Werewolf -- Endgame, Town Victory -- 5/8/13

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

Sour, unless something else comes up.

I don't understand:

If I had to state one way or another, I'd say that obviously nothing is directly pointing at Sour, at least the chain got the game going.

 

[DerMißingno]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

It is Meta, but Meta isn't scummy - Meta is information. More information is never a bad thing, it's only the way that you use Meta that can cause it to become scummy - what is it about the way CrackFox was utilizing Meta that seemed scum-motivated to you?

It's not the fact that she used meta, it's the fact that it's irrelevant and therefore false justification for her vote. Okay, so Sourcandy always seems scummy, fine. Is she always scum? If the answer is "no" (which it is) then it's false justification.

 

[Flaze]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

Thing is that no matter what I say or do people still won't agree xD as you said before during the first phase you can either hit or miss.

Well if I were to vote I'll have to go for for...

VOTE: TheMissingno


The reason I vote for him is because he's the one that first one to vote for Sourcandy, even if it was to get things going or a joke it was still a vote, even if he ended up changing it later. Then there's the fact he judged Crack Fox and voted for him/her suddenly, I can understand that he had suspicions on her but I think that you should at least let the other person answer before you end up voting for them.

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

It's not the fact that she used meta, it's the fact that it's irrelevant and therefore false justification for her vote. Okay, so Sourcandy always seems scummy, fine. Is she always scum? If the answer is "no" (which it is) then it's false justification.

Fair enough. Does it not pale in comparison to Yatagarasu actually providing justification for not voting for Sourcandy and then doing it anyway, though?

 

[DerMißingno]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

It's not the fact that she used meta, it's the fact that it's irrelevant and therefore false justification for her vote. Okay, so Sourcandy always seems scummy, fine. Is she always scum? If the answer is "no" (which it is) then it's false justification.

Fair enough. Does it not pale in comparison to Yatagarasu actually providing justification for not voting for Sourcandy and then doing it anyway, though?

No, it doesn't really. It's a bit more subtle than Yata's contradiction, but they both strike me as scummy. However Cracky's subsequent posts raise her scum score for me so I'm keeping my vote on her.

Thing is that no matter what I say or do people still won't agree xD as you said before during the first phase you can either hit or miss.

Well if I were to vote I'll have to go for for...

VOTE: TheMissingno


The reason I vote for him is because he's the one that first one to vote for Sourcandy,

How dare I.

Then there's the fact he judged Crack Fox and voted for him/her suddenly, I can understand that he had suspicions on her but I think that you should at least let the other person answer before you end up voting for them.

People tend to respond more seriously when they have a vote on them.

That's all I'll say in response to this baseless silliness.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

To be honest, I'm more in the mood of observing what's going on than analyzing and doing much in this serious stage of Day 1. None of the wagons are strong enough to justify a vote on them in my opinion. I do have some things I really want to say, though.

Phoenix Wright: Justice For All ~ Examination (Moderato) Extended - YouTube

Yatagarasu: That's not just meta (which is not, incidentally, inherently bad), that's applying someone else's self-meta (which is, incidentally, inherently unreliable) - it also suggests that the game's roles were not RNG'd, as if they were, the object of your meta-analysis (role distribution) would be exempt anyway.

@Yatagarasu; You were kidding about your vote on TheMissingno. right? When I saw the vote I saw no need to explain why it was flawed. It looked like a random vote to me, so explaining its invalidity was pointless. There was nothing that gave me the impression that it was a serious vote made in a playful way, which makes me ask you Master Mew what you saw in it that was serious enough that it made you bother to explain why the vote on TheMissingno. was so flawed in the first place.

Now that you're being so defensive

Where did you get this impression in the first place?

Voting someone to get the ball rolling is not a sufficient reason. Out of everyone you could have picked to 'get the ball rolling' you chose her.

It was the beginning of Day 1. You've done it plenty of times too. You chose her to get the ball rolling too.

especially since you didn't state the reason for voting and starting this bandwagon.

