What will next month's information influx entail to the future?: Possibility of revea

[Habunake]

Pokémon A and Pokémon B are going to be revealed tomorrow

Seriously?

I was expecting to have to wait atleast a month...
Well, I'll keep an eye out then.

 

[Silktree]

Markario, I am glad that we see eye to eye on this.

I would like to reiterate my belief in the possibility of the new Generation IV installments' accommodating new Pokémon, as opposed to just new forms. Let's not forget that FireRed and LeafGreen unlocked the National Dex first and foremost, and only later did it become known that Deoxys had two new forms (technically, it was only later that Deoxys was even officially revealed). Interestingly, in Emerald's case, Speed Deoxys was advertised a great deal more than the previously-Colosseum-exclusive Pokémon.

Obviously, the problem with the notion of applying the same formula to this generation is that the National Dex is already complete in Diamond and Pearl alone, rendering any notable Pokémon additions in the remakes incompatible with the existent games. On the other hand, the DS' notably longer lifetime (compared to the GBA's) dictates that this generation should be given more extensions than its predecessor, rather than less.

For the sake of clarity, the theory will assume at this point that it is impossible for a patch to add a significant portion of data to Diamond and Pearl (or Battle Revolution, for that matter). Instead, it assumes that any new Pokémon would be treated in the same fashion as Generation III's Deoxys forms and Enigma Berry variations - their data would be specific to the new installments (like the Deoxys forms), they would not be able to be traded to Diamond/Pearl games (like the Enigma Berry variations, which could not be traded at all), but it would be possible to use them in wireless battles against a Diamond/Pearl player as they would appear in a placeholder form (both like the Deoxys forms and Enigma Berry variations).

Considering that it would currently appear the order between remakes and third game has been reversed for this generation, it is necessary to address whether the third game would be the first to offer access to new Pokémon. On the one hand, one would think that a plan that would essentially serve to prolong the DS' life and obviate demand for a new generation, would go wasted if commenced this year. On the other hand, shouldn't there be full comptability at least between games that are no more than a year apart - the third games and remakes in this (hypothetical) case?

The "classic" solution is that the data might exist in the third game, but would be unused until the the remakes were released. If that were to happen, it would be highly reminiscent of the data of the 184 Kanto/Johto Pokémon in Ruby and Sapphire, which was (legitimately) inaccessible for one year (and slightly over that in the case of most). Of course, Arceus sets an example as a Pokémon in Diamond and Pearl's data that has been unacknowledged for over a year and a half, and will very possibly uphold that status for 8 more months.

Hypothetically, if the avid fans (forum goers) found out there were some 50 new Pokémon in the third game's data, would the majority patiently wait to legitimately access that data, or would that be too much for which to ask? After all, there were far more inaccessible Pokémon in Ruby and Sapphire, but they were all familiar faces (with the exceptions of Jirachi and Deoxys, and by then the concept of event Pokémon wasn't new), and so the fans could make do with the accessible, new Pokémon and a group of old friends for a year's time. With this issue in mind, is the majority of avid fans even a significant segment of all players?

I am looking forward to a meaningful discussion on this possibility, which is not at all improbable.

 

[Zeta]

I'm really not sure if they would add 50 new Pokemon to the third game. For one thing, such a thing has never been done before. It would have been a snap to say, add Togepi and Togetic to Yellow or Kecleon and Volbeat to Crystal. However, the reason they don't is because it inevitably would cause frustration in the current generation's trading system as well as cool off hype for future generations. I think we will see Generation V within the next 3-4 years, regardless of what system they will be on. I could see GameFreak adding a handful of new Pokemon for a third game - say around 7 or 10.

But any more than that would just annoy people, I think, because there are already a great deal of products released (Battle Revolution, Pokemon Farm, Diamond and Pearl) that would be highly incompatible with a half-generation of Pokemon.

I think we will continue to see "Form" changes such as Giratina and possibly a new Shaymin form, but to expect GameFreak to start doing "Half Generations" seems like a bad idea because it blurs the line between each generation, introduces scores of incompatibility, and cools down overall hype for sales.

 

[Silktree]

For one thing, such a thing has never been done before. It would have been a snap to say, add Togepi and Togetic to Yellow or Kecleon and Volbeat to Crystal.

