What Tier will They be in? #3

[Mr.Munchlax]

Today it is three Pokemon. I'll call them the good, the bad, and the ugly. We've got Sazandura, Shiftry, and Mamabou. Also, a revote on Charizard.
Sazandura-U
Shiftry-UU
Mamabou-UU
Charizard-OU

Results so far:
Blaziken-OU
Typhlosion-UU
Infernape-BL
Enbuu-NU
Garchomp-U
Doryuzzu-U
Salamence-OU
Dragonite-OU

 

[Angad]

Sazandora is OU, Shiftry is UU, Mamabou is BL, Charizard is going to be UU - BL

 

[Ino-Chan]

Charizard is probably BL material, as is Mamabou.

Not sure on Shiftry, and Sazandora isn't Ubers material

 

[SharKing]

Sazandora: Why the hell would Sazandora be Uber!? It has a good Special Attack, a usable Speed, and STAB Draco Meteor, but that alone isn't nearly enough to constitute a ban. Sazandora lacks the most common Uber factor: setup. Its only setup move is Cheer Up, and even if it gets +6 in Attack and Sp. Attack (not likely), its Speed won't be goin' up anytime soon, and believe, base 98 is beatable.

Shiftry: It didn't really change at all, aside from the boost to Growth. If sun is extremely common in the NU tier, it might get sent to UU, but otherwise, it ain't movin'.

Mamanbou: With its good defensive stats and support movepool, and the fact that it passes major Wishes, it can be a very useful "bulky water" in UU.

 

[Angad]

Sazandora: Why the hell would Sazandora be Uber!? It has a good Special Attack, a usable Speed, and STAB Draco Meteor, but that alone isn't nearly enough to constitute a ban. Sazandora lacks the most common Uber factor: setup. Its only setup move is Cheer Up, and even if it gets +6 in Attack and Sp. Attack (not likely), its Speed won't be goin' up anytime soon, and believe, base 98 is beatable.

The most common Factor for pokemon becoming Uber is Speed, not set-up.

 

[sqwat500]

charizard-BL
shiftry-UU
Sazandorra-OU
Mamanbou-UU

 

[SharKing]

@CRACKADACTYL: Quite often, the speed either comes with setup or requires setup in other stats to be effectively used.

 

[Angad]

@CRACKADACTYL: Quite often, the speed either comes with setup or requires setup in other stats to be effectively used.

I never denied that, it's just that speed is actually the most common factor for moving a pokemon from OU to Ubers.

 

[SharKing]

Yeah, maybe I jumped the gun on the setup matter. After all, Doryuuzu's brokenness is centered around Speed.

Still, Sazandora's nowhere near Uber in the Speed department. I just want to make this clear to the OP: Sazandora will not be Uber.

 

[Snoozle]

Sazandora - OU
Shiftry - NU/UU
Mamanbou - UU
Charizard - UU/BL

 

[coolking503]

Snoozle has it right.
Sazandora - OU
Shiftry - NU
Mamanbou - UU
Charizard - UU
__________________

 

[Thundagere]

Sazandora: OU. It may not be Uber material, but really, it has Cheer Up and after one boost, that awesome Special Attack will handle the rest. It may not match up to something like Rayquaza, but it's pretty awesome. I can see it working well in a Special Attack team with Ulgamoth. The only weakness of Sazandora's that Ulgamoth doesn't cover is Dragon! I mean, Sazandora can come in, bait a Fighting type move or ice type move, and switch to Ulgamoth to take the hit then butterfly Dance. After that, Fire Dance (I think that's what it's called) to take out whatever they have and raise your special attack again, then go for a full sweep. That combo will be awesome.

Shiftry: NU, really. Not much more to say, except...wicked design.

Mamanbou: UU as a wall, maybe NU if something else pops up.
Zard. This all depends on where Nintales is placed. I'm changing my previous vote to slightly BL at most. If Ninetales is OU, where Earthquake is prevalent, I don't think Zard will survive long.

 

[Rakarei]

Dora's going OU. Good special attack to hurt things, decent bulk, and good STAB types are nice. It's gets speed trolled so hard though, so no U.

Shrifty might do well in the sun, UU.

All the hype around solar power Charizard isn't warranted, it's not that great and gets killed by rocks, which still exist btw. BL at best.

Mamabou: Is this the pringles guy?

 

[League]

Sazandora: Why the hell would Sazandora be Uber!? It has a good Special Attack, a usable Speed, and STAB Draco Meteor, but that alone isn't nearly enough to constitute a ban. Sazandora lacks the most common Uber factor: setup. Its only setup move is Cheer Up, and even if it gets +6 in Attack and Sp. Attack (not likely), its Speed won't be goin' up anytime soon, and believe, base 98 is beatable.

Mamanbou: With its good defensive stats and support movepool, and the fact that it passes major Wishes, it can be a very useful "bulky water" in UU.

Sazandora OU and Mamanbou UU, along these lines. Shiftry--beats me.

 

[Angad]

Mamabou: Is this the pringles guy?

That's the Jellyfish Ghost. Mamabou is the pokemon that looks like an evo of luvdisc.

 

[WatcherMark]

Sazandora - OU

Pros:
- Sazandora gets U-Turn (a rarity for a Dragon), which is excellent for scouting.
- Special Attack is high, meaning Draco Meteor will knock out anything that doesn't resist it. If you don't want the stat drop, then Dragon Pulse will still pack a decent punch.
- Despite it's appearance, Sazandora isn't part flying meaning Stealth Rock damage can be remedied with Leftovers. But Sazandora does gets Levitate as an ability, so you won't have to worry about Earthquake
- As expected for a three-headed Pokemon, Sazandora gets Tri Attack. As well as getting in a decent hit, you can also inflict status.
- Sazandora gets Cheer Up as a Level move, so you can push it's huge Special Attack (as well as a decent Attack stat if you're planning to run Outrage) even higher.
- You can use either Earthquake, or breed Earth Power onto it depending on what kind of set you're planning to use.
- Park Dark typing make Sazandora an good choice to use against Psychic-types. Also, you couldn't choose a better Pokemon to take out Wobbuffet due to the high special attack and immunity to Mirror Coat. Basically, you'll either force it out, or take it out.

