What if 4kids dubbed XY/XYZ?

[Charmander4]

Worse. XYZ is, arguably, more serious of a series, sort of like how DP was. So 4Kids probably would have done away with a lot of seriousness in attempts to make jokes and have a lot of characters have goofy French accents, along with more childish dialogue~ 4Kids in general just censors things that don't need to be censored and considering that there was more seriousness in the plot with Zygarde, it's pretty much a given that I probably wouldn't have been able to take it as seriously, as it would have likely been edited. Oh, and they probably would have played up on Amourshipping, which could be good or bad depending on how people feel about ships~

Perhaps I could see them doing SuMo decently, as it's a humor filled series, but they would certainly have done poorly with XY (and by poorly, I mean, not as good as TPCI, not that it wouldn't have been enjoyable at all)~

I have no idea how you can call the current dub more serious when the writing is lowest common denominator and full of stupid alliterations and slang and everyone saying "k!" "Alright!" And other lame one liners all the time. The 4Kids dub was for a more mature audience and the writing reflected it.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

As a person whose been around since the beginning, I loved 4Kids for introducing me to Pokemon. Pokemon was probably their least cringe-worthy series they've dubbed.

As a company, though, I don't trust them with dubbing. They're loads better than Saban and DiC, but most fandubs are better than those companies too.

However, would I want them to be in charge of the XY series dub? It would've been fun, but I wouldn't want their dubbing. Their music, yes. At this point, though, TCPi has hit their stride and are improving with each season.

Sarah has found a voice for Ash, and she's no longer trying to sound like Veronica Taylor with a deeper voice.

The cast selection was perfect for the main group.

Yes, Rocket Gang could have much better writing, but its not the insult it was during DP.

I like that TCPi uses phrases like, "'Kay." Ash sounds very youthful, as he should. He reminds me much more of Satoshi than Veronica's version did.

TCPi isn't afraid of cultures outside of the US also. Riceballs are not doughnuts, and macarons would have been hot dogs with 4Kids.

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure 4Kids would do a good job with the season, but I think TCPi did fantastic with it.

Also, 4Kids is never coming back. We need to let it RIP.

 

[JapaneseVersionFan22]

As a person whose been around since the beginning, I loved 4Kids for introducing me to Pokemon. Pokemon was probably their least cringe-worthy series they've dubbed.

As a company, though, I don't trust them with dubbing. They're loads better than Saban and DiC, but most fandubs are better than those companies too.

However, would I want them to be in charge of the XY series dub? It would've been fun, but I wouldn't want their dubbing. Their music, yes. At this point, though, TCPi has hit their stride and are improving with each season.

Sarah has found a voice for Ash, and she's no longer trying to sound like Veronica Taylor with a deeper voice.

The cast selection was perfect for the main group.

Yes, Rocket Gang could have much better writing, but its not the insult it was during DP.

I like that TCPi uses phrases like, "'Kay." Ash sounds very youthful, as he should. He reminds me much more of Satoshi than Veronica's version did.

TCPi isn't afraid of cultures outside of the US also. Riceballs are not doughnuts, and macarons would have been hot dogs with 4Kids.

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure 4Kids would do a good job with the season, but I think TCPi did fantastic with it.

Also, 4Kids is never coming back. We need to let it RIP.

