What did you NOT like about Sun&Moon?

[Esserise]

Except XY.

What XY did you play?

XY aren't anywhere near as consistently guilty of putting up fake doors, or making single rooms look like huge, expansive buildings. XY's larger buildings actually have multiple rooms. The worst cases of façades in XY are Lumiose, for understandable reasons, and the power plants, for unclear ones.

 

[godiego]

Except XY.

I wasn't as bothered by SM's areas because SM actually feels complete, XY doesn't.

tbf at this point it just seems like you hate/dislike XY and Kalos. period. full-stop. no qualifier. no hypothetical unreleased third version would have redeemed it for you because put simply this is a statement that is just........wrong? i suppose you're welcome to exclude all these empty areas because you feel Alola is complete nonetheless, however that doesn't seem to fall in line with how you've constantly criticized Kalos for seeming empty because of an area or two that wasn't fully fleshed out, especially when you consider that Alola is just riddled with areas that are either just.....there..... (Lake of the Sunne/Moone? anyone? Hokulani Observatory in general?) or outright inaccessible (the lighthouse in Konikoni City which you have to go around to even access the outside area and you can't even enter anyways? Wela Volcano?).

i mean it's great from a worldbuilding standpoint to have all these nice things like a trash facility, police stations, motels, big hotels, and the like, but when a big point of the game is exploration and few of those places are accessible, let alone do anything at all, it's certainly a bit disappointing.

 

[GhostLucario]

• Island Trials-probably the biggest change, I didn't like them, I didn't find them interesting or innovative at all, they felt boring and pointless, just an artificial way to increase difficulty. I don't like that they got rid of gyms, they were a staple of the series and a good way to serve as boss battles and badges were a way to measure progression. I feel SM were lacking big way in the battling department.
• Handholding: Nothing else left to say.
• all the obligatory cutscenes
• the tutorial at the beginning. SO so boring and tedious.
• Lack of customization
• The region (I've never liked tropical settings and coming off Hoenn's semi-tropical setting... yawn)
• The plot. They've had ridiculous plots in the past but I feel this one was really stretching it. Was BW just a one-time thing?
• UBs. I'd preferred if they went deeper with this, or that they remained obscure, powerful Lovecraftian creatures you weren't supposed to capture. But the moment they revealed they were catchable I lost interest.
• The Battle Tree: just another hax-filled fest.
• Lack of post game: probably the biggest offender for me. Gen 6 was such a disappointment in this area, I was sort of hoping they wouldn't do that here but I guess my expectations were just too high. I haven't even bothered to play the game after becoming Champion. I miss the days of the tons of post-game content of HGSS/BW2
• Lack of National Dex/ pokemon to capture: 300 out of 800? and the other 500? If I just go through life using pokebank then what is even the point? Ugh
• No way to get EXP fast. No Blissey bases, no rematches, no Battle Chateau, nothing. We're back to the grind-for-hours torture of older games, without Audino or Chansey to grind.
• SOS battles: they are soooooo annoying and having pokemon that only appear through this method is just plain evil

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Too everyone who's complaining about tutorial- well... the tutorial is like a boon to people who're new to Pokemon, or are having their first Pokemon game.

 

[Silktree]

Any tutorial should be optional at this point. Hell, the only tutorial in Generation I was optional.

 

[Soki]

Too everyone who's complaining about tutorial- well... the tutorial is like a boon to people who're new to Pokemon, or are having their first Pokemon game.

When I got my first Pokémon game (Diamond), I was doing quite fine without an hour long tutorial though I get that stuff needs to be explained, but the amount of handholding was excessive in this game and there should really be an option to skip it. If new players play the game for the second time, they have to go through it again too and I doubt they'll be so happy with it then.

 

[Zweilous]

I honestly always found it odd how as the games gone on, it seems the tutorials have actually gotten longer. As Silktree said, Gen 1 was actually the least tutorial heavy game in the franchise, and it's gotten longer as more generations have been released with a couple exceptions here and there. You can argue it's because there's more mechanics to learn, but even so it's done in a way that doesn't abridge what's being said and forces the player to relive every detail of the mechanic regardless of whether they're familiar with it or not. So it's getting to a point where an option to skip should be necessary as veterans and players going through the game a second time shouldn't have to experience the same tutorial over and over, it's offputting to the player and intrusive to how they want to play. Giving that option would allow for older players to not feel like they're being coddled in the beginning despite how many years of experience they have behind them while also allowing new players to get into the game. They've done it before (Gen 1 as mentioned before, and IIRC B2W2's Bianca backs off somewhat if you say no), so it's something they can do, it's just a matter of fully implementing it into the games rather then something that happens off and on.

