• ME continues wandering aimlessly around Sinnoh. Watch here as he participates in a Catching Show and goes to a strange island.

What did you NOT like about Sun&Moon?

Beep Boop
Oct 19, 2014
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Discuss the things you didn't like in Sun&Moon or were disappointed about :(

I'm not finished with the game yet, but for me the Festival Plaza is definitely high on the dislike list. It's so much less convenient than the PSS and that you have to get facilities at random by ranking up or from other people online is extremely unpractical :/
Hear me roar!
Jul 16, 2010
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The few things I didn't like.
  • The abandonment of the PSS in favor of the Festival Plaza. Its a lot harder to find your friends this way.
  • Having under 100 new Pokemon again.
  • The number of buildings you can't enter in towns. Look at Paniola Town. Of 6 buildings, you can only enter 2.
  • The lag during double battles, battle royales, and totem battles.
  • The first hour is slow with unskipable tutorials and all the hand holding.
  • That smile...That never changing facial expression the player has at all times.
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Go listen to The Birdwatcher's Guide to Atrocity
Oct 18, 2012
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Oh boy
  • Overall, the customization options are pretty horrifically limited. I think I actually prefer XY's assortment to these games'.
  • We can't sit down anymore. This bothers me far more than it probably should.
  • Our player characters are nigh-eternally locked into that stupid, generic facial expression.
  • PSS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Festival Plaza
  • Where the O-Powers at?
  • EXP scaling is great, but it sure comes back to bite if you have any interest in Hyper Training.
  • SOS Battles can get to be pretty frustrating, as basically everybody has noted by now.
  • The towns, while pretty to look at, have kind of a nasty case of style-over-substance. I know people like to lob this assessment at XY, but I thought XY's environments were pretty good, for the most part - particularly the towns. Nothing was as densely-packed as anything in the Great and Glorious Unova Region, but still, XY felt full. Whereas SM, as A-Pure-Cat mentioned, has a lot of filler. I don't mean stuff like the Japanese tower in Malie, but like, yeah, the other four houses in Paniola. And like, how the two hotels in Heahea both consist of a single lobby each, despite their impressive exteriors. As I mentioned in a different thread earlier today, it makes the graphical improvements and the increased world scale feel a lot more superficial, which can disrupt my immersion somewhat.
I am also slightly disgruntled by how vague they seem to have been about certain aspects of the story - not because I didn't like it, but because they apparently didn't make it clear enough, and now tons of people think that Guzma's dad beat him with golf clubs, Lusamine was a villain because she was high on an extradimensional jellyfish, and the world of the pre-Gen VI games was obliterated by the UBs. None of which is likely true based on what the games tell us, but you can't kill fanon once it's started to spread.

I'm sure I'll think of some more later. Of course, I should point out that I do love these games. They're prrrrrrrrrrobably sitting at about "second-favorite" right now.
Mar 24, 2010
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  • Less new pokemon. I like new pokemon. Moar plz.
  • While I like buildings that are there for decoration, there are a lot of places weirdly inaccessible or empty. The power generator place, the lighthouse and the area around its base in Olivia's town, ALL the regular houses in Po Town, that pointless golf course could have instead been a park for the guests of the hotel you can access post-elite four as a gift for being champion... the fact the only room you could go in at the Electric trial was the ONE ROOM.
  • Mom did not unpack. Haha so funny- no seriously you guys would it have killed you to create a version of THE PLAYER'S HOUSE that was fully set up? Painting the mother as lazy seems like a bad idea to me. |:
  • The Batter Tree and the Battle Royal. Nothing says 'stop having fun, kids' like features that force you to stop using the companions you've raised from the beginning in favor of finding ways to beat the cheating bastard AI. While I can see the Battle Royal being okay (if the NPCs were programmed to do more than 'fuck over human player in any way possible'), the battle tree really should have just been a challenge of using a single group of 6 pokemon and making it to the top, no shit gimmicks like PICK THREE AND WATCH THE POKEMON RNG'D SPECIFICALLY TO KICK THEIR PARTICULAR ASS and then have the game ask if you want to save said askicking for all to see (being the only thing in the game that also asks 'are you sure?' to add salt to your salt). This is not fun for people who play pokemon to enjoy pokemon and train what they like. This is fun to the guys who play on pokemon showdown and go to competitions with the same 10 different pokemon that have specific sets of moves for themselves. It's fun to a very small amount of people. |: When I became champion, I wanted to continue to fight with my champion team. Not just run up the mountain and beat the same four people then some random trainer over and over again. Or worse, give up my team completely in favor of using some obnoxious team built around tomfoolery. These features are basically "conform to a tiny set of skills or sit there and take it as we kick your teeth in. ;)" I just wanted the destiny knot to send better pokemon out over wondertrade but THAT'S stuck behind a BP wall. :( Or Pickup's RNG.
  • Pokefinder is too limited. I was expecting more than a press the a button at a pokemon that walks in circles/stands still/stands with its back to you because lol what programmer thought THAT'D be a good idea??? Also 1,500,000 points to get whatever level 5 is. Noooooo thank you.
  • I can't lay on Guzma's huge ass bed in his room. I can lay on all the other important NPC beds like a total creeper but not the massive king's bed. (At least I can lay on his old unused bed at his real house I guess?)
  • In moon Kiawe is doomed to stand at the top of that volcano for all eternity. Let him go home at least! :| His home is actually nice unlike the PLAYERS.
  • Post game content lacks. The 'quest' I was excited for was nothing more than Looker gets excited, walk in grass and wait until UB pops up, catch UBs, Looker gets excited again. Not even real story events to see them in action? That who scene with Beauty/Buzzswole when revealed was just a cocktease to make us think the others beyond Nihilego would be relevant at all. I thought at least when all those portals got opened we'd take a break from our other quests to go deal with that problem with Lillie and Wicke, but no we gotta go
    save Bitchmom from being bitch.
    Speaking of...
-Lusamine. Our first female villain leader and she's OBSESSED WITH BEAUTY and driven mad because HER HUSBAND vanished into a portal. Wooooooo that's not bull at all. :D So far for villains motivations we've had so far we had: Crime Boss, Revive Ancient Gods to Drown/Burn the world to make it better for pokemon/whatevs, Recreate World as its Emo God, control unova, DESTROY WORLD... and then we get a woman who's brainwashed by weird motivationless space jellies and crazy obsessed with things being beautiful and upset her MAN is gone. Plus an older woman villain had to look absolutely perfect to the point she looks the same age if not younger than Red and Blue. Bullshit. You could have at least kept her obsession with beauty and outright bitchiness towards her son and daughter as her true personality. But noooo ladies must be good at heart in the end and redeemed. :')