It's Day 1. You don't need to justify your vote on somebody while the phase isn't serious.

SC always seems suspicious, while others, like we're doing now, have it out in thread with long winding responses and arguments, she tends to post sporadically and keeps her post vague. Those are some reasons for jumping on the bandwagon, the main reason is because we have to lynch someone.

Does this mean that you'll always vote her in every game that she's in in Day 1?

Yes a failed lynch can provide intel, but not if everyone just votes the person off right off the bat without any discussion.

You could use them voting a person with no discussion as information later on in regards to their behavior later in the game maybe.

So you think she's suspicious but don't want to lynch her? And if we go along with that contradiction and she is a bad choice for a lynch, do you have any better ideas?

What contradiction? Where did she say or imply that she's suspicious but doesn't want to lynch her?

I don't think it matters much at this point if she is or isn't playing to her win condition, if she gets herself lynched this phase she's out of the game anyway.

Well, there could be some underlying reason. One I came up with is that she could be the Innocent Child, waiting to see who would vote her just to gather information, just to then make Phoenicks confirm her innocence. Interestingly enough, she kept her vote on herself, like as if she doesn't really care about the amount of votes on her. That's a town tell for me.

Do you have any reason to believe that Sourcandy is town?

Vote: Sourcandy
I will reconsider my vote if I hear from her or I change my mind.

What does your mind have exactly? You didn't say why you placed your vote on her, because for all we know they could be for different reasons, or similar ones. Is it because we need a lynch? Do you have any reason to believe she's Mafia?

Nobody else vote for Sourcandy - I'm the 5th vote on her, with 6 being a majority. We can drag this phase out for as long as it's useful so nobody prematurely end it.

You know this while her vote is still on herself.

Interesting.

Plus, by voting her, thinking that she needs one more vote to get her lynched, brings in the risk that someone would disagree with prematurely ending the phase and just vote her.

Hi. I worked 11 hours today and I can't access the Internet at work therefore I didn't have time to really properly read the thread and form any opinions. I like to put serious thoughts in my posts, so you need to give me more time to catch up.

When do you think you'll have enough time to catch up?

I don't think that's much of an excuse when I recall you posted what you think with your job too, but then you could just be busier now having more things to take care of.

Sour, unless something else comes up.

To add on what Master Mew said, why vote Sourcandy then?

It's not the fact that she used meta, it's the fact that it's irrelevant and therefore false justification for her vote. Okay, so Sourcandy always seems scummy, fine. Is she always scum? If the answer is "no" (which it is) then it's false justification.

I think it could be because she views her scummyness from her viewpoint as a distraction, so it's better to just lynch her now instead of later because of how harmfully distracting her scummyness could be later on in the game if she's Town. I think it's similar to lynching inactives just because their inactivity could do the same thing, which isn't the best of logic.

Thing is that no matter what I say or do people still won't agree xD as you said before during the first phase you can either hit or miss.

They won't if they don't agree with your justification and opinion, but then there's no harm in sharing it. Don't be afraid of sharing your thoughts. Even if you're wrong, it's just a game in the end. That's for every Day Phase in my opinion.

The reason I vote for him is because he's the one that first one to vote for Sourcandy, even if it was to get things going or a joke it was still a vote, even if he ended up changing it later. Then there's the fact he judged Crack Fox and voted for him/her suddenly, I can understand that he had suspicions on her but I think that you should at least let the other person answer before you end up voting for them.

How does that justify your vote? How is that any different than you voting him now without letting him answer to your reasons why you think he's most likely to be scum?(I take it you voted him for that reason; because he's scum and nothing else.) What's so bad about just voting the person you just asked questions immediately before letting them respond?

---

With my post now that means every player has posted at least once in the thread, and thus two of who have already posted are Mafia. I'm not sure who to vote yet, but I think I will be when there's more posts and with more time.
@Zima; What do you have to say now?

