What Tier Will they be in? Day 1

[g3rgni]

I believe that Doryuuzu should be Uber. It's an extremely centralizing Pokemon with incredible sweeping potential. Anyone who doesn't run dedicated Doryuuzu checks on their team will end up getting swept by it at some point.

 

[Angad]

I believe that Doryuuzu should be Uber. It's an extremely centralizing Pokemon with incredible sweeping potential. Anyone who doesn't run dedicated Doryuuzu checks on their team will end up getting swept by it at some point.

I'd agree, but it does have quite a few counters.

 

[WatcherMark]

The only reason why Doryuzu wouldn't make Ubers for me would be it's pretty lackluster defences. To counter Doryuzu then all you need is a Pokemon with a STAB Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave or a pretty speedy Pokemon with a type advantage.

Also, if getting used in Single Battles, Doryuzu may need a turn to set up a Sandstorm which could allow the opponent to set in a super-effective hit. As said, with it's lower defence then wasting a turn to get set up could kill Doryuzu before it strikes. Also, Doryuzu hasn't been given access to Stone Edge meaning that if you want to run a Rock-type attack you'd need to go with Rock Slide.

Also, Doryuzu doesn't have much when it comes to coverage. In fact, the only coverage moves it gets (as well as Rock Slide) are X-Scissor and Shadow Claw (although to be honest, X-Scissor would be the smart choice for use against Grass-types).

But as I said earlier, Doryuzu has a hell of a lot more to recommend it than to detract from it. Resistance against eight types (including Dragon). immunity to Poison and Thunder Wave and it's amazing attack mean that it certainly belongs in OU at least. As for Uber... could go either way really.

 

[SharKing]

The only reason why Doryuzu wouldn't make Ubers for me would be it's pretty lackluster defences. To counter Doryuzu then all you need is a Pokemon with a STAB Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave or a pretty speedy Pokemon with a type advantage.

Trouble is, without Choice Band/Life Orb, Rohbushin and Breloom's STAB Mach Punches still won't one-hit it, surprisingly. And with Sand Paddle, practically nothing can outpace it.

Also, if getting used in Single Battles, Doryuzu may need a turn to set up a Sandstorm which could allow the opponent to set in a super-effective hit. As said, with it's lower defence then wasting a turn to get set up could kill Doryuzu before it strikes. Also, Doryuzu hasn't been given access to Stone Edge meaning that if you want to run a Rock-type attack you'd need to go with Rock Slide.

That's what Tyranitar and Hippowdon are there for. Doryuuzu itself doesn't need to waste a turn or a moveslot with Sandstorm when Sand Stream gives it infinite Sand to Paddle. And even though it only has Rock Slide for a good Rock move, it's good enough, especially with the flinch chance.

 

[WatcherMark]

Trouble is, without Choice Band/Life Orb, Rohbushin and Breloom's STAB Mach Punches still won't one-hit it, surprisingly. And with Sand Paddle, practically nothing can outpace it.


That's what Tyranitar and Hippowdon are there for. Doryuuzu itself doesn't need to waste a turn or a moveslot with Sandstorm when Sand Stream gives it infinite Sand to Paddle. And even though it only has Rock Slide for a good Rock move, it's good enough, especially with the flinch chance.

That's fair enough. To be honest, I think there's only one true counter to Doryuzu and that's a defensive Skarmory. It's immune to Earthquake, can survive Rock Slide even with the Sand Power boost and can Whirlwind Doryuzu out to give the opponent the chance to change the weather. Gliscor is another possible counter, but the only moves I could see doing any real damage are Ice or Fire Fang (given then can inflict status).

You know, the more I look at it, the more I can see Doryuzu going to Ubers. Regardless, any truly competitive team would need to carry Doryuzu and a dedicated Doryuzu counter.

 

[League]

Could Porygon2 work as a (semi-ish) counter? Should he survive and knock out Doryuuzu, he'd get the speed boost and Sand immunity. He is a general counter with Trace to all sorts of things already.

It's not really that he'd counter Doryuuzu, still being slower and all, but that'd he'd counter the team or, rather, make it pay a little for using the mole.

Anyway, I'm leaning for the mole, with both abilities, being made Uber, simply because I hate banning single combinations of pokemon/items/moves/abilities outright.

That's fair enough. To be honest, I think there's only one true counter to Doryuzu and that's a defensive Skarmory. It's immune to Earthquake, can survive Rock Slide even with the Sand Power boost and can Whirlwind Doryuzu out to give the opponent the chance to change the weather.

I don't think teams need to carry Doryuuzu--just be prepared to face it. Anyways, regarding defensive pokemon as counters, Uxie deserves a mention. Levitate, Yawn, Reflect, weather moves (these mostly going with Yawn for a weird combo). Cesselia has better HP and is a better wall in general. With Psycho Shift it could pass off a burn, again and again, accurately.

Ooh--Magnezone with Balloon--that could probably work, now.