After the story is done for our bosses?

Giovanni: In hiding from shame of his loss by a child, probably not a threat by now?
Maxi/Archie: Humble pie because they don fucked up and realized it before it was too late, then reformed.
Cyrus: Emoing it up in Distortion world basically taken away from being a threat
Gheistis: Gone insane and no longer a threat
Lysander: Dead and/or buried no threat here
Lusamine: Poor dear is recovering from poisonous influence of Nihilego and is really a nice good person actually yes. ;)

(Note: Mai Boi Guzma isn't really counted in this because he's not a real Boss. He's just one of Lusamine's pawns and a paper thin writing tool to throw players off the trail of the REAL boss)

Either Lillie has some severe stockholm syndrome over mommy dearest's actions or our first female villain got the shit end of the stick when it comes to character writing. From what I've been told of her in this game, her role may as well have been Lillie and Gladion's oldest sister instead of their mother and both parents were lost in a UB distortion hole. Literally nothing would have really changed in the story.

Speaking of said MAN motivation for lady going crazy... Poke Pelago is a thing. NPCs mention said thing in their dialogue. Therefore Poke Pelago is a physical thing and not just a quirky universe player jumps into. It exists and people know of and talk about it. HOW DOES GREEN EYED BLOND FAMILY NOT KNOW WHERE DADDY IS?

Wow I love this game to bits still, though. I just hate they way a certain character was handled...
Nuzlocke Lover
Oct 15, 2015
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The annoying lag in Doubles and Multi Battles. Can't enjoy the Battle Tree like I am meant to. >_<
Active Member
Sep 23, 2015
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-To many cutscenes in the beginning. It's going to be hella annoying to start replaying these games.
-Team Skull was a big dissapointment. Not important to the plot and they didn't have done something except annoy the players until the sixth trial. Worse than Flare or even Rocket, since their gangster behaviour should be a reason to punch them deep into their faces. Guzma was crazy and could've been a decent character, but underused in the plot and Plumeria was unnecessary for the whole game.
The Ather Foundation wasn't better. Wicke was only there to say the player that she helped Lillie to escape and Faba was also done in five minutes. Lusamine got crazy because her childs didn't accepted her love and for that reason she created those portals so the UB's can come to the real world to have some fun. But afterwards vanishing to the Ultra-Dimension and leaving many UB's in the real world? WHAT?
It's stupid. The most story relevant characters except Lillie's family were underused and the most story string were barely explained. Wicke helping Lillie to escape or where Nabby came from before it got caught by the Aether Foundation as two examples.
-The UB post game quest was super boring. No extra story elements or all new characters with some growth like in the LeBelle quest in XY(Emma) or the Delta episode in OR/AS(Zinnia). It's a legendary hunt (or let's better say a UB hunt) falsely named as some kind of story.
-Post game once more being barren. There are some extra areas, but they're all short. The first extra path was over in 2 minutes, the big area also in mere minutes and the rocky path also in under 5 minutes. The only longer extra areas was the last bit due to the amount of trainer battles and the cave. UB-Quest was boring and didn't add anything story relevant or exploration.
-Battle Tree NPC's are just unfair. Like analyzing the pokemon we have and use the best counter pokemon and moves against us.
-Alola region having way to less cities. It doesn't feel to lively in those routes and something in the region just doesn't feel right to me.
-Festival plaza. Would've been neat, but also packing trading and battling into this got annoying after some time. I miss the super fast manuel of the PSS.
-Trainer customization options once more to less.
-EXP-Scaling is nice for the difficulty, but not for leveling my pokemon until level 100. Miss some ultra high leveled trainer (>75) for that matter.
-Lags, lags everywhere on my original 3DS.
-Too many places in Alola fell empty. Not speaking about the non-accessable locations, which were quite much.
I dare you to read this title
Nov 1, 2015
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-The way SOS battles were handled. You can't catch Pokemon with two out, and some Pokemon are only available via SOS, which isn't obvious at first.
-The customization feels limited again. I'm happy for my magenta hair, but the options available lack variety to the point of not including pants and long sleeves, which is ridiculous. And no, "tropical region" isn't an excuse. And I want long hairrrrrrrr. Clothes being version-exclusive is even more ridiculous.
-Being a confirmed kid again. I'd prefer to be a young adult like I am now.
-Lack of battle facilities seen in earlier games, as usual.
-Not really feeling the Champion theme.
-I wanna sit!