When I was 9, I made a sleepover at my cousin's house because my parents were away for work. There, I borrowed a DVD of Pokemon Master Quest and the first episode I watched is Plant it now... Diglett it later... which at first I found to be boring. Then, I also watched Pokemon: Indigo League, at their cable TV, and I found it more interesting than Master Quest. Also, at that time was at its final episodes, and I would cry if my releatives were still watching something else. Then, my dad later bought me a DVD of Master Quest followed by Advanced Challenge months afterwards. My favorite episodes in the Master Quest Saga back then were the Blackthorn City arc episodes. Back then the 4kids dub music was quite memorable to me and I also didn't recognize the Johto battle music since I haven't played Gold and Silver back then until I borrowed a copy of Pokemon Silver from my other cousin's half Japanese neighbor(though the Pokemon Silver copy was in English though)which was eventually given to him.I also found the Whirl Cup episodes and the three Lugia arc episodes interesting, but the cry of Butch's Hitmontop, which is "Hitmon-top-top-top-top-top-top-top-top-top!"(when using Rolling kick) quite awkward, battle referees sound like they are sleepy, so in short, character voices give me goosebumps. I also received a DVD copy which contains eight out of the nine first Pokemon movies in English and I had the same experience with the voice acting and the dub music for those first three movies were quite forgettable, and I would never get to finish watching any of those movies in the DVD and the dub of the movies in the DVD made me quite sleepy. Fast forward 2016-2017, I managed to watch the Kanto, Orange Islands, and Johto seasons as well as the first six movies in the Japanese langauge! Man, the voice acting and background music really hyped me up! Especially when it comes to the Japanese Johto episodes when they began using music from the Japanese version of the Power of One. Hearing the second movie's Japanese OST in the Japanese Johto episodes gives me a rather historical feel. (E.g. Whirl Cup Arc, Ash and Ritchie vs Cassidy and Butch, Ash and Ritchie vs Namba,Ash, Misty, and Ritchie trying to save Lugia, Eusine vs Suicune etc.)And I finished watching the first, second, third,fifth and sixth movies(the Japanese version of Pokemon 4ever still made me sleepy even I finished watching it, in fact it's a boring movie)in the Japanese language and I never felt sleepy. Also, hearing Butch's Hitmontop say "Kapopopopopo" when using rolling kick in the Japanese version, Professor Namba saying "Donba de wa nai, Nanba de aru!, Erebu, Ikari no Kaminari Panchi! Erebu, Ikari no Juu man boruto!", as well as Ash saying "Erebu no souchi Juu man boruto!" and Ritchie saying "Ikari no souchu neraunda!" really makes me excited, in fact I saved the Japanese version of the three Lugia arc episodes in my mom's tablet. So while I don't hate 4kids and even appreciate them for making Pokemon a worldwide success, nothing beats the Japanese version in terms of voice acting and music.

 

[Team Gaara]

I have no idea how you can call the current dub more serious when the writing is lowest common denominator and full of stupid alliterations and slang and everyone saying "k!" "Alright!" And other lame one liners all the time. The 4Kids dub was for a more mature audience and the writing reflected it.

Becauseee alliteration and slang and the word "K" don't make the series immature? 4Kids was made to make shows more friendly for kids, it's a known fact that that's what their purpose was. Hence we had censoring of things like death to everyone and their mother being sick. TPCI generally doesn't. Editing out Japanese foods as American ones. Also not there with TPCI.

Your issue is dialogue, which, again, if you're constantly editing death to almost completely not exist, it tones down the seriousness. Saying "Alright" and "K" does not make a series immature. LOL, I'm sure if we're to look at some Funi dubs of Anime, you'll find "K" and "Alright" and the show will still be 10X more serious than Pokemon~

 

[Hidden Mew]

The target audience for both dubs is pretty much the same too. At the very least, there wouldn't be a significant age gap between the target audiences for both dubs. Both dubs should be aimed at the same target demographic. The 4Kids Pokemon dub is often considered their best dub, which might not be saying a lot given most of their other dubs, but claiming that it had more mature writing or was mature at all is really overselling it.

As for the question in hand, I don't think that 4Kids would have done a better job with XY than TPCI did. They probably would have added in more jokes and toned down some of the more serious moments/events, particularly with the Team Flare arc. If the last few seasons of the 4Kids dub was any indication, they probably would have random paint edits over any Japanese food. The TPCI dub isn't perfect and they do give Team Rocket in particular some bad dialogue for comedy, but all things considered, I thought that the XY dub was fine. It would be kind of surprising if 4Kids lasted long enough to get to XY given their financial situation during its last few years. Losing Pokemon was a heavy blow for them, but even if they managed to keep it, I'm not sure if the company would be in the kind of state to keep dubbing the show or that the Japanese companies would want a third party company like 4Kids to handle the show when they were starting have more in-house companies manage different aspects of the franchise.