 

[Ereshkigal]

That's part of why I kinda want them to change the tutorial for Gen 8. Have it so your character is explaining it to someone else. Then, you can just skip by refusing to be a teacher.

 

[dragon_nataku]

I think it would be a cool idea for future games to mix the island trial and gym ideas. You know how some gyms only have like 1-3 people who aren't the leader? Maybe have them be like island trials (smaller ones like the Jungle and Brooklet Hill ones, not ones where you have to go through a huge area just to reach a person like the volcano one (although the actual trial for the volcano one was fine)) and they are the "gym captains," and you have to get through them to get to the gym leader (like the kahuna), and then the gym leader is just a normal gym leader battle, except this all takes place inside the gym, captains and leader battles.

I dunno, I think my biggest inner complaint prior to this game was that the "gym rats," as I call them, basically didn't have any personality or reason for existing besides a like 2-second battle before you battled the gym leader, and this might be a good way to make them a bit more memorable. I mean, I may suck at names but I remember all of the captains in S/M by appearance and trial.

 

[Fennel]

All the dye house business is just the worst. I know I'm late to the party; I'm sure people have ranted about this already but whatever. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if (for example) I want to dye a shirt Bright Pink in Sun, that means I have to:

1) Find someone with Team Pink ★★★★★ as their recommended facility. Great. You can do this online, of course, but most players don't have room for dye houses (especially multiples) and aren't willing to get rid of more necessary facilities for one that's going to be used less frequently if not just once.
2) Drop 1,500 FC on the dye house and an additional 100 FC on the dyed shirt, losing my white shirt in the process. Yes I know we're "dyeing" the clothing, and that the shirt can be redyed white, but why can't we just buy these additional colours??? I want to be able to compare dye colours in preview. And making colours version-exclusive shouldn't have been a thing to begin with.

Furthermore, you can't buy dyed clothing off Plaza visitors. And if you want multiple bright colours...well, have fun. The whole process is needlessly annoying on so many levels. I know all of it was designed to promote communication and provide a bit of a challenge but does it have to be THAT tedious?

 

[dragon_nataku]

"Provide a bit of a challenge"? I thought this was a Pokemon game, not Pretty Princess Dressup. Why are they making the CLOTHING challenging ^@__@^;;

 

[SpikOriundo]

I am pretty sure you are the first person to rant about it, because dyeing is the least of everyone's concern.
You are, however, not the first to rant about Festival Plaza. Because Festival Plaza is terrible, my goodness.

 

[Ereshkigal]

I try to avoid Festival Plaza. It just... wow, it's terrible.

 

[Kisu]

T

Too everyone who's complaining about tutorial- well... the tutorial is like a boon to people who're new to Pokemon, or are having their first Pokemon game.

Tutorials should be entertaining no matter what, especially to new players.

Not a baby coddling yawn fest making you wonder if purchasing this game was a mistake.

 

[Bolt Strike]

What XY did you play?

XY aren't anywhere near as consistently guilty of putting up fake doors, or making single rooms look like huge, expansive buildings. XY's larger buildings actually have multiple rooms. The worst cases of façades in XY are Lumiose, for understandable reasons, and the power plants, for unclear ones.

What SM did you play? There were a few areas that looked like you could explore further, but for the most part it was pretty clear what was explorable and what wasn't.

 

[Esserise]

What SM did you play? There were a few areas that looked like you could explore further, but for the most part it was pretty clear what was explorable and what wasn't.

XY are just as upfront about what you can and cannot explore, too. The only time they really aren't is the power plants.

