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SPOILERS: What do you NOT like about USUM?

debates about Rugrats canon
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Pretty sure you die if you free yourself. I don't think those Pokemon were alive lol
While cryogenic preservation for humans isn’t a reality, it has been a staple of sci-fi for decades. Those Pokémon are alive, they’re just in suspended animation. As underlined by the fact that there’s an NPC in the labs who says that she will take care of the Pokémon so that one day they can return to their previous state. She even says that they’re in a cryogenic sleep.

Also she does try to murder Nebby
This, however, is true. That said, she has a somewhat understandable reason for doing it, as she explains. She needs it to open a wormhole in order to go to Necrozma’s world so that she can prevent Necrozma from causing a disaster for Alola. Classic trolley problem. (It’s not really justifiable in SM, but of course, in that version of the story, Necrozma was never brought to her attention, so she was left saddled with her unhealthy obsession. Without something more altruistic to pour her energy into, she just sort of goes off the deep end. But then, SM also aren’t focused on redeeming her so quickly.)

Yeah... US/UM Lusamine isn't less of a bad person as her original counterpart. She just doesn't get her behind properly kicked.
I mean, she completely and utterly fails to stop Necrozma. As soon as she shows up in its world, it runs wild and kicks her right back out. To her, that cuts rather deep, since it proves that she isn’t capable of doing anything to stop the oncoming crisis. She’s not able to protect anything when it really counts. Which is what precipitates her decision to change.

She still froze gods know how many pokemon in cryostasis. Even if in pokemon universe they can survive such things, even characters in the game do not think it's okay so.. yeah. It might not 100% be murder but it's still a traumatizing act to put on a pokemon who thought she loved them.
We don’t really know that. Granted that we’re dealing with a flexible sci-fi concept, but cryostasis isn’t always portrayed as traumatic... frankly, in my experience, it very rarely is portrayed that way (typically I see the “trauma” coming into play if, like, somebody is left in cryostasis for a hundred years or so and they wake up in a world very different from the one they knew, but that’s an unintended byproduct, not a problem with the actual act of freezing). In most portrayals I see, you’re just unconscious for the time you’re under, like being anesthetized.

It’s still an egregious violation of those Pokémon’s agency and an unhealthy overreaction to her insecurities, but it’s probably not torture.
 
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Preserving pokémon so they'll always be beautiful is still exceptionally screwed up no matter how you try to paint it

Doesn't help that there's a book in the Malie Library that mentions the same (types of) pokémon she's got frozen are part of a kid's story

Which...

May mean those pokémon have been frozen for decades, depending when Lusamine started obsessing over beauty
 
debates about Rugrats canon
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Doesn't help that there's a book in the Malie Library that mentions the same (types of) pokémon she's got frozen are part of a kid's story
That’s just a ridiculous fan-theory meant to make things seem edgier than they have any need to be.

You can spot the trio mentioned in the book up on a cliff at Pikachu Valley:



The fact that Lusamine has three of those species in her tanks is just coincidence, especially since they were already in there in SM while the children’s book and Pikachu Valley are only present in USUM. They would most likely have been thought up loooong after Lusamine’s cryo room was designed.
 
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It would be really nice if Pokemon games came with adjustable difficulty levels (assuming it's even possible to program difficulty levels into an RPG). .
I figure you dont play much outside of Pokemon? Pokemon is one of the few franchises without a difficulty option
 
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So..much..useless.dialogue... from NPCs.... god please shut up and let me play! I saw somewhere a meme about describing pokemon gens in 4 words and the one for Gen VII was "Dialogue equal content, right?" and that was accurate.

So far, VII is by far my least favourite generation. I do like quite a few pokemon, the whole defending the title as champion etc. But these unending dialogues.... AAAAHHH!

Sorry, Im not a patient person by nature, and if this was engagin (like Gen V or even Platinum in Gen IV), then I'd be into it. But its not, so Im not.

Oh, and I dont like Z-moves, at all. (wont even mention alolan exeggutor...)
 
