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what don't you like about hg/ss?

Maple Man

The Dark Pokemon Trainer
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I thought Fantina was French.

The translators gave her a French accent to show that she is foriegn in the American games, as she was a foriegner in the Japanese games. But I guess Melissa could be name for a French woman. I just assumed Fantina was an American like Lt. Surge.
 

Absur'd

Simply Farfetch'd
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Well, Surge did model himself after the greatest American hero of all time: Hulk Hogan. So I guess it does work...

Ignore me.

The Manectric on his team bothers me more, but I just let it slide because its name is MANectric.

The Relicanth on Brock's team confused me, then I remembered he's a fossil enthusiast.
 

Nevando

The Weirdest Tower Tycoon
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I believe I remember reading somewhere that in the French games, Fatina is english [as in, more in the case of Maple Mans theory that she is simply foreign], so... yeah.
 

Camille

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It irks me that they never fixed the level curve, as you can't explore Mt.Silver nor Cerulean Cave before beating Blue, and his strongest Pokemon is a Lv 60 Pidgeot, yet the wild Pokemon in these locations are in their high 40s to low 50s. I also really dislike the fact you can't get Probopass, Magnezone, Leafeon and Glaceon unless you trade (they should have put the Ice Rock in Ice Path/Seafoam Islands, the Moss Rock in Ilex Forest/Viridian Forest, and the special magnetic field in Cerulean Cave/Route 10). The move tutors in Battle Frontier all require way too many Battle Points to teach moves, and the prizes in Game Corner are too costly, too, especially since you can't buy Coins anymore. This is true for the prizes in the Pokeathlon Dome, too.
 

CynthiaLover

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Pretty much everything.

From the atrocious level curve to the poor Mon distribution (there is a noticeable lack of Johto Mons IN Johto) to terrible TM distribution and more. The rival is an unsympathetic hypocrite who is no better than the "villains" of the game that he hates, Team Rocket are a joke, the plot (if you can call it that) is just blegh, and the main "gimmick" (walking Pokemon) serves no real purpose (I don't like gimmicks that don't have an actual in-game purpose or effect other than cosmetic). Not to mention the Apricorn Ball are terrible (good concept when created, horrendous execution) because they're too overspecialized, yet everyone treats them like Arceus' gift to the world (Legends: Arceus did the Apricorn Ball concept much better). Also there is the fact that we had more Kanto glorification (which was really outstaying its welcome at that point). And as the above poster said the Game Corner, Battle Frontier, and Pokeathlon Dome's prizes/moves were too costly and required a LOT of grinding in some form or another (effectively: too much work, not enough reward). And the Berry Pots required too many steps through the menus to be practical (give me berry patches any day, even if it means I have to camp out in front of them I'll take that over the Berry Pots, as at least that gave you a good visual aid right away).

Overall, I put them as the worst of the remakes and some of the worst games overall, right up there with Gen 1 and XY. I honestly don't see what's so great about them yet everyone calls them the greatest games in the franchise. All I see are horrendous flaws that were never addressed (sans glitches) and useless additions that were either purely cosmetic or too much of a hassle to make proper use of. Trying to play one is an absolute chore for me to even attempt. HGSS are some of the worst games in the franchise and nothing will change my mind about it (so don't bother trying).
 

CharizardFan7

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Next to nothing. These are most likely the best main series Pokemon games in the entire franchise, as well as my probably my personal favorites, next to the Gen 3 games I started out with. And as a bonus, as someone who loves history, I absolutely adore the Johto region and all of its rich history and wonderful rustic charms. :giggle:
 

CynthiaLover

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worst remakes? have you played bdsp?

I have. And I liked BDSP well enough to rank them as the second best remakes in my eyes, after ORAS. I'm not blind to their flaws but I enjoyed BDSP far more than HGSS. So, yeah, HGSS are the worst remakes to me. Deal with it.
 

Daren

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*Too much content gated behind limited time events
*The broken level curve from G/S/C wasn't really fixed
*Pokémon distribution is still shaky (Pokéwalker helps a bit but I dislike games using that sort of out-of-game thing to paper up holes)
*Getting a team for the Battle Frontier is a nightmare in international releases because of Voltorb Flip.
 

