What do you think of the XY saga so far?

[Jammy2A]

On topic for this whole OS vs XY and the tone of the anime, I would have to agree with both sides unfortunately (I am such a decisive individual...), in the sense that, yes it was objectively bad looking at it: Ash never really wins a badge by himself and it feels like he s being assisted by Brock and Misty and that without them he d just collapse somewhere in the woods. On the other hand, this was the only time that this was logical, as it has been said, he had just gotten started, was very likeable (as a character, for other characters), and he was learning everything first-hand with Brock and Misty (being Gym Leaders), actually guiding him a lot. I do appreciate it, and I think you need to take it for what it was and not compare it to XY at all.

Each Gen should only be compared to others (e.g. this entire DP vs BW conundrum), if there is a direct continuation. Also, the Ash we all know and love didn't come into existence until the Orange Islands, which were really great and still look good today (see his battle with Drake, and his iconic moment with Charizard).

As for the tone of the anime, well it is based off a game meant for kids. Don't forget the only reason we 20-30+ people play it is because we started when we were young, don't think anyone of us here discovered pokémon at 30 and thought "Wow, what a great game, so much better than Skyrim or Final Fantasy (pre FF XIII)". So we can cut them some slack on that side as a general point (even looking in-game, you play a 10 yo, that should be a clue as to what their target segment is). However, the tone in XY is, I find, the darkest we have ever seen in the anime (bar Paul's brutality with his pokémon):
- this is the first time we see a truly evil group of pokémon bent on reshaping the entire world to their needs and manipulating others (the Malamar trio), who by the way very nearly run over Ash
- the pokémon smuggler was actually ready to physically attack Officer Jenny (which if you pay attention is something they try to avoid in the anime: physical violence between people)
- this whole episode with the Espurr and the old lady in the house which is genuinely heart braking and also that whole flabébé and the old nearly-dying lady [different episode] (again not something we are used to seeing in the anime, or I would need a reference)
- and finally Mega-Lucario going berserk and just beating the crap out of pikachu and being an inch away from literally killing Ash (dont tell me a 10 yo can take a power-up punch from a trained Mega Lucario and walk away)

I actually find the overall writing has gotten edgier, as I said before the only real piece of 'dark' was Paul's treatment of his weaker pokémon, and also Hunter J dying in her flying thingy (remember when the Lake trio use a Future sight attack and it lands on their ship destroying it, there were people inside and nobody mentions it ever O_O ).

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Well normally you put up a good point when you debate about OS but this time I completely disagree and think you didn't even try to make a convincing statement.

The character development of OS never came gradual, when some development happened, it takes so long for the change to surface as the characters are not focus a lot. Like a character had a development but only after 30 or more episode before the character got focused again. Its in fact horrible way of handling a character growth as when the episode the character is focused is aired, you might have forgotten what had happened before that caused the change, and the change felt came from nowhere. The time gap totally denies your argument on character growth. And their character growth is nowhere near convincing due to them being so not focused for such a long time. How can one people change so much after a single event in such a long journey? Instead of multiple events occurring, they got one event at a time that changes them almost completely, which is in fact why OS is horrible. And DID Ash and Misty ever developed a convincing friendship? You probably made it up in your mind. All I remember is a debt collector stalking Ash around until Ash felt comfortable with it, and the writer just kinda let her blend it.

Mewtwo's back story is a great point you brought up to kinda make your point worst. The first movie was cannon is the only reason this count as a point, other series has their own very mature movies, that just isn't cannon. Putting the movie into this argument makes your point too reliant on a movie. Sabrina's back story is a one episode thing. Misty and Brock's family is probably the only functional point here, but they are bought up only once (or maybe twice) in a long damn series.

The Anime being deviate from the game is applied to every series, not just OS, point irrelevant.

Tone is too positive in XY is another irrelevant point. If you want a negative tone, you shouldn't even be watching Pokemon, its never known for a negative tone, you might have just chose the wrong show.

The nonexistence of arguments in the group makes the interaction too friendly is true, but there is no joking and teasing among them? OOK, we might be watching a different show. And you have friend just because you can argue with them? I thought its just a way where friendships develop, not a necessity. So you mean you actually hate your helpful and considerate friend? You better go tell them that, I am sure they would be grateful to know what kind of friend you are.

So you are arguing that the concept of death is less mature than the likes of missles, guns, boobs. OK its your opinion, but I think that says a lot about you. See it as an insult if you want, whether if it was my real intention its your guess.

The conveyance of the Pokemon World being dangerous is a thing? OK this one I actually respect your opinion but I don't care much about it.

Gym Leaders on the other hand, they are supposed to give a test to trainers and hand out a badge, being rough, opportunists and grey in their interactions is wrong from every angle, even in the games. So I don't get you.

Oh so XY has well written battles while OS had more challenges? You mean Charizard pulling off an illegal move out of nowhere in a Gym Battle, pulling off type defying moves in a battle or mid-battle evolution and pulling off a new move in the process, one of them makes OS more challenging? OK, I am so done with this.

Tripokalon having no battle is a problem? OK, at first someone talked about deviation from the games, and them someone talked about the lack of battle. Fine, I don't know how to take you seriously anymore. And anything about Gym are things we call NON-FILLERS. So you are praising that OS had a crazy amount of fillers where XY actually had progression? Mind = Blown.