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Just it being too similar to the old SM. Like I actually haven't finished it yet because I got pretty bored (though I am almost done with it, just need to put the time into it). I loved SM's story, and while there are some differences in this one, it just got kind of boring.
 
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Also they ruined Lana
How? I'm just curious because she wasn't really one of the more outstanding captains from Sun/Moon for me and I thought her trial was one of the more challenging ones in both sets of games.

As far as Lusamine goes, she is still one of my biggest problems in US/UM. She does lose to Necrozma after all of her efforts to stop it, but she still got a happier ending than she deserved. She still acted like an abusive/manipulative mother and still got a better relationship with her children by the end of the games. While I enjoyed the Team Rainbow Rocket special, the fact that saving Lusamine was a key part of it didn't work for me mainly due to how I didn't care that she was in danger. Lillie being worried about her made sense for her character, but I didn't care about her at all after the course of the games. She just doesn't deserve redemption when her behavior was almost exactly the same as it was in Sun/Moon up until the sudden change with Necrozma came up.
 
debates about Rugrats canon
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How? I'm just curious because she wasn't really one of the more outstanding captains from Sun/Moon for me and I thought her trial was one of the more challenging ones in both sets of games.
Watch the version of her trial in SM, then watch the version in USUM. In one, she actually has personality. In the other, she’s a walking instruction manual.

She just doesn't deserve redemption when her behavior was almost exactly the same as it was in Sun/Moon up until the sudden change with Necrozma came up.
See, I don’t know what people are expecting here. I get the sense that people are expecting some kind of punishment to befall her, so first of all, what exactly kind of punishment do we have in mind?

And second of all, why are we expecting a punishment to begin with? Pokémon has for the most part never worked that way; its general ethos is far too saccharine and idealistic. Villains get one of two endings, either staunch refusal to compromise which leaves them at a dead end with no meaningful options to pursue (as seen with Cyrus, Ghetsis, and Lysandre), or they realize what they did wrong and take it upon themselves to try to atone for it. It happened with Archie and Maxie, who never faced any punishment for nearly destroying the world. It happened with Colress and Zinzolin who both knowingly and willingly participated in a terrorist organization; hell, Colress even shows up as a heroic character in USUM. It even happened with Giovanni before HGSS put their retcon glove on.

That’s just the way the series likes to approach its villainous characters, and I think Lusamine was already a good deal more sympathetic than several of the names listed above. And with the typical Pokémon approach to these things in mind, I think they do a good job of having her gradually acknowledge each of her failings and express a resolve to do better.

After the RR Episode, you can talk to her and she’ll say this:

> “I am Lusamine. I am the president of this foundation and mother to Gladion and Lillie. And while I will pour my love into protecting Pokémon and my children from pain... I will also try to be strong enough to watch over them without interfering from now on. That would be an even more beautiful kind of love, wouldn't you say? I learned to think this way after watching you... young [player].”

This is an exorcism of the part of her that responded to her grief and loss by trying to control her surroundings. The part of her that treated Lillie and Gladion like “ornaments,” as the latter put it. Next, when you battle her at the Pokémon League, after being defeated she says this:

> “Caring won't keep the things you love safe. But if you don't care, if you're so hard at heart, you may find you have nothing left to protect... Is that it? Maybe I can understand Lillie a little better now.”

Here, she is accepting that she can never completely guarantee the safety of the things she loves, and that she was wrong to respond to Gladion and Lillie running away by walling herself off and disowning them. She is admitting fault for nearly destroying what she had left of her family. This all started when she lost Mohn - after that happened, she wasn’t able to cope with her grief, and so she overreacted and attempted to save herself from the pain of losing even more loved ones by exerting control over them and trying to keep them close to her. But that was a fundamentally selfish action, even though she thought she was being selfless, because she ended up neglecting the needs of Gladion and Lillie. But now we can see that she understands that. And so:

> “After all, the way he smiles now... It's quite lovely, don't you think?”

Now that she has carefully considered her mistakes and acknowledged where she went wrong, she is actually able to let go of her grief and move on from Mohn. He shows up right on her doorstep, but she allows him to leave rather than trying to make him remember her.