Rockapheller

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I have just recently finished another HeartGold run with the team of Feraligatr, Crobat, Heracross, Togekiss, Sudowoodo and Piloswine. There are a few things that I can list down that made the whole thing unnecessarily more unpleasant for me.
  • As already stated above, the level curve was horrible. However, I found a solution to it in my own way. I challenged the Elite 4 to gain some valuable Exp. instead of wild Pokémon. With the Exp. Share, you can focus on any Pokémon on your team. But then again, by the time I was about to challenge Clair, my team had only the first three members, so I moved Togepi and Sudowoodo from PC, and caught a Swinub. It took quite some time to level them up to reach the other team members.
  • The distribution of the second generation Pokémon mostly doesn't make any sense. I really wanted to have a Houndoom on my regular party, but it was only available in Kanto for whatever reason. And, for example, when you look at Houndour's locations in the games, you can first time properly catch and train one only in Pokémon Platinum and X. That's all. I would like more Johto Pokémon representation in Johto, and Kanto Pokémon representation in Kanto.
  • You can't get a Shiny Stone until the post game of the post game. Togetic does not have the greatest stats to carry your team on, but you have to finish the post game, and then with the access to Rock Climb, only then you can get a Shiny Stone to evolve Togetic. It was only the second time that I challenged the Elite Four that I could get that Pokémon. Until the very end, I would have Togetic be knocked out fairly easily.
  • How slow could you make the HP bar? Giving a Hyper Potion to a Pokémon during battle just makes it unbearable to wait after some point.
Not the most original complaints that I have, but the game is what it is. Still, it was enjoyable to go through two regions. Piloswine was my favorite on that party, I guess.
 

There Is No Arceus

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I have. And I liked BDSP well enough to rank them as the second best remakes in my eyes, after ORAS. I'm not blind to their flaws but I enjoyed BDSP far more than HGSS. So, yeah, HGSS are the worst remakes to me. Deal with it.
i can understand thinking BDSP are better games than HGSS (though i disagree), but BDSP most definitely is not the better remake. the point of a remake is to improve upon the original and become the definitive version of that game. HGSS did not fix all of Johto's flaws, but it did make significant strides to improve the region, to the point that there's no real reason to play the gen 2 games anymore. BDSP completely failed at improving on gen 4. many people, myself included, still consider Platinum to be the best version of Sinnoh, which shows that BDSP utterly failed as a remake, however enjoyable it may be on its own.

anyway, though HGSS are among my favorite pokemon games, i'll admit they're not without flaws. it fixed a lot of problems like how boring Kanto was, and added fun new features like walking pokemon. But it still suffers from the problems endemic to the Johto region. I don't really mind the pokemon availability all that much, but the level curve of the wild pokemon is atrocious. give me something to grind on. also, kanto is never going to be interesting no matter how much polish you put on that bare-bones region; best they could do was bring it from boring to meh.
 

CynthiaLover

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i can understand thinking BDSP are better games than HGSS (though i disagree), but BDSP most definitely is not the better remake. the point of a remake is to improve upon the original and become the definitive version of that game. HGSS did not fix all of Johto's flaws, but it did make significant strides to improve the region, to the point that there's no real reason to play the gen 2 games anymore. BDSP completely failed at improving on gen 4. many people, myself included, still consider Platinum to be the best version of Sinnoh, which shows that BDSP utterly failed as a remake, however enjoyable it may be on its own.

anyway, though HGSS are among my favorite pokemon games, i'll admit they're not without flaws. it fixed a lot of problems like how boring Kanto was, and added fun new features like walking pokemon. But it still suffers from the problems endemic to the Johto region. I don't really mind the pokemon availability all that much, but the level curve of the wild pokemon is atrocious. give me something to grind on. also, kanto is never going to be interesting no matter how much polish you put on that bare-bones region; best they could do was bring it from boring to meh.

Well, that's your opinion. I have more fun with BDSP than I ever had with HGSS. Johto as a whole sucks and I'd rather take barebones DP Sinnoh over revamped Johto. HGSS's flaws are too numerous to make it enjoyable to me (especially the grinding, which was at its worst in HGSS due to the terrible level curve) while at least most of the flaws in BDSP were addressed by patches. At least Sinnoh had a better plot, better Mon distribution, better TM distribution, and better hero/villain characters (I mean, Team Galactic almost won, as they were always one step ahead of the player, unlike Team Rocket who floundered every step of the way). Really, I see BDSP as superior to HGSS despite their flaws, as BDSP was more enjoyable to me than HGSS ever was. You couldn't pay me to play HGSS again while I'd be more willing to play BDSP without bribery.
 

There Is No Arceus

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Well, that's your opinion. I have more fun with BDSP than I ever had with HGSS. Johto as a whole sucks and I'd rather take barebones DP Sinnoh over revamped Johto. HGSS's flaws are too numerous to make it enjoyable to me (especially the grinding, which was at its worst in HGSS due to the terrible level curve) while at least most of the flaws in BDSP were addressed by patches. At least Sinnoh had a better plot, better Mon distribution, better TM distribution, and better hero/villain characters (I mean, Team Galactic almost won, as they were always one step ahead of the player, unlike Team Rocket who floundered every step of the way). Really, I see BDSP as superior to HGSS despite their flaws, as BDSP was more enjoyable to me than HGSS ever was. You couldn't pay me to play HGSS again while I'd be more willing to play BDSP without bribery.
BDSP are plenty enjoyable in their own right, but they did not do what a remake should do. they did not improve upon the original in a meaningful way, and in fact made the experience worse in many ways (let me turn off the fucking EXP share). in my eyes, there is no reason to play these remakes over Platinum. they are not the definitive version of Sinnoh and are thus a failed remake.

on the other hand, HGSS, for all its flaws, did significantly improve upon the Johto experience, to the point where the original johto games are completely obsolete. this is what a remake should do. it should strive to be the definitive version; to essentially replace the old versions. HGSS did this, BDSP did not. HGSS is therefore the better remake, even if it's debatable whether it's the better game.
 
