Spoilers What is Zinnia referencing in this line in ORAS?

[Esserise]

So, today I was tracing back over some old bits of story stuff, and I was reading through some of Zinnia's dialogue. In it, I came across this line, which I hadn't really thought about before. It's from right at the end of her long exposition scene about Hoenn's history. She says:

> "That was when the Draconids constructed their great tower, to hold the rainbow stone that had granted Rayquaza its power, and to try to get a little bit closer to Rayquaza in the heavens above. To record the history of their trials and the great feats of mighty Rayquaza for all to know, they left behind the murals you see here. A giant tower... And paintings of the past... You know, I feel like I've seen something like that recently. Heh. But now, I suppose it's time for the last chapter in our tale."

That bit right there is what caught my interest. I don't remember it being discussed in any of the threads that popped up around the time of release (I did skim over some of them just to check, too). But what is she talking about here? My first instinct is that it's a meta-reference to the Tower of Mastery, which serves a function similar the Sky Pillar. But there weren't any "paintings of the past" in XY as far as I can recall (well, not aside from the Lumiose Museum, at least, but I doubt she would be referring to that, as it is pretty minor).

Which could mean that the "paintings of the past" refer to the images in Granite Cave, but I don't know. If the "giant tower" is supposed to be a meta-reference to the ToM (and it would have to be a meta-reference, since the ToM has no relevance to the plot of ORAS and would therefore have no meaning to Brendan/May - we the audience are the only ones who would draw any significance there; plus, the sly "heh" to herself seems a bit "self-aware"), then it feels strange for the "paintings of the past" to then be a reference to something that is actually very relevant to the plot at hand (Brendan/May first battled Zinnia in the Granite Cave's painting room very recently). And conversely, there aren't really any other noteworthy "giant towers" in the Hoenn region that come to mind.

BW had a giant tower (Dragonspiral Tower), but like XY, they also lacked any immediately obvious "paintings of the past."

Anyone have any other thoughts? Maybe this is actually something really simple that has just gone completely over my head?

 

[Lufenium]

I never really noticed this before, honestly.

As for what she's referencing, who knows? The Tower of Mastery & Granite Cave do seem like the most likely options. It could be the Dragonspiral Tower, as X/Y had the statues of Reshiram & Zekrom in the gardens of Parfum Palace, and Zinnia has a solid connection to dragon type Pokemon.
Also the possibility that she could have been making an allusion to something from Gen VII? Wouldn't be the first time GF have alluded to the future this gen.

 

[Kallyle]

I don't Zinnia is referencing one location, but rather two separate ones: the Sky Pillar ("A giant tower" built to "try to get a little bit close or Rayquaza in the heavens above") and the Granite Cave image ("And paintings of the past"). When you think about it, those two locations seem to make the most sense given what we know about them.

 

[Esserise]

Also the possibility that she could have been making an allusion to something from Gen VII? Wouldn't be the first time GF have alluded to the future this gen.

Interesting possibility. Suppose I'll have to keep my eyes open for any towers of paintings while playing SM.

I don't Zinnia is referencing one location, but rather two separate ones: the Sky Pillar ("A giant tower" built to "try to get a little bit close or Rayquaza in the heavens above") and the Granite Cave image ("And paintings of the past"). When you think about it, those two locations seem to make the most sense given what we know about them.

I don't think she is referring to one location either.

However, I don't think it makes sense for her to refer to the Sky Pillar. She says that she feels like she has seen a giant tower recently, but why would she be talking about the Sky Pillar? They are literally standing on it at that very moment, so while "I've seen it recently" would be technically true, it would also be an utterly bizarre thing to say, because of course she has seen it recently - she's standing right on top of it.

Moreover, there are these bits:

> That was when the Draconids constructed their great tower

> they left behind the murals you see here

This, I think, makes it impossible for her to be referring to the Sky Pillar. Because if her intention is instead to tell the story vaguely, and then to say, "heyyyya'know, that tower in the story sounds awfully like the one we're standing on, hint-hint," to sort of obliquely imply to Brendan/May that the Sky Pillar is the one in the story, then she wouldn't have first said "they left behind the murals that you see here." Because that outright proves that the Sky Pillar is the great tower covered in murals in the story - they're looking right at those murals, so obviously it's the mural-covered tower in the story.

 

[Silktree]

My bet is that a mistranslation is involved, but she might have been referring to the Embedded Tower.

 

[King Robert]

My bet is that a mistranslation is involved, but she might have been referring to the Embedded Tower.

I agree for the mistranslation. Much like how people think that Ghetsis wanted to kill the player (the fact that he had icicles aimed at you like weapons didn't help), but he wanted to freeze you solid instead in both versions, rather than just English.