TR popping out to steal food or Pikachu...... of course! You are right! They appear at a rate less than XY in OS right? Yeah! Totally. Good point there. I see where you are going.

HAH! Nostalgia isn't a factor!

There is no need for arrogance or hostility.

There is old saying:

Arrogance is a roadblock on the highway of wisdom!

Because if there exists disagreements or challenge of someone else opinions not being possible to establish consensus, that can be settled in civilized, mature manner. With no personal attacks involved only hurting credibility of your statements.

You may view Original series as "epitome of bad writing". But character development doesn't only consist of storyline arcs through which direct change of chaascter ensues.

There is also thing called reading between lines in episodes, observing subtle changes in characterization which happens gradually and slowly over long period of time analyzing episodes and certain events which indicated either character gaining something from it.

Or being showed to have dilemma and internal breakes inside itself inhibiting him from moving forward.

Delivering more profined and complicated version of growth where characters dont grow just through specific episodes, but through long period in way they perceive world, learn new things and build on friendship with others. With changes starting to be noticeable after some time.

This was noticeable with all three humans. With Ash through guidance of their friends becoming more humble, mature and resoectful in way he acted or battled with Orange Islands/Johto showing improvement.

Misty becoming more thrusty of Ash and Brock judgment, more compassionate, open minded and confident in her abilities getting over inferiority complex imposed by older sisters, more tolerant as noticed in growing to accept Psyduck for who he is for example. Growing attached to Ash and Brock starting to view them as family she admitted to never had confining herself to friend Sakura from Johto on how much they changed her life.

Even Brock became less cold and stoic developing parent like feelings for Ash and Misty feeling its his duty to look after them, warn them of dangers, saw in them someone to who he could confine and search for protection regarding his issues with girls and asking Misty for advice in love. Developing lot of care and concern to thbe pooint of barely suppresing tears when saying goodbye at end of Johto.

This three indivudually didn't had maybe many episodes directly focusing on growth happening out of one circumstance(thats not disputable). But their development and evolution of friendship happened through travels, collection of experience and encounter with all kind of dangers forcing them to work together. Develop compromise and find mutual language growing to accept themselves for who they are. As noticed in gradual change of their dynamic, jokes, pranks, annoyance or support shifting from downright intolerance and dislike to care, admiration and encouragement expressing banter, fights or sarcastic inputs through more lighthearted ways.

This was noticed in numerous examples:

Spoiler

Such as Misty eventually stopping to care for bike in later half of Kanto, changing her opinion about Ash who realized how she only wanted him best through criticism and there existing mutual development of friendship between them starting to view each other in different light. Being visibly hurt and upset when Ash thought she would be happy about her bike being fixed in departure episode overlooking how she traveled because of pursuing her own dreams and growing to love her friends like family(Ash possibly more than friend) feeling comfortable wth those who would accept her as person.

Misty and Ash realizing how much they are dependant on Brock caretaking abilities and knowledge such ss when he got sick in "Sick Daze!", reflecting back on how for granted they took things he did starting to be more appreciative of everything he did.
In Ash and Misty teasing or pulling pranks being more out of endearment rather than hostlity as it was case in early episdes such as in "Taking it on Chinchou!", "Unbearable!" or "Snack Attack!" for example when talking about temper, Ash appetite or ability to get lost. Developing spark and competitive rivalry enjoying in outsmarting themselves, brag about skills and test out each other strength in friendly way. Becoming alot more caring and concerned over each other well-being whenever they were separated such as Ash and Brock ending with Jessie in "Forest Grumps!", "Misty falling of cliff in "For Crying Out Loud!", "Ash being poisoned by Vileplume spore!" etc, etc.

With Kalos cast I see zero growth of main characters relationship. From moment they met each other they had been acting like best pals with friendship between Ash, Clemont, Bonnie and Serena being characterized by only admiration, support, happiness and care ever since day one.

There was no elements which preceeded toward development of seemingly close bonds they share, no tests to determine how strong their friendship is, learning how to tolerate each other diffferences and woirk toward developing close bonds, understanding and care.
Unlike it was case with original trio.

Whole point of Serena character development and supposedly letting her past behind becoming more decisive and confident with haircut and finding her goal falls down on backburner. When take in account how much her character is still defined by her crush toward Ash to point of not being able to separate her feelings from her ambitions and dream if implications of possibly deciding to dedicate win of first Tripokakon to Ash are something to go by.

Ash himself stagnates due to not having any opposition or obstacle he needs to catch up to. Rivals, friends, just about anyone compliment on his knowledge and feats, he defeats his opponents with little to no effort(as noticed recently in completely outplaying Tuerno, Shota or gym leader Valerie)and make it feel like theres nothing for him to learn. Due to writers putting him in position where has no real adversaries, competition or struggles, selfdoubts to go through about anything.

Etc, etc.

I never mentioned how arguing is necessary to have believable, endearing friendship. But constant admiration, support and happy go luicky attitude noticed in Clemont being comletely fascinated over Ash and his heroism, Ash fawning over his inventions, Bonnie unconditionally supporting Ash, Serena looking for his approval in all of her actions viewing him as "perfect person and man of her dreams" isn't something which I would call healthy, diverse and natural chemistry either.