There may be more stuff, but I'm still pretty content with the game.
Sep 22, 2011
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I absolutely adore SM, but...

  • The Festival Plaza is a hot pile of garbage, it honestly feels like GF actively tried to fuck up the perfection that was the PSS. One of the only I things I will say that XY did absolutely right.
  • How do you expect me to get to level 100? I've used the same pokemon to grind multiple pokemon to level 50 or higher and it's only at level 85. At this point all these bottle caps are just going to sit here and look pretty in my bag, cause I'm never going to get a level 100 pokemon in this game.
  • I miss O-Powers. Stop making me miss things from XY.
  • Why are like half of the mega stones not in the game? And why are the ones that are missing the good ones? I better be able to use M-Beedrill and M-Pidgeot.
  • There's no National Dex. I kinda get why this one happened. But I spent so much time making a living dex just for these games and it didn't even need it. And locking it behind a paywall is just super scummy.
  • These games are so slow. Everything takes longer than it should. The pause between areas. The time your pokemon just sits there glowing while the game has to load the animation for the Z-move. These games push even the New 3DS to it's limits and I don't think it was for the best.
  • The lag is so bad sometimes. Like real bad. Even on the New 3DS.
  • The Z-moves are ultimately all style and no substance. They just scream that GF figured out how to make pretty things and wanted us to see. What a terrible replacement for Megas.
  • For the love of god please let me skip tutorials. I know how to play these games. Please stop taking up the first 2 hours of the game to me how to play it.
  • I hate how cutscenes were handled in SM, in the same way it happened in the Delta Episode. I hate having control taken from me so the game can spew dialogue for a few minutes, while also making me press A. Make them skippable please.
  • Fix the fucking SOS mechianic. It could work so well, but now it's gross and I hate it. Let me be able to catch a pokemon while 2 are on the field. Let me undo the adrenaline orb so what I want to catch won't call for help. Something, because this mechanic is just a mess right now. And I wouldn't mind it so much if so many important things weren't tied to it.
  • Why are the Tapus and UBs shiny locked? It makes no sense.
Pokémon: Gen 8.0 You Can (Not) Catch 'em All
Dec 30, 2010
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Plot spoilers obvi.

