QUOTE]

Comment like what? Please elaborate because your being unusually unsharing.

I FoS'd Paperhorse because she made the appearance of defending me while simultaneously inviting Vesna to comment on the issue, as if she didn't already know Vesna's opinion - but we do know Vesna's opinion, she suspects me for the same reason you do. Paperhorse is "defending" me while inviting others to accuse me - she appears to be setting up a mislynch on me so she can turn around and say she tried to defend me but there was nothing she could do.

So you FoSed her because she asked for another person's opinion even though she doesn't agree with me? How is that suspicious. Yeah we know Zima's opinion, but Paperhorse has been inactive and might have missed it.

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

Not true. Scum push for lynches too.

You push others for their views without pushing for a lynch in everyone's faces from my experience with you. You don't do what you did day one, instead you present your case and ask others opinions about small things about multiple players.

You're better than this.

When you think you've found scum, doing everything within your power to lynch them is Pro-Town. The people who say "Oh, I'm sort of suspicious of so-and-so but I don't want to be pushy," are the ones avoiding responsibility and, consequently, the ones who need the rope. Lynching someone for leading lynches on suspects is a good way to discourage Townies from leading lynches on their suspects.

It also merits mentioning that in this game lynches require a majority - the idea of pinning the blame on my shoulders for any of them, let alone all of them, is fallacious.

EDIT: Also, since you're using Meta, would you drop that point if I disproved it by linking to a game where I was Town, pushed hard for lynches on my suspects (some of whom were innocent), and it was almost universally agreed by everyone that this was the Pro-Town thing to do?

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

If you ask me, I think the two Mafia are Paperhorse and Flame_.

Flame_ because of scumminess, and Paperhorse because I think the others are more likely to be Town than her, and because her usual Mafia playstyle is to lay low, not voice her opinion much and not even say much. (See: Every single game she's been Mafia in, most recently the MLP:FiM Mafia hosted by adiosToreador) What is Paperhorse doing now? Staying over 90% true(if not 100%) to her Mafia playstyle. This is even a Vanilla game, with no more power roles she could possibly be laying low to be hiding. She's been repeatedly lurking this entire game.

Regarding Yatagarasu's case against Master Mew, it honestly doesn't hold any water, and I'd like if she dropped it, but it has given me town reads from her as I doubt that any scum in their right mind would debate and react like that.

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

Tentatively agree with the townread on Yatagarasu.

@HumanDawn Who is your top scumread? Paperhorse or Flame_?

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

@Master Mew; You said mafia don't push for lynches and that its pro town but its not. I've seen and done it myself,push for lynches as mafia.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

Tentatively agree with the townread on Yatagarasu.

@HumanDawn Who is your top scumread? Paperhorse or Flame_?

Flame_ at the moment. Paperhorse hasn't responded yet to what I said.

@Yatagarasu;

What do you think of Flame_?

You've said plenty of things about Master Mew, but nothing on Flame_, who has the most votes at the moment.

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

@Master Mew; You said mafia don't push for lynches and that its pro town but its not. I've seen and done it myself,push for lynches as mafia.

No, I didn't make an absolute statement like that, I said they tend to do that. Pointing out exceptions doesn't change that.

Scum try to avoid suspicion - that's their win condition. Part of that is avoiding responsibility for mislynches. Sometimes Scum are placed in a position where they have to take responsibility for a mislynch in order to accomplish this (and forcing Scum to do this is a big part of my playstyle), but whenever Scum have to commit to a solid position they lose ground - since they'll have to answer for that position later.

Making Scum take solid stances makes them vulnerable and more easily caught - you've pointed out that I've taken solid stances and pushed my views, but you haven't pointed out how you caught any scumslips because of that.

At the end of the day what you have is a case built largely around two facts:

1.) I've led two lynches on Townies, both of whom at least half the Town went along with.

2.) You think my play in this game is different from my play in previous games.

---

Point #1 isn't scummy, it just means I (along with half the Town) was wrong. Twice.

Point #2 isn't scummy because a.) I can try different tactics whenever I want, that isn't just reserved for when I'm Scum, and b.) it isn't true. I've played this way as Town before, and actually I usually play this way as Town on MafiaScum - and I've found the MafiaScum playstyle is better suited to this game, where majorities are needed and phases are long, than the Bulba playstyle I use in more traditional Bulba games.

Example: Newbie 1324

I pushed hard for lynches on my suspects day after day and I was called Town for doing so (and *spoiler alert* they were right), even though my Day 1 lynch flipped Town.

I'd like you to commit to a position on Flame_, since he's the top wagon right now and you haven't said what you thought of him yet, opting instead to just attack the person leading the lynch on him.

EDIT: Ninja'd

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

Flame has been pretty inactive and his comment on the day of CF's lynch was interesting and yes he's been neutral but he's following the opinion of town it looks like and seems as though he doesn't think for himself. In the least he answers when asked questions, which I find to be a good move though it means nothing really. Overall I don't see him as scum right now.

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

Flame has been pretty inactive and his comment on the day of CF's lynch was interesting and yes he's been neutral but he's following the opinion of town it looks like and seems as though he doesn't think for himself. In the least he answers when asked questions, which I find to be a good move though it means nothing really. Overall I don't see him as scum right now.

So is that a null-read or a town-read?

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 3 4/12/13

Flame has been pretty inactive and his comment on the day of CF's lynch was interesting and yes he's been neutral but he's following the opinion of town it looks like and seems as though he doesn't think for himself. In the least he answers when asked questions, which I find to be a good move though it means nothing really. Overall I don't see him as scum right now.

That made no sense whatsoever.

By keeping your vote on Master Mew, you are indirectly saying that he's more likely to be scum than Flame_. He has countered your weak case completely, and with this post you have ignored to continue to support it. You say he followed the opinion of Town, which I think is referring to his vote on CrackFox. It happens to be that Master Mew voted Crackfox before him, so with that you can say that he has followed Master Mew's opinion, of Town. He didn't answer mine despite looking at the thread. What about his case is weaker than yours of Master Mew?