Especially given for how little Ash, Serena, Clemont and Bonnie know each other not letting their relationship to ferment and reach predispositions to develop closer bond between themselves.

Every human being has flaws. Has negative characteristics to themselves, can act sometime irrational, greedy or callous. Or get into fight with some other person evcen if its for petty reasons(this is part of what makes us humans too and something we cannot run away from).

Ill agree how friends dont need to argue to have believable dynamic and good relationship. I never said that either and my words were completely misinterpretated.

However occasional misunderstanding, disagreement about opinions or joking in terms of positive and balanced competition when two friends get into something can happen even among close friends or family members.

Something current Kalos cast lacks making interactions feel bland, synthetic and forced for me.

Also just because im realistic knowing how me and my friends wont always see eye to eye on everything, doesn't make me bad friend. But realist knowing how even BFF's or soul mates can have bad days not fooling myself in thinking how people can be in good mood 24/7.

Neither i think how ad hominem arguments were ever effective way in proving any point.


I cant speak for others, but in my opinion yes Ash relationship with Misty was more fluent, dimensional and interesting. Having their laughs, moments of disagreement, annoyance, coming up with witty jokes and sassy remarks over their differences. But also being there for each other caring, expressing loyalty and moral support when needed.

Reflecting genuine and realisty dynamic which exists among many humans in real life.
Something I cannot say to be situation with Ash and Serena friendship for instance feeling too limited and shallow not changing much at all.

For that reason alone I appreciated when there existed at times disagreement, conflict, joking and sarcastic remarks between friends putting themselves in awkward embarassing situations like it was case with Original trio or Hoen quartet. Making group dynamic feel all that more organic, enjoyable and engaging with underlying depth present between them.

Adding for more believable interactions than im currently receiving from XY group..

Now regarding Mewtwo argument as well as rest of excamples I brought up; those were just examples to emphasize on bigger amount of depth and maturity existing in OS . But ill say AG or DP as well compaded to XY. Its about whole tone in which previous series were written.

As for Mewtwo whole exploration of his developed disgust for human race and backstory questioining purpose behind living was covered in main anime around time Govanni gym and downfall happened, prequel to first movie and Mewtwo returns special as well.

And for record every movie can be considered canon in my book. Only difference is in some having more references and throwbacks to anime or vice versa(anime referencing movie events), while some dont contain any at all. But theres no reliable enough evidence to support theory of any of them taking place in entirely different timeline and continuity than main anime is.

You say Kalos saga touched on concept of death? Its nothing new we havent saw several times already.Maybe in different format and covering this subjects differently, but acceptabce of death and no one being immortal was brought up ever since this anime earliest days. If little Amber death leaving emotional scars on Mewtwo psyche, Ash soul being extracted from body in Lavender town making Misty and Brock appaled starting to cry, lady in Ghost of Maiden peak waiting for her loved one for centuries, Ninetales waiting for his master to return for 200 years, emphasis put on war between humans and pokemon brought up in Johto and whole Ho-oh intervention, Hunter J actually dying(most likely) in DP were something to go by.
In fact might as well add Cyrus in this too being questionable what was his destiny.

But we also saw in older series morre emphasisput on cataclysmic occurences such as big flooding in Xatu episode and being able to look in future delivering message of great responsibility coming with it. Giant Tentacruel and army of Tentacool attacking Porta Vista sending strong environment message of nature sooner or later backfiring on humans if mistreating it.

Sunk of st. Anne ship leaving viewers in suspence of whether main heroes survived or not putting them in several life threatening situations(this being one of them).

Wide specter of different psychological profiles being showcased through Original series such as sly and corrupted to bone people like Nastina, Farfetched kid stealing other people pokemon , genuinely evil pokemon such as Pokemopolis destroyers. People who became cold and ambittered due to experiencing various disappointments in life becoming cynical about friendship between humans and pokemon such as Mahagony gym leader Pryce(after being injured by fireblast attack thinking Piloswine abandoned him) or Sylvester from Johto.

Gym leaders who were robust and unique in characterization such as lt. Surge not being concerned over sending other trainers or pokemon to hospital, Blaine who didnt thought twice over risking challenger pokemon to die when battling over lava not being famous for giving second chances to challengers in winning badge etc etc.

Drawing more paralells to real life and how tough world can be if you dont know how to fight for yourself. Sending valuable lesson to kids that way preparing them better for life.

Humor which was usually more cloever and in some cases borderline perverted. Such as Brock saying" if she was 8 years older, things would get interesting", "Tarzan kid asking Misty to drink milk from her breasts" etc, etc.

There was in general more maturity, more emphasis on human interactions raher than pokemon themselves which became noticeable over the years.

There are times where i feel like pokemon such as Hawlucha, Pancham, Greninja are receiving more attention than humans themselves often being more fleshed out in personality and development than their trainers. Exact opposite from what things used to be in older generations(sure that resulted in pokemon being badly handled, but humans and friendships reached more complexity as result of that adding to their relatable values).

