What do you want to see different in Best Wishes?

[Piplup]

Let's stop using the word "filler" and instead of "filler saga" call Orange and BF "short sagas which came to exist in order to fill up time between the new generation region's end till the next generation start"
So... "short saga" is what I'll call them
They didn't HAVE to exist (unlike Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, Isshu) and could not exist if the writers chose to extend Kanto and Hoenn instead
It doesn't mean they were bad sagas or that everything happened in them is "filler" or anything like that... just that it wasn't really necessary to have them and it's unlikely we'll get more sagas like these

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

They are my favourite sagas. Though you can disagree with me.

Filler =/= Bad. Orange League had some of my favourite episodes, but it's ,still, maked for filling the time till GS games.

Let's stop using the word "filler" and instead of "filler saga" call Orange and BF "short sagas which came to exist in order to fill up time between the new generation region's end till the next generation start"

Well, it's part of fan-speak and not really negative as you mean it...

 

[Piplup]

Sadly, the word "filler" seems to have gotten a negative meaning for some people... this is another reason I hate to use this word

 

[pokemon fan 132]

I seriously doubt they'll ever do anything like Orange or BF again
Either it's 3 years Isshu like they say or it's 4 years Isshu like DP was

I always thought how shorter regions were rather refreshing giving us something new to fill up left time before new games come out and i would take another shorter region like Orange or Battle Frontier any day over stretching out Isshu for four years.

Orange? the show is getting closer and closer to the games with the time so I can't see them making an anime only place for a short saga to take place in....

Considering writers actually rather choosed two gym leaders instead of game protagonists like they did two generations in a row so far,aswell reviving older characters like Giovanni again make it seem how they are rather straying little more from them(even faith of new feature musicals is questionable possibly not having any big impact on series like contests did).DP despite all kind of game elements still had plenty of anime only events too,so while writers have been more consistent by following games they also showed how they have liberty to go off route deciding in which way they will advertize them.

Well, it's part of fan-speak and not really negative as you mean it...

Most people i encontered view "fillers" as being "boring,unimportant episodes which waste time" which of of course completely wrong but this kind of ridiculous claims i encounter quite often.
You would be surprised how many of them decide to skip episodes which arent plot related never watching them,just because they are called fillers which they view as being "bad".

 

[Piplup]

Pokefan, I never said the shorter sagas are bad... I actually really liked BF and I think Orange is better than Kanto
As for choosing Iris and Dento over the game heroes, I think there's 2 reasons for that:
1. The game heroes are older - they obviously tried to appeal to older target audience with this, but I guess with the anime they're afraid to aim at an older age group than it currently is, so they preferred childish cute Iris over the older and cooler White/Touko
2. The anime always makes the game heroes as starring characters on the show (Ash, May, Dawn - all were active characters with real plot and starred during their time on the show) while this time they wanted Ash to be the only star again, so they "couldn't" use the game heroes if they wanted to stick to the "game hero = active/sttaring character" thing that's been going on so far
3. The Kanto references

So no, the fact they didn't use the game heroes wasn't because they're trying to be different from the games... it's too early to judge how close they sticked with the games... let's wait for at least Team Plasma's first appearance to think about this

 

[Magmortar123]

Hmm, I'm unsure. DP was really good IMO so if it's at least a little bit similar to that I'll love it

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Pokefan, I never said the shorter sagas are bad... I actually really liked BF and I think Orange is better than Kanto

No you missunderstod i expressed what is my stance toward them.

1. The game heroes are older - they obviously tried to appeal to older target audience with this, but I guess with the anime they're afraid to aim at an older age group than it currently is, so they preferred childish cute Iris over the older and cooler White/Touko

I doubt they wanted to appeal to older viewers.If that was the case they would pay attention to complaints from older fans bringing one of older characters back.Unless your taking about target audience which started watching from Sinnoh still counting as main targeting group.

Also lot of people say how being older could be solved by simply degaing White.

