What DP needs to bring me back to the series.

[ShadyWolf]

1 and 3 are so wrong, it's ridiculous.

1: The point of the game is to battle. That's what you do. The reason it isn't stated as such is because the market can't afford to hear "DO BATTLE" from a game targeted at young kids, or there'll be a huge societal backlash. Nonetheless, that's what you do the entire game. Competitive battling is playing against someone with some modium of talent--something the computer AI cannot have in PKMN.

3: The game is not a challenge. Period. The AI is awful; the opposing trainers, a joke.

As for contests, that's not what the game is truly about, just like breeding isn't what the game is truly about. The game is about battling.

A-ha...the Smogon comment got to you, ja?

Well, at any rate...the crux of the Pokemon experience is undeniably battling...very true. However, one thing remains unchanged: it's a game. It's meant to entertain, and believe it or not, that doesn't always mean using the cheapest or most powerful Pokemon, guy. It doesn't even mean that you have to use the mediocre Pokemon. I have the most fun using my favorites, despite their use in battle on the whole, and I'm sure many people would agree with me.

I know people like you probably view Pokemon as drones, with each drone having a specialty; you don't like to focus on a Pokemon's originality or uniqueness. There's the Blissey drone, specializing in HP and Special Defense, and the Metagross drone, specializing in Attack and Defense. You don't use a Pokemon because you think it looks interesting, like its character specifics or otherwise...you use it because you like its stats, and its stats alone. You want it for its ability to battle, and solely for that reason. Personally, I use Pokemon I think look cool, would be fun to raise due to moveset/etc or otherwise generally like. Sure, some have good stats, some have bad, but it's a fun experience. Too many people try to turn something as simple as Pokemon into some extreme form of competition, wasting their lives to find that perfect combination of whatever, just so that little win/loss total tilts for the gain. Whatever.

As for the game's AI...people have ways of making the climb to success in battle more difficult. Personally, I've made it a tougher experience by teaching my Pokemon weaker moves and not going with the best Nature I can find. Take a Brave Pelipper into the E4 sometime...it's a fun experience.

 

[evkl]

Hey hey, I won the IGN ICE Epic tournament playing UnderUsed Pokemon. Don't lecture me on the Metagross or the Blissey--I don't need that, because I don't use that. I played a team of Primape, Azumarill, Gligar, Furret, and two others to win. You're one-hundred percent wrong on my outlook--it isn't the Pokemon that matters as a drone, it's the ease of the mastery of strategy to any specific Pokemon, whether it's Regice or Raticate, Articuno or Azumarill. There's just an inherent (or multiple inherent) 'right' way(s) to use a Pokemon.

The game isn't challenging in and of itself--it's just not. And that's why battling humans is important--it brings challenge. Obviously you could artificially underlevel your Pokemon to make the Elite 4 a challenge, but that's dumb. The AI is still bad, too, regardless of how you handicap yourself. Ultimately, you're not improving the AI any, you're just degrading yourself.

 

[Jukain]

Hello, we are humans, not robots. We are allowed to not work on logic.

 

[evkl]

Rational thought is the foundation of human existance; to deny rational thought is to deny your very presence in this universe. And rational thought requires logic.

 

[Jukain]

Guess what? I don't care about your universe. *shuts up now*

 

[Joey]

That looked like a pretty good sign of a losing argument there, evkl.

The fact of the matter is, not everyone's playing pokemon for competitive battling. I don't have anyone around here to play with, so it's pointless for me to worry about creating THE ULTIMATE TEAM. So I train the pokemon I like, whether they're strong by a competitive battlers perspective or not.

Hence why I have a level 100 Bagon =D

 

[Pieomon]

My L100 Metapod owns all (and a utter pain to train on Red/Blue without EXP Share too).

One thing I'd love to see gone is the EV cap, which drives me crazy with batteling, it often felt like I had to stuff my pokemon in a box until I have 'ev trained' them or they would be underpowered for the Battle Tower and such.

 

[evkl]

If you call "losing an argument" arguing on the side of nearly three thousand years of established philosophy, dating all the way back to Aristotle, than I do suppose I lose.

But to say that we are not creatures of rationality removes the distinction between humans and dogs; dogs can think, but they can't rationalize things like we can. That's a very distinct point of human being.

And I didn't say everyone plays for competitive battling; I just said that competitive battling is the pinnacle of the experience, because the game is made to battle.

 

[Joey]

It still looked like a really lame way to reply to his post from a lurker standpoint, and I lurk at a lot of arguments. It sounded like you couldn't refute his argument with anything better so you took the high and mighty route of philosphy. He's pretty much right though, we aren't robots. We can choose to train weaker pokemon even if it defies your logic. Because believe it or not, some of us find it fun.

And compeditive battling is only the pinnacle to you. For me, it's training the pokemon I like to level 100. For someone else, it may be simply completing the pokedex. It's not a set thing, dispite what you believe.

 

[evkl]

So his low, basically 'your mom' reply of "well I don't care about your philosophy" is better than my high argument grounded in reason?

And I didn't say competitive battling was the pinnacle subjectively--it's the peak of the game. It's the highest form the game reaches, competitive battling. You may derive excitement from other sources, and may in fact find competitive battling the lowest of the experiences of the game, but when it comes to refinement and difficulty, nothing is more intense than competitive battling. Beating the Elite 4 with a level three ratatta isn't difficult, it's asinine, so don't throw out that excuse.

 

[Joey]

I wasn't talking about his reply, this was about you going, "Well you can't exist in this universe cause you don't use logic neener neener neener." Because that's what it looked like to me.

