• To keep up with the hype driven by Sword and Shield's release, we are taking applications for new moderators in our Current Events: Sword and Shield as well as Anime and Manga sections.

    For more information, see this thread.We hope you all consider joining our team!
  • We hope you're enjoying Sword and Shield so far! So that everyone can enjoy it and not be spoiled, please keep the all story spoilers and any images from the games in the appropriate sections or in spoiler tags until January 3rd.

    Since spoiler tags are not allowed in signatures, please do not put images from the games in your signature either. You can list the names of new Pokémon if you want to list your team in your signature.
  • AussieEevee continues his perilous adventures in Johto. Watch his HeartGold Nuzlocke here.

What was the Worst addition to the Games?

Requiem Raver
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
2,550
Reaction score
116
I think the Dream World was a good idea but executed poorly.

Seriously, a key part of the game (and until recently, the only way to get 'mons with hidden abilities) shouldn't be restricted to those with compatible Internet connections and of course, it's now permanently unavailable.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
2,436
I think the Dream World was a good idea but executed poorly.

Seriously, a key part of the game (and until recently, the only way to get 'mons with hidden abilities) shouldn't be restricted to those with compatible Internet connections and of course, it's now permanently unavailable.
But there's also the Dream Radar and Hidden Grottos that give HAs
 
Dieter
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
1,014
Reaction score
760
But there's also the Dream Radar and Hidden Grottos that give HAs
But they only offer a handful of Pokemon, and iirc Hidden Grottos don't provide Dream Balls. Plus, Dream Radar requires an additional game...

I don't think having the Dream World be an online service was a bad decision, but keeping a lot of things, such as berries and HA pokemon, exclusive too it severely hindered gameplay, especially now there's no support anymore
 
Geek of the Games
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
1,583
I know I'm gonna get flack for this, but, to me, the worst additions to the games were the Apricorn Balls. They were just way too specialized and technical for real use. On top of that, during their debut gen, nearly half of the lot were full of glitches, further hampering their usage. Only the Friend Ball had any sort of actually usable ability, but it's still not great overall. Yeah, sure, they're flashy and such, but I really didn't like them, as they weren't practical and very gimmicky. Plus it took nearly five gens later for them to actually get decent release animations, and that's half the fun of using the other models outside of the main three Balls (four if you count Safari Balls). So, for me, the Apricorn Balls were just way too impractical and hardly worth using over their normal counterparts.

EDIT: Forgot to mention something. The concept was sound and was rather interesting, but the execution and end choices were poor. Sure, they could have good catch rates, but the very narrow requirements to properly get those catch rates is what ruins them. If GF had just stepped back a bit, examined the concept more, and overhauled those Balls to more practical forms, then it would've been a good idea. But, instead, we got super-gimmicky items (even for Pokemon standards) that have very precise requirements to actually work properly, if at all.
 
Last edited:
Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
3,363
Reaction score
9,552
It's kind of hard to find any specialty Poke Ball that isn't niche, though, isn't it? With the basic three and the Quick/Timer balls, you hardly need anything else. The Dive and Net Balls, for example, only give a 3/3.5 rate, while the Quick Ball's 4/5x rate outclasses them without the type requirement.
 
Geek of the Games
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
1,583
It's kind of hard to find any specialty Poke Ball that isn't niche, though, isn't it? With the basic three and the Quick/Timer balls, you hardly need anything else. The Dive and Net Balls, for example, only give a 3/3.5 rate, while the Quick Ball's 4/5x rate outclasses them without the type requirement.
Perhaps, but at the same time, they don't have any extra condition tacked on. Using your examples, the Dive/Net Balls catch Water (and Bug in the latter case) Mons with a set catch rate without question (plus the Dive Ball's gimmick, which is more of a bonus feature at this point, required the Dive HM, which isn't in every game, so it got streamlined into a more optimal form after its debut gen). While the Lure Ball has the extra condition of requiring said Water Mon to be hooked by a Fishing Rod, and by a Fishing Rod only. Which means the Lure Ball is almost useless when catching Mons via Surf, Dive, or even just walking in the grass, which are more commonplace ways of finding/catching Mons.

