• 4chan is an 18+ website, and as such we do not want to expose our underage users to that site.

    You may post screen shots and text from 4chan, but direct linking to the site or its archival sites is not allowed.

    Thanks.

  • Saph continues his journey through Galar. Watch here.

What are you feelings/thoughts/concerns about TMs and TRs

Geek of the Games
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
2,797
Reaction score
1,727
I haven't seen a thread like this yet, so I thought I'd make it. Warning: prepare for an unneeded history lesson below, but it gets the point across.

As we all know, TMs (and to a more annoying degree, HMs) have been in the franchise since the beginning. However, until Gen V, TMs were one-time use items and extremely rare, often resulting in people stockpiling them (myself included), while HMs were the bane of most players due to their "stubborn" nature and rather situational nature (though some, like Surf and Waterfall, proved useful). Nowadays, TMs are infinite use items, again, thanks to Gen V, and HMs have gone the way of the dodo as of Gen VII, though the more "useful" ones remained, having been reformatted as TMs. As we all know, TMs were a prime way of teaching our Mons extra moves that weren't in their natural movepool to expand their options and make them more versatile.

Every gen, the TM list gets shuffled around a bit, with some moves gaining (or regaining) TM status while some get the boot, as well as the number of TMs going up from 50 to 100 over time. However, Gen VIII decided to mix things up a bit. We have our tried-and-true TMs, but we also have TRs, or Technical Records, essentially old-school TMs, which also act like old-school TMs thanks to the fact they break upon use. However, unlike back during Gens 1-4, where most TMs were extremely rare or one-per-game, TRs can be pretty easily obtained, usually from Max Raid Battles or the Watt Traders, making them easy to stockpile, as well as effectively doubling the teachable moves, creating a plethora of new possiblities. However, like old-school TMs, TRs hold the "better" moves, like Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, and so on, while the TMs hold decent, mediocre, and even some outright useless/situational moves (though some, like the Elemental Punches, Rock Slide, Thunder Wave, U-Turn, and so on still prove useful). This makes TRs more coveted, just like their pre-Gen V predecessors, and, as such, farming for multiple copies is back in style. They also turned several signature moves into new forms, like Incinaroar's Darkest Lariat.

This brings me to my question: What are your thoughts, feelings, and/or concerns about this new twist with teachable moves? Do you like the fact we now have double the options for our Mons to learn? Do you want this idea to continue into future games? Can you think of ways of improving the idea or expanding on it? Or do you think it's a bad idea and that GF should return the formula back to its more "standard" form since Gen V? Let's hear it.
 
Join the BlueLions!
Joined
Aug 25, 2018
Messages
297
Reaction score
371
They are fine for the most part. There just another reason to force players to do Max Raid Battles, which are fun, though there are some problems. My only concern is why they gave Gyarados Power Whip when it’s already cancerous with Max Airstream.
 
It's a monster house!
Joined
Aug 13, 2019
Messages
1,866
Reaction score
3,688
I've wanted a system of both permanent and one-time TMs for a while now, however, I'm not satisfied with their execution in SwSh, partly just because I don't like the line up of teachable moves; I wish it was more in line with the past two gens, though it is a step in the right direction. I don't like how they can only be purchased with Watts; there are record stores in Motostoke but they're nothing more than window dressing. The big draw of having one-time TMs for me was to make it so that TM vendors would no longer be useless after you bought all their TMs because they would also carry repeatedly purchasable items, the one-time TMs, and to give players something to do with their money (though the way I imagined having a dual system was that there would be two versions of every teachable move (reusable and one-time) with more powerful moves having their TM only available late game so you would have to purchase the one-time version early on; this would sort of defeat the purpose of giving the player something to spend their money on once they got far enough).
 
A person
Joined
Jun 23, 2019
Messages
84
Reaction score
184
I like the concept for the most part. It gives a lot of options and another reason to do max raids. It's also kinda nice being able to sell the ones you don't need for money again. My only issue with it is that it can be a pain to get specific ones if the TR sellers don't have the ones you're looking for and none of the raids have them. I still feel they're better than TMs were back before Gen V.
 