 

[Lazyboy0337]

Anyways, regarding defensive pokemon as counters, Uxie deserves a mention. Levitate, Yawn, Reflect, weather moves (these mostly going with Yawn for a weird combo). Cesselia has better HP and is a better wall in general. With Psycho Shift it could pass off a burn, again and again, accurately.

Ooh--Magnezone with Balloon--that could probably work, now.

A lot of Doryuuzu carry X Scissor, so Uxie and Cresselia can't do much. Magezone could work, but it needs a safe switch in.

 

[SharKing]

If STAB Mach Punches from Rohbushin's higher Attack stat fail to KO, no doubt Zone's boostless, STABless HP Fire won't KO. Doryuuzu could just use Rock Slide on your Zone, destroying its Balloon 90% of the time and making it flinch 27% of the time. (Note that I factored in its 90% accuracy.) After that, it can easily Earthquake the no-longer-floating magnet to death.

There's also the fact that some Doryuuzu carry Brick Break.

 

[Cyber Jet]

Well the broken mole(doryuuzu) could be countered very easy with a adament breloom with techican and mach punch that has max attack EVs.

 

[SharKing]

Techniloom isn't legal yet, you know.

 

[Cyber Jet]

Techniloom isn't legal yet, you know.

Damn it

Well mabey slow and powerfull fighting/ground/water pokemon such as machamp,slowbro and slowking and a T-tar that has E.Q on a trick room team could counter it

 

[Johan-Tiberius]

honestly, dory may be uber imo

 

[Thundagere]

honestly, dory may be uber imo

I don't think it will, actually. It has great attack and decent HP, and i can make up Speed with Sand Paddle, but it's terrible defenses leave it open to a Choice Scarfer or a Priority user (Scizor, I'm looking at you). Add to that it's weak to Kyogre...and I don't think so.

 

[Johan-Tiberius]

I don't think it will, actually. It has great attack and decent HP, and i can make up Speed with Sand Paddle, but it's terrible defenses leave it open to a Choice Scarfer or a Priority user (Scizor, I'm looking at you). Add to that it's weak to Kyogre...and I don't think so.

idk dude it seems really broken though, you have a point though id be scared as balls seeing it in a sand storm team though

 

[g3rgni]

Damn it

Well mabey slow and powerfull fighting/ground/water pokemon such as machamp,slowbro and slowking and a T-tar that has E.Q on a trick room team could counter it

A counter is defined as a Pokemon that can safely switch in and force the opposing player to switch out. None of the Pokemon you listed are realistic Doryuuzu counters in Sandstorm. Gliscor and Hippowdon are reliable checks for some variants of Doryuuzu, but both of them can still lose to balloon-based sets.

I don't think it will, actually. It has great attack and decent HP, and i can make up Speed with Sand Paddle, but it's terrible defenses leave it open to a Choice Scarfer or a Priority user (Scizor, I'm looking at you). Add to that it's weak to Kyogre...and I don't think so.

Other than a weather-altering Pokemon, what Choice Scarf user effectively revenge kills +2, max speed Doryuuzu? How does Scizor deal any significant amount of damage to Doryuuzu with Bullet Punch? Why is Kyogre's ability to beat Doryuuzu even relevant?

 

[Lazyboy0337]

Dory isn't going to be Uber. Groudon and Kyogre take a shit on Ttar's sand. Dory also needs team support to keep priotity users away and sand up.

 

[Angad]

Dory isn't going to be Uber. Groudon and Kyogre take a shit on Ttar's sand. Dory also needs team support to keep priotity users away and sand up.

A Pokemon effects on a Higher Tier has nothing to do with their banning from the lower tier,

 

[g3rgni]

Dory isn't going to be Uber. Groudon and Kyogre take a shit on Ttar's sand. Dory also needs team support to keep priotity users away and sand up.

Crack is correct about the tiering process. A Pokemon's effectiveness in the Uber tier is irrelevant because the tier itself is simply a banlist for OU. I'd also like to mention that Doryuuzu currently performs quite well in OU despite the fact that Pokemon such as Drizzle Politoed and Drought Ninetails are present.

 

[Angad]

It's a lot like Salamence, it might be hard to see why they're uber after being used to Dory being in the Current Metagame, but it'll be apparent afterwards.

 

[NoirTHECHA]

honestly, dory may be uber imo

I don't know about uber for him, if you can get in a eq on him his done and he usually doesnt show up till late game for the fact that he needs his counters gone for set up. I havent encountered too many, but does he run choice scarf some times?? Anyway couldn't you counter him with landlos or something, or what about Something with priority?? Aqua jet or bullet punch(even though resisted) can hurt him case he is so frail. Also you could use a mischievous heart Sableye to W-o-W and cut his attack stat to make him less of a threat, or even a taunt to prevent swords dance, but I still am trying to get around this metagame so I could have all of this completely wrong. XD