2. The anime always makes the game heroes as starring characters on the show (Ash, May, Dawn - all were active characters with real plot and starred during their time on the show) while this time they wanted Ash to be the only star again, so they "couldn't" use the game heroes if they wanted to stick to the "game hero = active/sttaring character" thing that's been going on so far

Which makes you think why they decided after two regions to go back to status of "Ash being main star".Speaking of characters with smaller roles likeIris,MIsty,Brock etc they can also be active having plots.Its just that focus planned for their development wont be as big like its case with Ash.

So no, the fact they didn't use the game heroes wasn't because they're trying to be different from the games... it's too early to judge how close they sticked with the games... let's wait for at least Team Plasma's first appearance to think about this

Maybe this wasnt their intention,but than again we will have to wait to find out how much they are following games this time around.

 

[Silktree]

Another factor that needs to be taken into account when discussing BW's length is the map of Isshu. Unlike the previous regions (especially Sinnoh), Isshu's map is very linear in that after the starting towns (Kanoko and Karakusa), the player has a direct route to the next city or town that hosts a Gym. In other words, the other non-Gym towns (Kagome, Sazanami Towns and Black City/White Forest) are visited after the main story is over and are optional in that sense (Kanawa Town can be visited earlier, but requires a Subway and lacks anything notable). Not only that, but the only time the player has to backtrack through Isshu is when Team Plasma gather in the Ancient Castle, but I highly doubt that the writers will bother to incorporate this event (considering that even Karakusa Town was barely seen, meaning that the first encounter with N was skipped).

As a reminder, the course of the DP series was as follows (anime-exclusive towns are italicized):
Twinleaf, Sandgem and Lake Verity (beginning) -> Jubilife (Contest #1) -> Oreburgh (Gym #1) -> Floaroma (Contest #2) -> Eterna (Gym #2 and Galactic Encounter #1) -> Hearthome (Contest #3 and Tag Battle Tournament) -> Solaceon (Contest #4 and Galactic Encounter #2) -> Veilstone (Gym #3 and Galactic Encounter #3) -> Lake Valor (Contest #5) -> Pastoria (Gym #4) -> Hearthome (Stylist Contest) -> Summer School -> Celestic (Contest #6 and Galactic Encounter #4) -> Hearthome (Gym #5) -> Canalave (Gym #6) -> Iron Island (Galatic Encounter #5) -> Chocovine (Contest #7) -> Squallville (PokéRinger) -> Sandalstraw (Contest #8 and Ping-Pong Competition) -> Snowpoint (Gym #7) -> Lake Acuity (6vs6 battle against Paul) -> Spear Pillar (Galactic Encounter #6) -> Twinleaf (Twinleaf Festival) -> Valley Windworks (Johto Festival) -> Lilypad Town (Contest #9) -> Fuego Ironworks and Spear Pillar (Galactic climax) -> Daybreak Town (Contest #10) -> Sunyshore -> Lake Valor (Grand Festival) -> Sunyshore (Gym #8) -> Suzuran Island (League) -> Twinleaf (ending)

Now, it is too early to say that the BW series is going to follow the games closely as opposed to creating many anime-exclusive locations, but I could only see that being the case if the Musicals became a sidequest, which is unlikely for various reasons. Granted, Kanto and Johto had many anime-exclusive towns, but nothing of note happened in those places; they were just a way to avoid spending too much time in the same forest scenery between the main locations. I can't see why any deviation from the linear course of the games will be necessary without a second quest. Presumably, even the Team Plasma (and Rocket?) finale will take place in the same location as the League, although the events will probably unfold differently.

 

[Cybersai]

Isshu will likely be shorter than DP, I don't understand for the life of me why people think it'll be 191 episodes.

Unless 70% of Isshu is filler, its impossible to stretch it out that long with Ash as the only quest.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Isshu will likely be shorter than DP, I don't understand for the life of me why people think it'll be 191 episodes.

Unless 70% of Isshu is filler, its impossible to stretch it out that long with Ash as the only quest.

So appareantly to you characters with smaller role cant have side quests like Ash does?Iris and Dento wont get as much attention like Ash and Dawn did,but to say how they will not have anthing to do or any sort of tasks is ridiculous to say the least.