 

[CrackFox]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

It was the beginning of Day 1. You've done it plenty of times too. You chose her to get the ball rolling too.

Mostly true but there is other elements to it. As i've already stated.

Where did you get this impression in the first place?

The sudden switch from casual joking to analysing everything I said as if it mattered more than it did.

Does this mean that you'll always vote her in every game that she's in in Day 1?

Of course not but in another situation where we have to lynch someone and she's on the copping table anyway, then yes. I'm sure me and others would have been open to changing our vote by now if she's of spoken up a little.

To be honest, I'm more in the mood of observing what's going on than analyzing and doing much in this serious stage of Day 1.

To be honest with you Human, that sounds like bs to me. You do know that we have to lynch someone? It sucks for SC that it's her but there's nothing else to go on. She's likely as guilty or innocent as the rest of us if you don't have private information. You're protesting way too much for something that is inevitable. That post probably took a long time to put together and write and in the scheme of the rules, it's pointless for a townie to care that much for someone they don't know the allience of.

I don't know about anyone else but this post has made me think...

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

@Yatagarasu; You were kidding about your vote on TheMissingno. right? When I saw the vote I saw no need to explain why it was flawed. It looked like a random vote to me, so explaining its invalidity was pointless. There was nothing that gave me the impression that it was a serious vote made in a playful way, which makes me ask you Master Mew what you saw in it that was serious enough that it made you bother to explain why the vote on TheMissingno. was so flawed in the first place.

When attempting to create serious discussion, it generally helps to do so by discussing things seriously. I agree that her vote was framed to look like a joke, but the whole purpose of RVS on Day 1 is to catch Scum trying to slip into the masses. The vote may or may not have been a joke, but the way it detracted from the Sourcandy wagon was no laughing matter and looked like more than a coincidence to me - and as it turns out, I was right, she was opposed to the Sourcandy wagon.

The better question is, since Yatagarasu never said it was a joke, why are you speaking for her?

 

[Paperhorse]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

Hi. I worked 11 hours today and I can't access the Internet at work therefore I didn't have time to really properly read the thread and form any opinions. I like to put serious thoughts in my posts, so you need to give me more time to catch up.

When do you think you'll have enough time to catch up?

I don't think that's much of an excuse when I recall you posted what you think with your job too, but then you could just be busier now having more things to take care of.

Right now, actually. I just needed a good night’s sleep. I like not having to worry about deadlines.

I did a vote count so I could keep track more easily:

Sourcandy: 3 (Sourcandy, CrackFox, Mutie)
TheMissingno: 1 (Flaze)
No Lynch: 1 (Zima)
Yatagarasu: 1 (Master Mew)
CrackFox: 1 (TheMissingno,)

(I might have missed something someone please correct if this is wrong.)


At this point, I don’t think there has been a solid case on anyone. However, I do find CrackFox a bit suspicious as she calls out Missy for starting a bandwagon on Sourcandy, but jumps on the bandwagon anyway. I think her reasoning is wrong for why Missy backed out of the lynch.

As for Yatagarasu:

@Master Mew; I see your point and honestly find your vote justified. I have no defense and am probably about to look more scummy with my unvote

Hmmm, this is a rather “defeatist” attitude from you (for lack of a better term). I’m not sure what to think since you usually get more defensive. Maybe it’s just me, though. xD

Vote: Crackfox
Between Yatagarasu and CrackFox, I think she would be the better lynch.

Thing is that no matter what I say or do people still won't agree xD as you said before during the first phase you can either hit or miss.

Well if I were to vote I'll have to go for for...

VOTE: TheMissingno


The reason I vote for him is because he's the one that first one to vote for Sourcandy, even if it was to get things going or a joke it was still a vote, even if he ended up changing it later. Then there's the fact he judged Crack Fox and voted for him/her suddenly, I can understand that he had suspicions on her but I think that you should at least let the other person answer before you end up voting for them.