 

[Spook Rooster]

I agree for the mistranslation. Much like how people think that Ghetsis wanted to kill the player (the fact that he had icicles aimed at you like weapons didn't help), but he wanted to freeze you solid instead in both versions, rather than just English.

sounds like the 4kids dub of Yugioh where saw blades cutting into you would send you to the Shadow Realm. or in a dub of dragon ball z where nobody dies - they just get sent to another dimension.

 

[Esserise]

but he wanted to freeze you solid instead in both versions

Well in fairness, being frozen by "ultracold" unbreakable ice could be rather fatal.

 

[Boss1708]

A giant Tower, seen recently. The most recently seen giant Tower is Tower of Mastery.

Paintings of the past, seen recently. Obviously Granite Cave, the room with Groudon/Kyogre paintings.

The former is a nod to Mega Evolution (Tower of Mastery is entirely dedicated to ME, just like Sky Pillar).

The latter is a nod to Primal Reversion, which is the very reason why Rayquaza had to Mega Evolve in the first place: to stop the Primal Reversion formes of Groudon and Kyogre.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

I'm pretty sure she's talking about the Sky Pillar and the Granite Cave. The Tower of Mastery has nothing to do with Rayquaza. She mentions the tower being built for Rayquaza. The Tower of Mastery does not serve that purpose.

 

[Esserise]

I'm pretty sure she's talking about the Sky Pillar and the Granite Cave. The Tower of Mastery has nothing to do with Rayquaza. She mentions the tower being built for Rayquaza. The Tower of Mastery does not serve that purpose.

Yes, she does mention the tower being built for Rayquaza, but see my post up above for why it makes no sense for her to be referring to the Sky Pillar as a seemingly separate "giant tower."

Additionally, the Sky Pillar and the Tower of Mastery were both built with the purpose of housing a special stone. Which is why I suggested that it could be a meta-reference to the Tower of Mastery, because this scene is set on our second stone-housing, Mega-related giant tower in a row.

 

[Guzma]

I never even noticed. I just thought she was referring to the Sky Pillar, since there were murals in the Sky Pillar. Of course, judging by her pre-battle facial expressions, Zinnia isn't exactly the sanest person...

Well in fairness, being frozen by "ultracold" unbreakable ice could be rather fatal.

My interpretation is that he's freezing you alive so you're alive long enough to see him win, and then he just leaves you there to die of asphyxiation and/or hypothermia. He's still killing you, but he's too sadistic to do it instantly. He wants you to suffer while you die.

 

[Esserise]

I never even noticed. I just thought she was referring to the Sky Pillar, since there were murals in the Sky Pillar. Of course, judging by her pre-battle facial expressions, Zinnia isn't exactly the sanest person...

I mean, there is no doubt that she is both cryptic and slightly unhinged. But if she was referring to the Sky Pillar, that would be like if I were to say right now, "Huh, a thread talking about something cryptic that Zinnia said, I feel like I've seen that somewhere recently" and meant it to be in reference to... the very thread that I posted that statement in.

Which is why I think it has to be a reference to something else; possibly as a meta-reference to the recently-seen-by-players Tower of Mastery, because it is also a tall tower that we have to ascend in order to battle a certain successor who knows secrets about Mega Evolution. The Embedded Tower could also be a candidate, I suppose, although that would be a rather dated reference.

But then I thought, well, why would one half of the sentence be a meta-reference to XY, while the other half actually has some relevance to the current in-game storyline (if it is referring to the Granite Cave paintings)? If we follow that logic through, then the closest match that I can seem to find is the painting of AZ in the Lumiose Museum. Which I guess could be it, since it (liberally) depicts the key event in Kalos's past, and does receive a bit of narrative fanfare during the Looker Bureau storyline... I just kinda figured that whatever she was referring to would be something more important.

My interpretation is that he's freezing you alive so you're alive long enough to see him win, and then he just leaves you there to die of asphyxiation and/or hypothermia. He's still killing you, but he's too sadistic to do it instantly. He wants you to suffer while you die.

Yeah, that definitely sounds like him.

Although personally, I always got the sense that people were putting a little too much literal emphasis on his statement. Those icicles did not look friendly. I kinda think that he was just mocking your intended fate in a macabre tone; fully expecting to have Kyurem impale you and freeze your body to the ground with the icicles, which would leave your corpse there to "observe" his rise to power in a symbolic sort of way. (Of course, even then, it would still take a little bit for your body to bleed out, so I guess there would still be time to literally observe it, too.)

 

[Guzma]

Yeah, that definitely sounds like him.

Although personally, I always got the sense that people were putting a little too much literal emphasis on his statement. Those icicles did not look friendly. I kinda think that he was just mocking your intended fate in a macabre tone; fully expecting to have Kyurem impale you and freeze your body to the ground with the icicles, which would leave your corpse there to "observe" his rise to power in a symbolic sort of way. (Of course, even then, it would still take a little bit for your body to bleed out, so I guess there would still be time to literally observe it, too.)

Yeah, that sounds like the kind of "joke" Ghetsis would make.