Werewolf -- Endgame, Town Victory -- 5/8/13

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Mutha'uckas
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

That's pretty much what happened, actually. Your first post after she flipped Town was to remind us that you thought Yatagarasu was innocent, and no one had questioned you about it yet.
As I already pointed out, that was a throw-away comment.

So you think I defended Yata on purpose to make myself look innocent in the long run? In reality you kept saying that I should be placing my vote on someone we had evidence on. I said we had evidence on no one, and you brought forward Yata's posts, to which I then said she sounded more like a confused townie than scum. Read it back. I didnt go through the game claiming anyone was innocent. You made me anaylse Yata's posts and I did.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

If you "didn't go through the game claiming anyone was innocent" then stop claiming you did in retrospect.

I just don't understand why you would even want to drop in and remind us that you voted for someone you didn't really suspect, like that's a towntell or something. When I analyze mislynches I look for votes like that to find Scum. Players who voted for someone and look like they genuinely did suspect them are more likely to look innocent to me, even though they were wrong about the player being Scum. Wrong =/= Scum, Right =/= Town.

If you think it was a "throw-away comment," why did you make it?

Vote: CrackFox

You seem more interested in distancing yourself from mislynches than finding scum.

Is HumanDawn still your top suspect, by the way?
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

If you think it was a "throw-away comment," why did you make it?
Are you serious? Everyone expresses their feelings after a lynch, whether it's happy or sad. I simply said, it sucks but I'm not surprised. If that is suspicious to you, there's nothing I can say to change your mind about that.
If you "didn't go through the game claiming anyone was innocent" then stop claiming you did in retrospect.
Because i'm being called out on it!!!!!! I wouldn't have even mentioned Yata again after her initial death, if you and others hadn't of brought her up.
Is HumanDawn still your top suspect, by the way?
No. His posts haven been quite neutral since I called him out. That might be a deliberate thing to make me less suspicious so I still have doubts about him. I've explained myself a million times and still, people like you and Mutie are still questioning me. Not you so much, because you've been outspoken and notably against my logic from day 1, but Mutie hasn't been saying much and instead of trying to debate with me, she seems like she's trying to just highlight me as the bad guy.

Vote: Mutie

Don't hesitate if you wanna lynch me. I kind of think the town is doomed anyway with the terrible logic and reads that people are getting. I'll just be happy to know I played with a level head throughout.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

and the Oscar for worst excuse ever goes to....
Be active before you make those kind of comments. Have you actually been reading the thread at all?
If you want Sourcandy to be active, why are you so harsh on her when she does participate?

Are you serious? Everyone expresses their feelings after a lynch, whether it's happy or sad. I simply said, it sucks but I'm not surprised. If that is suspicious to you, there's nothing I can say to change your mind about that.
Actually, almost all of the commentary besides yours was who voted whom/similar things and then discussion about the night phase.

I've explained myself a million times and still, people like you and Mutie are still questioning me. Not you so much, because you've been outspoken and notably against my logic from day 1, but Mutie hasn't been saying much and instead of trying to debate with me, she seems like she's trying to just highlight me as the bad guy.
However, I don't think that questioning you any more right now would do a lot of good; I'll likely hold off until the night has ended.
I did debate with you - I asked you questions and replied to your responses; I didn't construct a monologue. That's pretty much what a debate is.
I stopped questioning you at night to give you a bit of a break and to see the night results and go from there. And actually, Master Mew continued to question you after I did.

Re: bolded text - I disagreed with you Day 1 as well in this post.

Vote: Mutie

Don't hesitate if you wanna lynch me. I kind of think the town is doomed anyway with the terrible logic and reads that people are getting. I'll just be happy to know I played with a level head throughout.
I didn't hesitate. Last day phase, I voted you. I just woke up like 30 minutes ago.

