• NMLewis challenges his second Gym Leader. Watch here as he explores a partially lit cave and challenges some trainers on the beach.

What do you think of Sun and Moon so far?

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@may-serena-dawn
I think the same- I really enjoy this season cause it is funny- it is something you can watch when you're tired and need some rest- and maybe reminds me a little bit my beloved OS :D
@SerenaToAlola
The only problem is Ash imo. He seems stupid and is a good for nothing. It's like he's just doing things cause it's ~*fun*~~!! :mad: QUOTE said:
Actually that's why I think alolan Ash is the best Ash since...years, maybe even Hoenn :D In XY he was so...dramatic and serious...it was boring for me :D
@QueenEevee
I think Delia would do it sooner :D
 
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@may-serena-dawn
I think the same- I really enjoy this season cause it is funny- it is something you can watch when you're tired and need some rest- and maybe reminds me a little bit my beloved OS :D
Hahaha. Yup, the Story is good for enjoying. I do love the episodes for all of Lillie, Mallow, mamane, Suiren (Lana), Ash, and for kukui hakase. To me, all of Serena, May, and dawn will made a really good time with these friends. I do love this season for enjoyment time.

But one important question. I do thought about that the new movie will be for the past of Ash, which means it similar to Special Episode. Yup, I do saw pikachu when it was jump to the names of season when the all first pokemons from all seasons come in the first 20 seconds trailer, but I still thought that this movie will be like a special episode, however when I saw the pokemon marshadow, then I surprised

So the important question is this: "Is the movie for new season, or for such as a special episode?"
 
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The XY series wasn't terribad but you all know I had my fair share of problems with the Pokémon Showcase arc and the sausage fest overflowing with Mega Evolution energy that was the Pokémon League. So when I heard that Ash was going to attend school in the Sun & Moon series I was kinda looking forward to it in a strange way. Don't get me wrong, Ash's Kalos journey was good, specially after the fiasco that goes by the name of Best Wishes, but I was fed up of edgelord Alain and the little fan club Ash had in Serena, Clemont, and Bonnie. I wanted that to end and I was willing to embrace the new series.

30 episodes into SM and my will to watch it is almost vanishing. I'm not mad at the writers for abandoning the traveling aspect of the show so much as I am pissed that they promised me a school setting and are delivering anything but. Ash and his classmates are rarely shown doing school-related activities, they just goof around Melemele Island doing things that don't move the plot forward and don't exactly add value to their characters. I mean, Mallow going to a flower field to get nectar for her recipe doesn't make her an interesting enough character to make me tune in to watch the show.

I recently re-watched the Pokémon Summer Academy arc from the Diamond & Pearl series and you can feel the school atmosphere. Ash and Angie being punished for their behavior, the students competing for points, and the sense that the assignments were helping the students learn to live and work with Pokémon. There's nothing of the sort in SM. In fact, the majority of plot summaries so far are like this "Ash and the others are on a break from school..." There's no point in making a school the main setting of the series if the characters barely stay there.

I won't dive too much into the characters because I mostly agree with Cresselia92 and Sakuraa, Ash's classmates have made very little progress and they feel pointless most of the time. Six characters are a crowd. Last series we had four characters in the main cast and two of them were doing nothing. Clemont was a dead weight after he battled Ash in the Lumiose Gym (and to be honest, even before that). Who was the genius who thought adding two more characters would be reasonable? This would be a much more exciting series if the class was made of unimportant random characters and Ash was friends with Lillie and Hau only. That way the trial captains could be doing their job and helping trial goers. I'm still not over the Verdant Cavern trial. No Ilima, Ash using two Pokémon against the Totem Gumshoos rather than one Pokémon against the Totem and its ally. They ruined the trials.

I don't really have a problem with Ash acting more in line with a ten-year-old kid. His excitement when he arrived in Alola and the way he behaved around his mom were good to see. But I do believe he is acting very out of character when it comes to his goal. He hasn't lifted a finger to obtain new Z-Crystals ever since he won that battle against Hala and the Ash we know was always eager to obtain new Gym Badges. Ash is very competitive and he likes to get things done quickly and here he is just happy living with Kukui. If a warm bed is all you want then go back to Pallet Town because your mother really misses you. Due to Ash not giving a damn about the island challenge, battles are a rare thing these days, and that's problematic in my opinion.