So, with that, the Dive/Net Balls are more practical in that regard as they don't require the extra condition of first needing a rod to hook the Mon before chucking the ball at it. After all, not all Water Mons are found by fishing only, which limits the Lure Ball's power and usage, while the Dive/Net Ball possess more generic conditions, making them easier to use, thus making them more practical over their Apricorn cousin. Even if the Dive/Net Ball don't get the same mileage as the Quick/Timer Ball, due to those two having very simple conditions, they're still more practical than the Lure Ball, thus you can still get a larger amount of mileage out of them than their Apricorn relative.

Which is what I mean: the Apricorn Balls are too gimmicky for their own good, thus they can't be maximized without extra effort, while even some of the other gimmick Balls have more generic conditions and more fixed rates that permit them to be more practical than their Apricorn counterparts. Again, the concept was great, but poorly executed with the Apricorn Ball's conditions, thus making them more limited and impractical over their later gen counterparts, which have more generic and streamlined conditions. Which is why I feel the Apricorn Balls were one of the worst features added, as GF clearly didn't think their idea through completely. Again, the concept was very solid, but the execution and overall conditional needs to use is what cripples them to the point of being borderline useless without their very precise setup needed to use them properly. Enjoy my counterargument.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
3,363
Reaction score
9,552
But that was my point in comparing the Net and Dive Balls to the Quick Ball. Even though they don't require the extra condition of a fishing rod, they do require the extra condition of the Pokemon's type, which the Quick Ball doesn't require, and they offer a smaller boost than the Quick Ball does. Even though they get more mileage than the Lure Ball, there's still no reason to use them over a Quick Ball.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
6,071
Reaction score
8,300
I guess the reason why they have unusual/gimmicky conditions is because they wanted to experiment at the time. I mean, if we judge by the SpaceWorld demo, they might have been added late in development since they were not present there. That might also be the reason why later Poké Balls got easier conditions and the temporal removal of the Apricorn balls.
 
Young Battle Trainer
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
5,314
Reaction score
6,412
I guess the reason why they have unusual/gimmicky conditions is because they wanted to experiment at the time. I mean, if we judge by the SpaceWorld demo, they might have been added late in development since they were not present there. That might also be the reason why later Poké Balls got easier conditions and the temporal removal of the Apricorn balls.
This is likely, when you compare these:
Friend Ball: Makes caught Pokemon more friendly
Level Ball: Works better on low leveled Pokemon
Heavy Ball: Works better the heavier the Pokemon
Lure Ball: Works better when fishing
Love Ball: Works better on Pokemon of the opposite gender (was bugged, worked better on Pokemon of the same species and same gender as the one you're using, changed to opposite gender in HGSS)
Fast Ball: Works better on Pokemon likely to flee (was bugged, only applied increased catch rate to Magnemite, Grimer, and Tangela, was changed in HGSS to working better on faster Pokemon)
Moon Ball: Works better on Pokemon that evolve by Moon Stone (didn't work properly in GSC)

To these:
Repeat Ball: Works better on Pokemon that you already caught
Net Ball: Works better on Bug or Water type Pokemon
Nest Ball: Works better on low leveled Pokemon
Premier Ball: Just a recolored standard Poke Ball that you get for buying 10 or more standard Poke Balls at once.
Dive Ball: Works better when fishing, surfing, or diving (originally only worked when diving, changed once Diving no longer became a regular feature)
Luxury Ball: Makes caught Pokemon more friendly
Timer Ball: Gets progressively better the longer the battle lasts

And these:
Quick Ball: Works better when used at the start of a battle
Dusk Ball: Works better at night or in caves
Heal Ball: Recovers the caught Pokemon's HP and cures all status conditions
 