And I see your point, but I still disagree with you. I don't see compeditive battling being more intense then anything else in the game, as there's so much more to the game to me. And even if you're completely right, that still doesn't mean that every pokemon in the game needs to be a hyper-intense compeditive battler.

 

[bell02+]

lol, this is why I love new Pokemon RPG idea topics. There are a whole lot of varring views. (Seriously these topics are a lot of fun!)

Well, I guess I can say that I think evkl is right about competitive battling being the true core of Pokemon. I believe it is even a line in one of the movies (Japanese version I think).

That's why I think there should be a merger. Like real life there are multiple roads, you can take a test and see that you are really good at Math and Suck horribly at writing, however you can still become a world renown writer if you desire enough to be. That's what I've been saying about what I want, it isn't something easy, but a possiblity.

---most long time users might have heard me say the last part before so it's safe to skip

This peak of competitive battling can also change too with new modes for pokemon. Multiplayer Contest battles can be really intresting, especially if they had the Battle Fronteir-like appeal battles from the TV show at the end. Sure vsing the computer in a contest battle feels more like battling luck, but just imagine how it could feel with other people.

Also there could be other things could become competitions. Just looking to the TV show and you can get good ideas also:
Catching contest can be very intresting (fishing and safari zone otherwise). It also can create new specialized pokemon.
Pokemon Races also would be fun, I'm picturing something similar to Zelda 64's horseracing minigames in 2D, but I think it has potential to be very cool.
Pokemon Wrestling also could be intresting, you won't battle with the moster like before. You can suggest a tactic, and cheer, but they'd do the battling on their own.

I also think those minigames training should effect the way pokemon battle in the main game also. I think it's a natural idea too, found in the real world. One thing I thought would be intresting to put in the game is monster stamina (not necisarily like Monster Rancher though) so I would think a race monster could run around more without loosing as much. I also see tough pokemon and wrestlers having more physical strength, with a higher critical for physical moves. Also like-wise, Shouldn't a pokemon with Max Beauty or Cuteness be the best at attracting other monsters?

It seems like pokemon is changing into more of a direction of realisim with each game, so I think it's natural.

So far it seems like cheating devices for the DS is very difficult to have DS games cheat, so I don't think that'll be a major problem (especially with how difficult cheat codes are to be made for the pokemon series in general)

 

[Another Fan]

Hm, I truly find the AI in game hard. At least in some situations.

But what I disagree with is that the backbone of the game is human-human battling. I enjoy more the aspects of exploring and collecting and playing pretend in a fantasy world with interesting creatures. Not the battling. No pleasue I find in battling besides interesting pokemon or moves. Anyone else like that? For that reason, I would say that pokemon is a different thing to different people. To me different pokemon, weak and not helpful is interesting and draws me in. To others it doesn't. But that doesn't mean we should remove it cause people like me, would be disappointed.

 

[Kater]

Im not sure a ton of people have thought of this yet, but training in D/P will be tedious. With the evolutions and everything all those that had Sneasels in their teams, Mr. Mimes so forth have to retrain them to restrengthen their pokemon. We've all gone through this before but how will the public react to a preevo of snorlax once, (the others i mean).

 

[evkl]

People...had sneasel in their teams?

And why on earth would anyone need to retrain anything? It's not like they're going to de-evolve stuff on the trade...

 

[Zeta]

But what I disagree with is that the backbone of the game is human-human battling. I enjoy more the aspects of exploring and collecting and playing pretend in a fantasy world with interesting creatures. Not the battling. No pleasue I find in battling besides interesting pokemon or moves. Anyone else like that? For that reason, I would say that pokemon is a different thing to different people. To me different pokemon, weak and not helpful is interesting and draws me in. To others it doesn't. But that doesn't mean we should remove it cause people like me, would be disappointed.

I am, I never have anyone to play against anyways.

 

[Another Fan]

Oh good. I am not the only one.

 

[FabuVinny]

With Sneasel in this context, don't forget about Manyula. It could be a useful team addition in D/P.

 

[Fig]

I think you guys misunderstood what Evan said.

Of course individual people will like different things about the game - that'S the nature of games, after all. But what he meant by saying competitive battlings is the pinacle of the pokémon experience is that it's the high-end test of your skill and dedication at this game.

Anyone can ultimately beat the elite four. Anyone can - if they have time to waste and access to the proper resources - get all catchable pokémon (ie, excluding the ultra-secret ones). Anyone can even beat the Elite four with a team of caterpies if they really have time to waste.

Not everyone can win a human v human pokémon tournament. THAT takes skills, understanding of the game, etc.

Hence why it's the pinacle : because it's the final, ultimate test of how good you are at this game. There's no better way to see how good someone is at pokémon than competitive human vs human battlings. And that's not only true of pokémon, but of just about every strategy game out there (which pokémon battling is, ultimately) : the last, truest test of how good you are at them is facing another human in a one-on-one online match.

Which is not to say that it must be the thing you find the most enjoyable about the game, far from it.

 

[Jukain]

I understand and I apologize. I am not a competitive battler, nor will I ever be. There are no ways I could think of to change pokemon, I like it as it is. I know that something is going to happen that will change it in some fashion. No generation has ever failed to give us new features that expand the pokemon experience, and that is good because they know that the same game over and over would be boring. True, at its core, pokemon remains the same as it was in the first gen. I could say the same for many other game series that have lasted as long as pokemon has now. Even with little changes, it is still different. We have been told this gen will try to outdo all the others, and I know that will be extremely difficult, considering the many people that still want the second gen's lost features to be reborn, or to radically retool the core of pokemon to better match other successful RPGs. (I personally think that would make pokemon lose its uniqueness.) I wish them luck, they are going to need it. It is impossible to please everyone. Compromises must be made, or there will be chaos.