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What do you think of Sun and Moon so far?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Anime and Manga' started by Unbeatable HoennMon, May 19, 2017.

  1. Unbeatable HoennMon

    Unbeatable HoennMon Smarter than Smarties and Tougher than Toughies

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    So, what do you think about SM? You find this series boring/interesting, better/worse than previous series?
    You think it's nice to watch? Or maybe watching this is a chore for you?
    Personally- this is the best season since 2010, maybe plot isn't extremely addictive but it's just nice to watch, that's all. What I don't like, is that TRio don't appear in every episode, but, on the other hand, when they appear, i see the best, focused on their job, TRio since early AG episodes.Moreover, i like Ash's pokemon and their relations with other pokemon ( especially Rockruff and Rowlett). What is more- Ash's companions, they're really interesting characters with great potential to me. Mallow and Sophocles- my favourite characters, episodes with these two are just...funny and, as i said, nice to watch ( what reminds me AG ). Lillie- I like such mysterious characters and, I think, she and her brother will be very importnat for the plot witch will be more and more interesting. To sum up- maybe it's not such a good series like OS, AG and DP ( finally we have no Brock in SM- we only had wig looked like his hair :D ) but it's the best since Dawn and Brock left the show to me.
    And what do you think about Sun and Moon series?
     
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  2. martianmister

    martianmister マーシャンミスター

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    It would be better to open this thread after the 28th episode, milestone of SM's first fifth.
     
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  3. Wishy-Washy

    Wishy-Washy Member

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    I find this series really interesting, better than the previous series. I like the character interaction between Ash his Pokemon and the classmates, I also like how the Pokemon and Classmates are getting more focus than previous series with the Pokemon appearing out of their Pokeballs much more than past serious and the classmates getting their own focus episode which really help make me like them. Personally I like how Team Rocket isn't shoved into every episode with their own focus episode like episode 12 and episode 25 which were both really good and reminded me why I liked them after how they were changed in BW and how they were more plot devices than interesting characters in XY
     
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  4. Unbeatable HoennMon

    Unbeatable HoennMon Smarter than Smarties and Tougher than Toughies

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    About TRio- I really appreciate their own episodes- they're so...hmmm how to put it...classic there. I also love their relationship with Bewear.
    And episodes focused on Ash's companions- for me it' really important thing and actually makes this series more interesting, cause there are five of them so we won't get bored because of focusing on one plot or even two :D
    @martianmister
    Maybe you're right but we'll see if 28 will be really so important :D
     
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  5. Cresselia92

    Cresselia92 Dream Guardian

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    My opinion? Mostly unchanged. I didn't like it at the beginning, I still don't like it for the same reasons.

    Jarring art style (yes, it didn't yet grow on me), underdeveloped characters with little to no purpose (aside of Lillie and, maybe, Lana and Gladion), excess of comedy (even if it somewhat toned down recently, but it's still way above my standards), lack of battles (huge fan of battles, so I'm really annoyed by this), extremely slow pacing… same flaws and poor handling, same frustration and overall lack of interest.

    I gave it several chances. It blew it all these times. And I'm really sick of waiting for some more progress to be made and this stagnancy to finally end.

    I'm only following whatever little plot there is just to get an understanding of where the story is going if it is actually going somewhere, that's it, and see the few episodes that actually get my interest. For the most part, I try to stay as away as I can and not spend time with something that I clearly don't enjoy.

    Still waiting for the group to get to Akala, just to see if the plot will finally start going. If not… well… I will just wait for whatever next saga there will be and hope that it will better fit my tastes.

    For now, I've mostly been disappointed by SM. Not even BW disappointed or made me uninterested to this level (even though BW has its own slew of flaws, but this is another story for another day). So… this is it. This shows that you can't satisfy everybody.

    I'm glad that many people like this series and find it funny, but it simply isn't my cup of tea. And I doubt, at this point, it will ever be.
     