With anime in current Kalos series lacking any destination or strong compact plot to follow. Being sappy, too lighthearted and kiddified. Lacking that element of danger, depth of emotions and artistzic liberty it used to have.

You cant sell me how OS followed games in same amount like XY does either. There were anime only adventures like Orange or Whirl islands expanding on what may been existing skeleton. Most recurring characters were anime exclusive(including Gary who may had been based on blue but was still characer on its own). Episodes dealing with abnormal pokemon (Tentacruel, Gengar, Alakazam) wanting to wreck whole world, mischief pokemon which supplied anime with various unique running gags which embellished series appeal making it more memorable and fun to follow. Whether we are talking about Jigglypuff, Snubull or Delibird.

Game plot was followed much less and pokemon staff had more effrontery in experimenting with various ideas adding more of their own touch to story. Just because you classify most episodes from there as fillers=/= they were fillers.

With anime feeling like it has destination to follow with Ash and his companions alongside journey moving them somewhere no matter how intermittent it may had been at tmes. Free of resets and rehashed ideas.

What kind of path and plot Kalos anime has so far?
Excluding expected suspects such as gyms or pokemon performance which would be better if some battling or direct competition between contestants existed there. Seeming so fsr like pokemon version of pop idol.

No real rivals(existing ones serve more as punching bags than anything else to be honest), no villains, no conflict or unpredictability put in journey as whole. Some larger mission which would gather Ash and his friends having mission to stop danger or deliver something important adding more substance to story.

Im not running away from bad writing, lack of progression toward goals or inconsistent development Original series were known for. However compared to Kalos in entertainment vakue, development of relationship between characters fleshing each other personalities, creativity of plots and emotional aspect I received more value from them. Than I can currently say to be situation with XY saga being fairly mediocre.
Im not even gonna mention continuity or connection to past generations because its almost nonexistant.

Like I said before Kalos has potential to be great series, but most of that potential is either being wasted or not used properly at all. At very least in my opinion thats current state of how things are.

 

[Mareepy]

Too Long

I always respected opinions, but if you replied to my comment, you are trying to start a discussion, debate or whatever, you can call me a competitive person in this aspect, I wanted to see relevant points to continue a debate, and you weren't (and now still weren't) offering any good arguments. This is outright boring for me to reply, I will just tolerate this one more reply and if you can't offer a good enough point, I won't be replying anymore.

And I am not the type who can't accept other's opinion in a debate, I totally agreed with Yuugis Black Magician in the XY74 discussion in the end. Its because he brought up a good point, while you are reading between lines to make your argument looks good.

I thought we had this discussion before, Misty's development is actually more development through time more than actually events in episodes. I understand characters do develop through time in real life, but in terms of writing it means the character can develop to whatever state the writer wants at any point of the show , which is in fact, the most horrible type of writing. You can argue that its closer to real life but you will never convince me its good writing. Its lazy. Misty can be strong or weak on demand, which makes her development bad, no matter how hard you try to defend her development.

'The development is noticeable'. You mean watch while skipping 30 episodes each time? That's totally noticeable yeah.

Misty accepted what Psyduck was or she just gave up on trying to improve him? Its really debatable.

Misty always think she was better than Ash, her so called development is just her realizing she is no longer that much better than Ash, its not respect or anything, its just a kind of admitting defeat. As she has not shown a respect towards Ash after her embarrassing lose to a Graveler. And there are so many other instances where Ash just did better than Misty, especially the episode capturing Totodile. After all events in Kanto how did she react over Ash's decision to capture Totodile ahead of her? I hope I don't even need to explain.

In XY there is no growth in relationship between group in XY? Ok, insted of telling you to rewatch OS without skipping 30 episodes, I want you to rewatch XY. XY01, XY07, XY09, XY45, XY67 all offers a fair share of interactions between the group. And its at the span of 78 episode so far, I am sure it has a way higher ratio than it ever has in OS. So once again you smashed a stone on your own toe.

The 'death and maturity' you just said in a kid's show is skirted around and the deaths never mentioned. It had depths that only an adult can understand and didn't convey anything to their target audiences. Which means its complete failure. Detective Conan constantly features murders, but they always make the death a serious thing and they always talk about the concept of life. Take a search of them and you will find tons of them, the one he said to Vermouth in US and the one he said to Heiji Hattori stuck to my mind for my entire life, the latter being the best of them all.

"A detective who uses his deductive powers to corner a suspect and then does nothing to stop them from commiting suicide, is no better than the murderer himself."

The depths you mentioned never existed in the show as they are never mentioned and skirted around. In other words there are no depths, except your own imagination.

Gym Leaders are hired by the leagues to test trainers while trainers start their journey at ten. And you want them to send trainer into hospital or death without much concern. Great idea!

Oh thanks for putting up the Pokemon War theory! And wasn't Lt.Surge from California? Or was it Seattle??? Ahahahaha, you can't seriously believe I will take it seriously? And another mention of sexuality stuff? Good for you!

Giant monster destroying cities! Wow! You said movies are canon in your book. There you go. You just smashed your own toe for a second time.

Putting up a DP example in a OS XY debate is great, you do know DP is my second favourite series! So there are 2 actual mentions of death in how many episodes? We have 3 in 78 here in XY! Wow OS is so mature.