By Pokémon standards, I think this is actually some pretty solid character work. *OK Emoji*
 
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What he said. They removed all sense of personality and just said "go fight that over there" instead of trolling you
 
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Watch the version of her trial in SM, then watch the version in USUM. In one, she actually has personality. In the other, she’s a walking instruction manual.
I honestly didn't mind that change. While she does have more personality in Sun/Moon, I thought that the whole obsession with swimmers was kind of strange and annoying.

Esserise said:
See, I don’t know what people are expecting here. I get the sense that people are expecting some kind of punishment to befall her, so first of all, what exactly kind of punishment do we have in mind?

And second of all, why are we expecting a punishment to begin with? Pokémon has for the most part never worked that way; its general ethos is far too saccharine and idealistic. Villains get one of two endings, either staunch refusal to compromise which leaves them at a dead end with no meaningful options to pursue (as seen with Cyrus, Ghetsis, and Lysandre), or they realize what they did wrong and take it upon themselves to try to atone for it. It happened with Archie and Maxie, who never faced any punishment for nearly destroying the world. It happened with Colress and Zinzolin who both knowingly and willingly participated in a terrorist organization; hell, Colress even shows up as a heroic character in USUM. It even happened with Giovanni before HGSS put their retcon glove on.

That’s just the way the series likes to approach its villainous characters, and I think Lusamine was already a good deal more sympathetic than several of the names listed above. And with the typical Pokémon approach to these things in mind, I think they do a good job of having her gradually acknowledge each of her failings and express a resolve to do better.
Well, I don't think I was expecting a punishment to befall Lusamine per say. It's more like I didn't want her to get an easy redemption, especially when she acts pretty much the same in US/UM as she does in Sun/Moon. Plus, she didn't have to deal with the consequences of her actions nearly as long in US/UM as she did in Sun/Moon. She was defeated by Necrozma, but she was fine afterwards instead of still feeling the effects of merging with Nihilego as she did in Sun/Moon. I'm not saying that she had to be punished exactly, but I don't think she deserved a happy ending either. While other characters got away with doing worse, it might just bother me more because an abusive/manipulative person feels like a more personal threat than someone who was responsible for nearly destroying the world or helping with a terrorist organization. Maybe I'm just more used to characters causing more widespread destruction getting off with easy redemption, but I think that a character being emotionally abusive/manipulative towards her children shouldn't be so quick and easy to redeem. At least with characters like Colress and Giovanni, some time has passed in-universe for them to reflect on their behavior so that their change can feel more natural. With Lusamine, it just happens.

Esserise said:
After the RR Episode, you can talk to her and she’ll say this:

> “I am Lusamine. I am the president of this foundation and mother to Gladion and Lillie. And while I will pour my love into protecting Pokémon and my children from pain... I will also try to be strong enough to watch over them without interfering from now on. That would be an even more beautiful kind of love, wouldn't you say? I learned to think this way after watching you... young [player].”

This is an exorcism of the part of her that responded to her grief and loss by trying to control her surroundings. The part of her that treated Lillie and Gladion like “ornaments,” as the latter put it. Next, when you battle her at the Pokémon League, after being defeated she says this:

> “Caring won't keep the things you love safe. But if you don't care, if you're so hard at heart, you may find you have nothing left to protect... Is that it? Maybe I can understand Lillie a little better now.”

Here, she is accepting that she can never completely guarantee the safety of the things she loves, and that she was wrong to respond to Gladion and Lillie running away by walling herself off and disowning them. She is admitting fault for nearly destroying what she had left of her family. This all started when she lost Mohn - after that happened, she wasn’t able to cope with her grief, and so she overreacted and attempted to save herself from the pain of losing even more loved ones by exerting control over them and trying to keep them close to her. But that was a fundamentally selfish action, even though she thought she was being selfless, because she ended up neglecting the needs of Gladion and Lillie. But now we can see that she understands that. And so:

> “After all, the way he smiles now... It's quite lovely, don't you think?”

