What are your general expectations for the female leads as battlers?

[Cinderfella]

Hello everyone. Me again.

I'm finding my way slowly but surely getting back into the anime recently. One thing that has been helping me is reflecting(not staying) in the past of what the anime used to be. One thing I've been pondering about are the female leads as battlers-hence the Iris and Misty defeating Ash thread I made recently.

As a general consensus-what are all of your feelings towards the main female leads being battlers? Their goals reflecting them as battlers-May and Dawn definitely included because their professions require battling.

It's up in the air yet not up in the air for Misty, Iris, and Serena-for as a fanbase we aren't mind readers-yet it would've/would be nice to know where the writers wanted to go with them in terms of their battling style, technique, ratio.

General questions I bring to you that I often ask myself are:

-What could they have done with Misty battle wise to strengthen her Water Pokémon trainer abilities? Did they essentially want her to get to a certain level. She may have had roughly around 10 battles that were legit in her series run. Was she given a Gyrados to show her improvement as a trainer?

-Did May get all of those evolutions in her DP cameo to signify that she can beat Soledad in a contest battle now presumably being more capable with evolutions-who I assume was sent to Johto along with Drew and Harley to prove that and are we to assume because of this that she won?

-Although the appeals were Dawn's main issue in the beginning-how much of an experienced battler did they want to make her? She still fell for Zoey's traps in their GF final battle and she lost to Kenny with Ambipom, characters lose all the time-but she did challenge Maylene. I'd say Buneary is the only Pokémon who missed on a true battle experience and I wonder why that is?

-Was Iris' special favors that were given to her solely because she was the Champion in BW2 games? Why did she get so many shortcuts and was able to advance in tournaments and catch difficult Pokémon with an ease-Gible and Dragonite? Could it had been something deeper?

-If Serena doesn't have a career that involves battling-how much is she missing out if at all? Should she do something that involves a battle portion? Can we, as an audience, really sit through that?

I think battles are essential, and I feel all the characters should do them. Whether regular or not-there should also be progression. A character is a whole lot more interesting when their goal involves battling, however.

Discuss Please.

 

[Mew2]

For me, it really depends on whether or not the female lead is a player character. I know that the female lead will likely not take the gym battle challenge; that belongs to Ash. However, if the female lead is based on a player character like May, Dawn, and Serena, then I would expect, and hope, for their goal to involve battling or at least a measurement of progress towards a defined goal. I had no problems with May and Dawn's goal. Contests and "Super Contests" (were they even called Super Contests in the anime?) had a battling element to it, which meant that May and Dawn also had to be skilled battlers. In addition, there were also ribbons, which was a measurement of progress towards their goal: to become the Grand Festival Champion. That is why I have a problem with Serena's proposed goal so far. It doesn't look like it will involve battling, which to me, is important for a female lead who is representative of the female player character of the game. This would not be an issue for me if the female lead for the series were Shauna. It is also why I wouldn't have a problem if this were also Misty or Iris since they aren't the female player character. Serena is. Now, it could be saved if Serena's lack of battling becomes a plot point later on, or even if her goal's lack of battling becomes a plot point, but I doubt that the writers will go there. As it is, the reason why May and Dawn are my favorite female leads, so far, is that they were both the female player character, and their goals also involved battling. If that was the case, or eventually does become the case for Serena, she would/will join them at the top, in my view.

 

[Mew2]

I have to say that I prefer it if the female lead is a battler, particularly if the female lead is based on the female player character from the games. I liked that May and Dawn's goals involved battling. That is one thing that concerns me about Serena right now and why she's not up there with May and Dawn, in my opinion. The games are about battling and to progress through the games, one has to battle. For May and Dawn, that was reflected in the requirements for their goals. For Serena, I have a bad feeling that whatever goal she has will not involve battling, which would not be bad if she were actually Shauna, but she is not. She is Serena, a character based on the female player character. As a game player, I would hope that her goal, whatever it winds up being, involves battle.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Cant believe i didnt noticed this thread before.