    #5 Cresselia92, May 19, 2017
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
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  6. Unbeatable HoennMon

    Unbeatable HoennMon Smarter than Smarties and Tougher than Toughies

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    I agree- show can't satisfy everybody.
    It depends what you expect from the show- you're into battles and plot so it's clear you're not SM fan. I want the Anime to be funny and nice to watch- so I find SM as fresh air after difficult years with BW and XY (honestly- these series were totally boring to me). Of course, it's nice to see your point of view because SM is not an ideal series and has some...problems (f.E. with plot)- ideal seasons were seasons 1 and 6...and maybe 3 to me :D
     
  7. Sakuraa

    Sakuraa #Hoennhatisbesthat

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    Overall, I'm not pleased with it. I'm still not fond of the changes in art style and animation, though I've gotten used to it. I also didn't appreciate the changes the made to the Melemele Trial, but they have 6 more Trials where they can hopefully do things as done in the games. And then there's Pikachu's new personality...no. Just no. I can't stand how childish they've been making him act. I get that they want a funnier appeal, but making Pikachu do things like play with a wig when he's supposed to be doing something for Ash and sleep when important things are going on is not funny at all. It's so off putting and makes it seem like he's not taking anything seriously.

    The biggest issue right now is how slow everything is moving. The fact that Ash is stuck at school (ironically he isn't there as often as I expected him to be) means that he can't just do his own thing and it feels like no progress is being made. All he's done is caught a few Pokemon and beat the Melemele Trials in nearly 30 episodes. Ash should have headed off to Akala long ago; he hasn't done anything major since defeating Hala. Which makes sense since after beating Hala in the games, you leave since there's nothing else to do. Why they insist on keeping him there for so long is so confusing to me. It doesn't help that Ash just seems way too relaxed about everything. I get that they're going with a different vibe this time around, but Ash doesn't even seem like he wants to make progress with the Island Trials half of the time. He just goofs around with his friends all day and it just doesn't feel like Ash.

    The classmates are decent, but sometimes they just feel pointless. Kiawe is there for Z-Move purposes, but he barely talks about it. At the very least he's done training practice with Ash so that's good, but it could be better. Sophocles and Lana, along with their Pokemon are funny, and Sophocles just had a nice episode, but they could have more going for them. They get overshadowed by the others a lot. Mallow has done absolutely nothing of interest in nearly 30 episodes and is probably the least interesting classmate to me. Only Lillie has something going on with her Pokemon fear, but even that hasn't been addressed since capturing Shiron. Though I assume they'll focus more on it later. Plus they have the entire Aether plot they can start with Lillie later so I have no worries about her. I think trying to focus on 6 characters has been a big mistake and another reason why things have been going so slowly.

    Overall. Sun and Moon is not off to a good start in my opinion. I'm hoping they'll start incorporating more things from the plot of the games soon, since they have so much they can work with to make an interesting story.
     
  8. Unbeatable HoennMon

    Unbeatable HoennMon Smarter than Smarties and Tougher than Toughies

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    When it comes to undeveloped plot- I totally agree with you- but I fell SM is not about breathtaking actions and stories...I feel it's something to watch just 4 fun ( that's why I've been waiting for XY's ending- too much about plot, nothing about fun :D ). Actually, sometimes...maybe...this series reminds me Indigo League Season ( of course, worse version :D )- for me it's just...nice and that's all. I would say 8/10.
    About companions- I agree with you up to the point- of course you're right there are a lot of them and it might cause trouble, but on the other hand- thanks to this, when you don't like some characters, you can focus on another of them. For example- in XY Ash had 3 companions. I wasn't a fan of Bonnie, Clemont and XY version of Ash- so interesting thing in Kalos for me was Serena's story- in Alola we have a lot of characters- something for everyone, I would say. Moreover, I totally agree with you that Kiawe, Lillie, Sophocles, Lana and especially Mallow ( who is my favourite character...I don't know why but sometimes she reminds me Misty :D ) need to be developed and I hope we'll watch this :D
     
    #8 Unbeatable HoennMon, May 20, 2017
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  9. Islander Princess

    Islander Princess My Blue Sweetheart

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    I am still loving it! There are a lot of things SM is doing that I'm really enjoying and feel that the anime has been missing for quite some time. Every series tends to get weaker as it goes on, so I'm still a little wary about that, but right now I am liking SM so much more than a majority of the past series we've recently gotten.