 

[Daenerys]

TR would've sounded like actual human beings & the music would've been slightly better.

 

[The Power of Pika]

If they used the same style that they use too and didn't update their style it probably wouldn't be doing so well against all those western cartoons currently. That's assuming the show remained the same as back in Hoenn. I got my doubts Al kahn would have let the show sit in the same spot like that.

The late 90's/2000 style doesn't really hang in there with kids like it use too. Though it is possible they could have updated. The way Al Kahn talks when talking about Toon Goggles future shows he has updated now. He's talking about the tech that kids are into and how to really push forward. I can see internet slang being a must and modern day jokes coming in. Stuff to appeal to the kids of today. Al Kahn has updated his approach and the show would have followed if Pokemon had stayed and he had stayed. It would not have stayed the same.

The big question is how updated Pokemon would have gone. It's possible it would have went further than TPCI since TPCI seems a little inbetween at times or it could have went with a inbetween. When people think 4kids, they think 4kids from those older years. They don't really think of what 4kids could have become based on the changing cartoon industry. Styles come and go and a good marketer keeps up with this.

I don't like Al Kahn's way of handling companies but I'll give him credit that he can really read an industry. I just wish he'd do it without compromising a company to a point it gets sued.=/

The target audience for both dubs is pretty much the same too. At the very least, there wouldn't be a significant age gap between the target audiences for both dubs. Both dubs should be aimed at the same target demographic. The 4Kids Pokemon dub is often considered their best dub, which might not be saying a lot given most of their other dubs, but claiming that it had more mature writing or was mature at all is really overselling it.

As for the question in hand, I don't think that 4Kids would have done a better job with XY than TPCI did. They probably would have added in more jokes and toned down some of the more serious moments/events, particularly with the Team Flare arc. If the last few seasons of the 4Kids dub was any indication, they probably would have random paint edits over any Japanese food. The TPCI dub isn't perfect and they do give Team Rocket in particular some bad dialogue for comedy, but all things considered, I thought that the XY dub was fine. It would be kind of surprising if 4Kids lasted long enough to get to XY given their financial situation during its last few years. Losing Pokemon was a heavy blow for them, but even if they managed to keep it, I'm not sure if the company would be in the kind of state to keep dubbing the show or that the Japanese companies would want a third party company like 4Kids to handle the show when they were starting have more in-house companies manage different aspects of the franchise.

I agree that 4kids would not have lasted long enough to get to XY. They were doing badly financially and their shows were not doing so well with other cartoons starting to steal the spotlight. Even if 4kids had updated their style there was still the issue of the suing.

The suing would have still happened. 4kids was sued for millions by TV tokyo due to breach of contract. They practically lost a tonne of money, their very production studio where they dub the stuff went to Konami that have made it a yugioh only dubbing studio that Konami named 4K media. All their other stuff went to other companies like saban.
Al Kahn "retired" from 4kids before the company collapsed the first time. (he actually came out of retirement and is now working as chairman of Toon Goggles.)

4kids barely survived but they were no longer dubbing any shows. They changed their name to 4licensing corporation and went into bankruptcy again as of last year.=/
Whether they'll come out of it again is unsure.

Thing is this was going to happen regardless of whether Pokemon was with them or not. Pokemon would have likely gone to saban or it would have been taken inhouse with TPCI the moment 4kids started losing everything.=/

 

[Hidden Mew]

I agree that 4kids would not have lasted long enough to get to XY. They were doing badly financially and their shows were not doing so well with other cartoons starting to steal the spotlight. Even if 4kids had updated their style there was still the issue of the suing.