Now with a m̶e̶g̶a̶ Gigantamax
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,199
Reaction score
1,713
I actually like it. It makes TR moves a little more special when it comes to choosing them.

However, I'm a bit baffled at some of their choices between the two. Why why WHY is pay day a tm? It's a waste of a tm slot that something like energy ball could've taken, and I know it's not the only move like that.
 
Laid to Wake
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
6,147
Reaction score
16,149
The basic system of it is fine. The only real problem with breakable TMs in my opinion was that they often weren't renewable, and this solves that. You don't have to grapple with the decision of who to give that coveted Earthquake TM to.

However, I do agree with @SpinyShell that it is very strange to have TR shops in various cities only for them to be nothing more than unused scenery. Being able to spend cash instead of watts would also be convenient.
 
Cute bunny baby
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
5,324
Reaction score
2,758
I like them. I think the selection of moves we got through TMs and TRs is really great actually. Being able to buy the elemental fangs and punches was soooooooo helpful. I also think it's great that Max Raid Battles give TRs as rewards. I ended up with great moves like Energy Ball and Dragon Claw rather early in the game simply from some random Max Raid Battles.
 
Dieter
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
1,060
Reaction score
893
I actually like it. It makes TR moves a little more special when it comes to choosing them.

However, I'm a bit baffled at some of their choices between the two. Why why WHY is pay day a tm? It's a waste of a tm slot that something like energy ball could've taken, and I know it's not the only move like that.
Same, I really thought those shops would have... something

Like, even as stores with random, limited stock they could have worked
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
3,480
Reaction score
9,782
Pros:
  • Replacing an NPC with an item makes it much easier for players to get interested in moves and save the decision for later. Instead of having to trek all the way back and remember where all the tutors are, now you can acquire a TR and hold onto it for later use.
  • If you don't want a move, you can sell the TR, and TRs go for more than the tutor currency does, I think
  • If you can give a Pokemon a TR to hold, that could be a real nice gift to someone you trade with! Reminds me of those Christmas Wondertrades when people would send out Eevees holding evo stones.

Cons:
  • More items ends up cluttering the bag a bit. Luckily, the TM pouch is by far the easiest to sort. (Although I still find the number system weird and arbitrary)
  • These man-made devices are usually found in the Wild Area, and no store sells them despite there being several record shops out and about in the world. Inconvienent and doesn't make sense story-wise.

I thought I had more opinions on this but this is all I can think of for now.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
6,866
Reaction score
8,944
These man-made devices are usually found in the Wild Area, and no store sells them despite there being several record shops out and about in the world. Inconvienent and doesn't make sense story-wise.
After playing so many RPGs I think I have stopped questioning this. I think it is the equivalent of finding a wolf carrying a sword in other games.
 
Dieter
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
1,060
Reaction score
893
Cons:
  • More items ends up cluttering the bag a bit. Luckily, the TM pouch is by far the easiest to sort. (Although I still find the number system weird and arbitrary)
I thought I had more opinions on this but this is all I can think of for now.
I haven't checked yet, but in the past you could also sort them by name right? Which would make looking for a specific move a lot easier
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
3,480
Reaction score
9,782
I haven't checked yet, but in the past you could also sort them by name right? Which would make looking for a specific move a lot easier
Yeah, that's what I was referring to- sorting them by number doesn't really help them become any easier to find, but since the TM pouch can be sorted by name and type, it's a lot easier to find something.
 
Dieter
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
1,060
Reaction score
893
Yeah, that's what I was referring to- sorting them by number doesn't really help them become any easier to find, but since the TM pouch can be sorted by name and type, it's a lot easier to find something.
I mean, you have to differentiate them somehow, besides by name, and a number is not that odd a choice. It also makes it easier to see if you're missing anything. Just names won't tell you that, but if you've got TM12 and TM14, you know there's still a TM13 out there somewhere
 
PinkIceTales!
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,899
Reaction score
4,687
My initial reaction: OH great. They recreated one time use TMs but slapped a new name on it. And I can't buy any at the record shops because they're just set dressing???