    The biggest draw for me are the characters. I haven't been this invested in a group of characters since early BW. I absolutely love the human characters in the show, and the SM ones stand out in such a great way. I love their different personalities, the different relationships, all of that. I also like that each one has gotten a decent amount of focus so far. I was really worried about the amount of main characters, because the 4 that were in XY were so badly handled I didn't even want to imagine what the 6+ in SM would be. But so far, I think they've handled it very well! I feel like the lack of traveling definitely attributes to that, which was also something I was originally worried about. It's a different direction and right now, it feels like a breath of fresh air. I won't mind if they start to travel in the future, although then I do worry more about the quality of the characters.

    Tone and pace are also a big win for me right now. I'll probably get dragged for this, but my least favorite Pokémon episodes are the ones that try and pack way too much action into one sitting, or try and take themselves too seriously. I really hate sitting through something and feeling like it's a chore, which for me is what the past few years have felt like. I look forward to every SM episode. Each one has been so easy and joyful to watch. I don't need high stakes to enjoy an episode (that actually tends to ruin them for me) so the fact that I can just sit down and enjoy these episodes for what they are has been a treat. The humor is also well done, I feel. I have laughed out loud during quite a few episodes, which hasn't happened in I don't know how long.

    I also feel like this is a real return to form for Ash. He's not super happy-go-lucky without a care in the world all the time and got a little bit of his snark back. Not quite as much as I'd like, but after what we've recently gotten out of him, or lack thereof, I will totally take it. It feels like he's got a more distinct personality again. It's also enjoyable that the others aren't constantly enamored by him and won't hesitate to call him out or correct him or whatnot. He feels more like a 10 year old kid again and not like this weird, more mature persona he was turning into that just didn't really make sense.

    Oh, and the art and animation is just stunning. I was one of the people who couldn't stand the art style change at first and thought it looked horrific. Now I'm really loving it! It fits the tone of the series so well. I couldn't imagine SM with the insanely sharp lines of XY or the huge, shiny eyes of BW. Those styles fit those series just fine, but SM's fits it to a T. The movement also looks more realistic, and I find the colors used in SM much easier on the eyes.
     
  10. Unbeatable HoennMon

    Unbeatable HoennMon Smarter than Smarties and Tougher than Toughies

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    I agree with your every single word and couldn't agree more :D About episodes, Ash's character, art style...shortly- this season is so...funny, nice to watch...And this is what i love in Pokemon :D
    As you said- 6 main characters in SM are handled much better than 4 in XY- maybe because XY was...dramatic, yeah, i think that's it.
    As i said- for me these SM episodes are the best since Brock and Dawn left...watching BW and XY really was a chore for me :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: :p:p:p
    The best thing in SM i find personalities- I mean Ash's, Pikachu's and TRio's- they are just in OS- focused on aim, but funny, with sense of humour, without dramatic, sad actions :D
    And nice to know somebody sees SM in the same way as me :D
     
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  11. jonathan keller

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    Well... here are my problems with sun&moon

    The lack of trial captains- One of the biggest things that got me ( and maybe a few other people) hyped up was the trial captains. They were supposed to be something unique only to alola. It was going to be a change-up from the same old boring gym leader formula. And what do they do?

    They take the whole trial captain concept away, and they turn them into classmates. A good chunk of alola's lore gone right there. They could've just as easily made ash do the trials, then maybe befriend the trial captains and then they choose to follow him on his journey from there.