Pikachu isn't bothering me yet. The fact he was sleeping when Ash was discussing with Hala about the trial is weird because Pikachu usually gets pumped up with these kind of things that are important to his Trainer. Although this isn't the best attitude, it's way better than throwing a tantrum for not being chosen to battle as he did in the Nimbasa Gym in BW. I can cope with Pikachu being a sleepy cat sometimes. Again, this is not ideal, but manageable.

I got used to the new art style and I'm totally okay with it. I think it fits the comedic tone of the series. At first I was terrified when I saw the official artwork of Jessie and James but now I'm fine with them. If I have to talk about one thing that bothers me then I'd say Ash's over the top facial expressions. Apparently an episode can't go by without Ash being ridiculous.

My major gripes are:
  • Ash isn't really trying;
  • the plot isn't moving forward;
  • the classmates feel pointless;
  • the trials are ruined;
  • the lack of battles is irritating;
  • the school is apparently on strike;

To end this with a small positive note I want to say that I find the Bewear gag very funny. Bewear is easily my favorite Generation VII Pokémon and seeing it being so cute and overprotective is nice.
 
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Although this isn't the best attitude, it's way better than throwing a tantrum for not being chosen to battle as he did in the Nimbasa Gym in BW.
Not helped by the fact that Ash at that time had an IQ of an incredibly dirty, mouldy, washed out cucumber that's well past it's sell by date.

Yeah, I haven't seen one thing that has bothered me involving our precious little mouse at the moment, if they do a BW on him later on, I will proceed to weakly cry on my pillow.
 
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I love it. It improves upon a lot of things that I thought was lacking from the series and it has an unpredictability to it that does a better job of holding my attention.

A big part of this is how it looks and moves. The whole show is very pleasant to look at, with soft colours and attractive character designs. It's warm and inviting, which is perfect for Alola. The animation is dynamic and a lot more interesting to look at now that there's more character animation than battle animation. It's a lot more than just goofy faces. In terms of personality and charm, Sun and Moon is the best looking season for me.

I tend to prefer comedy over action these days so the perceived lack of action and battles in the show don't bother me much. For me, Pokemon is more enjoyable when its being eccentric and funny, as opposed to being action-packed and dramatic. An episode with the characters playing a super-intense, over-the-top game of baseball sounds more fun to me now than a battle.

One of the reasons for that is that characters become more interesting to me when they're involved in diverse activities. One of the long-lasting issues for me in the anime was that outside of Pokemon very few characters seemed to have a life. Characters tended to be very goal-oriented and few of them had interesting reasons for wanting to achieve those goals. Every trainer wanted to win so they could be the best. Every coordinator wanted to win so they could be the best. Everyone just wanted to win and I gradually stopped caring. Goals are interesting when a show explores why they exist and why it matters so much for the character, but Pokemon rarely does this (does anyone know why Ash wants to be a Pokemon Master?).

Sun and Moon, so far, has shown that its characters lead lives that aren't dominated by goals, so they have more layers to them. Their personalities are better developed, because you see them in different scenarios and in different parts of life. Ash has been a big beneficiary of this, because now we don't just see Ash the trainer - we see Ash at home, Ash the student, and Ash just hanging around with his friends.

They've done a great job with the cast's Pokemon as well, giving them distinct personalities and stories.

Ultimately, Sun and Moon has been a flavour of Pokemon I like more than what's been offered before and I'm happy to wait and see what comes next.
 
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I fail to see all these layers people write about when reviewing characters from the Sun & Moon series. What trait do they have that make them so special? Seeing them doing mundane stuff doesn't make their personalities better developed.

Each character from previous series had a set of traits that had nothing to do with their goal of becoming the best in their field. Take May for instance, she loved to travel and sometimes when exploring a new location she would pretend she was hosting a show called "May's Expedition." Also, whenever one of her friends said they were hungry, she would suggest a fancy restaurant or something. She also liked to go shopping. These are all characteristics displayed by people in real life who like to travel. And it has no correlation with May being a Coordinator.