Alright since no one posted yet, ill be first one to break ice in what i consider enjoyable soil to discuss girls and their battle effectiveness, dreams, what writers could have done or did done with their careers etc.

To answer thread starter questions:

1.-With Misty writers could had focus on learning how to better understand feelings of her pokemon establishing closer bond, like Psyduck with his mastering of swimming and battling skills serving as testament to her improvement. Because aside from Staryu, and Poliwhirl bonding moments, not much was done iuth rest of pokemon.
You can count Togepi i guess because for his evolving happiness is precondition with Misty succeeding more than well in putting lot of care and efort in its raise.

They could introduce several water based competitions serving as stepping stones, benchmarks in bringing her closer toward water pokemon master title. Introduce old sages who know secrets and both strength, weaknesses of water pokemon making Misty train with them and expanding on whole lore Whirl islands introdued about sea spirits and connection to water masters from ancient times.

Whirl Cup , sea priestess Maya and whole concept of Alpha Omega of water species was great step forward, but still left many questions unanswered.

Writers could have Misty battle evaluators and strong trainers certified by pokemon league committee in trying to become E4 one day. Considering how she openly stated that Primas, Lorelei from E4 is her idol, hero wishing if she could learn how to be better water trainer from her dreaming to acvhieve such level of prestigue and recognition one day.

Resulting in Misty trying to leave impression on powerful water expert to be taken as his apprentice perhaps, going through fears and selfdoubts of not having what it takes to succeed and risking to embasrass herself ending as failure.
Add to that fact how in games Misty worships E4 Loreei too for her style and strategy in using water, ice types stating she will leave gym and go on journey to battle stronger trainers and improve skills, and its not hard to deduce how this draws similarity with Caitlin too. Who wanted in games to reach higher rank as trainer going on journey to become stronger ending as E4 member in future.

Which could in theory happen to Misty some day too based on her dialogue.

Pokemon writers without doubt established Misty career to reach very high level. On pair with E4 members striving to become strongest water trainer in world, honored and respected by others.

However its also needed to take in consideration how Misty came from pokemon era when battles, training and more active focus toward someone dreams wasnt priority.

Hence why Misty went through personality development greatly maturing, getting over complex of feeling inferior to sisters, became more open and reasonable as person in her friendship with Ash, Brock to the point of viewing them as her own family she didnt had chance to have and greater sense of confidence and selfreliance.

But that psychological growth wasn't followed with development of her skills as water trainer.

Eventually addition of Gyarados who massively boost up Misty pokemon team(Gyarados can never be considered slouch, especially ones who know more diverse techniques like flamethrower she taught him), passing inspection test bringing gym back on right track, Evolution of Poliwhirl, reaching top 8 in Whirl Cup, being recognized by several trainers like Coastline gym leader Dorian, PIA inspector Joy, Georgio, winning through touch competition in Princess festival, beating Andreas who hold title of Seaking event champion sevceral years in raw etc was writers compensation for lack of more notable development in trainer aspect in earlier stages of this show.

But at end of day her dreams of becoming water master and reach E4 level of strength, flaws in not knowing how to use her pokemon to full potential turning weakness of other types in her strength(especially with revelation of mega evolution nowadays, still think mega Slowbro would fit her), prejudices in choosing pokemon by looks where presence of Surskit or Binnacle with their design, or bug characteristics could invoke in her clash and breakdown having to learn how to accept them etc.

Were left largely unfinished.

Leaving lot of potential for follow up and further development of character if writers ever wish to continue from where they stopped bringing Misty back in show.

2.-May receiving several evolutions of screen such as Bulbasaur right to Venusaur, Eevee to Glaceon, Squirtle to Wartortle was what i would consider fast forward progression. With writers wanting through such boost taking place of screen to signify on correctness on May decision in feeling Ash is holding her back. Deciding how its time to travel on her own, find her own tune as coordinator and break free from his influence in developing her own style as coordinator,.

