Werewolf -- Endgame, Town Victory -- 5/8/13

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Mutha'uckas
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

I question how much intel a lynch provides when 6 people vote with no real discussion. What exactly seems scummy to you about Sourcandy in this game?
This game in particular? The usual vagueness and lack of defense.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

I question how much intel a lynch provides when 6 people vote with no real discussion. What exactly seems scummy to you about Sourcandy in this game?
This game in particular? The usual vagueness and lack of defense.
What kind of information do you think we could gain from lynching her?
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

What kind of information do you think we could gain from lynching her?
Well for starters, if she was found innocent I'd question you for starting the lynch without a reason. Now that you're being so defensive I'm starting to wonder if you voted her as joke between mafia buddies, then panicked when you realised you'd started a bandwagon against her so you're now you're back-tracking and making out like lynching her is dumb. Which is it? Why the sudden change of heart and why did you vote her in the first place? You voted her without even a few sentences of explanation and changed your vote without explanation. FOS: TheMissingno and SourCandy

My vote on SC still stands.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

What kind of information do you think we could gain from lynching her?
Well for starters, if she was found innocent I'd question you for starting the lynch without a reason. Now that you're being so defensive I'm starting to wonder if you voted her as joke between mafia buddies, then panicked when you realised you'd started a bandwagon against her so you're now you're back-tracking and making out like lynching her is dumb. Which is it? Why the sudden change of heart and why did you vote her in the first place? You voted her without even a few sentences of explanation and changed your vote without explanation. FOS: TheMissingno and SourCandy

My vote on SC still stands.
I voted her to get the ball rolling with the game. You can think I panicked if you want, but that would be kind of dumb. Why would I keep a vote that has no evidence now that I can see the reactions of several players? Only a fool would.

First of all, I'm not a politician, I'm not afraid of being accused of flip flopping, especially when it's the first day. There have been pages of arguments in countless games over whether or not random voting is okay, and regardless of whether or not it is there is evidence now, so random votes should be rethought.

Second of all, I'm not really sure what your definition of "defensive" is if you think that's the way I was acting.

Third of all, you first said that you'd accuse me if she was innocent because I started the lynch without reason, then you go on to criticize me for changing my vote.

Fourth of all, I never said that lynching her was dumb. What I said was that I question how much information we can get out of a bandwagon from a random vote with no real discussion (I don't think we can get very much, if not any, info from that btw, and we'll probably just end up with a dead townie). I questioned you about that trying to find a reason not to vote you, but all you really responded with was a bunch of OMGUS, self contradiction and word twisting. Therefore I'm keeping my vote for now.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

I questioned you about that trying to find a reason not to vote you, but all you really responded with was a bunch of OMGUS, self contradiction and word twisting. Therefore I'm keeping my vote for now.
Voting someone to get the ball rolling is not a sufficient reason. Out of everyone you could have picked to 'get the ball rolling' you chose her. I think there could be an underlying reason for that but I guess we'll find out in the end. No lynches are tedious in small games where players tend to stagnate anyway. That's probably why the rules state that a lynch must happen everyday. When someone dies, even if they are town, it opens up a new avenue of conversation/speculation. As I said, if SC was lynched and found to be innocent I would have called you out anyway, especially since you didn't state the reason for voting and starting this bandwagon. SC always seems suspicious, while others, like we're doing now, have it out in thread with long winding responses and arguments, she tends to post sporadically and keeps her post vague. Those are some reasons for jumping on the bandwagon, the main reason is because we have to lynch someone.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

I'll wait for some other players to chime in instead of responding to that since you literally just repeated the same points that I already responded to.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

1. Every vote should be treated as a wagon, unless you did not intend for for anyone to follow your initial vote, in which case I would have to wonder aloud why you bothered to place a vote at all.

2. I had a mild scum-read from her self-vote, which read as an attempt to pre-empt the potential wagon (because voting for someone with two votes on them already during Day 1 on Bulba is the devil, of course) but it wasn't anything to be alarmed over - it was more than I had for anyone else at the time, however, thus the vote. I pulled my vote as soon as a better suspect presented themself. Did you have a reason to believe she was not Town?

3. Ice cold.

What makes Crackfox ever so slightly scummier in your mind than Yatagarasu? I would have reversed those reads.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

1. Every vote should be treated as a wagon, unless you did not intend for for anyone to follow your initial vote, in which case I would have to wonder aloud why you bothered to place a vote at all.
To get the game started. Hey look, it worked.

2. I had a mild scum-read from her self-vote, which read as an attempt to pre-empt the potential wagon (because voting for someone with two votes on them already during Day 1 on Bulba is the devil, of course) but it wasn't anything to be alarmed over - it was more than I had for anyone else at the time, however, thus the vote. I pulled my vote as soon as a better suspect presented themself. Did you have a reason to believe she was not Town?
No, not at all.

What makes Crackfox ever so slightly scummier in your mind than Yatagarasu? I would have reversed those reads.
Mostly the false vote justification. While it maybe open to interpretation, the statement "SC always seems scummy to me" seems a lot like meta to me. That combined with the "a failed lynch can still provide intel" justification makes her seem scummier to me. Yes a failed lynch can provide intel, but not if everyone just votes the person off right off the bat without any discussion.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

@adiosToreador; @Phoenicks; Feralize is now known as Mutie.