I look at Vaniville, and everything is explorable.
Aquacorde has two filler buildings, and it's clear that you can't go in them (no doors).
Santalune has three filler buildings, and it's clear that you can't go in them (no doors).
Camphrier has no filler buildings.
The Parfum Palace has several rooms, and no false doors.
Ambrette has no filler buildings.
Cyllage has a handful of filler buildings, but it's clear that you can't go in them (no doors).
Geosenge has four filler buildings, but it's clear that you can't go in them (no doors).
Shalour has no filler buildings, and the Tower of Mastery has several rooms.
Coumarine has no filler buildings.
Laverre has no filler buildings, and also has the Poké Ball Factory (a dungeon-type area).
Dendemille has no filler buildings. The windmill is obviously unenterable (no door).
Anistar has three filler buildings, and it's fair to mistake them as somehow enterable.
Couriway has no filler buildings, and the train station has no obvious entrance, so it's clear that it's not explorable.
Snowbelle has no filler buildings.
Kiloude has no filler buildings.

Route 1 has no areas that look enterable but aren't.
Route 2 has no areas that look enterable but aren't.
Route 3 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. You can backtrack to surf across the lake.
Route 4 has no areas that look enterable but aren't.
Route 5 has no areas that look enterable but aren't.
Route 6 has no areas that look enterable but aren't.
Route 7 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. There's also the house on the Berry Fields which is enterable, and the Battle Chateau, which is aesthetically exagerrated, but serves a gameplay function. The Connecting Cave is enterable and is a small dungeon.
Route 8 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. Every layer of it is explorable. You can backtrack to surf on the water.
Route 9 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. Glittering Cave is enterable and is a small dungeon.
Route 10 has no areas that look enterable but aren't.
Route 11 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. Reflection Cave is enterable and is a fair-sized dungeon.
Route 12 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. The house on the ranch is enterable.
Azure Bay has the Sea Spirit's Den, which is only one room, but is not misleading. It doesn't look very big outwardly.
Route 13 has the power plants. That, I've granted.
Route 14 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. The scary house is enterable (you have to go there anyway).
Route 15 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. The Lost Hotel is enterable and is a small dungeon. There are several rivers to surf on, and you can backtrack to traverse the waterfall.
Route 16 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. The fishing shack is enterable, as is the other half of the Lost Hotel. The water around the docks is obviously sunken, so you shouldn't be thinking you can surf on it. You can, however, backtrack to traverse one of the three waterfalls (the other two clearly terminate in the non-surfable water).
Frost Cavern includes a route that leads to a large dungeon. The outer route has a waterfall that you can backtrack to traverse. The other waterfalls are clearly blocked off, soo you won't think you can scale them. Granted, there is one section of land further down the river that can be mistaken as explorable but isn't (though there is a small section of traversable land opposite it).
Route 17 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. The on-foot, explorable paths are clearly marked with breakable clay.
Route 18 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. Inver's house and Terminus Cave are both enterable, and the latter is a fair-sized dungeon. Granted, its two satellite entrances lead to one-room chambers, but it's not as if there isn't still a proper dungeon.
Route 19 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. Every layer of it is explorable.
Route 20 is a Turnback Cave-esque dungeon.
The Pokémon Village has no areas that look enterable but aren't. I'll grant that the Unknown Dungeon is guilty of being only one room. However, there is also a waterfall that you can backtrack to traverse.
Route 21 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. The Draco Meteor tutor's house is enterable.
Route 22 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. The Chamber of Emptiness is enterable, but granted, it's only one room.

Please tell me where exactly all these areas were in XY that you mistook for being explorable? Because otherwise, you're clearly not holding the games to the same standards. You're willing to overlook SM having misleadingly large areas and false doors, all while XY had very few misleading entrances, barely ever exaggerated the size of places, and had large buildings that were actually fleshed out with multiple rooms.

 

[Bolt Strike]

XY are just as upfront about what you can and cannot explore, too. The only time they really aren't is the power plants.

I look at Vaniville, and everything is explorable.
Aquacorde has two filler buildings, and it's clear that you can't go in them (no doors).
Santalune has three filler buildings, and it's clear that you can't go in them (no doors).
Camphrier has no filler buildings.
The Parfum Palace has several rooms, and no false doors.
Ambrette has no filler buildings.
Cyllage has a handful of filler buildings, but it's clear that you can't go in them (no doors).
Geosenge has four filler buildings, but it's clear that you can't go in them (no doors).
Shalour has no filler buildings, and the Tower of Mastery has several rooms.
Coumarine has no filler buildings.
Laverre has no filler buildings, and also has the Poké Ball Factory (a dungeon-type area).
Dendemille has no filler buildings. The windmill is obviously unenterable (no door).
Anistar has three filler buildings, and it's fair to mistake them as somehow enterable.
Couriway has no filler buildings, and the train station has no obvious entrance, so it's clear that it's not explorable.
Snowbelle has no filler buildings.
Kiloude has no filler buildings.

