Werewolf -- Endgame, Town Victory -- 5/8/13

[CrackFox]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

It's not so much a question of why other people are opposed to the Sourcandy wagon as it is a question of why you prefer to randomly lynch Sourcandy when other, non-random alternatives have been suggested.

The only reason I voted for SC was because there was already a lynch bandwagon against her. As I have said, I don't care who gets lynched (obviously I care if I get lynched because the game would end for me) if there was a mass vote against you I would have gone with it. Why? Because it's day one, without grasping at ridiculous reasoning we HAVE to lynch someone and whoever we choose the risk of lynching an innocent player will remain exactly the same, that's just the situation we find ourselves in. In hindsight we have had a successful first day, all this debating has given me quite a few suspicians, but that's all they are right now so I'm gonna keep my vote on whomever has the majority votes, and hope we get lucky. Hopefully by the next voting phase I will have enough reasons to vote a player in confidence, but right now, I don't.

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

Please explain why my case against Yatagarasu is flawed and undeserving of your vote - given that she herself admitted it was not flawed and was deserving of my vote.

If you're going to call all the options on the table "ridiculous reasoning" please be prepared to explain why.

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

@CrackFox; Mind sharing your suspicions with everyone else?

 

[CrackFox]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

A.) Yatagarasu believes voting for someone without evidence hurts the Town.

B.) Yatagarasu voted for someone without evidence.

Therefore:

C.) Yatagarasu believes she is hurting the Town.

This being your reasoning for voting Yata? I'm guessing you've never contradicted yourself in a mafia game before then? Nothing that Yata has said or done so far has struck me as scummy. Nor SC though I said, I only voted her to jump on the bandwagon. As a side not I did point out that SC avoided conversation which is quite a scummy thing to do, something which you also called Yata out for doing. We're all grasping at straws at this point, that is my point.

@CrackFox; Mind sharing your suspicions with everyone else?

I don't know anything you guys don't. I'm simply making assumptions from all the posts in thread so far. Right now, if you want me to give a name, I'd say HumanDawn was displaying the most scummy behavior. Refering to that long post in which he tried to contradict everyone on their SC vote. I don't see why a townie who doesn't know anything would be so passionate about saving a random player at this point. A player that has as much chance of being scum as the next person.

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

I didn't vote her for contradicting herself, I voted her for doing things that she believed would hurt the Town - that is the definition of Scum, I don't really see the disconnect here.

You've already explained why you originally voted for Sourcandy and I understand that, what I'm asking is why you're still voting for her when you called it random and there are now non-random options on the table.

EDIT: Before this thread devolves into Mew vs CrackFox: The above question applies to anyone voting for Sourcandy, as well as for anyone who does not currently have an active vote placed.

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

My vote is not placed because for now I am watching and still thinking. I made mistake earlier and I don't want to perform another move that can hurt the town.

 

[Pariah]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

I voted myself just to see how people would react to it. quite simple really. I don't have much time right now to read everything since I last posted, but I will later tonight and then, and only then you'll get something from me.

 

[CrackFox]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

I didn't vote her for contradicting herself, I voted her for doing things that she believed would hurt the Town - that is the definition of Scum, I don't really see the disconnect here.

She said doing it would hurt the town, then went and did it anyway. That is a contradiction. That strikes me as more of a confused player than a scummy one. Scummy ones are usually together and careful with their posts.

You've already explained why you originally voted for Sourcandy and I understand that, what I'm asking is why you're still voting for her when you called it random and there are now non-random options on the table.

I don't see any non-random options. If I thought it would stick, i'd start a lynch against HumanDawn but I know it wouldn't, so there's no point in me trying to vote him when it wouldn't achieve anything.

 

[Master Mew]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

Why Humandawn? You can only know if you try.

 

[DerMißingno]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

I don't know anything you guys don't. I'm simply making assumptions from all the posts in thread so far. Right now, if you want me to give a name, I'd say HumanDawn was displaying the most scummy behavior. Refering to that long post in which he tried to contradict everyone on their SC vote. I don't see why a townie who doesn't know anything would be so passionate about saving a random player at this point. A player that has as much chance of being scum as the next person.

>suspects HumanDawn
>doesn't suspect Sourcandy
>votes Sourcandy
>mfw

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

To be honest, I'm more in the mood of observing what's going on than analyzing and doing much in this serious stage of Day 1.

To be honest with you Human, that sounds like bs to me. You do know that we have to lynch someone?

Yes, I do. Six votes are needed, and I'm not really required to be a voter to let the lynch happen. That doesn't mean that I won't vote at all. That's why I then said that if I found a case to be strong enough I'd vote. I'm just not in the mood to think a lot of what's going on in the game. I really need to get to studying more for my English Exam coming up later this April and other things.