  • I don't have a problem with us having a lot of custcenes. I DO have a problem with us not being able to skip them.
  • So they removed Triple and Rotation battles (presumably because of lag), or the unplayable mess that is the Battle Royal?
  • No good post-game yet again. The Battle Tree is just another Battle Tower. And once you finish the UB questline and beat all the League challengers, the game feels so dead.
  • Speaking of the League challengers, only 5 Pokemon each? I think we only got like one 6v6 match during the whole maingame. yeah, you can't predict your opponent like you could in past games. But most of the people who challenge us focus on one type, and thus can easily be countered.
  • There's nothing to explore, either. The region is so small. Doesn't help that we can't surf between islands because of the distance (but we can still Fly? What?) and the only places to Surf are small areas.
  • Melemele Island is so small. Poni Island is small and mostly dead, and half of it is reserved for post-game.
  • No PSS. What we have now is a huge, clunky step down.
  • So the Festival Plaza is like a more annoying Join Avenue.
  • Customization was handled horribly. No long pants, socks (for guys) or shirts, too many tank tops, not enough hair. We can't have bags other than backpacks? No theatrical clothes? No Pangoro hat? No costumes of previous protagonists?
  • The dyes exist to justify dividing the already middling selection of clothes between versions. We can get clothes through Festival Plaza, but that's just a whole new mess.
  • The selection of skin tones. I can't pick tone 2 because it's too light, and tone 3 is too dark. (Plus all the clothing choices make my skin tone #3 character look like he's from Jersey Shore.)
  • The PokeFinder got boring after a while. It's just sitting and hoping the Pokemon looks at you. Like real photography, but less interactive. To make things worse, the thresholds to the next version are extremely high, but there's no real payoff.
  • No unlockable PC wallpaper. Like every game since Emerald had this.
  • No Pokemon Refresh minigames. Which means that if you like to overfeed your Pokemon and end up running out of Beans, you need to wait until you unlock PokePelago.
  • The PokeDex is shit. I'm all for smaller, but immersive PokeDexes that have a good selection. But Kanto makes up the biggest part of the Dex, even moreso than Alola Pokemon.
  • A lot of the Pokemon they chose were crappy, too. Like who was really asking for stuff like Fearow, Ledyba, Goldeen? Riolu and Lucario again? Aerodactyl doesn't even have a reason to be here. Did you know that Absol's been in every game (aside from FRLG) since its debut? Did you know that Zubat's line has been in literally every main series game? Even in BW, Golbat can be found in the post-game. Why not Noibat, Hawlucha, Cryogonal, or Pokemon that are unique but don't get a lot of love?
  • Distribution for the new Pokemon is kinda fucky, too. Why is Mimikyu so rare, when they've been adverting it like crazy and talking about how it wants friends? Why are so many new Pokemon so rare? Oh well, at least fucking Golbat and Haunter are everywhere, because I really wanted to see more of them.
  • ASLOWLA. Yeah, they fucked up with a lot of the new Pokemon this time around. At least Move Tutors can help with the ones that have shitty movese- oh no, aww, guess we'll have to wait for the next games.
  • I don't like many of the evolutions this time around, and overall I feel like the Pokemon are weaker than last gen's. Also, why are there so many waifumon? Why do we have particularly slutty ones?
  • At least we have cross-generation evolu- oh, nevermind. But we still have Megas to - wait, scratch that.
  • The Move Reminder is available right before the League. Yeah, that's helpful.
  • Hau.
  • Lillie.
  • Fucking Nebby. Enjoy Wonder Trade, you little shit.
  • Lusamine and Gladion weren't used enough. Ditto for the UBs.
  • Can my character emote more? There are only a handful of scenes where I'm not smiling. Yeah, Lillie's family trauma and emotional abuse is hilarious, but...
  • So many of the Alolan forms are jokemon, and only 7 (4 lines) of them got complete type changes. Most of them are just the same Pokemon, but with a new type slapped on them. I like the idea, but it was handled so poorly.
  • SOS Battles make capturing Pokemon ridiculously annoying. They should have made them Adrenaline Orb/Intimidate-exclusive. They provide a good way to EV train, but I found Super Training easier and more managable.
  • Hyper Training is reserved for Pokemon at level 100, and there are no good ways to grind beyond battling the Elite Four constantly.
  • The Aether Foundation being revealed as sketchy in the opening credits. I know it's obvious they were because of pre-release media, but the game essentially treats it like a twist.
  • Trials are just Gyms that are outside, and with less battling. Some of the puzzles are unique and creative, but I'm in it for the battles than some arbitrary minigame, and battles took a back seat. You just go in and do some dumb puzzle, face 2-3 Pokemon (usually from the same evolutionary line) and battle a Totem. We can have proper battles with the Captains later, except Soph and Mina are saved for the post-game, and Kiawe/Mallow are version exclusive.
  • Wow thanks. More Looker. Haven't seen him in a while.
  • Not enough cameos, and the choices were weird. No characters from Johto? Wally's decent, but he hasn't aged at all? Why Grimsley, and not someone who's more plot-relevant? Dexio and Sina, who I'm pretty sure are because they wanted to give you the Zygarde Cube? Like who really wanted them back so bad? Like even I have more love for XY than these games do.
  • Very few of the cameos were executed well. Grimsley and Colress were just thrown in to give you free swag. Cynthia and Wally are trapped in the Battle Tree. Red and Blue just show up to battle, and you only battle one. Professor Burnet could have been used more, considering how relevant her work was.
  • It's sad that SM (and Pokemon in general) doesn't know how to make good version-exclusive content. Splitting fashion and battles isn't a good motivator. Different plots, different locations, changes to designs and themes, etc. would be. I'm not expecting FE Fates-level difference, but come on.
  • Z-Moves are a lot less shit than I thought they'd be, but Mega Evolution is way more interesting and fun. Too bad Mega Evolution is shoved into the post-game, the Stones are ridiculously expensive, half of them are missing, and no new ones are introduced.
  • Speaking of Mega Evolution! Wow, thanks for blindsiding me into that battle and not letting me back out, Sino. Real helpful. I just wanted to collect Zygarde Cells.
  • Speaking of, Zygarde Cell hunting.
  • Why even make Lycanroc's evos version-exclusive? There's no real reason in-universe, and both evos are available in both games anyway in the wild, so?
  • You can't sit most of the time. You also can't be seen opening gates or climbing ladders.
  • People just hold out their palms and hand you items. They don't even give the item an overworld sprite. And also, it's hilarious when the person is farther away from you, but they can hand you an item anyway.
  • Incineroar's hands and fingers. Why not make its wrists thicker to make them less weird?
  • Primarina is decidedly feminine, despite them being almost 90% likely to be male. Why not change the gender ratios so it'll be easier to grab a female? Breeding isn't an issue, they include Ditto in every game now. It's also kinda ugly, but so are a lot of the evolutions this gen.
  • Decidueye doesn't give off a Ghost vibe to me, and it makes the type feel tacked on for the sake of making all the final evos have a new type. I get the meta reasoning for its change to Ghost, but its design doesn't reflect it well. Its shiny does, at least. Plus it has a big disconnect from Dartrix.
  • Necrozma doesn't have an overworld model for you to encounter it, you just have to go through the grass. Same for any special Pokemon that's not Solgaleo/Lunala.
  • Glad I can clean my Pokemon in Refresh. But only after a battle? Boring. Refresh is othwerwise Pokemon Amie but without the minigames.

Don't get me wrong, I really like these games. Easily one of the best Gen debuts, and they put in a shocking amount of effort. I'll defs be using the other thread to talk about all the things I like. I just feel like they took two steps forward and one step back at best.