    Ash-What's ironic about this whole thing is ash was supposed to 'graduate like never before' yet he's hardly ever in school. Almost 30 episodes in and he's mostly farting around with his classmates, and going to concerts,etc.

    The ash I knew and am used too, would constantly be training. Always have his goal in mind until he finally accomplishes said goal (except win pokemon leagues, he can never seem to do that).

    Instead, this series we get to see him do stuff that we hardly ever see him do like ...sleep, hang around at kukui's house, do laundry, sleep some more, cheat on projects, fart around even more, throw up on pikachu, and last but not least get hit in the nuts by a milotic. It's boring.

    You could even tell that the animators are not taking ash seriously anymore. Just take a look at last week's episode, SM026. The way they gave ONLY ash that idiotic walk, as funny as it was, it confirmed that ash has just been reduced to a joke.

    They only give the ridiculous facial expressions and all the "dumb" moments if you will to ash. And for those who think kiawe had some over-the-top expressions as well...he did. But those were justified because he was angry at ash for losing something that was very important to him and he took that very seriously.

    But all the injuries, all the silly moments only went to one person...ash.

    As many have stated before. There's no sign of ash actually wanting to get off that island. Now they're throwing us little crumbs such as the sketch of ash visiting some kind of guardian's ruins, and gladion mentioning the akala island trial to him, but we don't know when those are going to happen. It could be in the next 5 episodes...or the next 50.


    The battles- Now here's something that really gets under my skin. The battles are SO DAMN SHORT. They're not even battles, they're scuffles. And ash's latest fight with gladion proved it.

    They're putting less time in the quality of the battles to make more time for silly "slapstick" comedy just to appeal to young children. The battles is one of the most memorable things about pokemon, and for them to spend literally 15-30 SECONDS on them is irritating.

    The comedy- The so-called comedy is not funny anymore. In fact it's lazy comedy. Instead of taking time to write something funny, or something funny happen unintentionally, they're version of comedy is ridiculous faces and a stupid bewear gag.

    Both of those got pretty boring fast.

    Now sometimes they're comedy works such as the time when lillie threw to pokeball to catch the alolan vulpix. All you saw was her throw the ball up in the air, then you heard a whistling sound, and then it hit ash on the head. That was a pretty funny scene.

    There was no "Ash watch out!!!" or "Look above you ash!!!" to ruin the momentum of the joke. It was just silence, then a whistling sound, then the pokeball landing on ash's head.

    Stuff I like:

    The characters- The way mallow, kiawe,and ash went out of there way to throw a party and do all that stuff for sophocles because they thought he was leaving was special. THAT'S how you could tell they were good friends.

    And the icing on the cake was when sophocles revealed to them that he was only moving down the road. They didn't get mad. They smiled, they were happy they got to keep a friend. No other series showed ash's companions like that. They usually just abused him.

    They are like a "family" kinda. Mallow being the "older sister" type figure, kiawe being the ' protective older brother', lana being the quiet sister, but once you make her mad watch out, and sophocles being the fat kid no one cares about(just kidding, haha)


    Anyway, i've rambled on enough. While it could certainly do better. I'm pleased with the series currently. I'll give it a solid 7/10
     
  12. Cresselia92

    Cresselia92 Dream Guardian

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    Huh… we must have been watching different shows, because I didn't see any of that.

    What kind of focus did the characters actually get? How did their chapters contribute to their characters? How did they actually grow?

    I know that Pokémon has never been a show famous for its plot, but even OS had a sense of progression and the characters actually developed. The relationship between Ash and Misty is a good example, which showed how they changed from rather rocky to more stable and respectful.

    From what I have gathered by watching the episodes of SM, this is what we have gotten so far:

    Lillie - Showed to be afraid of touching Pokémon for an unknown reason. She got Shiron, managing to somewhat get over her fear, and became comfortable enough to carry it around. Then, she revealed to live in a mansion with a butler and we got to see that she has a brother. So far, she is the one character who has gotten actual development. However, since getting Shiron, she hasn't shown any intent in trying to get over her phobia. Even having her trying to approach a Pokémon and ultimately freaking out would be enough, because that would show that she is at least trying.