Geek of the Games
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
1,583
...I knew me saying that would earn me a lot of flack. So be it. I still feel that they are the most worthless additions to the games, as their gimmick levels are just absurd, even for Pokemon standards, but I'm getting tired of arguing about it. And, for the record, Tech, I would use a Net Ball over a Quick Ball to catch a Water or Bug Mon any day because of that flat, continuous catch rate makes it more practical than the one-shot Quick Ball, as the Quick Ball, despite a favorite of mine, has failed far too many times for me to be willing to put total, almost blind faith in it. While I always keep a supply of Quick Balls on-hand, I also keep a supply of other Balls, baring the useless Apricorn Balls and standard Poke Balls, for other needs. Plus, Net Balls are more common in stores than Quick Balls, and their "targets" are very common (Water is the most common type while Bug is the sixth most common), so their usefulness is still high. While I agree that Quick Balls are more commonly used over Net/Dive Balls, the latter are still just as useful because of them having a flat, continuous rate and a wide number of targets over a once-per-battle chance (which is usually more than enough to work, but it still fails just as often as it succeeds). So, while I'll relent to your Quick VS Net argument, my argument still stands in regards to the Apricorn Balls themselves, as they were the ones I was after, not anything else. If anything, you've only made me hate them more, as your argument further proved to me that later gen ball ideas are lightyears better over the Johto blunder balls.

If that is correct, if the Apricorn Balls were added late, then that would explain the poor choice of conditions, as it means they wouldn't have had enough time to iron out the pitfalls in the idea. Plus they ended up glitched anyway. Which makes me further believe that the Apricorn balls were a flawed prototype idea that failed miserably, hence the more streamlined conditions that later gen balls gained over their Johto cousins. Which makes me dislike them even further, as prototype or not, it was still poor decision making on their part, especially since those gimmicks never got better after their debut. And in some cases, like the Fast Ball, got worse. At least in the case of the Dive Ball, where its gimmick was related to the Dive HM, got fine-tuned to a more practical purpose after Dive's HM status kept changing. And it's not like the balls can't get fine-tuned over the gens, as balls like the Dive, Nest, and Dusk Balls all got tweaks that improved their power over the course of the series. The Apricorn Balls either remained untouched or became worse, which further fuels my dislike of them. Which is why I still feel they are the worst addition to the games, as prototype or not, they were an idea that would've been great, but ended up being terrible. At least later gens improved on the idea considerably, making the Johto Balls look and function even worse. By comparison, I would rather use a standard Poke Ball over them thanks to their bad gimmicks, and you know how much I hate that model due to its over-saturation in the franchise. So, in the end, my dislike of the Johto balls has only been magnified, making me firmly stand by the fact that they were the worst additions to the games by far.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
6,071
Reaction score
8,300
...I knew me saying that would earn me a lot of flack. So be it. I still feel that they are the most worthless additions to the games, as their gimmick levels are just absurd, even for Pokemon standards, but I'm getting tired of arguing about it. And, for the record, Tech, I would use a Net Ball over a Quick Ball to catch a Water or Bug Mon any day because of that flat, continuous catch rate makes it more practical than the one-shot Quick Ball, as the Quick Ball, despite a favorite of mine, has failed far too many times for me to be willing to put total, almost blind faith in it. While I always keep a supply of Quick Balls on-hand, I also keep a supply of other Balls, baring the useless Apricorn Balls and standard Poke Balls, for other needs. Plus, Net Balls are more common in stores than Quick Balls, and their "targets" are very common (Water is the most common type while Bug is the sixth most common), so their usefulness is still high. While I agree that Quick Balls are more commonly used over Net/Dive Balls, the latter are still just as useful because of them having a flat, continuous rate and a wide number of targets over a once-per-battle chance (which is usually more than enough to work, but it still fails just as often as it succeeds). So, while I'll relent to your Quick VS Net argument, my argument still stands in regards to the Apricorn Balls themselves, as they were the ones I was after, not anything else. If anything, you've only made me hate them more, as your argument further proved to me that later gen ball ideas are lightyears better over the Johto blunder balls.