(I should really re-organize this one into sections. But eh, effort.)
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Feb 21, 2014
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The things I didn't like on a game I love(d) playing:
  • The fact that my own name is on the forbidden list.. Come on guys, I never had this problem in the last 20 years of Pokemon.
  • You can't sit on a normal bench or chair. I like to sit, dammit.
  • This was a biggy for me and please keep in mind that this is my own opinion: the new Pokemon. Most of them are either too goofy, overhauled or simply not my style. I know that these things need to grow on me over time, but I never took this long to get used to any of them. out of 80 (something?) new ones, I only liked a handfull of them. Thats a bummer
  • The main plot was a little too short and unexplained in my opnion.
  • The difficulty and number of Pokemon random trainers used. I missed a few trainers that battled me with 4/5 Pokemon and not just 1.
  • I still haven't got a clue where to find one: a good training spot! Where can I keep coming back to when I need some Pokemon to level up quickly.. grrr.
End of rant.
Go listen to The Birdwatcher's Guide to Atrocity
Oct 18, 2012
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@Karamazov Yikes, I forgot about the Move Reminder being so late. My poor Marowak hated that...

Also, while I enjoyed the post-League cutscene epilogue... what drugs were they on when they decided to not work in a save point after defeating Kukui, or at any point throughout that whole scene? The games have always saved after beating the Champion. God forbid if your battery dies and you don't have access to a charger. Have fun fighting Kukui again and battling Tapu Koko again and sitting through the hour-long cutscene again. That is just fundamentally bad design on every level.
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Formerly sirphish
Aug 20, 2009
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Poni Island. This post will contain SPOILERS. This is where the game just started to feel off to me. The whole Island was basically just meant to drive the plot of Aether and the Legend(s). The lack of a Kahuna and Captain(s) when you get there is off putting and weird from a story stand point. And it just really feels like a shame after how refreshing all the prior captains and Kahuna's where with their personalities and trials. Poni just felt like a rushed island to finish the plot and serve as an endgame area and like a lack of potential. [Spoilers]I am aware of the captain on Poni and their role in the post game story, and I am sure if we get another Alola game they will feature more. But that does not make up for this game to me.[/spoiler]
All in all Poni just felt so lifeless and lacking after the previous 3 islands and all their charm and characters. The only redeeming aspect island trial related was seeing Hapu's story arc and development finish.. But the that Totem battle was just so random and out of place with no set up or Trial.
Super Moderator
Jun 17, 2006
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There are way too many trainers within the games with just one Pokemon on them. At first, I thought it was just for the first island to help give new players a chance to be familiar with battling, but it basically continues throughout the entire game. Now I don't mind that they try to figure out ways to make the games easier/more accessible for people new to the franchise or who haven't played Pokemon for awhile. They've always gone with the mindset that any Pokemon game can be someone's first one. I think that's an incredibly important detail to keep in mind and it's a factor as to why Pokemon is still so popular and well received. That being said, I think that they can still find a better balance than just making so many trainers with one Pokemon on them. It was rare to find someone with two Pokemon and anyone with three Pokemon that wasn't a Kahuna was a miracle. It almost kind of reminded me of how facing off against Team Flare/Team Magma/Team Aqua during the climax of their respective games. Even at that point, you'd still be fighting against Grunts with two Pokemon maximum. Granted, it wasn't quite as bad or as tedious as it was in those cases, if only because you are traveling around different areas and they do have different Pokemon, but it's still not a good thing that I thought of those cases.

It's also a shame since it means that my Pokemon are battling against fewer trainers. I like to keep my starter out in front and bring out other Pokemon afterwards, but because of this setup, my starter is out getting the most experience while everyone else is battling against wild Pokemon. Maybe they figured more people would use the Exp. Share to make up for that issue, but even if that was the case, having so many battles with just one Pokemon is kind of weak. Plus, I generally don't use the Exp. Share since I want to see my Pokemon on my teams leveling up. I'm a bit old-fashioned like that.

The removal of Super Training was a huge disappointment. I can understand why they might have left it out on a technical level since the mini-games might have been hard on the 3DS. They were able to remove the mini games from Pokemon Amie to make Pokemon Refresh pretty easily, but I guess they couldn't think of how to do that with Super Training. On one hand, a part of me does kind of like just focusing on leveling up throughout the storyline instead of taking time to do EV training like I used to and it gives something more to do after the storyline as well, but on the other hand, I really miss how easy it was to reset EVs. I can grow berries pretty easily with Poke Pelago, but it's no where near as quick and easy as getting those reset bags and even doing the EV training there was pretty fast once you get a hang of it.

I also found trainer customization much more limiting in Sun/Moon compared to X/Y. The clothes themselves were nice, but it seemed like they had fewer colors available for both male and especially the female trainers. I want to wear mostly blue, but blue is apparently limited to just the male trainer. I know I can dye clothes to get blue ones as the female trainer, but I'd need a ton of berries to do that and I already need a ton of EV reducing berries, so I'm kind of stuck there. I also don't really like that colors are limited to genders anyway. It seems a bit backwards when players should have access to really any color they want. It also took me way too long to find pants instead of shorts in the games. It also felt like there were a lot less places to buy clothes than there were in X/Y. There is the option to get clothing from someone you meet in the Festival Plaza, but that seems a bit unnecessary if we can just buy the clothes ourselves instead.