Cons:
- Speed and HP, while still respectable, leave Sazandora open to revenge killers and Choice users.
- No Dream World ability so Levitate is all you're getting (but it's a decent ability anyway).

Charizard - BL

- Charizard gets Solar Power from the Dream World, increasing it's already high special attack. With that, you can take out Water-types with SolarBeam (which, thanks to SolarPower, will have the equivalent of a STAB Boost).
- As in Generation IV, Charizard gets some excellent moves that rely on Special Attack (Air Slash, Heat Wave etc.)
- Charizard also gets Purgatory, the Fire-type version of DynamicPunch. If you're willing to chance with 50% accuracy, then the high special attack combined with the certainly of a burn then this will pack a hell of a punch.
- Charizard has good speed, and with a couple of Dragon Dances it'll outrun any non-priority move.
- Access to Dragon attacks make it a great counter to Sazandora.
- As before, Charizard has an immunity to Toxic Spikes.
- Stealth Rock will probably be used far less often due to losing TM status, with the majority of the Pokemon that have access to it don't usually make it to competitive play so Charizard should easier to switch in...

Cons:
- ...but, having said that, losing 50% of your HP can be crippling. Pokemon with it will doubtlessly be brought forward from Gen. IV and it can be bred onto Skarmory so it'll still get some use. Bascially, to ensure Charizard's safety, bring a spinner.
- Solar Power means that Charizard would need one of it's partners to know Sunny Day, since you really shouldn't waste a moveslot on it. Combined with the steady draining of HP means that, amazingly, Blaze might be preferred.
- The introduction of Freefall means that, if it gets used against Charizard, leave it open to super-effective Ground attacks as well as resulting in instant poisoning from Toxic Spikes.

 

[Angad]

Sazandora - OU

Pros:
- Sazandora gets U-Turn (a rarity for a Dragon), which is excellent for scouting.
- Special Attack is high, meaning Draco Meteor will knock out anything that doesn't resist it. If you don't want the stat drop, then Dragon Pulse will still pack a decent punch.
- Despite it's appearance, Sazandora isn't part flying meaning Stealth Rock damage can be remedied with Leftovers. But Sazandora does gets Levitate as an ability, so you won't have to worry about Earthquake
- As expected for a three-headed Pokemon, Sazandora gets Tri Attack. As well as getting in a decent hit, you can also inflict status.
- Sazandora gets Cheer Up as a Level move, so you can push it's huge Special Attack (as well as a decent Attack stat if you're planning to run Outrage) even higher.
- You can use either Earthquake, or breed Earth Power onto it depending on what kind of set you're planning to use.
- Park Dark typing make Sazandora an good choice to use against Psychic-types. Also, you couldn't choose a better Pokemon to take out Wobbuffet due to the high special attack and immunity to Mirror Coat. Basically, you'll either force it out, or take it out.

Cons:
- Speed and HP, while still respectable, leave Sazandora open to revenge killers and Choice users.
- No Dream World ability so Levitate is all you're getting (but it's a decent ability anyway).

Charizard - BL

- Charizard gets Solar Power from the Dream World, increasing it's already high special attack. With that, you can take out Water-types with SolarBeam (which, thanks to SolarPower, will have the equivalent of a STAB Boost).
- As in Generation IV, Charizard gets some excellent moves that rely on Special Attack (Air Slash, Heat Wave etc.)
- Charizard also gets Purgatory, the Fire-type version of DynamicPunch. If you're willing to chance with 50% accuracy, then the high special attack combined with the certainly of a burn then this will pack a hell of a punch.
- Charizard has good speed, and with a couple of Dragon Dances it'll outrun any non-priority move.
- Access to Dragon attacks make it a great counter to Sazandora.
- As before, Charizard has an immunity to Toxic Spikes.
- Stealth Rock will probably be used far less often due to losing TM status, with the majority of the Pokemon that have access to it don't usually make it to competitive play so Charizard should easier to switch in...

Cons:
- ...but, having said that, losing 50% of your HP can be crippling. Pokemon with it will doubtlessly be brought forward from Gen. IV and it can be bred onto Skarmory so it'll still get some use. Bascially, to ensure Charizard's safety, bring a spinner.
- Solar Power means that Charizard would need one of it's partners to know Sunny Day, since you really shouldn't waste a moveslot on it. Combined with the steady draining of HP means that, amazingly, Blaze might be preferred.
- The introduction of Freefall means that, if it gets used against Charizard, leave it open to super-effective Ground attacks as well as resulting in instant poisoning from Toxic Spikes.

SP Charizard can't have Dragon Dance. And Freefall isn't the move you are thinking of. It's Knock Down, and it goes away after switching.

 

[Rakarei]

That's the Jellyfish Ghost. Mamabou is the pokemon that looks like an evo of luvdisc.

Oh thanks.

It looks like crap. No offenses, only bulky because of it's hp, barely any good moves. Wailord but worse (and we all thought that wasn't possible). NU.

 

[Angad]

Oh thanks.

It looks like crap. No offenses, only bulky because of it's hp, barely any good moves. Wailord but worse (and we all thought that wasn't possible). NU.

That's a bit excessive, it's still better than Wailord, considering it can pass HUGE wishes. It's like an inferior Vaporeon.

 

[Rakarei]

That is all it can do in single battles.