OS has truly evil people? XY don't? I just remembered a Hospital electric outage. And several other things I bashed some certain trio on a certain thread about them. Which is in this character and saga discussion section. And that mad man in XY12.

And Pokemon development is never bad. But if you want human development, I am so sure you can find them in OS. Go ahead and do it.

Blah Blah Blah you just want to watch them to disagree with each other and start an argument or fight. I think you can just go google up a bit about that mindset.

'Lack of depth of emotion'. XY14, XY23, XY33, XY46, XY48, XY49, XY53, XY60, XY62, XY63, XY64, XY 67, XY69, XY70, XY75, XY76, XY77 all begs to differ.

'Anime needs deviation from the games' and 'Ash and his friends having mission to stop danger or deliver something important adding more substance to story' contradicts themselves. I hope I don't need to explain it at all. Hunter J is the only exception of this so far as she is not in any Evil Organizations. And she is definitely not from OS.

Connection to past seasons are non-existence. Or you mean only OS actually has that? And OS managed to stay broken with it. I don't see why all other series decided to shy away from it as far as possible.

 

[Jammy2A]

Perhaps enough is enough guys, otherwise keep it private.

This is just an anime at the end of the day...

 

[Pokemaster97]

Let's get back to the topic at hand please, this is a discussion about the XY saga, so focus on that. Keep all discussion civil. It is okay to disagree with one another, being hostile and condescending is not. Behavior of this nature from anyone will result in an infraction.

 

[Pikachu979]

XY is a huge improvement over BW but thats pretty much it for me. it is on par with the OS series right now. alot of things just dont work with me like serena's boring goal that took forever to find.or how clemont's only purpose was the 5th gym thats it. also bonnie gets way to much screen time like what are we suppose to gain from watching a kid who isnt even a pokemon trainer atleast max was smart and brought his knowledge of pokemon to the group unlike bonnie who is just there for dedenne. Though xy has some good elements like the pokemon,the gym battles,ash being competent this saga even though he is super boring this saga, he doesnt even make jokes or take shots at his companions,everybody is just to friendly to me. so honestly i like XY but it wont beat DP or AG for me

 

[Geodude]

Question to those who don't like the fact that the Performances/Tripokalon are just for girls: Does it make you feel better that Ash and Clemont have been so supportive, and don't express disinterest in something that's "just for girls"?

 

[Misty-Moo]

Question to those who don't like the fact that the Performances/Tripokalon are just for girls: Does it make you feel better that Ash and Clemont have been so supportive, and don't express disinterest in something that's "just for girls"?

I like the supportive interrelationships all the characters have - Serena's like Bonnie's big sister, Clemont's grow as a Trainer and a person thanks to Ash's influence, the way everyone reassured and comforted Serena when she failed the first time.
For a series ostensively aimed at children, I think all the characters are well-defined and fully rounded individuals.

As for the question of everyone watching Serena's performance and supporting her dream, that's what you do for friends - who hasn't gone to a play, seen a sports match, or listened to a band simply because a close friend is involved?

 

[Necrozma]

My main issue with XY is the same one I had 8 months ago when I made my post in this thread.

It lacks excitement.

It lacks conflict.

Every once in a while, DP and BW did things that made me super hyped about the upcoming events, but XY hasn't had any of that so far. There are no surprises but there is also no conflict. There are no rivals that lead to interesting interactions, everything is super nice and happy and there are no legit villains in XY (we need that Malamar back!). At least BW had legit villains in form of Team Rocket when they were serious, but XY doesn't even have that! So it's kinda hard to enjoy this anime when there's no source of any strife. Even slight disagreements on a regular basis would make it a lot more enjoyable. Best Wishes, for example, had Iris who didn't put up with anyone's shit and was not afraid of being snarky which led to amusing reactions and interactions but once again, XY has none of that.

So yeah.

I mean, Serena's character is finally going somewhere and I'm very happy about that.

But we seriously need a good, a-hole-ish rival or Team Flare.

Something needs to stir things up.

Eight months have since passed and XY still shows no improvement in regards to conflict, bad guys and exciting rivalries.

I only hope once Alan comes around that Team Flare becomes a major factor because something needs to shake this show up.

 

[Morningstar]

My main issue with XY is the same one I had 8 months ago when I made my post in this thread.

It lacks excitement.

It lacks conflict.

Every once in a while, DP and BW did things that made me super hyped about the upcoming events, but XY hasn't had any of that so far. There are no surprises but there is also no conflict. There are no rivals that lead to interesting interactions, everything is super nice and happy and there are no legit villains in XY (we need that Malamar back!). At least BW had legit villains in form of Team Rocket when they were serious, but XY doesn't even have that! So it's kinda hard to enjoy this anime when there's no source of any strife. Even slight disagreements on a regular basis would make it a lot more enjoyable. Best Wishes, for example, had Iris who didn't put up with anyone's shit and was not afraid of being snarky which led to amusing reactions and interactions but once again, XY has none of that.

So yeah.

I mean, Serena's character is finally going somewhere and I'm very happy about that.

But we seriously need a good, a-hole-ish rival or Team Flare.

Something needs to stir things up.