If that is correct, if the Apricorn Balls were added late, then that would explain the poor choice of conditions, as it means they wouldn't have had enough time to iron out the pitfalls in the idea. Plus they ended up glitched anyway. Which makes me further believe that the Apricorn balls were a flawed prototype idea that failed miserably, hence the more streamlined conditions that later gen balls gained over their Johto cousins. Which makes me dislike them even further, as prototype or not, it was still poor decision making on their part, especially since those gimmicks never got better after their debut. And in some cases, like the Fast Ball, got worse. At least in the case of the Dive Ball, where its gimmick was related to the Dive HM, got fine-tuned to a more practical purpose after Dive's HM status kept changing. And it's not like the balls can't get fine-tuned over the gens, as balls like the Dive, Nest, and Dusk Balls all got tweaks that improved their power over the course of the series. The Apricorn Balls either remained untouched or became worse, which further fuels my dislike of them. Which is why I still feel they are the worst addition to the games, as prototype or not, they were an idea that would've been great, but ended up being terrible. At least later gens improved on the idea considerably, making the Johto Balls look and function even worse. By comparison, I would rather use a standard Poke Ball over them thanks to their bad gimmicks, and you know how much I hate that model due to its over-saturation in the franchise. So, in the end, my dislike of the Johto balls has only been magnified, making me firmly stand by the fact that they were the worst additions to the games by far.
I wasn't disagreeing with you. In fact, both Riley and I gave more arguments on your favor, since they look like they were not tested correctly.

EDIT: I guess it's more a case of "nice idea, bad execution".
 
Bringing the Thunder
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
4,948
Reaction score
2,892
Festival Plaza for sure. Pretty much everything about the execution of it was bad. Tying online play to it, needing it to get certain color clothes, making some of those colors version exclusives. It's like a downgrade in pretty much everything it offers.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
6,071
Reaction score
8,300
Festival Plaza for sure. Pretty much everything about the execution of it was bad. Tying online play to it, needing it to get certain color clothes, making some of those colors version exclusives. It's like a downgrade in pretty much everything it offers.
I'm still wondering why you can't dye clothes at the boutiques...
 
Geek of the Games
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
1,583
I wasn't disagreeing with you. In fact, both Riley and I gave more arguments on your favor, since they look like they were not tested correctly.

EDIT: I guess it's more a case of "nice idea, bad execution".
I actually wasn't disagreeing with you, either. Your argument further bolstered my negative feelings toward Apricorn Balls, so I was actually happy that you mentioned the demo and such, as those were details I wasn't aware of. That actually was something I wanted to know, and it gave me more reason to believe the whole "nice idea, bad execution" mentality, since that what the whole Apricorn balls reek of right now. Thus I was quite pleased to know that. Probably my words of choice could've been better, which I blame of poor sleep for nearly five nights in a row, as even my day-to-day speech patterns has been rather fractured as well lately... well... more fractured than normal anyway. So I wasn't upset with you (and, for the record, I was typing my response before you posted, but you posted just shortly after I finished the first paragraph, so I tried to incorporate what you said into my post, but, again, my word choices probably could've been better). So I was pretty much happy with your response, I just didn't relay that as well as I would've liked. But, yeah, the Apricorn balls definitely fall into the "nice idea, bad execution" department, which is a shame as because, when the Johto games revealed that little bit at the time, I was eager to try it out. Safe to say that feeling didn't last long when actual gameplay ability came into... well... play. So, yeah, I wasn't upset with you, as the second half of my post was adding onto your post. Rather, it helped me gain more insight about how the idea came to be and how it ended up so poorly utilized, despite being a rather nice idea overall that was, fortunately, salvaged in later gens. The Apricorn balls are still on my most hated game feature list because of their gimmicks, but at least I now know that they were probably a last-minute idea that wasn't well executed as a result.
 
Young Battle Trainer
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
5,314
Reaction score
6,412
Actually, the Fast Ball got better between gens. In Gen 2, it was supposed to work better on Pokemon that were likely to flee from battle (but, due to a typo, it only worked better on 3 Pokemon: Magnemite, Grimer, and Tangela). HGSS changed it so it now works better if the Pokemon you're trying to catch has a base speed of 100 or more.
 
