What do you want to see different in Best Wishes?

[pokemon fan 132]

Yes, Misty's goal was to become Water Pokémon Master, but what that means? Do you know that? I don't.

It means becoming best or one of best water trainers in world,as Misty several times stated herself which means being at least on E4 level(possibly even higher),being worldwide recognized,winning all tasks which are required in order to earn this title along with having complete knowleadge about this type.

Also some of E4 members like Lorelai and Lance are labelled as ice and dragon masters with this goal being possible to accomplish.

Misty, on the other hand, had only one similar goal and that was to win Whirl Cup. Noting else.

There was more to it,thing is writers never exploited her goal more.Character herself stated how travelling,battling and partaking in competitions will help her achieve her goal.

And for the fact Misty's goal never was fulfilled, as you mentioned in another thread, well, what else actually can one type trainer who doesn't want to battle Gyms fulfiled than become Gym Leader? I don't know, but I think being Gym Leader on your preferred type Gym is the best one type trainer can achieve under these circumstances.

There are several reasons why gym leader is completely different from goal of becoming water master:
-if Misty viewed gym as way to achieve goal she wouldnt left it in first place to travell not wanting to return to it until she was forced to.

-competitions like Whirl Cup clearly showed how in order to achieve this goal is needed to partake in prestige water tournaments winning them.As matter of fact term water master was brought up by prof.Elm who mentioned how winner of Whirl Cup receives title(Alpha Omega of water types) by which water masters were called in past.Of course winning 1 tournament wont make you best,but it pushes you one step forward toward ultimate destination being indication how there exist tasks which someone needs to overcome to achieve this dream with mentioned tournament being one of them.

-best water trainers are currently Prima(E4 mmber) and Wallace with no way for gym leader to reach this kind of level by staying a gym.
None of gym leaders ever reached E4 or champion level for several reasons not being possible to become this strong at this position.
Fact is that you cant become water master(top water trainer in world)as gym leader which isnt enough in order to fulfill this.

Every gym leader who surpassed limit becoming stronger left gym at one point.Like Wallace did setting on journey becoming champion,contest master and one of top water trainers in world.

You asked what could have one type trainer do?Plenty of things,like partaking in chain of events like Whirl Cup advancing its goal aswell sharping it skills through battles with other water type trainers whom share similar ambitions(like Marins from OI or Trinity which Misty met during travelling) and general trainers forming rivarlies along with improving its roaster which would serve as indicator how progress toward goal has been made.

Fact is that writers could have expand more on her goal breaking new grounds with it,but they did mistake of not giving her more of role.As its been explained in ex head writer(Takeshi Shudo) blog who admitted his mistake of not developing said character enough,later on sending him back at gym being at that time best way to keep her of the cast.
When even writers admit how they could do more with character and its plots but did mistake of not doing it says alot.

Acftually, for me, good character is not about how much screentime he/she got, but more about what he/she brought into the story. And if we will be objective, both Dawn and May brought very important thing to the story,

There are other things beside competitions which someone can bring to story and overall enjoyment of anime,Like humor,good chemistry,interesting pokemon,playing some role in villains plot helping to save day from them,to help someone else to advance its story(like Misty and Brock did when Ash was startintg helping him to grow into better trainer) playing importanbt role to overall story of show.

Maybe I am wrong and believe me, I hope I am wrong, but for now, I have my doubts.

I understand your concern,but to be fair we cant judge anything from only 4 episodes passing so far.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

"Water Pokemon Master" isn't even her goal till late Johto. In Kanto and Orange Islands, every pokemon she wanted to catch is non-water type: Oddish, Jigglypuff, Togepi...

 

[Hellion]

Hey look a nice thread about people saying what they want to see in Best Wishes

*reads a few posts*

OMG How did this turn into yet another Misty thread? >____>

Anyway... what do I want to see different in Best Wishes? Ash with a rocket launcher It's not so much different as it is combining stuff that worked about the different sagas and leaving out the stuff that didn't work so well.