The Festival Plaza is kind of fun, but I agree that it's not nearly as handy as the PSS was. I was also kind of upset at it when I found out that the EV reducing meals won't work on Pokemon with maxed out happiness, which basically meant all of the work I put into increasing my Plaza's rank were for nothing.

Hyper Training is another disappointment since there's basically no good way to level grind to get to level one hundred. I was totally fine with that requirement when it was first announced since I figured that we'd get something to make the process of level grinding easier. And behold, we get nothing besides the Elite 4 and using the Lucky Egg, which I really wish was available during the storyline and not just something you get afterwards. That also factors into the post-storyline feeling a bit dull since it's a lot harder to level grind. It's kind of amazing that we don't get another couple of battle restaurants like we did in X/Y. It would be kind of lame to have to pay money in order to level grind, but if there would be any time that would be fitting, it would be with Sun/Moon. Seriously, there is no way to run out of money in these games. You can get money so easily that paying to have a long set of double battles, as they didn't have triple battles in the games, would be fine and it would probably be the most effective way of level grinding.

The Battle Royale and getting Battle Points feels so needlessly hard. I'd probably count in the Battle Tree, but I haven't gotten there yet since my Sun team isn't anywhere near ready for Red or Blue. I've struggled against the Battle Royale and it is frustrating. It got a bit easier once I figured out the rules, but there are times where it does feel like the AI cheats and it is incredibly frustrating to see everyone jump all over you all at once. The amount of time Electric and Poison type moves have hit my Primarina is so annoying. I thought that it would be relatively easy to get a hold of the items that I needed, but it was a struggle just to get enough points for the EV Training items. Now I have to get battle items and the ability capsule in both versions since I need to change the ability for one team member in each of my teams. There is a difference between making something challenging and making it needlessly complicated and difficult. The Island Trials would fall into the former, while the Battle Royale and getting battle points would fall into the later.

I like the new Pokemon, but it was annoying how some of them were really rare. In some cases, it kind of made sense, but with stuff like Rockruff and Mimikyu, some of the most popular and most promoted seventh generation Pokemon, it seemed a bit much. While I was generally fine on the amount of new Pokemon, I wish that there were more Alola forms. I knew that they'd be focused on just first generation Pokemon, but I feel like they could have added a couple more in even just based on the first generation. I'm still disappointed that we didn't get an Alola Water/Psychic Golduck or something for Seel. I am fine with the ones we got for the most part, aside from possibly the Alola Diglett line. It's not so much design wise, but it felt like they only did that so that Alola could have its own Diglett Cave because Kanto references. There are nods and references to other regions of course, but it does feel like Kanto got the most. It made sense given the anniversary and all, but it did feel a bit much when we got nearly the entire Nugget Bridge word for word.

I also find the S.O.S. mechanic kind of annoying. It can help with the level grinding and EV training, but it's also difficult to get a chain going and keep it going. Often times, they won't call for help and when they do, it's when my Pokemon is struggling against them. Even when I use the orbs, it isn't a guarantee and not all of my Pokemon can learn False Swipes. It's an interesting concept, but it feels like it wasn't executed too well.

And now some story related issues:

While I liked the storyline, I was kind of confused on some of the details and what they could be implying. Was Lusamine influenced by the Ultra Beasts and thus reducing how she was an emotionally abusive mother in the process? I hope not. Did Guzma's father beat him with golf clubs? Both of those details felt a bit too vague for my tastes. What was the point of Kukui being the Masked Royal when no one seemed to pick up on it was him, even at the end? Was it just to provide some hint that you'd battle him at the Pokemon League?

I don't think that the region was too small, but I do wish we got another island with another trial or two. I agree that Poni Island felt more shallow since it was trying to do the last island and the post-storyline stuff at the same time. Most of the other islands felt like they were a good length, but Poni did feel kind of lacking by comparison. It also felt kind of strange with the trial setup. I liked see Hapu becoming a Kakuna since she was pretty cool and I love Mudsdale, but we got a Grand Trial before completing the seven trials. That felt kind of strange and I wondered if I messed something up. And then the last captain trial doesn't really do anything aside from giving you a crystal. I don't think she even shows up in the epilogue celebration. I know you can battle her a couple of times after the storyline, but it feels kind of a waste to make her a captain when she doesn't do anyting in the storyline itself. I do like that the last trial was only by the Pokemon. It was basically believed to be the first trial in Alola and it does have a nice full circle kind of effect in that regard, but it does seem like it could have had more buildup than what we got.

I think that there were also too many cases where we just found Z-Crystals. It usually made sense and we couldn't have had a trial for every one of them. As cool as that could have been, it would have been too much given that they'd need to introduce a new character for every Z-Crystal. I think eight or nine trials would have been fine. Eight would have covered the Gym badges requirement just fine while still being something different. Nine also would have worked since that would have covered half of the Z-Crystals. When I just randomly found the Ice Z-Crystal while going up the mountain to the Pokemon League, it definitely felt like there should have been another trial or two. That's probably a good thing in a way since it showed how enjoyable the trials generally were for me. I think Poni Island trying to be the last island and cover post storyline stuff would have worked better if the island itself had been bigger and they had the same structure of doing Trials before doing Grand Trials. Otherwise, I would have gone for one more island.