    Kiawe - Started his friendship with Ash in a quite rocky way, but got over it fairly quickly, after we got to see his family. We saw his role as a carrier, as well as his protectiveness toward his sister. We saw that he has rather… fiery and overly passionate expressions. He also has shown to have a Z-Ring and even offered to help Ash with Z-Moves, but he rarely used his own Z-Moves, and they trained only a couple of times together. So, his potential currently feels kinda wasted and barely used.

    Sophocles - Unknown goal in life, but we know he is afraid of the dark and uses his electric rodent as a lamp. We saw his family and saw his overly sensitive side when he thought he had to move away. Oh, and caught an electric bug as well! Very fascinating, but the fact that he got over the whole move thing just because he found out halfway through the episode smells like missed potential to me.

    Mallow - We know that her family wants to become the best chefs. We saw her cooking… once? I'm not even sure anymore. She is very friendly toward Lillie… just like she is friendly toward everyone else. Her Pokémon went all shoujo and evolved like a magical girl. Yawn… I'm bored already. Such blandness is seriously disappointing.

    Lana - Reveals of wanting to travel around the world in a balloon… and did nothing to try to accomplish said goal. The most we got close to that was when Rowlet and Popplio got carried away, and that was mostly an accidental thing rather than some failed practice. I mean, if you want to achieve that goal, train for it! Don't expect Disney magic to fall on your lap and make your dream magically come true. Work for it, gal! And… ah, nice to meet your family, I guess.

    Ash - Let's see here… he caught three Pokémon, faced Totem Gumshoos, faced Hala, faced Tapu Koko twice and may have gained a rival in the form of Gladion. …Sigh, in past series he did all of these things much quicker, and he didn't lose too much time with random activities. At least he has showed to train… but if he isn't going to showcase the results of said training with some battles, then what is the freaking point? I seriously hope there is some foreshadowing in that, because I can't recognize Ash anymore. Unless this is M20 Ash, that's it. That could explain plenty of things and spare me a few facepalms, like the fact that he has secretly subscribed to become a crash test guy and to be treated like the idiot of the village.

    I know that many people would say that it is still too early to judge, but let's look at it: we're almost at episode 30, meaning that 7 months and two weeks of anime have already passed, excluding the breaks. If this series is going to last three years, then that means we have only around 110~ episodes to finish the development of the characters and wrap everything up. And we saw what happens when a series drags too much at the beginning and then finds itself rushing stuff to finish everything in time. Yeah, I'm looking at you, XY!

    I'm seriously not very optimistic and hopeful about this series. There are way too many irons in the fire, which risk to leave everybody and everything as an half-baked mess. And the fact that we got so little development in 27 episodes should be a proof as clear as the sun. I can't be confident at all about their development, considering that previous series with fewer characters failed miserably and in this series even Ash himself isn't progressing much!

    Like… what the heck? Having more comedy shouldn't be a deterrent for proper development. After all, the Pokémon anime is supposed to narrate a story, not to be just a simple cabaret show.

    Removing the adventure side has been a huge mistake, in my opinion. At least by traveling the characters were forced to actually face problems and potentially learn something from their experiences. Instead, by staying in one place, they are kept in a mostly sheltered area where they can waste time doing whatever thing crosses their mind, stunting any chance to actually grow and face some issues by themselves. There are been some events here and there, but they barely had any real impact on them. They just… sort of happened. Sure, I'm not expecting all events to have some meaningful impact, but I wouldn't even wish for all events to have no impact. That makes things terribly stale very fast, since it essentially implies that nothing worthwhile is happening.