Honestly, that’s not really a solid reason to vote for someone either. I don’t think “he’s the first vote on sourcandy” constitutes as a reason to vote for someone at all. Also, he’s just gathering information by putting a vote on her.

As for Sourcandy herself, I have a null read on her.
@Foulcandy; what do you think of CrackFox’s opinion on you?

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

@Paperhorse; I unvoted Sourcandy which you actually have part of the quote in your post. On the note of it being a "deafeatist" attitude. Why should I be defensive over one vote which if someone else did the same thing I would have voted them for it.

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

It sucks for SC that it's her but there's nothing else to go on. She's likely as guilty or innocent as the rest of us if you don't have private information.

At this point, I don’t think there has been a solid case on anyone.

Where did this nasty rumor get started? I see two legitimate cases.

 

[Paperhorse]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

@Paperhorse; I unvoted Sourcandy which you actually have part of the quote in your post. On the note of it being a "deafeatist" attitude. Why should I be defensive over one vote which if someone else did the same thing I would have voted them for it.

Oops I meant Mutie, sorry about that. And I fixed it. And because it just struck me as you being a bit different.

 

[CrackFox]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

I'm not entirely sure why I was quoted Mew. I've pretty much said all I have to say about this. I'm not sure why people have such a problem with lynching SC. If not her, who do ya'll suggest instead?

 

[DerMißingno]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

I'm not entirely sure why I was quoted Mew. I've pretty much said all I have to say about this. I'm not sure why people have such a problem with lynching SC. If not her, who do ya'll suggest instead?

The problem we have with lynching SC is that there is no evidence against her.

I suggest lynching you, Master Mew suggests lynching Yata. I think that's been made pretty clear.

 

[CrackFox]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

The problem we have with lynching SC is that there is no evidence against her.

Right, and what is this 'evidence' you have against me?

To be honest, I don't mind who gets lynched today since it's completely random for me as a townie with no intel.

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

The problem we have with lynching SC is that there is no evidence against her.

Right, and what is this 'evidence' you have against me?

To be honest, I don't mind who gets lynched today since it's completely random for me as a townie with no intel.

So you wouldn't mind if we lynched you?

 

[DerMißingno]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

The problem we have with lynching SC is that there is no evidence against her.

Right, and what is this 'evidence' you have against me?

To be honest, I don't mind who gets lynched today since it's completely random for me as a townie with no intel.

I've gone over that several times, people can just scroll up if they want to see.

 

[CrackFox]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

So you wouldn't mind if we lynched you?

Obviously I'd prefer you to lynch somebody else because I like taking part for as long as possible.

I've gone over that several times, people can just scroll up if they want to see.

You don't owe me a reason for your vote on me but I am curious to know why there is 'evidence' to go on for it. I'm not trying to convince you to change it though. Keep it if you feel like it's the right one.

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

Reasons for players that are being voted. Tell me if I missed anything:

CrackFox: Is voting Sourcandy just because she acts scummy in every game she is in.

Yatagarasu: Says is against voting Sourcandy then votes her upon being reminded No lynch is not an option then unvoted her when action was pointed out.

Sourcandy: Voted self and is not defending herself really.

TheMissingno: First to vote Sourcandy

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

To be honest, I don't mind who gets lynched today since it's completely random for me as a townie with no intel.

I'm not proposing a random lynch, though (and neither is TheMissingno. but I don't expect you to sheep his vote for you, of course). In post #39 I explained why I was voting for Yatagarasu; that isn't a random vote, that's a reasoned vote that accounts for available evidence. Why should we wait for Day 2 to start scumhunting, and if you really have resigned to a random lynch today, why not lynch someone there is a case against rather than lynching someone there is no case against?

It's not so much a question of why other people are opposed to the Sourcandy wagon as it is a question of why you prefer to randomly lynch Sourcandy when other, non-random alternatives have been suggested.