I do like the cutscenes in Sun/Moon, but I agree that not having any time to save between winning the Pokemon League and the credits was not a good idea. It was jarring and surprising, but it also made me feel a bit overwhelmed since I was trying to capture Tapu Koko right then and there. I'm sure that I still could have caught it even if I made ti faint, but it was still something on my mind.

The Ultra Beast sidequest was a bit lacking. It was nice to see Looker again and the twist with Annabel was interesting, but the storyline felt a bit too straightforward for me. It lacked the same kind of emotional punch as the Looker side story in X/Y did and I thought that we'd go through the worm hole again. The Ultra Beasts were a bit challenging due to how strong they were and how they usually had a type disadvantage against my Primarina, but that was more annoying than anything else. I do hope that if we get another game set in Alola, which I also hope is a sequel, we can focus more on the Ultra Beasts too. I don't know if the concept was focused on as long as I would have liked it to.

I do really like Sun/Moon. They're really solid and enjoyable games, but they do have their fair share of problems and there is a sense of going two steps forwards and one step back in a few areas, particularly with level grinding and getting Battle Points. It's annoying when that happens and it does bring them down a bit, but not to a significant degree. They're still fun to play through. I just wish that they did fix up at least a couple of these issues.
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Destroyer of Fairy, Steel and Ice types.
Feb 21, 2011
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My list:
- Exp point gaining is just awful.
- Lillie is a pointless character that should not be in the game.
- Super Training is removed.
- S.O.S can get annoying after a while.
- National pokedex is removed.
- Bike is gone.
- Mega stones having to be brought by BP and not with our character's own money. Can only get 1 BP per battle of Battle Tree and Royal which makes it harder.
- Pre-evolutions of Solgaleo and Lunala are basically useless until they are fully evolved.
- Customization is back especially without type specialist clothes.
- Lots of shiny locks in these games.
- Having almost the same amount of new pokemon as gen 7. Could have given us at least 100/12o new pokemon.
Feb 21, 2009
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@-Luster Purge- You hit the nail on the head with that point. Everything and I mean EVERYTHING was rushed to hell and as a result the sense of urgency and peril vanished along with it. Vast Poni Canyon was however one of THE best tracks the franchise had since Gen V though.

Lillie was one of the biggest offenders here. Yes, I can get she wants to stand on her own two feet and walk forward with determination with a brave face but dear lord it was like she literally does a character 180 and was too giddy to get this "adventure" started. Her Z-powered form was cringe worthy and her "trial" just...wow. Just wow. I imagine the Murkrow overheard her talk and decided to get in on the act hence why they were far from aggressive about it and happily go their own way after its all over.
Wish they tagged along, just to see the balls idiotic thing she wanted to do. Because it was idiotic and in the end the PC still had to do the heavy lifting every step of the effin' way and yet: Oh, brave Lillie is trying so hard, we can't let her outpace us partner! And I'm just like, after (and still) solving all the puzzles & fighting through the waves of Trainers+ wild Pokemon... "*wheeze* too much telling but no showing Talking Pokedex...!"

- But the top rant aside the game suffered a lot from untold backstories/events that were supposed to roll with. Too many interesting characters are there but are virtually never touched upon (Plumeria comes to mind). Even meeting Mohn (clearly the man lost all his memories) is an optional thing on the players part. People could say what they want about the forced story pit-stops of previous games to introduce/explain things (Musicals. Contests, Join Ave etc) but a quick moment where we're invited or somehow whisked off to the Poke Pelago would have been great. Not like they didn't give us a good moment for it to happen via the very first ultra wormhole we saw and think nothing of.

- Taking away the PSS for that clunky backwards PoS the RNG Festival. Take the Join Ave and make it worse! This place is a joke. Thank goodness the Pelago is a thing.

- How could they...? How could they remove the DexNav? How could they remove one of the greatest allies in the hunt for helpful Pokemon and Hordes (ORAS mix) for the even worse SOS mechanic? The DexNav would have fit the RotomDex like a glove. Validated it too. That thing was worthless otherwise.

- This is by far the worst use of version differences ever. Locking clothes & Colors and even specific character battles to a certain game.
- Oh and this brings me to the tie-in point: you bring back character customization and its somehow worse than XY. At least Calem had options! And then there's the post game hair color locks.

- Kanto pandering. It's somehow not as bad as XY but it's still grating as hell. I personally drew the line when the man in the Thrifty mart gave me a free Tamato Berry from Kanto. That's a load of BS! Kanto and Johto can't GROW berries! Ethan and Lyra had to walk around with a mini greenhouse to grow theirs!

- Alolan forms what a waste of time. Oh and Exclusive Z-Moves for Kanto Pokemon only. Great stuff. PokeRide? Why so many Kanto 'mons? Did we really need to see Charizard again?

- Why are Alolan Pokemon so rare?! It wasn't GS bad but this was obnoxious esp. since I really wanted me my Mimikyu & Bounsweet.

-This is more a recurring problem with games since Gen V (but was a REAL issue in Gen VI) but Trainers coming at you with like 1-3 pokemon when you're probably sporting a full set mid-late game is really off putting and makes it feel like I need to keep the share on if I desire my whole party to stay up to speed.

SM were great fun otherwise.
Borderland Sword
Mar 19, 2013
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Kahili's Toucannon~

Pigtails being locked till post-game~ (Granted, if I liked the other hairstyles, this may not have bothered me so much, but because I literally had only two other options for long hair that I didn't care for, this irks me).