VOTE: CrackFox

-You didn't care who was lynched last day, so long as it wasn't you.
-You tried to prove yourself as town because Yatagarasu ended up being town.
-You threw several accusations at me that simply aren't true.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

-You didn't care who was lynched last day, so long as it wasn't you.
-You tried to prove yourself as town because Yatagarasu ended up being town.
-You threw several accusations at me that simply aren't true.
Actually I said my voting would be random because I had no idea who was scum and who wasn't. We literally had to lynch someone so I had to choose someone. I didn't have a preference for who it was because my FOS wasn't on anyone at that point. You can take that 'not caring who is lynched' if you like. That is kind of twisting the situation but I expect no less.

-You tried to prove yourself as town because Yatagarasu ended up being town.
I've been over this a dozen times. I did not. When you discover i'm innocent it will prove I did not. I don't need to prove myself, I know I'm town. Whatever you guys want to think is up to you.
-You threw several accusations at me that simply aren't true.
Kettle, pot black xD

I expect no less than to be voted for right now. For everyone who doesn't. You can count yourself wise when it's revealed i'm actually innocent. Sheesh
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

-You didn't care who was lynched last day, so long as it wasn't you.
-You tried to prove yourself as town because Yatagarasu ended up being town.
-You threw several accusations at me that simply aren't true.
Actually I said my voting would be random because I had no idea who was scum and who wasn't. We literally had to lynch someone so I had to choose someone. I didn't have a preference for who it was because my FOS wasn't on anyone at that point. You can take that 'not caring who is lynched' if you like. That is kind of twisting the situation but I expect no less.
It's not so much a question of why other people are opposed to the Sourcandy wagon as it is a question of why you prefer to randomly lynch Sourcandy when other, non-random alternatives have been suggested.
The only reason I voted for SC was because there was already a lynch bandwagon against her. As I have said, I don't care who gets lynched (obviously I care if I get lynched because the game would end for me) if there was a mass vote against you I would have gone with it.
You said that you'd be random lynching in this post, and I quote this from 2 posts later. Besides that, random lynching when we have some evidence (vs none) basically says that you don't care anyway.

-You tried to prove yourself as town because Yatagarasu ended up being town.
I've been over this a dozen times. I did not. When you discover i'm innocent it will prove I did not. I don't need to prove myself, I know I'm town. Whatever you guys want to think is up to you.
She wasn't mafia. I was right. If you want to look at Yata's death in retrospect, I was actively rejecting the idea of a lynch on a confirmed townie. If that seems scummy to you, I kinda give up trying to defend myself.
Also, knowing you are town doesn't do us any good.

-You threw several accusations at me that simply aren't true.
Kettle, pot black xD
Tell me, what have I done that warrants being voted besides point out that you're being anti-town?

Even if you are town, you're not trying to help the town. You've been only looking out for yourself (not caring who is lynched; voting someone you didn't find suspicious just to save yourself) and an effective town uses teamwork. So no, this is not a pot/kettle situation.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Night 1 4/7/13

With 9 players in the game, 5 votes are needed on somebody for the phase to end.
@Flame_;

VOTE: Flame_

I want to hear from you of what you think and why you have been so inactive.
I've been out of town for the past 4 days and have limited internet access so I haven't had the time to do any major analysis.

However, I am home now so I can do some thinking of my own. As for my FoS: Everyone, but leaning towards Crack ATM.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

You said that you'd be random lynching in this post, and I quote this from 2 posts later. Besides that, random lynching when we have some evidence (vs none) basically says that you don't care anyway.
Wait, you still think we had evidence. We didn't, that was proven when Yata flipped town....
Even if you are town, you're not trying to help the town. You've been only looking out for yourself (not caring who is lynched; voting someone you didn't find suspicious just to save yourself) and an effective town uses teamwork. So no, this is not a pot/kettle situation.
The only thing I'm guilty of is not jumping to conclusions like you guys did. We all voted her the only difference is, I didn't pretend it was justified like everybody else did. I am a townie like Yata was. We are equally as valuable to the game, in terms of saving myself, why wouldn't I? It means I could still play and the town keeps a townie and loses a townie, which would have been the same situaton if Yata had survived and I was lynched.

To be honest, of course I have the towns interests at heart but i'm getting bombarded with accussations, if you all think i'm the enemy, there's not much I can do it help the town anymore. The best thing would be for me to get lynched then you can start hunting for the real villains, because right now, I'm serving as a great distraction from them. They must be loving me.