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CynthiaLover

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BDSP are plenty enjoyable in their own right, but they did not do what a sequel should do. they did not improve upon the original in a meaningful way, and in fact made the experience worse in many ways (let me turn off the fucking EXP share). in my eyes, there is no reason to play these remakes over Platinum. they are not the definitive version of Sinnoh and are thus a failed remake.

on the other hand, HGSS, for all its flaws, did significantly improve upon the Johto experience, to the point where the original johto games are completely obsolete. this is what a remake should do. it should strive to be the definitive version; to essentially replace the old versions. HGSS did this, BDSP did not. HGSS is therefore the better remake, even if it's debatable whether it's the better game.

Again, that's how you feel, not how I feel. And you're failing to see a key factor in my decision: fun. I can have a lot of fun with BDSP despite its flaws. When it comes to HGSS I never have fun, as it's always a chore and a drag to play, no matter how many times I try to go into the games with a fresh opinion. Thus, one of the ways BDSP are superior is because I have more fun. And I like the always on EXP Share, as it reduces the need to grind, which is one of HGSS biggest flaws that was NEVER addressed from the original games. And remember, the games were touted to be "faithful remakes" from the get-go, so one had to expect the possibility they would be DP Sinnoh with a fresh coat of paint. Yet they did have improvements over the original DP (more available Mons in the GU, easy to obtain multiple TMs, less grinding, more intelligent AI, modern-day conveniences like no need to have an HM slave, etc) so that did make them superior to the original DP. Yes, Platinum is superior, I don't deny that, as Platinum is one of my favorite games in the franchise, but I'm still quite happy with BDSP because I'm still enjoying myself while playing them. While I can never be happy with HGSS due to how painful it is to play them no matter how much I try to look past those flaws. I can accept BDSP's flaws because I'm still having fun while I cannot accept HGSS's flaws (and Johto's flaws as a whole) because I'm NOT having fun.

A game's fun level will be a key factor if I consider it better or worse than another game in the same franchise. For example, I love Breath of Fire 3 more than Breath of Fire 4 because the former is more fun to play, has better mechanics, and is a more enjoyable experience despite the fact that Breath of Fire 4 has a "better" plot and sprite work. The characters in Breath of Fire 3 were also more memorable and well-defined, and while the story wasn't "superior" to Breath of Fire 4 it did bring about certain thought-provoking questions that 4 lacked. Especially at the end of the game where, if you defeat Myria, and watch the ending cutscene, you wonder to yourself, "Did we make the right decision?" as the remaining party members look out into the Desert of Death. You don't have that same type of question when Breath of Fire 4's good ending is played. Thus, I consider Breath of Fire 3 the best game in the Breath of Fire franchise for a number of reasons, with one key factor being that it's more fun.

You need to realize this. BDSP are more fun to me while HGSS are an absolute chore to play. BDSP did give improvements over the original DP so it's not simply a cut-and-paste game with a fresh coat of paint. Thus, because of such factors I consider BDSP superior games to HGSS. Both have glaring flaws, I won't deny that, but I'm still able to have fun despite BDSP's flaws while I cannot have fun when HGSS's flaws keep rearing their mugs. Now, I'm going to ask you politely to please simply DROP the conversation, as I will not keep creating multiple posts arguing with someone who refuses to listen to my side of the argument. Let's just agree to disagree and call it a day, okay? Because this argument has gone on long enough and no matter what you say I will not budge on my opinion. You'll find out the hard way that when I plant myself down on something I feel strongly about, I become the "Shield" side of the "Spear VS Shield" proverb, and I will not be pierced. So let's just end it here and not dig it up again. I feel that BDSP are superior to HGSS, you feel the opposite. Fine, we both have different opinions, that's perfectly normal. Agree to disagree and leave it at that, as I will not respond to another post from you if you insist on continuing this argument.
 

There Is No Arceus

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someone who refuses to listen to my side of the argument.
pot, meet kettle.

if you had actually tried to understand what i was saying, you'd see that i wasn't making the case that HGSS is the better game. i have a lot of nostalgia for it, but i can understand that its flaws can be off-putting. i was making the case that HGSS better does what a remake should do and is thus a better remake.
 

Palamon

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The level curve wasn't really improved in these remakes, imo.
 
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