No PSS and Festival Plaza is in no way better~ I would be fine with FP if it was actually fun, but it makes everything the PSS made easier much harder again. -_______-

The rest of Kahili's Team~

Alolan mons being so DAMN SLOW. There's literally like 2 Pokemon in Alola with decent speed (not counting Alolan Forms). Like, why? I really hope some of them will gets some boosts in upcoming gens because there are Pokemon that look like they should at least have DECENT speed, but are just slow as rocks.

And a big one: I feel like Mina could have been better than what they did with her~ I was sure she'd be in Kahili's place in the Elite Four, but instead, she shows up, gives you Farium Z, and you next see her randomly on Poni (which is fine, because she's a traveler) and then in the Beast Missions for what seems like no real reason~ Why could she not have been in the E4 instead of Kahili? I get she's only a Captain and not a Kahuna, but so is Acerola and she was allowed to go for Nanu, so why was Mina screwed over for Kahili when Mina's an actual CURRENT CAPTAIN and all Kahili did was just beat all the Trials? It's not that I dislike Kahili inherently, but did she really have to be the one to take the one bit of actual significance Mina could have got? I really hope "Stars" fixes this, honestly because, while I'm not one of the ones who feels Poni Island was rushed, Mina herself certainly feels this way~
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"In your dreams."
Jun 3, 2013
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Besides most of what the others said(minus Lillie and Lusamine problems, Lillie's awesome besides the Z-powered form(especially the name) and the small lackluster trial, I consider that her first trial, and the Trip to Kanto her second trial).

I have four problems of my own.
-A small design detail. I kinda wish the Glide feature was Staraptor instead of Charizard. Since in Pokemon Ranger:Shadows of Aima, you get around the region flying on Staraptor, and it would be a could reference to the Spin-off games. Saying that they exist in the main timeline, and are canon. Orre anyone?
-You don't battle the trial captains often; heck, no one tells you can battle the other ones beside Ilima twice. The only other two you face is Acerola and Sophocles due to the Elite Four and Champion Defense. And two of them are game locked!
-EXP Grinding is super hard to do in these games with the removal of Blissey Bases. The only way to grind high levels are the Battle Buffet, GAMEFREAK Morimoto, After Game Poni Island locations, and the League Rematch/Champion Defense Battles.
-Resolution Cave's Final Room is the exact same layout as Zygarde's room in X&Y, and yet it serves no purpose except to catch Guzzlord which is not even in a 3D Model. Put Necrozma there instead of Guzzlord, and have Guzzlord eat some Rockroff's, Roggerola's, and Carbink. If X&Y and ORAS can have Out of Battle models for Xernas, Yvetal, Zygarde, Mewtwo, Groundon, Kyorge, Rayquaza, Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Deoxys, Latios, Latias and have no PROBLEMS on a Regular 3DS. When Sun&Moon can only have Sogaleo, Lunala, Cosmog, Tapu Koko, Nihilego, Buzzwole and Pheromosa. With a millions lags of jolts of a regular and NEW 3DS. You have some problems when half the Pokemon I mention weren't relative to the story.
Hear me roar!
Jul 16, 2010
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And a big one: I feel like Mina could have been better than what they did with her~ I was sure she'd be in Kahili's place in the Elite Four, but instead, she shows up, gives you Farium Z, and you next see her randomly on Poni (which is fine, because she's a traveler) and then in the Beast Missions for what seems like no real reason~ Why could she not have been in the E4 instead of Kahili? I get she's only a Captain and not a Kahuna, but so is Acerola and she was allowed to go for Nanu, so why was Mina screwed over for Kahili when Mina's an actual CURRENT CAPTAIN and all Kahili did was just beat all the Trials? It's not that I dislike Kahili inherently, but did she really have to be the one to take the one bit of actual significance Mina could have got? I really hope "Stars" fixes this, honestly because, while I'm not one of the ones who feels Poni Island was rushed, Mina herself certainly feels this way~
Personally, I kinda wish they switched things up in Poni Island, to the point where you had two Trial Captains, and actually gave Mina a trial. She said she might make her trial involve something like painting or picking flowers. My thought is that you watch her paint a picture of maybe Fairy type Pokemon and you have to answer what is missing from her picture so she could finish it. I would have had a Dragon type Trial Captain as well, to go with the Totem Kommo-o. Then after that and getting through Ultra Space, you can battle Hapu.
¡Prepárate a morir!
May 8, 2015
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I'm joining the choir and saying the Festival Plaza, period. It makes a mediocre Join Avenue but a terrible PSS.

The new fishing mechanics make it difficult to catch anything other than a Magicarp and occasional Pearl.

Removal of nifty features such as the DexNav, Super Training, Triple/Rotation Battles, etc.

No Amie minigames. They made grinding affection much more bearable.

The smaller Pokédex. In XY, I felt like I was seeing different Pokémon all the time. Here, better hope you like seeing Golbat, Raticate, and Pelipper because they are freaking everywhere.

Your rival chooses the type weak to you.

Hiding the national Dex behind a paywall.

You can no longer enter your own messages.

Too many slow Pokémon. My Decidueye's speed became such a problem in the late game that I had to bench it. And I hear that it's not even the worst offender.
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