You're protesting way too much for something that is inevitable. That post probably took a long time to put together and write and in the scheme of the rules, it's pointless for a townie to care that much for someone they don't know the allience of.

I'm up for lynching somebody as long as it's justified, and I can protest how unjustified a vote is on somebody and care about others because they could be Town. If I didn't care then I could possibly be letting a Townie die. Scum could be in the wagon aiming for an easy lynch. This isn't anything new from me.
@Master Mew;

Fair enough, and it did move the phase to the right direction.

Well, she didn't point it out.

She said doing it would hurt the town, then went and did it anyway. That is a contradiction. That strikes me as more of a confused player than a scummy one. Scummy ones are usually together and careful with their posts.

But then why do you think she was confused then?

At the moment, I'm inclined to vote Yatagarasu, but first I want to hear more from others.
@Zima;

What do you think so far?
@Mutie;

I'm still waiting for a response to tell me of the contradiction.

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

On the note of my contradiction I wasn't confused but I don't know what I was thinking. I wasn't feeling well that day but not feeling well is no excuse.

 

[DerMißingno]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

Spoiler

1. @Yatagarasu;
2. @Paperhorse;
3. @HumanDawn;
4. @CrackFox;
5. @TheMissingno.;
6. @Zima;
7. @Sourcandy;
8. @Flame_;
9. @Master Mew;
10. @Feralize;
11. @Flaze;

Those of you who have not voted, it's time that you made a decision. We have over two pages of posts, which should be plenty of information for you to go on. This phase has been going on for 5 days, it's time we wrapped it up.

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

Looking at the current possibilities I still don't see Sourcandy as a viable lynch and CrackFox's actions are striking me as anti-town right now so

VOTE: CrackFox

 

[Zima]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

Yatagarasu doesn't seem to be making her own opinions, and is just following what other people say. To me, and with that, I will

Unvote: No lynch

Vote: Yatagarasu

CrackFox, in my opinion, also looks scummy, but I feel one of the mafiosi is more likely to be in Yatagarasu right now. I could be wrong, but I feel as though it's one or the other.

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

@Zima; What are your thoughts on everyone else?

 

[Flaze]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

Actually I did vote already.

 

[Zima]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

@Zima; What are your thoughts on everyone else?

I think Master Mew looks pro-town, but he always does. XD TheMissingno., from his pushing for the day phase to end and the night phase to start is looking slightly anti-town to me. He's mafia most of the time anyway, so I don't know why we didn't vote him in the first place. XD

 

[DerMißingno]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

@Zima; What are your thoughts on everyone else?

I think Master Mew looks pro-town, but he always does. XD TheMissingno., from his pushing for the day phase to end and the night phase to start is looking slightly anti-town to me. He's mafia most of the time anyway, so I don't know why we didn't vote him in the first place. XD

You realize it's been 5 days already, right?

 

[Feralize]

Re: Werewolf -- Day 1 3/31/13

Nobody else vote for Sourcandy - I'm the 5th vote on her, with 6 being a majority. We can drag this phase out for as long as it's useful so nobody prematurely end it.

Actually I believe you're the fourth vote on Sourcandy, as TheMissingno. and I both unvoted her.

Apologies for the error.

@Mutie; What exactly do I have to defend against? I can't defend if there's no accusation

Any sort of defense, including a counter-wagon would have been an option. Not responding at all is not helpful in the least.

I voted myself just to see how people would react to it. quite simple really. I don't have much time right now to read everything since I last posted, but I will later tonight and then, and only then you'll get something from me.

Why don't you share your opinions on the various reactions you got or tell us your reads?

The reason I vote for him is because he's the one that first one to vote for Sourcandy, even if it was to get things going or a joke it was still a vote, even if he ended up changing it later.

So you think he's scummy for being the first person to do something? If someone else had voted first, would you find them scummy for it as well?

To be honest, I'm more in the mood of observing what's going on than analyzing and doing much in this serious stage of Day 1. None of the wagons are strong enough to justify a vote on them in my opinion.

Exactly what kind of evidence are you hoping to have on Day 1? Analyzing posts and developing reads can be very useful.
So, what have you observed?

So you think she's suspicious but don't want to lynch her? And if we go along with that contradiction and she is a bad choice for a lynch, do you have any better ideas?

What contradiction? Where did she say or imply that she's suspicious but doesn't want to lynch her?