The suing would have still happened. 4kids was sued for millions by TV tokyo due to breach of contract. They practically lost a tonne of money, their very production studio where they dub the stuff went to Konami that have made it a yugioh only dubbing studio that Konami named 4K media. All their other stuff went to other companies like saban.
Al Kahn "retired" from 4kids before the company collapsed the first time. (he actually came out of retirement and is now working as chairman of Toon Goggles.)

4kids barely survived but they were no longer dubbing any shows. They changed their name to 4licensing corporation and went into bankruptcy again as of last year.=/
Whether they'll come out of it again is unsure.

Thing is this was going to happen regardless of whether Pokemon was with them or not. Pokemon would have likely gone to saban or it would have been taken inhouse with TPCI the moment 4kids started losing everything.=/

Yeah, the lawsuit definitely would have happened regardless of whether or not 4Kids still had Pokemon. While losing Pokemon was arguably one of the biggest hits the company took, I think that the economy hitting small companies like 4Kids so hard, none of their other shows being hits and the lawsuit over the Yu-Gi-Oh! license would have pretty much resulted in the same fate. It would just be surprising for 4Kids to keep Pokemon that long before selling off their properties, especially when TPCI would have been around for quite awhile by the time the company went bankrupt. I heard about the 4licensing corporation, but I didn't know that they went into bankruptcy again. That's pretty rough.

I doubt that Pokemon would have gone to Saban. They probably would have tried to get it, but if somehow 4Kids managed to keep a hold on the license until they went bankrupt a few years ago, TPCI definitely would have done whatever it took to get the series themselves. They probably wouldn't want to deal with another third party company after how 4Kids turned out. While 4K Media is where the Yu-Gi-Oh! dubs are handled now, Konami owns the license to the anime and just hires 4K Media to dub the various series now, so even they managed to avoid dealing with another third party company exactly. It's just strange to imagine 4Kids keeping the show for that long with knowing how things turned out for 4Kids in mind.

 

[PockyAddict]

That is true, 4kids would be dead either way and would'nt even last that long to dub the XY anime.

 

[Charmander4]

4Kids was doing well until it lost Pokémon. When you take that into account and the economy crashing is when they got into financial trouble. Pokémon was a huge cash cow for them. It would've probably saved them.

 

[Hidden Mew]

4Kids was doing well until it lost Pokémon. When you take that into account and the economy crashing is when they got into financial trouble. Pokémon was a huge cash cow for them. It would've probably saved them.

I don't know about that. It probably would have helped them, but it might not have been enough to ultimately save the company. The economy crash could have still done irreversible damage to a small company like 4Kids, even with a big hit like Pokemon. They still had the Yu-Gi-Oh! license at the time and while it was never as successful as Pokemon, it was still pretty successful in terms of the merchandise/card sales at least. Plus, there were other factors like not having other successful shows under their belt and dealing with the lawsuit over the Yu-Gi-Oh! license that would still have hurt them. Even after winning the court case, they had to auction off their Saturday morning block and most of their properties. I'd still say that losing Pokemon was the biggest financial blow to 4Kids and probably kicked off their financial problems as well, but I don't think that they'd still be around now if they had Pokemon. It would have most likely helped them out, but I don't think that the company could have survived just through Pokemon.

Besides all that, I still have a hard time imagining TPCI not getting a hold of the license for that long. They were already managing the card game for awhile and would want to have more control over the anime instead of relying on a third party company. If 4Kids somehow kept the license until TV Tokyo sued them for the Yu-Gi-Oh! license, TPCI and/or the Japanese companies involved in the show probably would have attempted to get the license from them as well. Regardless of whether or not 4Kids did breach their contract, although they most likely did, that association would have ruined their reputations around other companies and they'd want to avoid dealing with them any further. I do remember some claims during the lawsuit where TPCI claimed that 4Kids made similar contract breaches when they had Pokemon. I'm not sure if that was true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

 

[Daenerys]

4Kids was doing well until it lost Pokémon. When you take that into account and the economy crashing is when they got into financial trouble. Pokémon was a huge cash cow for them. It would've probably saved them.