Take for example Misty,if it werent for mr.Shudo mistakes instead of all that fillers in Johto her role could have been bigger with her goal of becoming water master being advanced more.Someone doesnt have to have star status like Ash have to get developed with his quest going somewhere.
It would without doubt receive less focus,but it would still help to fill up place.

 

[TheGradebot]

To be quite honest, I think the anime has gone on long enough and they should just scrap it =\

 

[CommanderPigg]

Wow. How did this discussion turn from personal wishes to argument about the series's length and fillers? When only been 3 episodes have been released...

Oh, wait...

I'd love Dento to have an important role in the group. As much as I liked Brock, I felt as if he could've done more instead of being overshadowed by Dawn and Ash all the time. *sigh* the poor fate of being the secondary protagonist

In terms of rivalries, I think that the focus should be on quality, not quantity; if they do have a large rival cast, I'd like it if they were introduced early and not forgotten about later in the series so that we have time to "connect" with them.

 

[Cybersai]

This is why I think there will be much less rivals in BW. I don't think either Iris or Dento will get any rivals, because they don't need any.

Aside from Shooti, I think Ash will get one more rival as the saga progresses but that's it.

And yeah, I think we're all hoping Dento gets great screentime.

 

[Caseydia]

In Kanto, Ash released had a lot of Pokemon(almost including Pikachu). I hope we won't see that in BW. Please!

 

[pokemon_master2]

Unless 70% of Isshu is filler, its impossible to stretch it out that long with Ash as the only quest.

Why 70%? We have til now 8 titles, and only 2 of them are fillers.

Take for example Misty,if it werent for mr.Shudo mistakes instead of all that fillers in Johto her role could have been bigger with her goal of becoming water master being advanced more.Someone doesnt have to have star status like Ash have to get developed with his quest going somewhere.
It would without doubt receive less focus,but it would still help to fill up place.

What on earth Misty has to do with this?

 

[Dr. Mecha]

The reason Game Freak designed more Pokémon than ever before to is that they wanted to make Generation V stand out from Generation IV, since they are the only two generations released for the same system. If anything, this just reinforces the idea that not even Black and White's third version will be released for the 3DS. However, to conclude from this that no main series game will be released for the 3DS until 2014 is wrong; extending the DS' lifetime by three years is quite enough, if not a bit excessive.

I certainly don't see how Generation V can be four years long without remakes, so they have everything to do with this discussion. There was speculation about the third version and remakes being the first games for the 3DS, but that idea isn't supported by Black and White's data in the least. Game Freak are hiring new employees next year and it goes without saying that work on Generation VI is getting started these days; if they want to move to the 3DS with a new generation, it will almost definitely happen in 2013.

As for the anime, they have about 145 Pokémon to showcase in the BW series (the legendaries other than Reshiram and Zekrom can be left for the movies). If the old Pokémon are barely seen as indicated by the first batch of episodes, then almost every episode will focus on a new Pokémon, and some species may be featured together. There will be no problem to use roughly 156 episodes to get the Isshu Pokédex covered, and the old Pokémon can become prominent again in the Generation VI series, which would be far preferable to Generation III critters conveniently migrating to Isshu just in time for the hypothetical remakes.

For the bolded part, Game Freak are still behind on the 3DS software development and is unsure if such games are compatible with DS titles.

As for what I expected from BW, is the same from any other saga. To do its job to promote the game using Ash and Pikachu as the focus.

 

[peno]