- Funny characters and pokemon on the main cast
- Well handled vilain team(s)
- Well written battles
- Developpement and focus for all the characters and their pokemon
- Arcs for Gym Leaders that lets us get to know them as characters
- Cameos from important game characters
- A Good League

 

[Cybersai]

I'd like to see Ash rotate his older pokemon for mini-tournaments like DP's tag battle arc.

 

[peno]

It means becoming best or one of best water trainers in world,as Misty several times stated herself which means being at least on E4 level(possibly even higher),being worldwide recognized,winning all tasks which are required in order to earn this title along with having complete knowleadge about this type.

Also some of E4 members like Lorelai and Lance are labelled as ice and dragon masters with this goal being possible to accomplish.



There was more to it,thing is writers never exploited her goal more.Character herself stated how travelling,battling and partaking in competitions will help her achieve her goal.



There are several reasons why gym leader is completely different from goal of becoming water master:
-if Misty viewed gym as way to achieve goal she wouldnt left it in first place to travell not wanting to return to it until she was forced to.

-competitions like Whirl Cup clearly showed how in order to achieve this goal is needed to partake in prestige water tournaments winning them.As matter of fact term water master was brought up by prof.Elm who mentioned how winner of Whirl Cup receives title(Alpha Omega of water types) by which water masters were called in past.Of course winning 1 tournament wont make you best,but it pushes you one step forward toward ultimate destination being indication how there exist tasks which someone needs to overcome to achieve this dream with mentioned tournament being one of them.

-best water trainers are currently Prima(E4 mmber) and Wallace with no way for gym leader to reach this kind of level by staying a gym.
None of gym leaders ever reached E4 or champion level for several reasons not being possible to become this strong at this position.
Fact is that you cant become water master(top water trainer in world)as gym leader which isnt enough in order to fulfill this.

Every gym leader who surpassed limit becoming stronger left gym at one point.Like Wallace did setting on journey becoming champion,contest master and one of top water trainers in world.

You asked what could have one type trainer do?Plenty of things,like partaking in chain of events like Whirl Cup advancing its goal aswell sharping it skills through battles with other water type trainers whom share similar ambitions(like Marins from OI or Trinity which Misty met during travelling) and general trainers forming rivarlies along with improving its roaster which would serve as indicator how progress toward goal has been made.

Fact is that writers could have expand more on her goal breaking new grounds with it,but they did mistake of not giving her more of role.As its been explained in ex head writer(Takeshi Shudo) blog who admitted his mistake of not developing said character enough,later on sending him back at gym being at that time best way to keep her of the cast.
When even writers admit how they could do more with character and its plots but did mistake of not doing it says alot.

Well, OK I admit there is more one type trainer can achieve, but Misty never really had such ambitions. Maybe it was just writing mistake, but Misty never really was ambitious outside of some small hints. And that is, I believe, why most people don't care that much for Misty. Just my opinion though. But we better stop here before we will cause another flamewar.
Just one nitpick note, Prima=Lorelei (Prima is just dub mistake, in Japanese Prima and Lorelei had the same name), so if you call Lorelei Ice type trainer, then Prima is Ice type trainer as well. But that is not really that important anyway.

There are other things beside competitions which someone can bring to story and overall enjoyment of anime,Like humor,good chemistry,interesting pokemon,playing some role in villains plot helping to save day from them,to help someone else to advance its story(like Misty and Brock did when Ash was startintg helping him to grow into better trainer) playing importanbt role to overall story of show.

Yes, you are right, but we still talk about kids anime and what kids want most is competition. Yes, there must be other things in the story, but they must never surpass competitions or else… well, we already have precedent, it happened with Johto saga, when ratings went down and in some countries it was even the end of Pokémon franchise for quite long time. I only hope it will not happen again.

 

[cassius335]

Re: compared to other season, what do you want to see different in Best Wishes?

No, it didn't. You were tricked into thinking that because you still haven't figured out the simple fact that Satoshi is probably never going to win a tournament. Because apparently 13+ years of the writers bashing that fact into our brains isn't enough for you.

This show is about the journey, not the destination. I don't know what's so fucking hard about that.