Tell me, what have I done that warrants being voted besides point out that you're being anti-town?
I find it ironic that you think a vote on you is unreasonable whilst voting me for even weaker reasons.

When I die and it is revealed i'm town, I wont feel like i've been a selfish player, if the town wants so badly to sabotage its own people, there's nothing I can do about that. I really hope that the town can get things together after my death.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

Wait, you still think we had evidence. We didn't, that was proven when Yata flipped town....
We had reads, posts that we analyzed, behavior that we questioned. That's pretty much the best we can get to justify a Day 1 lynch. I'm not sure what you expect to have against anyone on Day 1, or why a reasoned lynch is no better than random lynching, but in my view, we did the best we could. And I'm not even sure why you're bringing up Yatagarasu being lynched to me, because I didn't vote her.

The only thing I'm guilty of is not jumping to conclusions like you guys did. We all voted her the only difference is, I didn't pretend it was justified like everybody else did. I am a townie like Yata was. We are equally as valuable to the game, in terms of saving myself, why wouldn't I? It means I could still play and the town keeps a townie and loses a townie, which would have been the same situaton if Yata had survived and I was lynched.

To be honest, of course I have the towns interests at heart but i'm getting bombarded with accussations, if you all think i'm the enemy, there's not much I can do it help the town anymore. The best thing would be for me to get lynched then you can start hunting for the real villains, because right now, I'm serving as a great distraction from them. They must be loving me.
Reasoned majority lynch =/= "jumping to conclusions", especially considering that we had literally as much time as was needed.

But you haven't been acting like you have the town's best interests at heart. You admitted to wanting to bandwagon-jump so long as there wasn't a bandwagon on you. You claimed to have "suspicions" on people in this post but only named HumanDawn in this one. You didn't even make an attempt to make a case against him. You tried to claim you're town because Yatagarasu flipped town, even though you voted her (if you truly did not want to vote her, you wouldn't have). You claimed that trying to make a reasoned lynch on Day 1 wasn't good enough. And now you claim that me voting you for being anti-town is unfounded, in light of all of these facts, and that I'm somehow scummy for it. I've quoted and linked to your posts left and right, the evidence is in your own words.

If you have a case against me, bring it up.

When I die and it is revealed i'm town, I wont feel like i've been a selfish player, if the town wants so badly to sabotage its own people, there's nothing I can do about that. I really hope that the town can get things together after my death.
I don't see it as sabotage, even if you are town. A townie that hinders the town's efforts is almost as bad as a mafioso, in my opinion.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

How about helping the Town get things together before your death instead of playing the typical "Town is so stupid, I give up" martyr card? Start by explaining why Mutie is scummy, in simple terms that are easy to understand. Saying she's scjm just for questioning you is ludicrous, is there more?

Also, we did have evidence Day 1. The fact that Yatagarasu flipped Town doesn't mean we didn't have evidence, it just means we misunderstood the evidence. It's easy to be a naysayer and deride every case, then say "I told you so" when someone flips Town or "You got lucky" when they flip Scum but that isn't scumhunting, in fact that actively discourages scumhunting contributes to the very lack of evidence and logic you're bemoaning.

We have to lynch someone every phase using whatever evidence we have available so please stop discouraging people every time they start to put a case together - it always starts small but you have to give small cases and minor evidence room to grow before the big stuff begins to surface - by attacking everyone for "jumping to conclusions" whenever they state their suspicions you're discouraging scumhunting, discouraging activity, and preventing substantive discussion.

I'm going to need to see yoh put a strong case together on someone you want lynched and push it hard before I can take your accusation that the rest of the players aren't playing well seriously.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

Don't worry about my accussations. I'm a lost cause now anyway. I wont bother typing another long post that will fall on death ears. I do have the town's interests at heart. That's why I hope I do die soon, because like it or not, every minute you spend wasting on me, you're letting the actual bad guys slip under the radar.
You obviously have a different idea about 'evidence' and what constitutes it, for me, if something is disproven it is no longer evidence, it was a misguided assumption. I could say that all of your posts were evidence of scum if I wanted too. Anything is evidence if you think it is, I concern myself with hard evidence, that actually has something concrete at the core of it. That's why I made it clear that I had no idea who to lynch when everyone else was saying did. If that makes me guilty, ok. It's just the way I choose to approach some games, you can either trust everyone until proven guilty or trust no one. I like to trust everyone until I have a good reason not too.