IIRC, Pokemon was consistently one of Kids' WB's highest rated cartoons, so I do think it was 4Kids' main cash cow together with Yu-Gi-Oh! about a dozen years ago.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

TV Tokyo is a producer of Pokemon anime too. They would sue 4Kids for both shows.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Yeah, that's a big reason as to why I don't think 4Kids would have had Pokemon long enough to get to XY. I think that the lawsuit happened in 2010 or 2011, which was around late DP or the start of BW if I recall correctly. While 4Kids did end up winning the lawsuit for the Yu-Gi-Oh! license, a big factor into that decision was probably how the Japanese companies involved broke the legal agreement that said 4Kids would handle things as usual until a decision was made by making their own Zexal dub. I don't know if the companies for Pokemon would attempt to make their own dub for Pokemon, but I don't know if they'd be in the same kind of desperate situation to take over Pokemon's dub. Outside of the Duel Monster series, none of the Yu-Gi-Oh! series have been successful outside of Japan. At least Pokemon had been airing pretty consistently on Kids' WB for years and it was more successful, so I don't know if they would have tried making their own Pokemon dub during the legal case.

Plus, I still can't really imagine TPCI not getting a hold of the license for that long considering what the company was made for. If 4Kids managed to keep their rights after season eight somehow, they might have tried to take them to court before TV Tokyo did over the Yu-Gi-Oh! license in order to take over, especially if those accusations that they broke their contract agreements over Pokemon were accurate too.

 

[The Power of Pika]

Yeah, that's a big reason as to why I don't think 4Kids would have had Pokemon long enough to get to XY. I think that the lawsuit happened in 2010 or 2011, which was around late DP or the start of BW if I recall correctly. While 4Kids did end up winning the lawsuit for the Yu-Gi-Oh! license, a big factor into that decision was probably how the Japanese companies involved broke the legal agreement that said 4Kids would handle things as usual until a decision was made by making their own Zexal dub. I don't know if the companies for Pokemon would attempt to make their own dub for Pokemon, but I don't know if they'd be in the same kind of desperate situation to take over Pokemon's dub. Outside of the Duel Monster series, none of the Yu-Gi-Oh! series have been successful outside of Japan. At least Pokemon had been airing pretty consistently on Kids' WB for years and it was more successful, so I don't know if they would have tried making their own Pokemon dub during the legal case.

Plus, I still can't really imagine TPCI not getting a hold of the license for that long considering what the company was made for. If 4Kids managed to keep their rights after season eight somehow, they might have tried to take them to court before TV Tokyo did over the Yu-Gi-Oh! license in order to take over, especially if those accusations that they broke their contract agreements over Pokemon were accurate too.

TPCI would have got it regardless I agree.

For 4kids to have kept the rights would mean they would have to renew the rights. It was because they agreed with TPCI to not renew said rights is why they lost pokemon.
The license with 4kids was set to finish at the end of 2005. Season 8 and movie 8 just happened to be the last series before the rights expiration.

Yeah it's true about TPCI and 4kids.
Just the information is all on a law site you need a account in.=/
So I'm only linking proving it did happen.
4Kids, 'Pokemon' Co. Get OK For $1M Contract Row Settlement - Law360

To explain in brief what happened. TPCI got $1 million out of it.
TPCI originally filed a claim for $6.2 million.
From what I can understand there was negotiation due to differences in the audits when compared. After a bit of time the $1 million was the deal the parties came up with which was probably a good thing for 4kids since they were at a point of selling off assets. That's from what i can understand anyway.

After a bit of review (seriously digging around the net to figure out when TPCI actually filed it) it sounds like that TPCI were actually the first to file a claim.
They filed it in 2010 and during the proceeding, 4kids got hit with the TV tokyo suing a year later in 2011. 4kids going into bankruptcy actually delayed the proceeding with TPCI which was picked up again later when 4kids was selling their assets.

So that's something to think about.