Eight months have since passed and XY still shows no improvement in regards to conflict, bad guys and exciting rivalries.

I only hope once Alan comes around that Team Flare becomes a major factor because something needs to shake this show up.

Now that I think of it, You're right. So far Ash has gotten 6 badges and we haven't seen hide nor hair of Team Flare outside the specials.

In fact, it seems that the role of adapting the games seem to gone to the Mega-Evo specials, with only the generic badge quest being retained...

 

[Dr. Buni]

So far, what I think of XY is:

Serena's character has improved a bit, but she still is mostly "the one girl who likes Ash". Her goal isn't exactly original and for a show which has fighting as one of its main selling points, she does very little battling. I mean, May and Dawn had different goals too, but they also had plenty of battles. I guess I just want to see Braixen and Pancham being used more, as both are among my favorite Gen VI mon.

Clemont and Bonnie (especially Bonnie) are still the best characters in this saga. It's worth watching every week's episode if only to see Bonnie's interactions with others. On Clemont, he is already a deeper and more relatable character than Brock, Cilan and Tracey combined... in half a saga. IMO, of course. P.S.: I love and miss Brock, tho.

The "rivals" are really good, Alam or whathisname (the edgy dude) aside. But unfortunately they don't appear that often. I really want to see more of Shauna and Tierno and the new kid, Shota (not sure what his English dub name is) is also a nice and likable character. I have read some hateful comments towards him, which I did not understand, by the way...

There's a massive lack of... interesting stuff happening. There are the gym leader matches, some good (Viola, Clemont, Ramos), some questionable (Grant) and some bad ones (Valerie, imo), plus some of Serena's uninteresting goal stuff here and there, but that is it. Malamar aside (who needs to come back asap) there are no villains in X&Y. I really wish we would get someone like Hunter J again, to shake things up. Stuff like Clemont leaving the group for a number of episodes was really interesting and unexpected, and that shows the writers know how to make the show interesting, they just don't do that often.

The main cast's Pokémon teams is really good, I think. There's variety and Ash isn't catching one thousand Pokémon like he did in Unova. Also interesting to note that most of his team is getting a little bit of focus, with Pikachu and the regional starter, Frogadier, being the main stars, of course. That being said, I once again have to bring up how underused Serena's Pokémon are. Poor Braixen, poor Pancham. Will they ever become Delphox and Pangoro at this rate? Well, considering Fennekin evolved with next to no battle experience, I can see Braixen and Pancham evolving the same way. I can't even hope for Serena to catch another Pokémon since it will rot inside its Pokéball forever anwyays. On Serena's defense, this problem isn't exclusive to her. Misty's Pokémon were rarely used back in the day and she was a Gym Leader/Water-type master aspirant, someone who have battling as her goal.

Last but not least, the music selection is really weird in XY. At times the staff responsible for the sound aspect of the show can nail the atmosphere of scenes, picking extremely fitting tracks. But often they will keep reusing the awful opening songs during battles and stuff. Why? Just used the game's soundtrack instead, it's a lot better, it fits better and since there's no vocals, it doesn't mix with the dialogues.

Question to those who don't like the fact that the Performances/Tripokalon are just for girls: Does it make you feel better that Ash and Clemont have been so supportive, and don't express disinterest in something that's "just for girls"?

Not at all.

 

[Jammy2A]

On the point about the lack of conflict/interesting rivalries, I have to admit that I was so excited from hearing the original Pokémon Theme in the first dub season of XY that I never noticed anything else That 40secs of opening credits just made my day every time but looking at it more critically I see your point, the show could use a nice antagonistic force (Gary, Paul, Team Aqua/Magma, Team Galactic [especially they re getting kicked out by Cynthia a couple of times ]).

And I dont really have an opinion on the Pokémon Performances, I think I preferred the Pokémon Contests, definitely, but I have no strong feeling about it one way or the other. Its just good that Serena's got a goal now (it did take her a while), but now that Ash has his badge, I dont really understand what Clemont is doing with him instead of running his gym. That being said, Brock had no reason to accompany Ash around in the first place either except for the fact that he liked him and thought he could help (as does Clemont). So in that sense, there s not much room to complain about Clemont without touching on Brock taking until the end of DP series to figure out he wanted to be a Pokémon doctor and not a breeder.

 

[Morningstar]

Shota (not sure what his English dub name is)

Scottie I believe

 

[KrisiChiki]

It's true XY doesn't have a lot of conflict or prevalent villain(s) so far. It's also true the current traveling group is very positive, supportive and friendly which each other, however I disagree that there is a lack of teasing and joking, though it's not to the extent of past groups.

The overall positive attitude of the XY doesn't bother me though. In fact, that's one of the things I like about it. I watch XY for the entertainment value, which is a matter of personal opinion and taste. It makes me feel good and happy. The group is adorable and I like their loving, supportive interactions. I think it's nice to have such a group for a change, even if it may be a bit unrealistic. To be frank however, many times the characters are really friendly, nice and helpful to random characters they meet in episodes, which is something that has happened in older seasons, too. That's hardly new.