    ---

    Of course, these are only my observations and opinions, and I'm not forcing anyone to agree with me, but TLTR…

    - Lillie has little progress.
    - Sophocles has little progress.
    - Kiawe has very little progress.
    - Mallow has very little progress.
    - Lana has no progress.
    - Ash has little progress.
    - Horribly slow pacing may lead to horribly rushed pacing to recover time, and that would be undesirable.
    - Give me back some adventuring already!
     
    #12 Cresselia92, May 21, 2017
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  13. SerenaToAlola

    SerenaToAlola Member

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    @Cresselia92, I think you're understanding of development is too grounded on tangible goals and achievements and in that aspect I can see why you think there's no development.

    However, I actually believe that the characters in SM actually have a lot more depth than any of the Pokemon characters before. Unlike previous series, time was spent developing their personas, allowing us to understand better why they act this way/that, their motivations etc and it's not just about them wanting something and achieving something. I find that they are actually a lot more complex and hence more engaging.

    That said, what really turns me off is Ash himself. The overreactions, the doofusy. It's like he became stupid.
     
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  14. Cresselia92

    Cresselia92 Dream Guardian

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    The problem is that we got precedents about goalless characters, and those were less than stellar. I mean, this is essentially one of Clemont's main complaints, who simply couldn't stand out despite having some pretty adorable traits (like his terrible athletic performances). Same thing happened to Serena, until she decided to become a Performer and the complaints somewhat waned (even though, other kinds of complaints emerged).

    Likewise, despite having a goal, Cilan got some flack as well because he rarely worked on it, and at some point people simply gave up on him and just enjoyed him for his flamboyant nature. However, that still didn't please fans who wished for him to be developed more and to not be relegated as only comedic character.

    And this is my issue with all of the SM characters. I'm afraid that they will turn out underdeveloped as well, and time is ticking. I'm not really asking for tangible goals (even if those would help), but even some kind of personality development would be greatly appreciated, and they still got very little in that regard in all these episodes. Don't keep them stale and completely unchanged, simply put.
     
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  15. Matleo

    Matleo Active Member

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    that battle of Lycanroc and Blastoise was nice but would love the battles to be more done and longer.
    This generation lacks in battles.
     
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  16. RetroPokeFan

    RetroPokeFan Active Member

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    Still good season so far but good digitty dawg Ash, when are you gonna pack your bags and head off to Akala man?
     
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  17. SerenaToAlola

    SerenaToAlola Member

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    I feel like they are putting in effort to make sure that the companions aren't reduced to gags tho? Granted most of the effort was put into Lillie, who is after all the main girl, and Litten; they still had more development than Clemont imo. Mallow and Lillie are indeed the least developed now but with a cast this big, we would need time imo.

    The only problem is Ash imo. He seems stupid and is a good for nothing. It's like he's just doing things cause it's ~*fun*~~!! :mad:
     
  18. SonansuMan

    SonansuMan That's the way it is.

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    It took Serena almost 50 episodes just to think of HOW she would progress with a goal. Compare that to Lillie and Lana, who already have setups that were made around the beginning of the series.

    Even though this series is doing progress as an arguably slow pace, XY didn't start to distrubute much development for anyone aside from Ash until the middle of the series. I think that excuses this.

    Since this series is also supposed to be a slice-of-life one, it can be expected that more lax episodes involving Ash will come up, instead of just usually battling and training.
     
  19. Lillie_Mallow_Lana

    Lillie_Mallow_Lana Active Member

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    Sun, and Moon is the one of the most funniest seasons. I do enjoy all of Lillie, Mallow, Suiren (Lana), and the Electric Boy. The Clash between all of the Legendary Pokemon kapu keko and Pikachu is made everyone know that Ash is not just a normal pokemon player. I do love this season.
     
  20. martianmister

    martianmister マーシャンミスター

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    This is just crazy. None of SM girls have a real goal. Between XY001-XY027 Serena get three epidodes that focuses on her, while Lilie only got two.
     
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