Actually yugioh did do well outside of Japan. Some of 4kids financial reports practically praise it for doing well both merchandise and ratings. It started to decline around 2005 according to 4kids financial reports which isn't too bad when you think about it.
When Yugioh was big apparently it helped offset Pokemon declining revenue due to the fad dying according to one report I read.

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

If the last few seasons of the 4Kids dub was any indication, they probably would have random paint edits over any Japanese food.

But there are episodes 4Kids didn't paint over the rice balls in the last few seasons, in fact, "The Scheme Team" and "Rough, Tough Jigglypuff" before they lost the rights kept the rice balls- this is a dumb thing to hold against their dub, imo, especially when you consider the fact TPCi also have done their own food cover-ups in later seasons, too (e.g. apples/bananas as berries/fruit, peas and carrots being masked under all veggies, etc.).

I think the writing would've been much better, as well, I frankly don't see how anyone can prefer what James Cathcart does when he himself has rewritten lots over the years himself for TPCi's dub, much of which Dogasu hasn't covered (and I think too many people judge the 4Kids dub's writing based off of just Kanto or one joke here and there, the writing is frankly one thing I saw improve from them over the years).

 

[Hidden Mew]

But there are episodes 4Kids didn't paint over the rice balls in the last few seasons, in fact, "The Scheme Team" and "Rough, Tough Jigglypuff" before they lost the rights kept the rice balls- this is a dumb thing to hold against their dub, imo, especially when you consider the fact TPCi also have done their own food cover-ups in later seasons, too (e.g. apples/bananas as berries/fruit, peas and carrots being masked under all veggies, etc.).

I don't see how TPCI calling peas and carrots veggies is akin to 4Kids' paint edits over food. Sure, there were episodes where they didn't paint over the food during the last season, but that just made the times they did paint over them to turn rice balls into sandwiches all the weirder. That's why people still remember the paint edits 4Kids made more than what TPCI has done. It was usually more noticeable and inconsistent. Granted, they weren't too consistent on what to call rice balls for the first few seasons anyway, so that lack of consistency is oddly fitting too. At least calling peas and carrots veggies is more accurate than calling rice balls donuts or making them into sandwiches. Those are veggies, so what's the problem with just calling them that? Same thing with referring to apples and bananas as fruits. Calling them berries is more weird than anything else, but since I think that only happened in one episode, I'd just write it off as a weird script mistake.

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

I don't see how TPCI calling peas and carrots veggies is akin to 4Kids' paint edits over food. Sure, there were episodes where they didn't paint over the food during the last season, but that just made the times they did paint over them to turn rice balls into sandwiches all the weirder. That's why people still remember the paint edits 4Kids made more than what TPCI has done. It was usually more noticeable and inconsistent. Granted, they weren't too consistent on what to call rice balls for the first few seasons anyway, so that lack of consistency is oddly fitting too. At least calling peas and carrots veggies is more accurate than calling rice balls donuts or making them into sandwiches. Those are veggies, so what's the problem with just calling them that? Same thing with referring to apples and bananas as fruits. Calling them berries is more weird than anything else, but since I think that only happened in one episode, I'd just write it off as a weird script mistake.

But the berries thing didn't just happen in only one episode, TPCi called them berries in "So You're Having a Bad Day" as well numerous times beyond that late BW dub episode with Iris. Furthermore, 4Kids did call rice balls rice balls correctly at least 4 times in their dub (Pokemon Paparazzi, Gone Corphishin', A Corphish out of Water, and A Tail with a Twist as examples) so calling them donuts or making sandwiches at times is excusable to a degree with that in mind.

And I'm sorry, but just because 4Kids made more paint edits, that doesn't excuse TPCi making their own paint edits or vocal edits either, which they are guilty of that just like 4Kids was. Heck, if we're talking edits, TPCi censored Meowth drowing in Sun & Moon this saga, 4Kids kept him drowning back in Kanto, the current dub has its fair share of editing in the later seasons too.