Geek of the Games
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
2,669
Reaction score
1,583
Actually, the Fast Ball got better between gens. In Gen 2, it was supposed to work better on Pokemon that were likely to flee from battle (but, due to a typo, it only worked better on 3 Pokemon: Magnemite, Grimer, and Tangela). HGSS changed it so it now works better if the Pokemon you're trying to catch has a base speed of 100 or more.
However, that only applies to 13 Mons total outside of Bug Catching contest and Safari Zone, so it's still rather bad. If the glitch wasn't a issue back then, then the Fast Ball would've been more effective due to the whole "rare Pokemon runs" mentality the games had back then, but now its bonus only applies to 13 Mons in the game total. So, actually, if we remove the glitch issue and use the actual concept of the ball, it got worse. The Heavy Ball suffered a similar fate, as due to the weight limit now set at 451.3 lbs minimum instead of 225.5 to grant bonuses, anything under that (which most Mons fall into) gains penalties instead. The Heavy Ball only gained 4 new Mons it could catch over the originals without suffering a penalty, and those 4 Mons are generally post-game (as in after Red) catches, like Groudon. So, yeah, the Fast and Heavy Balls got worse, as their conditions became even more situational than before (though SM/USUM did return the Heavy Ball back to its original minimum weight, which did fix its issue for the most part).
 
Praise Euterpe
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
1,420
Reaction score
1,316
I don't know that it is the worst addition ever, but I really struggle to think of anything any more annoying than the "SOS" wild Pokemon feature in S/M and US/UM. To me the feature does make sense in some cases and allows for some neat little Easter eggs. The problem I have with it is that it is one of those features that just becomes incredibly irritating.

Not having a new Pokemon game to play this year I decided to get US and give Generation VII a second chance. I was enjoying it... Until the SOS battle feature began. Then it was like "Oh... This is why I hated Sun so much". Don't get me wrong, the place where it was introduced was completely appropriate. I have no problem with it being used in a battle like a Totem Pokemon battle. What I have an issue with is when I'm just trying to catch a random Pokemon and when I finally get its health down it goes into an infinite loop of summoning more Pokemon. It's like the feature is broken - a lot of the times the first summon doesn't work (and it's pretty funny to watch the far away animation of the wild Pokemon sitting there all alone), but when it does work it keeps on going and going and going. Granted, I haven't experienced that in US yet, but I haven't played it much. I just remember this being a HUGE pain in the rear in Sun.

(Another thing is that oftentimes my Pokemon getting double teamed now means that I have to use a potion or something when otherwise it would have just been simple. I guess some people might like that added difficulty, but to me it's one of those things I just don't need.)
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
3,363
Reaction score
9,552
Totally agree that it was annoying in SuMo, but they actually changed it up so that it wouldn't happen more than once without an Adrenaline Orb for USUM! That's why you haven't experienced it!
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
2,676
Reaction score
2,436
However, that only applies to 13 Mons total outside of Bug Catching contest and Safari Zone, so it's still rather bad. If the glitch wasn't a issue back then, then the Fast Ball would've been more effective due to the whole "rare Pokemon runs" mentality the games had back then, but now its bonus only applies to 13 Mons in the game total. So, actually, if we remove the glitch issue and use the actual concept of the ball, it got worse. The Heavy Ball suffered a similar fate, as due to the weight limit now set at 451.3 lbs minimum instead of 225.5 to grant bonuses, anything under that (which most Mons fall into) gains penalties instead. The Heavy Ball only gained 4 new Mons it could catch over the originals without suffering a penalty, and those 4 Mons are generally post-game (as in after Red) catches, like Groudon. So, yeah, the Fast and Heavy Balls got worse, as their conditions became even more situational than before (though SM/USUM did return the Heavy Ball back to its original minimum weight, which did fix its issue for the most part).
I would have liked it if it worked better on Abra. If you don't throw a Ball on it first turn, it will flee with Teleport.
 
Top