Although with mixed success since May did stated in cameo in DP how she had trouble lately losing quite a few important battles still not finding her own strategy and way of performance(maybe having friends by your side who can aid you encouragement and moral support isnt so bad after all). But power up in muscle and resistance of her pokemon was i suppose writers way of assuring audience how this character may have very solid chance of winning Johto grand festival. With third time being a charm possibly for her.

3.-With Dawn her character was for large chunk of Sinnoh established as person who focus more on pokemon performance and appeal rounds. Rather than battling aspect and strength of her pokemon attacks, speed, agility and strategy which comes with it.

This was something she got called out on from others like Zoey and Ursula if im not mistaken.

Eventually Dawn started to be more concentrated on raw, straightforward power of pokenon attacks, but was still predominantly partial to elegance and flashy aspects of pokemon techniques developing combination of various styles to leave good impression on judges. But also winning in battle rounds with grace if possible.

Resulting in most of Dawn wins in battle rounds being won by points, rather than knocking opponent pokemon down(as another extreme most of May wins were by fainting other side).

Which worked both and against her in Grand Festival showing how she still isnt there quite yet, lacking at that point and time knowledge, craftmanship and more rational use of strategy to become top coordinator.

4.-As far as Iris goes i always thought cognition of her game counterpart becoming champion in games was reason behind writers deciding to do quick power up, have Iris pokemon suddenly become stronger with no real work(such as Axew sprouting giga impact out of nowhere, tying with Drayden Haxorrous and obtaining Dragonite) to better reflect image of her game counterpart.

In first half of BW writers barely did much with Iris in that regard just to later realize how they didn't developed her character and pokemon team much when Bw series entered its later stage. Deciding to do shortcut in having her obtain fully evolved pokemon right of the bat and try to become better in understanding dragon feelings and their nature through his presence. It was rushed and sloppy writing and if it didn't came out of blue perhaps people would be more amicable toward Iris getting third stage pokemon and suden powerr up in her skills and understanding of dragons if there existed some build up , whole arc made of Iris trying to earn Dragonite sympathy joining her. But past cannot be reversed and it happened what happened unfortunately.

5.-Speaking of Serena there exist both factors which go in her favor as far as pokemon poerformer career goes. But aso those which can easily backfire working against her.

I mean its cool that writers and producers are trying to push through show idol conceot which is something very recognized and popular in real life. Especially in Japan which goes nuts about them, viewing them as role models.

Showing insight in different kind of professions and how not every person in pokemon world is competitive, has flare in itself to train, enter tournaments and catch many pokemon, has desire to utilize pokemon mainly for battles and become powerful and renowned expert. Something to which Misty and Iris can be more affiliated with.

However possible lack of battles or more notable activities made with performer and pokemon might also lead to disaster, if there is not enough diversity and various new ways introduced to utilize pokemon in exciting yet not very common way.

I think it would be cool if pokevision as part of tripokalon category involved section where Serena films various famous people, celebrities in Kalos,. Like Diantha, gym leaders, E4 members or other performers, researchers, type specialists etc interviewing them. Recording occasional battle vs them uploading it on internet. Depending on how accepted they are if she will earn enough points to advance to next category to enter at end Master class event for Kalos queen title. I mean Shauna with her Bulbasaur showed some cool decisiions and strategy in battling, implying how performes train with pokemon and do sometime battling too.

p.s. At end of the day writers wanted or are yet planning to portray with Misty, May, Dawn, Iris and Serena(in few years from now thius will be very long list if we continue getting even more girls forgetting about previous ones) how each of them contasins expertize, knowledge and remarkable talent for their age.