If I want to watch something darker, with more conflict, bigger villains, I'll pick one of the movies or read Pokemon Special. I've always found the anime to be a more lighthearted, friendly version of Pokemon, although it doesn't shy away from the occasional darker themes and episodes. I prefer having the anime focus on the Pokemon themselves, giving them distinct personalities. I won't deny I would be happy to see another Pokemon anime that is aimed at the older audience, with better writing. That does not mean I would want the current anime to go away, but I could do with a little change such as finally giving Ash and company closure, starting anew with a completely different cast of characters. Then again, I also won't be angry if Ash continues to stick around, which is probably what is going to happen.

I guess my expectations of the anime just aren't high. I don't need too much out of it. I want it to entertain me and make me happy. XY manages to do exactly that, so that's good enough for me. With that in mind, I consider XY the best season along with AG and DP. In contrast, BW made me roll my eyes, and I found OS somewhat boring, especially during Johto.

 

[ManUtd22]

I want N, and his friend concordia and Anthea appear in the XY - I hope they appear like Handsome appeared in Black and white

 

[pokemon fan 132]

After thinking this through and watching new episodes lately. XY series are ok in terms of adventure, battling or pokemon themseloves often being stars(like Braixen, Hawlucha or never stopping to amaze me Frogadier and its ninja moves).

But i still feel lack of conflict or tension for most part is dragging XY series down.

After watching last few episodes even when some type of clash and danger occurs in episode such as Ash Goomy relieving memories of its hometewn being invaded having PTSD disorder eventually learning to find inner peace, Pikachu confronting Meowth, whole episode about Rotom and use of pokemon as gambling pieces with tacked on time travel etc.

Issue with atmosphere of XY(Kalos) anime is; in failing to deliver that level of drama, suspense and anxiety displayed in interactions between main characters like older sagas did.
With everything being shiften to either comedy too peaceful, reserved and utopian for my taste resolution of whatever problems occur.

I hoped there would for example exist some health balance with Ash, Clemont, Bonnie and Serena both being understanding, full of support and motivation for each other. While also having their disagreements, differences in opinion and at least sometime conflict, suspense going on. Sarcastic remarks, jokes and rival like moments in trying to outplay themselves when pursuing same prize or thing they want to achieve.

That we would receive some tension and sense of urgency provided from villains, but unless Lysandre and Team Flare finally appears in main show we can forgett about that.

Another disappointing thing comes from lack of emotional depth existing between Ash new traveling companions. Writers didnt delivered much backstory about Serena aside from that Summer camp. Clemont and Bonnie lacks some insight in their past and diving deeper in their personalities as well. Sure they did showed Clemont befriending pokemon Luxio remembering on his past memories and encounter with him at school restoring on friendship they used to have . But thats about it.

Bonnie got absolute zero which is shame because instead of treating her urge in wanting to find girl for her older brother marrying him as solely comic relief. I would appreciated if writers could expand on this bringing bigger dimension to her personality by explaining from where this sense of insecurity comes from?

It would been interesting if this got turned in mini arc revealing reason behind it. Like maybe trying to compensate for absence of mother in her life in finding girl eligible for her brother to receive new female. Receive love and care she couldnt had received from father and her brother.

Rocket trio lacks more depth and episodes dedicated to their past, personalities and various desires they had as well, with earlier sagas generating more attention toward such themes.


This wasn't the case before. In older series i remember times when we saw deconsutruction of main characters flaws, hints or implicatons of what preceeded into them becoming persons they are today.

Such as Brock having to take paternal role acting as surrogate father to his younger siblings after being left by his irresponsible parents. Being faced with cold reality of sacrificing his personal wishes, dreams of exploring world and becoming pokemon breeder by doing job he didn't really wanted, but had no choice developing great deal of responsibility and protective feelings toward younger brother and sisters. When in reality he was just confused, young teen wanting to escape from that kind of life and experience what world can offer to him.

Through Misty abrasive, insecure and defensive behavior back than writers werent afraid to exploit on character inner struggles, breakdowns, conflicts going inside someone. With Misty clearly having lot of pent up frustration in her due to constant flack and degradation she received from older sisters toughening up because of not having any parental love and care. Bringing up her sad history more than once and how much sad childhood formed her personality.

Growing up, becoming more independent and having fiery,abit irreverent nature in not wanting to depend on someone with Ash and Brock giving her friendship and someone who could understand her becoming more compassionate as person because of that. In many ways Misty didn't/ doesn't act like 10 year old girl would at all . But thanks to insight in her past and personal problems viewer can understand from where this comes from.

Jessie for example had possibly one of most exploited backstories from any other main character in pokemon(well except maybe James). We know Jessie grew up in orphanage. Losing her mother (elite TR member)Miyamoto in accident when being on mission to search for Mew. She had no friends, often starved. Was used by boys deceiving her and breaking her heart. Tried to become reputable member of society in attending varous schools and classes; such as to become pokenmon nurse, to do forecast, work as fashion designer etc. Coming to misunderstanding on every step being kicked out. Until she joined Rocket organization, feeling how for first time in life there is place where she can feel accepted.

With unfortunate outcomes leading to genuinely good person straying away from right path.

Do we really see such kind of emotion and depth in current Kalos series? Not really.