Actually, I'm with Scott here. Love of Arceus, it'd be nice for Satoshi to actually win a Tournament (and watching him Battle the Sinnoh Elite 4 would have been fun).

And Satoshi DID place Top 4 for Sinnoh, so he's progressing up the rankings again. At the very least, I'm hoping he'll place top 2 for the Isshu tornament, though him winning it would be great.

Long story short, never say never.

Winning one League =/= being a Pokémon Master

True, which is why I assume Ash can win a leauge without ending the series.

I seriously doubt they'll ever do anything like Orange or BF again
Either it's 3 years Isshu like they say or it's 4 years Isshu like DP was

You can't know that as a fact.

I can't see Ash visiting an old region again - AG proved we can barely notice it's that old region (you could believe he's still in Hoenn...) so it's really pointless

It's possible the writers will learn their mistakes and not do that again. If they manage to remember to keep the Isshudex and Hoenndex seperate, a Hoenn mini-arc could work.

Unless 70% of Isshu is filler, its impossible to stretch it out that long with Ash as the only quest.

True, but that's why something else might just come into play to help fill the time.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

"Water Pokemon Master" isn't even her goal till late Johto. In Kanto and Orange Islands, every pokemon she wanted to catch is non-water type: Oddish, Jigglypuff, Togepi...

Actually Misty mentoned goal of water master couple of times in early Johto too like in Totodile Duel episode,and she mentioned several times in Kanto and OI how she wants to become worlds greatest water trainer which is essentially same thing.

True she wanted to catch other types of pokemon but falling for cute stuff was part of her character,with her preference for water type being showed several times wantin to become best wiht them starting from Kanto having dreams to catch Tentacruel,some mysterious water pokemon,eventually getting Poliwag in Orange Islands.

Well, OK I admit there is more one type trainer can achieve, but Misty never really had such ambitions. Maybe it was just writing mistake, but Misty never really was ambitious outside of some small hints.

Im not sure where was the last time you watched early seasons but back than Misty showed sveral times determination to become best worldwide water trainer,bringing up goal of becoming water master several times,idolizing Lorelai who she viewed as idol admiring her skill in using water and ice pokemon,aswell being visibly excited when she entered big competitions like Whirl cup taking her ambition very seriously.

Its just that writers made mistake of not giving her much of focus not bringing this stuff often enough admitting eventually this.

However i agree this is not place and time to furher discuss this kind of things so ill stop at this.

Just one nitpick note, Prima=Lorelei (Prima is just dub mistake, in Japanese Prima and Lorelei had the same name), so if you call Lorelei Ice type trainer, then Prima is Ice type trainer as well. But that is not really that important anyway.

I see,i just used both names in case of possible missunderstanding.

Yes, you are right, but we still talk about kids anime and what kids want most is competition. Yes, there must be other things in the story, but they must never surpass competitions or else… well, we already have precedent, it happened with Johto saga, when ratings went down and in some countries it was even the end of Pokémon franchise for quite long time. I only hope it will not happen again.

Fair enough which is why i dont doubt how somehing action involved will be given to Iris and possibly Dento too.It may not be events on same kind of level like contests were but some role will be given to them,along with Ashs usual gym quest.
Writers had proven how they learned from past mistakes as new sagas like Sinnoh showed handling many things better which has been evidened,like Ash getting proper rivals(like Paul),groups pokemon getting more attention and characters themselves,villains(like team galactic)gettng better development with writers being more consistent compared to Johto days.

Speaking of Johto,main reasons due to people complaints was indeed not giving enough screentime to other characters beside Ash,drop of plots like GS ball,Ash pokemon team and rivals not getting deserved treatment and certain character replacemnt at end of region was one of reasons too.

But with all its flaws Johto to be fair had its ups too.

 

[CrazyYanmega]

I want to see Ash get another Electric Type Pokemon. Denchura would be fun!

 

[Pokeshipper15]

Ash stop losing to level 5 rookie trainers. seriously.
Misty back as a surprise, and Ash winning a league. Seriously is that too much to ask?????