Explanation:
-Misty for back in day standards can be considered to be highly knowledgeable and perceptive trainer. Proving it with ability to sense position of algae, sea or air currents when anticipating from where pokemon or next attack will come(one of better examples happened in Orange Islands, Johto Seaking contest,using Goldeen fins in blocking Quilfish pin missile or luring out Rhydon out of water for example) . Being very talented, skilled in outsmarting several older trainers and achievong several impressive feats.

Ths came to expression in commanding wild pokemon with no trouble which got commendetion through Marina and Ash, Outclassing Molly ridiculously overpowered pokemon materialized by Unown which were sewveral times stronger than real ones as confirmed by Brock.

In Corsola defeating Trinity Gyarados, Dorian Mantine, Gergio Delcatty Sakura Espeon and Harrison Quilfish. Poliwhirl defeating Poliwrath, Totodile and Shelder. Psyduck never losing battle with one attack usually being enough to knock down opponent.

Regardless of being considered unfairly by fandom as "joke of trainer".

-May had shaky start but quikly proved her determination and resourcefulness in developing very effective battle style. Running various coordinators into the ground with forceful and powerful barrage of attacks(she won 8 out of 10 contests required to qualify for GF in Hoenn and Kanto through fainting opponent pokemon before time run out).

Having fast learning curve which brought her quarter and semi finals in 2 Grand Festivals defeating some of most fierce rivals she had(Drew and Harley who was peculiar and cunning trainer.

Admittedly some of those wins felt like writers gave her abit of leeway, but in reality they did same with others as well.

-Dawn on other hand in 12 or 13 contests she participated managed to win through knock oit three battles. While rest of ribbons was obtained through points and leaving more impressive performance among judges by time clock run out of time. In vein of this things Dawn took entirely different methodology and showed to posess enviable creative abilities. Developing all kind of strategies and attack combinations such as ice chandelier, sweet kiss bubble beam, rocket formation, quadraple combination, ice armor, aura whirpool and many others.

Displaying bold, homogenous and balanced style which offered good defensive abilities waiting for good opportunity for counterattack. Building her way in becoming recognized coordinator living up to mother and everyone else expectations.

-Iris goes without saying how she was presented to us as prodigy. Higly flexible, crafty trainer who trained ever since she was small child defeating several trainers wiuth her first loss not happening until she faced Drayden. Witnessing in dseeing her winning Battle Club, came top 8 in Donamite tournament. Top 4 in Junior Cup, top 16 in sumo tournament and Marine Cup.

Defeated several people like Georgia, Stephan, Ash, Dawn etc. Posess special powers knowing how to break in pokemon mind reading its throughts, fears and memories with magical like touch.

Had her pokemon like Axew learning questionable moves like outrage and giga impact in well pretty jarring waya. Alongside catching Dragonite and learning to fully control it in short period of time.

Writers tried really hard to present Iris as succesful and powerful trainer, that they in end had her development in some aspects coming of as forced and one sided unfortunately.

-for Serena ill remain sustained because she is rookie just starting out without having much info on my disposal.
But she did showed potential in learning quite effectrvely techniques herself:
Such as using headbutt on Jessie Pumpkaboo in recent episode.

With all main female protagonists writers intention was to send out message how they have knowledge, resources and above average talent to achieve their dreams in reaching highly prestigue and honored position. Such as top coordinator in May and Dawn case. Water pokemon master which involves winning high level tournaments as Whirl islands showed and possibly becoming first female water trainer as E4 member(i cannot stress enough how they are best mono trainers labeled as masters in games).

Iris becoming dragon master. Maybe even champion one day in future if writers expoand pn her career.
Etc.

If enough renunciation, hard work, courage, energy and decisiveness they put into it.

However message was sent to viewers in different ways, different amount of time and attention to their stories and dreams, as well different level of exlanation.

In order to convince fans in credibility and possibility of each of this girls indeed reaching such positions eventually.

Sorry guys for long post, but there was lot i wanted to say liking this kind of topics.