Here's the post:

Voting someone to get the ball rolling is not a sufficient reason. Out of everyone you could have picked to 'get the ball rolling' you chose her. I think there could be an underlying reason for that but I guess we'll find out in the end. No lynches are tedious in small games where players tend to stagnate anyway. That's probably why the rules state that a lynch must happen everyday. When someone dies, even if they are town, it opens up a new avenue of conversation/speculation. As I said, if SC was lynched and found to be innocent I would have called you out anyway, especially since you didn't state the reason for voting and starting this bandwagon. SC always seems suspicious, while others, like we're doing now, have it out in thread with long winding responses and arguments, she tends to post sporadically and keeps her post vague. Those are some reasons for jumping on the bandwagon, the main reason is because we have to lynch someone.

The bolded statements make it sound pretty clear (at least to me) that she is against lynching SC, or at least the bandwagon. But in the underlined statement, she says that SC always seems suspicious to her. If someone always seems suspicious to you, why would you be against lynching them?

I don't think it matters much at this point if she is or isn't playing to her win condition, if she gets herself lynched this phase she's out of the game anyway.

Well, there could be some underlying reason. One I came up with is that she could be the Innocent Child, waiting to see who would vote her just to gather information, just to then make Phoenicks confirm her innocence. Interestingly enough, she kept her vote on herself, like as if she doesn't really care about the amount of votes on her. That's a town tell for me.

Not being especially productive doesn't seem very town to me. Plus, your idea of why she voted herself doesn't seem to be valid; she did state why she voted herself and I replied to it above.

Do you have any reason to believe that Sourcandy is town?

Vote: Sourcandy
I will reconsider my vote if I hear from her or I change my mind.

What does your mind have exactly? You didn't say why you placed your vote on her, because for all we know they could be for different reasons, or similar ones. Is it because we need a lynch? Do you have any reason to believe she's Mafia?

I figured that if I put a little more pressure on her, she might be a little more inclined to respond. Apparently I was incorrect.
I do have a minor scumtell on her because of her general unwillingness to participate. However, she may be busy with other things, which is why it's minor.

Nobody else vote for Sourcandy - I'm the 5th vote on her, with 6 being a majority. We can drag this phase out for as long as it's useful so nobody prematurely end it.

You know this while her vote is still on herself.

Interesting.

Plus, by voting her, thinking that she needs one more vote to get her lynched, brings in the risk that someone would disagree with prematurely ending the phase and just vote her.

Again, I miscounted. It's not a huge issue, and Master Mew addressed that directly after my post.
If someone did disagree and ended the phase early, I'd count that as a scumtell, because no townie with sense would end the phase prematurely and hinder our progress. But since my count was incorrect anyway, that's a moot point.

Vote: Crackfox
Between Yatagarasu and CrackFox, I think she would be the better lynch.

Why do you think CrackFox would be the better lynch?

I don't see any non-random options. If I thought it would stick, i'd start a lynch against HumanDawn but I know it wouldn't, so there's no point in me trying to vote him when it wouldn't achieve anything.

So us analyzing posts, asking questions, sharing our thoughts, and doing our best to develop a reasoned lynch is no better than a random lynch?

I'm up for lynching somebody as long as it's justified, and I can protest how unjustified a vote is on somebody and care about others because they could be Town. If I didn't care then I could possibly be letting a Townie die. Scum could be in the wagon aiming for an easy lynch. This isn't anything new from me.

What, in your opinion, makes a lynch justified enough? Why are the current options not justified enough?

@Mutie;

I'm still waiting for a response to tell me of the contradiction.

Apologies for not replying sooner.

It's not so much a question of why other people are opposed to the Sourcandy wagon as it is a question of why you prefer to randomly lynch Sourcandy when other, non-random alternatives have been suggested.

The only reason I voted for SC was because there was already a lynch bandwagon against her. As I have said, I don't care who gets lynched (obviously I care if I get lynched because the game would end for me) if there was a mass vote against you I would have gone with it. Why? Because it's day one, without grasping at ridiculous reasoning we HAVE to lynch someone and whoever we choose the risk of lynching an innocent player will remain exactly the same, that's just the situation we find ourselves in. In hindsight we have had a successful first day, all this debating has given me quite a few suspicians, but that's all they are right now so I'm gonna keep my vote on whomever has the majority votes, and hope we get lucky. Hopefully by the next voting phase I will have enough reasons to vote a player in confidence, but right now, I don't.

You're obviously willing to bandwagon for little to no reason (SC being voted by others is a poor reason; you claim to be willing to go along with any other player's bandwagon and claim you don't care who is lynched unless it's you).

We do have a lower risk of lynching innocents, at least in theory, because after RVS we provide reasons for voting and dispute reasons we disagree with.

These statements don't sit well with me at all, especially the first. The town has to cooperate, and sheeping bandwagons just because "it's Day 1 and we have to lynch" gives me the strongest scumread so far. Combined with your apparent reluctance to bandwagon in this post, I'm going to

Unvote: Sourcandy
Vote: CrackFox