Now that she has carefully considered her mistakes and acknowledged where she went wrong, she is actually able to let go of her grief and move on from Mohn. He shows up right on her doorstep, but she allows him to leave rather than trying to make him remember her.

By Pokémon standards, I think this is actually some pretty solid character work. *OK Emoji*
Admittedly, I haven't faced Lusamine as a challenger yet in either game, so I haven't seen those scenes yet. That being said, I don't think it's enough to make the redemption work for me. She may have recognized that her actions were wrong, even she was partly acting out of grief and wanting to keep what she cares about safe, but it feels too insincere to me. Instead of something that happens more naturally over the course of her appearances in the games, it just feels slapped on in an attempt to make Lusamine look less like a terrible parent. If her behavior hadn't been exactly the same from Sun/Moon or if more time had passed for Lusamine to reflect on her behavior, maybe these redemption scenes could have worked. Even showing Lillie talking to Lusamine while you're fighting Necrozma could have helped, as well as provide a better ending for Lillie's storyline in US/UM. As it is, it just felt too forced to work for me.
 
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Now for the things I don't like of USUM

The fact that since this is an alternate story means that the one in S/M is never going have any closure/ dlc to end it. If you want a closure plot involving the same P.C character and Lillie from this.... you are going to have to make fanfiction because S/M left me wanting more and seeing where it all actually ends.

The other thing, Lillie losing focus in the main story.

They showed Lusamine to be less horrible in this game and the fact that Lillies I want to be a trainer and travel with you speech is moved from Exeggutor island to the end of Rainbow Rocket.

Meaning Exeggutor Islands scene was rendered not needed since the above things were done. (Less Lillie time means less story, thus weaker.)

And the fact Lillie and Lusamine DID talk about the problems... off screen and we only got to saw the end result. (Less screen time means less story.)

All that made Lillie's story which was most of USUM's main story weaker by default. (From a 4/5 star to a 3/5 star)

I personally like USUM's story more for its closure (I get sick of people over blowing it by saying it butchered Lillies story etc when the depths of her story are there... if you actually look. The closure and other things coming together makes up for what is a less focused Lillie story.)

Another nit pick, the Ultra Recon Squad. While I didn't mind Necrozma when we got to him, these guys only exist to foreshadow him and nothing more. (Ultra Megaopolis was a fancy hall way so that is kind of a waste of a pretty place... and I rather we captured Poipole ourselves.)

Most third members of the mascot trio honestly get shoehorned to the plot in worse ways so I didn't mind the Necrozma additions.

The Recon Squad themselves have done NOTHING on screen... and yes these guys admit they suck as trainers.
 
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Now for the things I don't like of USUM

The fact that since this is an alternate story means that the one in S/M is never going have any closure/ dlc to end it.
This is why I feel like USUM would have worked just as well as a sequel. Have a year pass, which is enough for Lusamine to heal up and get in a position to redeem herself. Then her actions still would make sense, as she is self-centered with a huge need for control, but not necessarily cruel (she does cruel things, but I don't think that's a core character trait). This also gives Necrozma enough time to establish itself as a threat, and allow the URS to appear in Alola's dimension in search of Necrozma.
 
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I didn't enjoy the Ultra Recon Squads Furfrou and it's headbutt one bit.

That and the Ultra Recon Squad is completely useless and we should have been able to explore Megalopolis.
 
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Very shallow customization options .Most of them were just things like t-shirts, tank tops, short, and hats. XY gave us many more options than Gen VII did as a whole, which is one of the few things XY did well. Seriously, some of the best options are insanely expensive or hard to find, or both even. And the fact that certain styles/colors are version exclusive was just plain stupid. And they should also stop making gender differences so pronounced, since not all girls are girly-girls and such. GF really needs to fine-tune their customization options in future gens, as giving us such shallow options can't allow people to express themselves in avatar form in full.
 
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My only real quibble (and it’s a big one) is that the Rotom Dex is just downright obnoxious. It’s cute at first and I even enjoyed it to begin with. But God above does it go on.