Route 1 has no areas that look enterable but aren't.
Route 2 has no areas that look enterable but aren't.
Route 3 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. You can backtrack to surf across the lake.
Route 4 has no areas that look enterable but aren't.
Route 5 has no areas that look enterable but aren't.
Route 6 has no areas that look enterable but aren't.
Route 7 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. There's also the house on the Berry Fields which is enterable, and the Battle Chateau, which is aesthetically exagerrated, but serves a gameplay function. The Connecting Cave is enterable and is a small dungeon.
Route 8 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. Every layer of it is explorable. You can backtrack to surf on the water.
Route 9 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. Glittering Cave is enterable and is a small dungeon.
Route 10 has no areas that look enterable but aren't.
Route 11 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. Reflection Cave is enterable and is a fair-sized dungeon.
Route 12 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. The house on the ranch is enterable.
Azure Bay has the Sea Spirit's Den, which is only one room, but is not misleading. It doesn't look very big outwardly.
Route 13 has the power plants. That, I've granted.
Route 14 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. The scary house is enterable (you have to go there anyway).
Route 15 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. The Lost Hotel is enterable and is a small dungeon. There are several rivers to surf on, and you can backtrack to traverse the waterfall.
Route 16 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. The fishing shack is enterable, as is the other half of the Lost Hotel. The water around the docks is obviously sunken, so you shouldn't be thinking you can surf on it. You can, however, backtrack to traverse one of the three waterfalls (the other two clearly terminate in the non-surfable water).
Frost Cavern includes a route that leads to a large dungeon. The outer route has a waterfall that you can backtrack to traverse. The other waterfalls are clearly blocked off, soo you won't think you can scale them. Granted, there is one section of land further down the river that can be mistaken as explorable but isn't (though there is a small section of traversable land opposite it).
Route 17 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. The on-foot, explorable paths are clearly marked with breakable clay.
Route 18 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. Inver's house and Terminus Cave are both enterable, and the latter is a fair-sized dungeon. Granted, its two satellite entrances lead to one-room chambers, but it's not as if there isn't still a proper dungeon.
Route 19 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. Every layer of it is explorable.
Route 20 is a Turnback Cave-esque dungeon.
The Pokémon Village has no areas that look enterable but aren't. I'll grant that the Unknown Dungeon is guilty of being only one room. However, there is also a waterfall that you can backtrack to traverse.
Route 21 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. The Draco Meteor tutor's house is enterable.
Route 22 has no areas that look enterable but aren't. The Chamber of Emptiness is enterable, but granted, it's only one room.

Please tell me where exactly all these areas were in XY that you mistook for being explorable? Because otherwise, you're clearly not holding the games to the same standards. You're willing to overlook SM having misleadingly large areas and false doors, all while XY had very few misleading entrances, barely ever exaggerated the size of places, and had large buildings that were actually fleshed out with multiple rooms.

XY didn't exaggerate the size of individual areas, but it did exaggerate the size of the entire region. Having huge amounts of empty space on the map with plenty of room for extra areas and referecing places that weren't explorable certainly made the region feel like it should've been much bigger.

 

[Esserise]

Having huge amounts of empty space on the map with plenty of room for extra areas

What "huge amounts of space"? And how did Alola not do this? Be specific.

and referecing places that weren't explorable

Please say "Southern Kalos" and mention those two tissue-thin references that were either in a map description that no one reads or locked behind an event and in a notebook that players are given virtually no directive to find and read (and which gives no reward, making it entirely flavorful).

 

[IncineROAR]

Alola is smaller than I would have liked. The one thing I liked about older regions was the open areas that you can explore.

Unova is a great example of a region with lots of areas to explore.

 

[Ereshkigal]

What "huge amounts of space"? And how did Alola not do this? Be specific.

If it's what I think they're talking about... then it's basically true of every game before Sun and Moon.