I questioned you about that trying to find a reason not to vote you, but all you really responded with was a bunch of OMGUS, self contradiction and word twisting. Therefore I'm keeping my vote for now.
Voting someone to get the ball rolling is not a sufficient reason. Out of everyone you could have picked to 'get the ball rolling' you chose her. I think there could be an underlying reason for that but I guess we'll find out in the end. No lynches are tedious in small games where players tend to stagnate anyway. That's probably why the rules state that a lynch must happen everyday. When someone dies, even if they are town, it opens up a new avenue of conversation/speculation. As I said, if SC was lynched and found to be innocent I would have called you out anyway, especially since you didn't state the reason for voting and starting this bandwagon. SC always seems suspicious, while others, like we're doing now, have it out in thread with long winding responses and arguments, she tends to post sporadically and keeps her post vague. Those are some reasons for jumping on the bandwagon, the main reason is because we have to lynch someone.
So you think she's suspicious but don't want to lynch her? And if we go along with that contradiction and she is a bad choice for a lynch, do you have any better ideas?

Do you have a real defense, or at least, an idea for a better lynch?

[mention removed]
1) You're third on the wagon, it wasn't really a wagon until you posted that because she voted herself (which could be playing against her win condition but I'm not the host so)
2) Do you have a reason to believe she's not town?
3) cool

Scum score: 4/10
I don't think it matters much at this point if she is or isn't playing to her win condition, if she gets herself lynched this phase she's out of the game anyway.

Do you have any reason to believe that Sourcandy is town?

Vote: Sourcandy
I will reconsider my vote if I hear from her or I change my mind.

Nobody else vote for Sourcandy - I'm the 5th vote on her, with 6 being a majority. We can drag this phase out for as long as it's useful so nobody prematurely end it.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

Mostly the false vote justification. While it maybe open to interpretation, the statement "SC always seems scummy to me" seems a lot like meta to me.
It is Meta, but Meta isn't scummy - Meta is information. More information is never a bad thing, it's only the way that you use Meta that can cause it to become scummy - what is it about the way CrackFox was utilizing Meta that seemed scum-motivated to you?

(Aside: I'm not telling you anything new here, I suspect, so I'm left to wonder why you dropped the word "Meta" in there like it was a blanket scumtell when you knew it wasn't, other than to exploit Bulba's site meta).

That combined with the "a failed lynch can still provide intel" justification makes her seem scummier to me. Yes a failed lynch can provide intel, but not if everyone just votes the person off right off the bat without any discussion.
I agree with this.

Nobody else vote for Sourcandy - I'm the 5th vote on her, with 6 being a majority. We can drag this phase out for as long as it's useful so nobody prematurely end it.
Actually I believe you're the fourth vote on Sourcandy, as TheMissingno. and I both unvoted her.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

@Mutie; What exactly do I have to defend against? I can't defend if there's no accusation
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

@Master Mew; I see your point and honestly find your vote justified. I have no defense and am probably about to look more scummy with my unvote

UNVOTE: Sourcandy

Meanwhile
@Paperhorse; @Flame_; @Flaze; @HumanDawn;

Hi you guys have been quiet in your thoughts so far. Mind sharing them?
 
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Mutha'uckas
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

@Mutie; What exactly do I have to defend against? I can't defend if there's no accusation
That's true but you could at least try and reason with people and encourage them to change their vote. It would probably prove futile, true but if it was me (which it kinda is) or Missy or Mew, I just know we'd be more vocal about it. It seems like you are always trying to avoid situations of confrontation, which does strike me as scummy. I'm not saying that you are. In all honesty, I couldn't call it either way, but we have to lynch someone and you are not doing a very good job of convincing the thread that it shouldn't be you at the minute.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

@Mutie; What exactly do I have to defend against? I can't defend if there's no accusation
The best defense is a good offense. If you don't want to be lynched today, persuade the thread that someone else should be lynched today - a convenient side-effect of lynching someone else is that it necessarily means that you are not lynched, all the while having managed to accomplish this without addressing the non-existent accusations against you.

Who is your top suspect so far and why? If we lynched someone right now, who do you think would have the highest likelihood of flipping scum?
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

I have no opinion right now and don't really know who to vote for yet xD
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

I have no opinion right now and don't really know who to vote for yet xD
Anyone look even a little suspicious to you? Who and why?

Anyone look innocent to you? Who and why?
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

Meanwhile
@Paperhorse; @Flame_; @Flaze; @HunanDawn;

Hi you guys have been quiet in your thoughts so far. Mind sharing them?
Hi. I worked 11 hours today and I can't access the Internet at work therefore I didn't have time to really properly read the thread and form any opinions. I like to put serious thoughts in my posts, so you need to give me more time to catch up.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

While I'll withhold my vote for now, just so the phase continues.

If I had to state one way or another, I'd say that obviously nothing is directly pointing at Sour, at least the chain got the game going.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

While I'll withhold my vote for now, just so the phase continues.

If I had to state one way or another, I'd say that obviously nothing is directly pointing at Sour, at least the chain got the game going.
Question: If voting got the game going, how will not voting keep the game going?

Since you said you're withholding your vote, who are you withholding it from?
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

Question: If voting got the game going, how will not voting keep the game going?

Since you said you're withholding your vote, who are you withholding it from?
Because, if by the previous count. Should I vote for Sour, then she would be lynched, ending the phase.

Sour, unless something else comes up.
 
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