It hasn't been done before because up till now, it has never been a necessity (I use the word loosely). After plans for Pocket Monsters 2 had failed to come to fruition, the third Pokémon release for the Game Boy - Yellow - dispensed with the idea to expand the Pokédex. With a clear idea of when the true sequels would see release, and for which system, it really would have been somewhat a waste to introduce even one new Pokémon in Yellow.

Crystal was released quite soon after Gold and Silver, and with the Mobile Adapter features considered, it really had enough on its plate. In comparison to Yellow, Emerald was not released very long after Ruby and Sapphire, especially considering FireRed and LeafGreen were released in between. The Deoxys forms also served the purpose of elusive Pokémon better than Munchlax would have.

Under the assumption that Generation V will be kept for the next system, the third game will have to be followed by another installment, or interest in the franchise will fade; four years is too long a gap between Game Freak releases. It so happens that such an installment will be released as late into Generation IV as Yellow was into Generation I. Since it was seriously considered to expand the Pokédex in Yellow, the same should happen now. Moreover, the decision against doing so in Yellow was a result of the Game Boy Color's imminent release, and this is where the analogy ends.

I think we will see Generation V within the next 3-4 years, regardless of what system they will be on.

The choice of system makes all the difference in the world. If it were for the DS, an Autumn 2009 release date would be the latest that could be expected for it. After all, it only took three years to develop Ruby and Sapphire, which were developed for a then-new system. To counter this possibility, how is it that everything in the current generation is moving so slowly?

If it is for the successor to the DS, Satoru Iwata seems very adamant that it will mean a 2012 release date. A six-year span for Generation IV is a ridiculous amount of time for Game Freak to be conservative in their decision what to include in the next DS installments. It will simply be a completely different story to what we are used to seeing from past generations.

But any more than that would just annoy people, I think, because there are already a great deal of products released (Battle Revolution, Pokemon Farm, Diamond and Pearl) that would be highly incompatible with a half-generation of Pokemon.

Since Pokémon Farm is a WiiWare title, I dare say that it would be easy to update it with the new Pokémon's Mii-like models, and that is really all it would require. As for Diamond and Pearl, I have already shown that it should be possible to battle Diamond/Pearl players with the new Pokémon. Other than that, the inability to trade new Pokémon introduced in the remakes to games released almost three years prior, shouldn't warrant too many complaints. The main reason for that would lie in the existence of another Sinnoh-based game - the third game - and hopefully another Wii title by Genius Sonority, which is sorely needed either way.

I think we will continue to see "Form" changes such as Giratina and possibly a new Shaymin form, but to expect GameFreak to start doing "Half Generations" seems like a bad idea because it blurs the line between each generation, introduces scores of incompatibility, and cools down overall hype for sales.

As far as cooling down overall hype is concerned, I hope you were to referring to sales of the next generation. It should be indisputable that adding new Pokémon to any game is one of the best strategies to create hype and boost sales.

If to be quite honest, introducing the equivalent of half a generation in the latter installments of Generation IV would create far less a blur than would designing Generation V for the DS. It really boils down to Game Freak's having to meet Nintendo's new platform standards: If Nintendo has no intention of moving in the same direction as before, neither can they. They can't leave things be until 2012, forcing them to either launch the next generation within a reasonable time frame for the same system as its predecessor, or to extend Generation IV by fleshing out the remakes as much as possible - in part by adding a respectable quantity of Pokémon.

You've made it clear that you are in favor of the former option, but you haven't argued why that would do more good than harm. There is no doubt that Generation V would attract less attention if it shared the same specifications as its predecessor. Besides which, what would become of the successor to the DS? Perhaps it would accommodate later Generation V installments, but wouldn't the need to maintain compatibility with the DS versions - battle compatibility - restrict game features to a great extent? Wouldn't such a scheme fail to capitalize both on the new Pokémon generation and Nintendo handheld system?

 

[Zeta]

I'm in favor of Generation V on the DS because GameFreak has obviously not pushed the hardware limitations with Generation IV. It rarely ever does. Generation V on the DS might encourage them to actually put more work, at least in graphics and size, into a current generation of handheld. Other monster raising games, such as Dragon Quest Monsters Joker, have at least pushed the graphical limits of the system. While Dragon Quest Monsters Joker has only 150 monsters, a fraction of Pokemon, I would truly like to see a Pokemon installment with fully animated battle sprites, which GameFreak could do on the DS. I fail to see, with GameFreak's fairly conservative views on graphics or new features, what a DS II could add that the DS could not handle.