The thing I want people to understand with this post is that during the Advanced Generation series we were shown different sides of May's personality coupled with her goal to become a Top Coordinator. In the new series the main cast members either have no goal (Sophocles) or have a silly one and do absolutely nothing towards it (Lana) and so we only see them doing ordinary activities. The writers are actually delivering less content than they used to instead of "better developing" and flashing out these characters.

We have episodes in which these characters are shown doing house work but that's hardly something new. During the Twinleaf Festival Dawn was shown helping her mom wash the dishes and Brock was seen gardening outside. Admittedly these things were sporadic, but I'm not watching a show in which the characters have pets with fantastic powers because I want to see them emptying their trash cans and taking out the garbage.

This whole "SM characters have more layers" is a fallacy. Shall we compare Clemont and Sophocles to prove that? Both are blonde inventors that specialize in Electric-type Pokémon. Clemont is mortified whenever Bonnie tries to find him a wife and he is not very good at running. Sophocles is afraid of the dark and uses his Togedemaru as a night lamp. What makes Sophocles a better character here? They're both terrible.
 
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One of the long-lasting issues for me in the anime was that outside of Pokemon very few characters seemed to have a life. Characters tended to be very goal-oriented and few of them had interesting reasons for wanting to achieve those goals. Every trainer wanted to win so they could be the best. Every coordinator wanted to win so they could be the best. Everyone just wanted to win and I gradually stopped caring. Goals are interesting when a show explores why they exist and why it matters so much for the character, but Pokemon rarely does this (does anyone know why Ash wants to be a Pokemon Master?).
Absolutely agree with this. That is why I like how they are developing the characters this time round. They are adding depth to the characters by showing what motivates them. Mao's family and how it motivates her to cook, Suiren's and Kaki's family etc. What the characters do are not simply gags like Citron's science gag, Bonnie's marriage gag or even May's expedition gag but rather something that is grounded in their personal experience. Even the Pokemon have a lot more depth.Popplio's bullying, Rowlett's family, Litten's story especially. All the starters got pretty good development so far. They didn't just randomly appear in Ash's life one day.

I don't agree with Ash benefiting though. It feels like he has lost sight of his goal.
 
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In my eyes Pokemon is always an adventure/battle genre before anything else, just like the games the anime is based off of. The biggest mistake with S&M's anime is taking an excellent adventure story from the games and turning it into 30 plus episodes of Ash sitting around scratching his butt while trying to make pretend that he's making effort toward his supposed goal of mastering Z Moves. Taking the traveling and battle focus out of a Pokemon series was a huge mistake, especially when they try to force it into a slice-of-life comedy.

Not hating on those who like it. I'm just one of a group who dislike how this series is presented while there's obviously an equal amount of people who like it. Those who like it also seem to hate/strongly dislike XY's formula which was my cup of tea. So hey, I guess we all get something we want. It's not like I have any obligation to watch it if I don't like it and it's supposed to be for entertainment.

Kind of hoping there's more of a true focus goal later on but so far that's looking grim.

Also kind of disagree with S&M characters supposedly having more depth than any other Pokemon characters. At best they are presented to have depth while the writers are not doing much with that. Not saying other characters were handled as well as they should have been (Poor Clemont didn't develop after his battle with Ash sadly). Aside from Lillie who at least has a somewhat sympathetic situation (that is apparently not being focused on anymore), none of the others have shown anything that makes them above past characters. Kiawe having a family is somehow better than Brock, Misty, or May who had developed families? That's one example anyway.
 
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@Mikuri
I think sometimes it's better when character is undeveloped than when it's developed bad...like Gary.
@GoldenUmi
When it comes to me, you're right- I like SM cause it's totally opposite of XY, (The best mix of comedy and adventures was OS, but AG and DP also weren't bad at this, I guess ). For example, for me, Ash from Kalos was simply...boring. Current Ash reminds me that one from OS :D
 
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Hahaha. Yup, the Story is good for enjoying. I do love the episodes for all of Lillie, Mallow, mamane, Suiren (Lana), Ash, and for kukui hakase. To me, all of Serena, May, and dawn will made a really good time with these friends. I do love this season for enjoyment time.