Thats not implying how original series dealt with tragedy, cruelty and murky topics. Far from it, but i can say without hesitation how it contained certain level of depth and maturity in its storyline so that progression of characters and narrative would feel appealing and accesible not just to young kids, but teenagers, adults and people from all age groups.

AG and DP had their fair share of darker, more substantial storylines too. Maybe not in same way and manner OS did, but there existed sense of danger and depth added to character interactions and journey as whole. Whether we are talking about Ash soul being posessed by Pokelantis king turning evil, giant Claydol being awakened threatening to destroy Hoenn, completely evil pokemon appearing in DP (Spiritomb)not showing any remorse or hesitation in delivering destruction and pain to other people and pokemon, let alone Cyrus who wanted to change world to his own according being lead by selfish egoistic plans etc,


Appreciating how previous sagas, especially earlier ones like OS or AG werent afraid showing. Revealing how aside from happy, lighthearted themes pokemon always promoted there did exist danger, pain and traumatic experiences with there existing genuine evil people. Evil pokemon and cruel acts with everything not being super positive in pokemon world. Building on realism and dash of mature elements sprinkled in story.

Now this are just my thoughts: but in comparison XY comes around as pretty lackluster being degrading both for story/characters and viewers in how unrealistic and naive pokemon world is portrayed at times. Lacking some drama and bigger variety of emotions at least for me to have everything rounded up nicely. Hopefully Alain introduction in main series and Team Flare may change that.

Having everything become more authentic and enjoyable to follow.

 

[Necrozma]

It all seems nice with some cracks. Serena's contest episodes are completely waste of time and bespeak to 5 - 7 year old watchers. You don't miss any single thing if you do not watch those episodes.

Except for the first Tripokalon episode (or more specifically, Serena's first loss) whose outcome results in Serena's design change and major character development. Not to mention the introduction of Yashio who is bound to play a role in Serena's future.

So, you would miss out a lot if you skipped that episode.

Not even the second Tripokalon episode can be skipped since it is basically Serena's first win, Miette officially becoming a recurring character and Serena's rival. So yeaaaah.

Your opinion on the Tripokalons is one thing, you may dislike them (many people do), but the fact is they're essential for full understanding of Serena's story arc and thus cannot be skipped.

 

[Silktree]

Your opinion on the Tripokalons is one thing, you may dislike them (many people do), but the fact is they're essential for full understanding of Serena's story arc and thus cannot be skipped.

He obviously doesn't care about Serena's story arc considering that it boils down to Showcases.

 

[wolley2xjd]

XY has some really great music, the animation has some of the best action scenes in anime, And I really like how they handle the gym leaders in the show, Clemont and Bonnie are awesome characters and I like Ash's Team this time around but sadly this I where all things I like about this season end.

Ash is pretty boring in this season, I know he''s not the most interesting character in the world but other seasons he was both Badass and funny, in this season he's kind just bland and while he improved himself has a trainer he just not that interesting has was in the other seasons.

And let's talk about Serena, why did they try to have her be a romantic interest in Ash when we all it isn't going to go anywhere, and why did it take then over 20 episodes to have actual do anything, she's just there to be this region's girl and it bugs me more when Korrina's arc showed me that they could had easily had her travel with Ash instead Serena, she just felt so badly handled and I was really looking forward to liking but no they dropped the poke ball on this one.

The in game rivals pretty good and I love who Terino has more character in the anime then in the game's, I'm not sure about I feel about Alan since I never watch the Mega Evolution specials so meh.

It's thanks to Serena's boring dryness that I stopped why this season all thought I still check bulbapedia to see what happened and still watch gym battles but besides that eh.

Love the op themes thought.

 

[Deadman]

Started out good, good enough to take over place 1. from DP for me but by now turned out to be just a solid place 2.
Really, I thought after the first few eps Ash is back on a skill level where he uses attacks, features, field and contest knowledge to bring the battles on a new level of awesomeness where real skill is. I thought after his heroic showcase there even will be a few references to his deeds especially league participations in previous generations and Serenas past connection to him would bring out new sides of him. As we know now, I was wrong all the way.
Then unlike others, I even enjoyed the contest back in the day because the artistic beauty they had. Nowadays the performances are nice and so, but just don't give as much of a "ohhhhh" to me as the contests.
And worst of all, comic relieve Team Rocket. Honestly, pretty much the only thing I liked about BW was competent TR. I can accept CRTR too but not if 9 out of 10 Epsiodes are like this. This *too much swearing to even be censored* is just the worst. If the staff at least would find a good balance between "competent" TR and "comic relieve stupidity and incompetrence" TR it would all be cool. The last 10 minutes or so of the episodes where TR is active I usually pay less attention to and do stuff while watching.
I kind of missed the evil team plot so far, that did DP better with occasional appearances throughout the series and giving a feeling of something big is going on behind the curtain. But Team Flare arc is up and I'm curious.
Also Hunter J was a real good villain too. I miss something like that in XY as well. The 2 or 3 eps about that one unmemorable guy who hunts Pokèmon for profit just doesn't cut it.
I do like the 4 children traveling together and life through all kinds of adventures theme about it though.
Even the Bonnie 'keeping of girls for her brother' isn't overused like for example Brocks hitting on girls was.
That's about my general thoughts about XY(&Z)
Have a nice day and see you around.