I'm voting you Mutie because you seem to be a happy-attacker (I just made that word up) Mew seems to be concerned with my intentions and he has been from day one. You however, had been relatively quiet until enough people had started to question me, then it was almost like you joined in while the getting was good. Aside from that, you seem very put out by my vote on you, if you have nothing to hide, don't dwell on it. My voting for you is a lot more justified than the voting of Yata by almost everyone. The only thing i'm guilty of is not pretending that it was a good decision at the time.

Honestly guys, i'm past defending myself. It's a shame it's ended so crappy for me, I could sit here and respond all day and it would get me nowhere. Do what you gotta do. It's been fun having some heated discussions. I sucks that I was at the brunt of them but I know there's no turning this around now xD
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

I'm voting you Mutie because you seem to be a happy-attacker (I just made that word up) Mew seems to be concerned with my intentions and he has been from day one. You however, had been relatively quiet until enough people had started to question me, then it was almost like you joined in while the getting was good. Aside from that, you seem very put out by my vote on you, if you have nothing to hide, don't dwell on it. My voting for you is a lot more justified than the voting of Yata by almost everyone. The only thing i'm guilty of is not pretending that it was a good decision at the time.
I disagree, and I apologize if I seem like I'm voting you for any reason other than the ones I've stated. Mew's playstyle and mine are quite different.

I didn't simply jump on you because I could. I only made two posts on Day 1 due to real-life situations, however, I did my best to make them count, and addressed things other players said as well. I saw your actions as suspicious, and made a reasoned vote.

I was somewhat put out by your vote on me because you really don't have any reason to be voting me. And don't get me wrong, my vote on you is not absolute. I may reconsider depending on what happens this phase. If you think someone else is scummier than you and everyone has more reason to vote for them, I'll certainly consider it.

[hr][/hr]
What do you guys think? How do you guys feel about CrackFox? Are there better lynches to be had this phase?
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

I don't know if I'm the only one who noticed this, but Master Mew voted early in two townie lynches. CrackFox is right about the fact that the scum is slipping under the radar. Personally, I think the two mafiosi have been behind the two last lynchings. It seems very much out of Master Mew's character (as a townie, that is) to not share his reads very often. But basically, and feel free to lynch me if I'm wrong, but I truly don't think CrackFox is mafia, and she (along with many others) are being framed.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

@CrackFox; There is a distinction between evidence and proof - everything is "evidence," the challenge is in interpreting it. What sort of evidence, other than analyzing intent (which you admit I am doing, and intent being the only difference between townies and scum) would you consider acceptable? Does it need to be a copcheck (we don't even know if we have one)? Does someone need to confess? There is no concrete evidence, we have to make some assumptions to make progress. Do we at least agree on that much?

@Zima; Statement of Verifiable Truth Value: Master Mew has been more transparent in sharing his opinions than virtually everyone else in this game, and far moreso than you have.

Why do you think I might be Scum? What post specifically gives you this impression and what was scummy about it?
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

I don't know if I'm the only one who noticed this, but Master Mew voted early in two townie lynches.
Only one lynch has taken place so far.

CrackFox is right about the fact that the scum is slipping under the radar. Personally, I think the two mafiosi have been behind the two last lynchings. It seems very much out of Master Mew's character (as a townie, that is) to not share his reads very often. But basically, and feel free to lynch me if I'm wrong, but I truly don't think CrackFox is mafia, and she (along with many others) are being framed.
What makes you think CrackFox isn't mafia?