 

[Habunake]

I don't like the idea of adding 50 new Pokemon to Game 3 either.

Maybe adding an early preview Pokemon as like possibly a rental Pokemon in a area simmilar to Bonsly in XD to give a taste of it, but not fully catchable Pokemon.

 

[Zeta]

See, now that idea I like. With the third game having 3-7 rental Pokemon in the Battle Frontier from Generation V.

 

[Silktree]

I fail to see, with GameFreak's fairly conservative views on graphics or new features, what a DS II could add that the DS could not handle.

And I fail to see why the opportunity to tap into the DS' potential implies parting ways with the notion that a Pokémon generation is defined by its system. However far Diamond and Pearl may be from exhausting the DS' potential, it is very hard to imagine how Pokémon entries for the DS could so radically differ from them to the point of being entitled the next generation.

The DS features can be better utilized, a new Pokémon adventure can ensue, and even new Pokémon can be introduced - all within this generation. Like it or not, the Gold and Silver remakes are viable means for all of these to occur. What is more, they will not pose a threat to Pokémon's success on the DS' eventual successor.

 

[Zeta]

What is more, they will not pose a threat to Pokémon's success on the DS' eventual successor.

Why would V being on the DS and VI being on the DS II do so? If we are indeed four years away from seeing the DS II, couldn't they release Generation V in late 2009 and VI in 2012?

 

[Silktree]

Why would V being on the DS and VI being on the DS II do so? If we are indeed four years away from seeing the DS II, couldn't they release Generation V in late 2009 and VI in 2012?

They have given no impression that Generation IV is to proceed as Generation II did. The third game will only be announced next month and likely released around Diamond and Pearl's second anniverary; Crystal took half that time. Although this is one day too soon to tell for sure, the chances of seeing new Pokémon in the movie now appear to be very nil.

This should all be clear to anyone who is not hell-bent on the idea that remakes are a terrible option. We can already see that a full-fledged generation will not be launched next year, and launching it in 2010 for the DS at a time when the successor's development should make news, would hardly be a sound business decision.

 

[moa]

There are a few points that should be understood:

1) Pokémon A and Pokémon B are going to be revealed tomorrow. This is apparently a last-minute change, because if anyone had known it was going to be so early they would have dismissed the theory as soon as CoroCoro was released without an announcement. Even an alternate Shaymin form seems unlikely to be revealed out of the blue - as a toy item of all things.

is this for real???

 

[Zeta]

Could we perhaps see a Pokemon title as a hand held launch title for the first time ever? It would make sense, as Pokemon is basically the lifeblood of Nintendo's hand held systems, but it's never been done before. However, the timing would be perfect now, if instead of having to wait a year to a year and a half after the release of the DS 2, it might see release alongside the system itself sometime in 2011 or 2012.

Although this is one day too soon to tell for sure, the chances of seeing new Pokémon in the movie now appear to be very nil.

So Pokemon A and B are two different Shaymin forms or what? I find that unlikely.

 

[Argy]

is this for real???

No, he is just speculating.

 

[Habunake]

Huh? That sounds like Unown Lord is stating it as fact.

 

[Zeta]

He does that with everything he thinks, though. : p

 

[Silktree]

Argy said I was speculating about the chances of finding new Pokémon being nil, not about finding out Pokémon A and B's identities today. She provided the source for that one.

Could we perhaps see a Pokemon title as a hand held launch title for the first time ever? It would make sense, as Pokemon is basically the lifeblood of Nintendo's hand held systems, but it's never been done before. However, the timing would be perfect now, if instead of having to wait a year to a year and a half after the release of the DS 2, it might see release alongside the system itself sometime in 2011 or 2012.

I hope you can see that you just argued for Generation V to debut alongside the successor, which means that other games will fill our time with the DS.

 

[TTEchidna]

The problem, though, is that there's not much a successor to the DS could do other than have three screens or have both be touchscreens. Maybe add to the processing power and graphics, but that's not the innovation Nintendo has pledged through the current console generation.