I know I wasn't here for a long time, but I thought it's time for me to come back and this thread seems the best for me. I didn't read the whole thread, so if I will repeat some things already disscused, I am sorry.
They already did some things I wanted to see, but they also did some things I didn't want to see and actually hate to see.
The things I wanted to see and they did are two. One you already guessed probably, yes, Brock is finally gone. The second is more serious TR trio.
Unfortunately, those things are compensated with things I hate. The most important is no contests. After 8 years and three regions in which they were as important as Gyms without real compensation.
The second bad thing, that actually relates to this, is how copycated new characters seemed to me. Iris is another one type Gym leader without real goal, just like Misty used to be and if that itself is not bad enough, her type is Dragon, who has only small amount of Pokémon for her to catch in future. Dento is another former Gym Leader with strange no-battle based goal just like Brock, but this time no one really knows anything about his goal. I mean, what the hell is Pokémon Sommelier? That gave me bad Johto vibe out of Isshu now.
Another thing that bothers me is Ash's Pokémon roster. Ash already has bird, Water type starter and Fire type starter and will most likely catch Grass type starter as well. So not only he will have his usual bird, water, fire and grass, but he also will have almost full team in only 7 episodes, which means we will either see another Gliscor or we will be stuck with the same Pokémon for at least 2 years if not more. And seeing how Iris and Dento will probably not catch that many Pokémon, if any, we will not have that much chance to see all those new Pokémon. What the hell is this? We have so many new Pokémon, yet anime will force us to only see bird starters, that grass monkey Dento will have and Kibago for most of the time. Am I the only one who think this is bad turn of events?
All in all, the two really good things are highly over weighed with many bad things and I only hope Isshu will not turn to another Johto, with dull characters who had even more dull Pokémon because right now it seems like that for me.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

The second bad thing, that actually relates to this, is how copycated new characters seemed to me. Iris is another one type Gym leader without real goal, just like Misty used to be and if that itself is not bad enough, her type is Dragon, who has only small amount of Pokémon for her to catch in future.

First Misty had a goal(to become water pokemon master) and we dont even know what kind of quest Iris might have.

It doesnt matter to me if she will receive less screentime than May or Dawn did because for good development large amount of focus isnt needed.Misty received less and i enjoyed more in her character and pokemon than i did with May or Dawn though i dont deny how some things werent handled goodbeing,and considering writing improved alot since pokemon starting days Iris pokemon and whatever her goal might be(im pretty sure it will hve something to do with dragon types and Team Plasma but gym is option too) will be focused more upon receiving better teatment.
Afterall it cant be denied how style of writing has changed over the years with writers learning how to handle lot of things right.

Same goes for Dento,still not knowing what will writers do with him so i think its too early to start spreading pessimism.

I only hope Isshu will not turn to another Johto, with dull characters who had even more dull Pokémon because right now it seems like that for me.

Well thats your opinion,to me Johto wasnt that bad and characters and pokemon wrerent dull at all and many people share same sentiment.Johto just did some mistakes due to writing inexperience aswell some wrongly made moves from ex head writer mr.Shudo.

 

[peno]

First Misty had a goal(to become water pokemon master)

Yes, Misty's goal was to become Water Pokémon Master, but what that means? Do you know that? I don't. For me it is as unreachable goal as Ash's Pokémon Master goal is. But unlike Misty, Ash had real and reachable goal in each region, get all badges and win league. Misty, on the other hand, had only one similar goal and that was to win Whirl Cup. Noting else. And for the fact Misty's goal never was fulfilled, as you mentioned in another thread, well, what else actually can one type trainer who doesn't want to battle Gyms fulfiled than become Gym Leader? I don't know, but I think being Gym Leader on your preferred type Gym is the best one type trainer can achieve under these circumstances.

It doesnt matter to me if she will receive less screentime than May or Dawn did because for good development large amount of focus isnt needed.Misty received less and i enjoyed more in her character and pokemon than i did with May or Dawn though i dont deny how some things werent handled goodbeing,and considering writing improved alot since pokemon starting days Iris pokemon and whatever her goal might be(im pretty sure it will hve something to do with dragon types and Team Plasma but gym is option too) will be focused more upon receiving better teatment.

Acftually, for me, good character is not about how much screentime he/she got, but more about what he/she brought into the story. And if we will be objective, both Dawn and May brought very important thing to the story, Contests, thing that was for 8 years as important as Gyms were. Yes, we don't know yet what goal Iris and Dento will have, but one thing is clear: whatever it will be, it will definitely not be as important as Contests were and therefore less amount of important episodes and more (sorry Piplup) fillers just like in Johto. And that is what bothers me about Isshu. Maybe I am wrong and believe me, I hope I am wrong, but for now, I have my doubts.

 

[Haruka_Rules!]

Re: compared to other season, what do you want to see different in Best Wishes?

LESS FILLERS! Just let Ash get to where he's going.

I agree with you, DracoMan. I'm tired of watching so many fillers.