Talking when I want to see the map.

Accidentally tapping the wrong spot on the touch screen for the map, so he talks some more.

Constantly seeking love and attention.

The slots pause the game.

Why can’t we have something useful down there? In Gen 6 the bottom screen was great. In this it’s just bloat. I can’t even see the map half of the time. Why couldn’t we have the Pokénav again? One step forward and two steps back.

Why?
 
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My only real quibble (and it’s a big one) is that the Rotom Dex is just downright obnoxious. It’s cute at first and I even enjoyed it to begin with. But God above does it go on.

Talking when I want to see the map.

Accidentally tapping the wrong spot on the touch screen for the map, so he talks some more.

Constantly seeking love and attention.

The slots pause the game.

Why can’t we have something useful down there? In Gen 6 the bottom screen was great. In this it’s just bloat. I can’t even see the map half of the time. Why couldn’t we have the Pokénav again? One step forward and two steps back.

Why?
Pokénav was perfection. Obviously they wouldn’t keep it. Rotom dex was great in theory, but when they just turned it into Navi from OoT it just ends up sucking. They could have given it dexnav functions but NOOOOO, make it cry 24/7 because this child won’t tap it’s stupid face.
 
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This is why I feel like USUM would have worked just as well as a sequel. Have a year pass, which is enough for Lusamine to heal up and get in a position to redeem herself. Then her actions still would make sense, as she is self-centered with a huge need for control, but not necessarily cruel (she does cruel things, but I don't think that's a core character trait). This also gives Necrozma enough time to establish itself as a threat, and allow the URS to appear in Alola's dimension in search of Necrozma.
But at this point it is up to the fanfic writters.

I have a fanfiction called Through The Sands We Go that is in at least four sites. Archive of our own, Fanfiction.net, Serebii and Space Battles that takes place exactly a year after and I am making a rather long planned series.
 
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You can, actually, but... as far as I can tell, it requires deleting your save file and starting over.
If you ever find yourself wanting to restart the game, here's a tip: don't touch Rotom. Leave him be. Never talk to him. Let him rot.
... Never mind, I actually like having a save file where I still have 12 more boxes to breed.
 
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That they threw away the post-game Ultra Beast Missions and replaced them with lore-breaking rainbow fanservice.

Ultra Beast missions added tons of lore to the UBs, explaining their origins, and gave several characters a lot of important extra character development. Yet they delete that completely, and replace it with a post-game story where they randomly pull all villain team leaders from "alternate universes where the player character wasn't there to stop them."

Not only is alternate universes a very poor way of progressing a story, it doesn't even add anything meaningful to Alola's lore. It's just there to put all villain team leaders together in one spot, in an attempt to appeal to older players who had played all those previous games before.
It wouldn't even bother me if it were its own standalone thing, but it actively weakened Alola's lore by replacing the Ultra Beasts' lore completely, and that is unacceptable imo.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I think that the new Ultra Beast areas (found through Ultra Wormholes) actually add a fair amount to the Ultra Beast's lore, particularly Guzzlord's area.

I've played all the games from being a kid, but Rainbow Rocket didn't add anything for me, either. Mainly because it was just a gauntlet of Rocket grunts with Rocket Pokémon with little variation other than the leaders. Did not get the nostalgia hit that I was expecting.
 
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Rainbow Rocket would have been much better if they'd been spread across the islands and had their own storyline. Maybe one mission per team leader, kinda like the UB Missions?
As it is, it feels like they just put them all together without much substance. Taking over Lusamine's mansion is one thing (and Festival Plaza), but imagine if they had taken over lots of other places in Alola, and we had to push them back out. They would have felt like more of an actual threat then.
Yeah, a multi-island mission would've been cool - with each island themed around each leader somehow. Or they could've just made it so that the areas within the castle were more ... themed. An aquarium for Team Aqua. That kind of stuff.

What would've made it for me too, honestly, would've been if the grunts weren't all Team Rocket. It would've been nice to have seen the other Team's grunts represented.
 
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