But one important question. I do thought about that the new movie will be for the past of Ash, which means it similar to Special Episode. Yup, I do saw pikachu when it was jump to the names of season when the all first pokemons from all seasons come in the first 20 seconds trailer, but I still thought that this movie will be like a special episode, however when I saw the pokemon marshadow, then I surprised

So the important question is this: "Is the movie for new season, or for such as a special episode?"
There is a problem with M20- it's different universe so it is hard to say if SM is related to M20.
 
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I fail to see all these layers people write about when reviewing characters from the Sun & Moon series. What trait do they have that make them so special? Seeing them doing mundane stuff doesn't make their personalities better developed.

Each character from previous series had a set of traits that had nothing to do with their goal of becoming the best in their field. Take May for instance, she loved to travel and sometimes when exploring a new location she would pretend she was hosting a show called "May's Expedition." Also, whenever one of her friends said they were hungry, she would suggest a fancy restaurant or something. She also liked to go shopping. These are all characteristics displayed by people in real life who like to travel. And it has no correlation with May being a Coordinator.

The thing I want people to understand with this post is that during the Advanced Generation series we were shown different sides of May's personality coupled with her goal to become a Top Coordinator. In the new series the main cast members either have no goal (Sophocles) or have a silly one and do absolutely nothing towards it (Lana) and so we only see them doing ordinary activities. The writers are actually delivering less content than they used to instead of "better developing" and flashing out these characters.

We have episodes in which these characters are shown doing house work but that's hardly something new. During the Twinleaf Festival Dawn was shown helping her mom wash the dishes and Brock was seen gardening outside. Admittedly these things were sporadic, but I'm not watching a show in which the characters have pets with fantastic powers because I want to see them emptying their trash cans and taking out the garbage.

This whole "SM characters have more layers" is a fallacy. Shall we compare Clemont and Sophocles to prove that? Both are blonde inventors that specialize in Electric-type Pokémon. Clemont is mortified whenever Bonnie tries to find him a wife and he is not very good at running. Sophocles is afraid of the dark and uses his Togedemaru as a night lamp. What makes Sophocles a better character here? They're both terrible.
It's not about listing personality traits, but rather what we're shown of a character in different situations. SM's characters have a bit more to them because I don't just see them in action, I also see them in rest, in casual moments and amongst their own family. By seeing more aspects of their lives, I feel like I get to know them better than I did other characters.

Taking your May example, yes we knew she liked travelling, and yes we knew she liked food, but these have little to do with her personality. "Likes travelling" isn't a personality trait. What was May's life like before she became a trainer? Did she have friends in Petalburg she hung out with? What was she like around the house? What did she do to relax/kill time? You might ask why any of that matters, but it's the mundane things like that that give you a more complete picture of a person. For example, a loner at home who lazed about all day and watched TV to pass the time gives a completely different impression to a social butterfly always helping around the house with a ton of different hobbies. You can then use this information to either reinforce or contrast something about a character, creating a stronger character as a result.

Your Clemont/Sophocles comparison proves nothing. Firstly, you're taking a character barely 30 episodes old and comparing it to one that's had an entire season behind them, so one character has yet to have the opportunities to show more of themselves. Secondly, Sophocles has the least amount of focus thus far, and you've cherry picked him to prove your point without acknowledging the other characters. Thirdly, the recent episode about Sophocles showed us a lot about his character which you've ignored.

For what it's worth, I don't think Sophocles is a better character than Clemont. However, I do think there's more potential with Sophocles, because I've seen things about him that could be interesting when placed in certain scenarios.

Absolutely agree with this. That is why I like how they are developing the characters this time round. They are adding depth to the characters by showing what motivates them. Mao's family and how it motivates her to cook, Suiren's and Kaki's family etc. What the characters do are not simply gags like Citron's science gag, Bonnie's marriage gag or even May's expedition gag but rather something that is grounded in their personal experience. Even the Pokemon have a lot more depth.Popplio's bullying, Rowlett's family, Litten's story especially. All the starters got pretty good development so far. They didn't just randomly appear in Ash's life one day.