As for Master Mew, I only have one question right now.
I'm getting a townread out of CrackFox's post #115, her frustration "that nobody has any real idea what they are doing yet," looks genuine and is not a frustration that caught scum would possess, as obviously they would not be of the opinion that the Town had no idea what it was doing.
Do you still have any kind of townread on CrackFox? She's seemed (at least to me) more upset in a few more recent posts, so I'm wondering what you think and if your townread would apply to those posts.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

@Master Mew;

It's not any post in general. I'm just getting vibes from you. Just how you are allowing for bandwagons to be made into lynches. From the looks of this game's activity, it's going to be an easy mafia win. :/ I admit that I haven't been as active as I could be in this game. I will try to stay active.

@Mutie;

@[email protected] I'm getting my games mixed up... It will likely be two townies, though. Good God. I should stick to one at a time.

The way she's getting frustrated and her overall tone makes her look more like a townie to me than mafia. I haven't tried it, but townlike frustration seems awfully difficult to pull off as mafia. It looks genuine.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

@Mutie; That read might still be valid, but taken in context it was a response to a direct question from TheMissingno. (Why should we lynch Yatagarasu instead of CrackFox), it was a reason why CrackFox remained my #2 suspect instead of my top suspect, a position I had first espoused in response to TheMissingno.'s original list of reads, where he announced a slightly stronger scumread on CrackFox than Yatagarasu and I said I would reverse those reads. I had a townread from one post of hers but it was never a comprehensive read on its own, nor is it now.

As for whether or not the same read can be applied to more recent posts, I don't think so (naturally, thus the vote) since I've since observed her using this tactic in a way that discourages scumhunting and antagonizes activity. She might be doing so unintentionally as a Townie, but I'm coming around to the conclusion with each subsequent post that it is more likely deliberate, and I am eager to discourage this type of activity regardless.

Do you think her Day 2 posts should spur townreads?

@Zima; "Allowing bandwagons to turn into lynches" is how we lynch people. I also feel it should be pointed out (again) that there has only been one lynch. The Town is working together to lynch its suspects, how on earth does that make for an easy scum win? Just because we've had one mislynch (on Day 1, no less) is no reason to throw your hands up in the air in defeat.

Building a bandwagon against someone you think is scum is how you lynch scum. Would you suggest... not... lynching our suspects?
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

You have said yourself that scum can blend well with the town. Remember how early we are in this game, Master Mew (and everyone else for that matter.) Just because we had an extremely long day 1 doesn't mean that all of the scum are out in the open and have been found. Personally, I want to discuss more before we end this phase. It would be wasted if we went without discussion and lynched a second townie.
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

Holy crap that's a lot of text.

Anyway, nothing has changed about my opinion of Cracky from the first day, especially since she continues to claim that we "had no evidence" on the first day which is most certainly not the case.

vote: crackfox
 
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Re: Werewolf -- Day 2 4/9/13

@Mutie; That read might still be valid, but taken in context it was a response to a direct question from TheMissingno. (Why should we lynch Yatagarasu instead of CrackFox), it was a reason why CrackFox remained my #2 suspect instead of my top suspect, a position I had first espoused in response to TheMissingno.'s original list of reads, where he announced a slightly stronger scumread on CrackFox than Yatagarasu and I said I would reverse those reads. I had a townread from one post of hers but it was never a comprehensive read on its own, nor is it now.

As for whether or not the same read can be applied to more recent posts, I don't think so (naturally, thus the vote) since I've since observed her using this tactic in a way that discourages scumhunting and antagonizes activity. She might be doing so unintentionally as a Townie, but I'm coming around to the conclusion with each subsequent post that it is more likely deliberate, and I am eager to discourage this type of activity regardless.

Do you think her Day 2 posts should spur townreads?
No, I do not have a townread from her posts, nor do I think I should. I am of the opinion that the Mafia can get just as frustrated as the town when faced with being (possibly) lynched. Thank you for clearing up the context though, I should probably check that in a little more detail next time.

You have said yourself that scum can blend well with the town. Remember how early we are in this game, Master Mew (and everyone else for that matter.) Just because we had an extremely long day 1 doesn't mean that all of the scum are out in the open and have been found. Personally, I want to discuss more before we end this phase. It would be wasted if we went without discussion and lynched a second townie.
They can, but they may not necessarily.

Being early in the game doesn't mean that everything we have so far is unreliable either. But sure, what would you like to discuss?
 
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