 

[Hidden Mew]

But the berries thing didn't just happen in only one episode, TPCi called them berries in "So You're Having a Bad Day" as well numerous times beyond that late BW dub episode with Iris. Furthermore, 4Kids did call rice balls rice balls correctly at least 4 times in their dub (Pokemon Paparazzi, Gone Corphishin', A Corphish out of Water, and A Tail with a Twist as examples) so calling them donuts or making sandwiches at times is excusable to a degree with that in mind.

I could only remember one episode from BW calling fruits berries, so that was a mistake on my part. 4Kids did refer to them as rice balls, but I don't think that makes calling them donuts or painting them over the be sandwiches to be okay. Admittedly, I don't think it bothers me that much compared to other fans, but it's just like annoyingly inconsistent. If they had no problem calling them rice balls at least a couple of times during Advanced, then why bother painting over them to make them sandwhiches in Advanced Challenged and Advanced Battle? To be fair, this kind of thing wasn't exclusive to just their work on Pokemon. They had inconsistent edits through most of their dubs from what I saw and remember.

And I'm sorry, but just because 4Kids made more paint edits, that doesn't excuse TPCi making their own paint edits or vocal edits either, which they are guilty of that just like 4Kids was. Heck, if we're talking edits, TPCi censored Meowth drowing in Sun & Moon this saga, 4Kids kept him drowning back in Kanto, the current dub has its fair share of editing in the later seasons too.

I never said that all of TPCI's edit are completely okay or that they haven't made any kind of edits. I just thought that the whole fruits/veggies complaint was weird compared to turning rice balls into sandwiches for multiple reasons. Although, I do think that censoring Meowth's drowning in SM was reasonable. It really did look like Meowth was dead and in a position that drowning victims can be. I know that was part of the joke because he came back to life, but I can see why they thought something like that wouldn't work for the U.S censors. At least when that gag happened in the first episode, Meowth's body wasn't in a position that looked like he was really dead. Granted, they still could have done a better job with making the edit less jarring and abrupt, but I can see why that scene wouldn't have made it into the dub.

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

I could only remember one episode from BW calling fruits berries, so that was a mistake on my part. 4Kids did refer to them as rice balls, but I don't think that makes calling them donuts or painting them over the be sandwiches to be okay. Admittedly, I don't think it bothers me that much compared to other fans, but it's just like annoyingly inconsistent. If they had no problem calling them rice balls at least a couple of times during Advanced, then why bother painting over them to make them sandwhiches in Advanced Challenged and Advanced Battle? To be fair, this kind of thing wasn't exclusive to just their work on Pokemon. They had inconsistent edits through most of their dubs from what I saw and remember.

I never said that all of TPCI's edit are completely okay or that they haven't made any kind of edits. I just thought that the whole fruits/veggies complaint was weird compared to turning rice balls into sandwiches for multiple reasons. Although, I do think that censoring Meowth's drowning in SM was reasonable. It really did look like Meowth was dead and in a position that drowning victims can be. I know that was part of the joke because he came back to life, but I can see why they thought something like that wouldn't work for the U.S censors. At least when that gag happened in the first episode, Meowth's body wasn't in a position that looked like he was really dead. Granted, they still could have done a better job with making the edit less jarring and abrupt, but I can see why that scene wouldn't have made it into the dub.

At least 4Kids still kept the rice balls intact in the last few Advanced Battle episodes for the early eps. of Battle Frontier post-painted sandwiches, though, and yes I can agree on inconsistent editing for them in their dubs, but regardless I am grateful the sub sandwiches were only in Judgment Day, Less is Morrison, and I think one more episode- I'm not saying it was okay to do it, but I am saying they did somewhat rectify that later.

I think it's weird to censor or replace anything in the Series to be honest, both dubs are guilty of that, and I won't say one edit is more or less reasonable than another because in the end, I feel an edit is an edit regardless of how or why it is done. Ash's glitter vomiting was also censored in Sun & Moon recently as well, for example: what I'm trying to say is both dubs have done edits that made me cringe, it's not just specific to 4Kids.