I don't agree with Ash benefiting though. It feels like he has lost sight of his goal.
Ash not being hyper-focused on his goal has been a good thing, though I'm probably alone in thinking that. I find that when he's fixated on a goal his personality becomes restricted, whereas at the moment other parts of his personality - the ones we don't see that often - are allowed to come out. So for me at least he becomes a better-rounded character.

Kiawe having a family is somehow better than Brock, Misty, or May who had developed families? That's one example anyway.
I don't think anyone is saying that. But if we're comparing families, Kiawe's has a lot more going for them. We saw them as a dynamic (i.e. Kiawe doting over his sister) and as a part of the world - they worship the volcano on their land, showing us they have a devotion and respect for nature. By seeing this, we get an idea how why Kiawe is who he is. Hence that's a layer to his character that, maybe, other characters didn't receive.
 
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What exactly does that mean?

He had three episodes that focused on him. More than others.
It means after Johto he became an ordinary, boring character who didn'T do anything special- in OS Gary, besides with Brock and Misty, was the most powerful, independent character.
@VTP-Dawkins93
You're NOT alone- I think current Ash id the best Ash since...maybe even 2004/05. It's just good to know, as you said, what characters do in their ,,Free Time" :D
 
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There is a problem with M20- it's different universe so it is hard to say if SM is related to M20.
Well, nice answer. Really, this question should be the question of this year; because it is so important, and so difficult to answer. I don't have any clue of what should this movie be. Is this a movie, or special episode? Is this movie, and the characters are really with ash, or new girls who want to know his story? Is this related to SM, or not?

All these questions, and I still didn't have any answer, and I didn't find any hint for answers also. Also, why mallow, suiren (lana), mamane, lillie, kukui, and kaki aren't there?

Really this question should be: "The question of the year"
 
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Well, nice answer. Really, this question should be the question of this year; because it is so important, and so difficult to answer. I don't have any clue of what should this movie be. Is this a movie, or special episode? Is this movie, and the characters are really with ash, or new girls who want to know his story? Is this related to SM, or not?

All these questions, and I still didn't have any answer, and I didn't find any hint for answers also. Also, why mallow, suiren (lana), mamane, lillie, kukui, and kaki aren't there?

Really this question should be: "The question of the year"
Ohhh questions...
1 M20Universe is only the universe created for this film or SM is the same world?
2 Why Ash dindn't mention any of his companions since 2013?
3. In XY Ash said something about Piplup- which one- Dawn's or Makoto's?
4. Did writers want to forget about the past during making XY?
5. Ok, in SM Ash mentioned Tauros, we have Wobbuffet, Mimey, we saw May's and Brock's hair ...but Ash' s memories were like: ,,Well Pikachu, I met you in Oak's laboratory and now we're here"- isn't it ridiculous?
6. This whole ,,starting from zero" thing we saw in the final of XY- what does it mean, especially now?
7. Did writers say ,,Goodbye" to all of past characters in the last BW episode? It looked like that to me...
8. Think about Ash's memories about childhood in XY- little Ash didn't look like Ash from OS and didn't act like him...
9. In XY we saw a lot of characters from Hoenn, Serena went there...so why didn'T they bring back May or even Max? It's weird....
And there are only a few of my questions..
 
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1. Probably only for the film.
2. Probably because the writers clearly don't care about continuity as much as the fans do.
3. Dawn's, Makoto didn't even exist back then.
4. They forgot but I doubt it was on purpose.
5. Whats so ridiculous about it?
6. Nothing probably.
7. Maybe, who knows.
8. Yes, but where is the question?
9. Like I said cont unity probably isn't the highest thing on the writers list of things to consider
 
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Well, my friend Wishy-Washy the problem is this movie isn't such movie. it is similar to Mewtwo return. I think they should call it a Special Episode. It is better for this movie to be a special movie more than being a movie
 
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