I think that we should give it a bit more time before assuming Gen V is coming for DS2/3S/whatever it'll be. After all, Gold and Silver came out for the GB. Sure they had better graphics (okay, just color) when on a GBC, but so did Yellow. Gen II may have been the GBC generation, but you never needed one to play its games. Who cares that Crystal required GBC. Gold and Silver didn't. If anything, we'd have something like before only Gen V's third version couldn't communicate with the GBA games if played on a DS because it'd need a special memory expansion thingy like the browser has.

Gen IV may be set to last longer than Gen II or III, but judging from how far behind Ash is in the anime compared to previous regions means nothing much except that they don't want a filler arc. Remember, Gen II's anime series was the original series, just like Gen I. And so Orange Islands counts as its filler, too... as does... well, most of Johto.

So remember, Gen I and II were inseparable. Both were in the original series, both were for the Game Boy, heck, look at how much Johto Pokémon encroached upon Kanto. Ho-Oh was in the first episode! Not Mewtwo, the current generation's legendary, but Ho-Oh! And Kanto did the same in Johto with how Ash, Misty, and Brock came back together with the same team as when they left Kanto... only Misty had Poliwag. Ash kept Bulbasaur on his team until 50 episodes before Johto ended, too! Bulbasaur! A KANTO starter!

Though I suppose we can only wait and see for this revelation... You know what'd be hilarity? They're Unown. A and B.

 

[Silktree]

Still no news.

Maybe add to the processing power and graphics, but that's not the innovation Nintendo has pledged through the current console generation.

That is precisely why they are refusing to move onto a new generation before the demand and possibilities of new innovation have presented themselves. That in itself doesn't shed light on what Game Freak is going to do; launching a new generation for the DS isn't the only option, nor does it seem to be their chosen course of action.

I think that we should give it a bit more time before assuming Gen V is coming for DS2/3S/whatever it'll be. After all, Gold and Silver came out for the GB. Sure they had better graphics (okay, just color) when on a GBC, but so did Yellow. Gen II may have been the GBC generation, but you never needed one to play its games.

The Generation I games all had colored graphics when played on the Super Game Boy (or Stadium's Dodrio GB Tower), and non-Japanese Yellow versions were programmed to display those graphics on the Game Boy Color, as well (other versions, including Japanese Yellow, just used four-color shading when played on the Game Boy Color).

Gold and Silver came out for the Game Boy Color; one need not go any further than the boxart to deduce that. Even if the differences had been limited to the coloration, it would have been enough to warrant the distinction (have you ever played Gold and Silver on the Game Boy for a long time?). However, that isn't even the case: The entire Mystery Gift feature is exclusive to Game Boy Color play, utilizing the infrared port.

Who cares that Crystal required GBC. Gold and Silver didn't.

No, the correct question is: Who cares that you you could play Gold and Silver on the Game Boy? Most fans are oblivious of that trivia to this day.

Gen IV may be set to last longer than Gen II or III, but judging from how far behind Ash is in the anime compared to previous regions means nothing much except that they don't want a filler arc.

I didn't make a point of the rate of the anime's progression. Based on rate of progression alone, there is no way of determining if the writers will pursue a filler saga or move onto a new series straight away.

So remember, Gen I and II were inseparable. Both were in the original series, both were for the Game Boy, heck, look at how much Johto Pokémon encroached upon Kanto. Ho-Oh was in the first episode!

The suggestion that Generation V and Generation IV will have that level of proximity to one another, is for the time being entirely unfounded. We haven't seen new Pokémon in the anime yet; it is uncertain if we will even find ones in the upcoming movie, which is tradition that has applied even to Generation II and Generation III. Besides which, by being synonymous with the title "DP", Generation IV seems to leave no room for a successor generation to be part of its series.

 

[Zeta]

Besides which, by being synonymous with the title "DP", Generation IV seems to leave no room for a successor generation to be part of its series.

So they can't show Generation V Pokemon in the anime right now? Just how they couldn't show Munchlax, Buizel, and Bonsly in "Advanced Generation", which was synonymous with games in the Gameboy Advance?

 

[Habunake]

Still no news.

Well, the site says "around the 23rd" and it's still early on the 23rd in Japan irc.