My current reaction: I have five of one of these because I beat a bunch of a pokemon. Still kinda dumb. STill wish I could buy them.

I don't understand the reasoning behind making more one use move teaching items. All it does for me is create a scenario where I'll never use them because I 'might need them later'.

Like the best healing items in RPGs. Except instead of having them in case of an extreme emergency in a boss fight, the records just continue to take up space.
 
織田信長☆FAN
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
112
Reaction score
73
I don't mind them much at all, though there's a huge obvious discrepancy between the usefulness of the TMs they've chosen versus that of TRs selected. I mean, you have some really poor-quality moves like Scary Face and Screech as TMs while TRs are almost all universally good (with the only real exceptions being Agility and Focus Energy)? Granted, this increases the freely-teachable move count to 200, so I don't see the downside otherwise.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
3,480
Reaction score
9,782
I mean, you have to differentiate them somehow, besides by name, and a number is not that odd a choice. It also makes it easier to see if you're missing anything. Just names won't tell you that, but if you've got TM12 and TM14, you know there's still a TM13 out there somewhere
Yeah, but choosing what TM gets what number doesn't seem to have any order to it. They don't group moves by base power or type or anything like that, they're just there. So you could find what TMs you're missing, but that's not quite as useful as being able to find what you want out of your bag.
 
Dieter
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
1,060
Reaction score
893
Yeah, but choosing what TM gets what number doesn't seem to have any order to it. They don't group moves by base power or type or anything like that, they're just there. So you could find what TMs you're missing, but that's not quite as useful as being able to find what you want out of your bag.
Yeah, their numbering is rather arbitrary, I'll give you that. But they've also based the new list on the previous one so... I assume that in Gen I there was an idea behind the order, (be that logic, relation, or creation), but that's long gone. Regardless, people can sort them in the way most convenient for them, so finding the ones you need shouldn't be hard.

My initial reaction: OH great. They recreated one time use TMs but slapped a new name on it. And I can't buy any at the record shops because they're just set dressing???

My current reaction: I have five of one of these because I beat a bunch of a pokemon. Still kinda dumb. STill wish I could buy them.

I don't understand the reasoning behind making more one use move teaching items. All it does for me is create a scenario where I'll never use them because I 'might need them later'.

Like the best healing items in RPGs. Except instead of having them in case of an extreme emergency in a boss fight, the records just continue to take up space.
The fact the record shops are entirely useless is pretty grating. Like I said before, have em have a daily, changing stock. Or they could have had them sell TMs too, rather than have Marts do it.

I do think that the 'beter save this for when I need this' is more of a player issue than a gameplay issue though. It's a common thing across the RPG genre, so I can't really fault GF for it. Not to mention in this case it's not even that waranted, because you can always get more copies. Need a Ground type TR? Go fight a Ground type Max Raid. Plus, they might be in stock with the salespeople in the Wild Area. And the ones you're not using can be sold. It's not like Gen IV and earlier where you only had one shot at most TMs, and they're more convenient than Move Tutors, whom you have to locate
 
Joined
Jul 17, 2019
Messages
187
Reaction score
127
I actually REALLY like the split between TMs and TRs. It meant that I could throw new, really interesting moves onto my mons early on. It'd be REALLY broken to give, say, a reusable blaze kick TM early on. But a single use TR for it? That actually felt cool. I got a cool move but there was a real decision to make regarding it.
 
Ghost maniac
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
701
Reaction score
259
I hate that one time use TM's are back, although renamed TRs, I hate that the best moves became TRs. Hate it.
At least they don't cost BP because that'd be plain evil, watts are at least affordable if you check all the dens daily. Especially post game.
 
Join the BlueLions!
Joined
Aug 25, 2018
Messages
297
Reaction score
371
I hate that one time use TM's are back, although renamed TRs, I hate that the best moves became TRs. Hate it.
At least they don't cost BP because that'd be plain evil, watts are at least affordable if you check all the dens daily. Especially post game.
Most are pretty easy to obtain thanks to Raid Battles; though you might be screwed if you lack allies that are not other players.
 
Top