• Snowy arrives in Motostoke and signs up to participate in the Gym Challenge. Watch here as Snowy encounters some rather noisy individuals in a hotel lobby.

What would your reaction be if Ash lost the Sinnoh league?

How would you feel if Ash lost the Sinnoh league


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I don't think he'll win and I would be surprised if he did
 
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I've watched nearly 600 episodes so the idea of watching through another generation and even hundreds of more episodes doesn't bother me. In fact, I kind of like that since I can always have some Pokemon episode to watch. Since there are a lot of arcs already, I can also watch them at different times so it doesn't get dull or old. Plus, watching an older saga again almost makes it feel like it's new again to me.

I voted for indifferent. I'm honestly not expecting Ash to win the Shinnoh League. That would be kind of cool if it happens, but I'm not betting on that either. As long as Ash beats Paul and possibly makes it to the Top Four instead of the Top Eight, then I'll be happy.

I'm also not watching the show to see Ash win a major region league. If that was my only reason for watching the show, I probably would have stopped ages ago. I love the show for what it is and I feel relaxed when I watch it.
I agree with you. :3 You said already anything, that I was going to say XD
 
XY
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I would have agreed with you if Ash would been able to beat at least 4 of Paul's Pokémon.
But then the eventual win wouldn't be nearly as exciting as it'll be after that huge lose

I swear i'm getting tired of people saying that, if your gonna try to conquere something in life you either go through it all or don't even try it,
WTF
One should do the best he can to achieve his goal
That's what Ash will do when he'll battle the E4
It's not like he know in advance he'll lose to Cynthia
Even if he did know that as a fact, he'd probably still battle for the challenge
Pokémon is suppoting the idea of giving it all and doing your best - but still know it's ok even if you lost

if he does challenge the sinnoh E4 (which personally I don't see happening) then he better beat all of them including cynthia.
I'd prefer a more gradual improvement and see him lose to Cynthia but then beat next gen's champion

hopefully it will make him realise that he needs to do more than just train new rookies all the time.
You're talking about a show that is all about:
1. Believing in your friends and know the power of friendship
2. Advertising (so they WILL have him use mainly/only the new Poké each gen)

And don't forget the writers play with Poké's strength as they want

logically reasonable
A cartoon for kids that teach the viewers about the power of friendship > logic
Poké was never supposed to be "logical"

nothing is for certain in this show
Of course I can be wrong, anything can happen
I just say what I think

he doesn't have much personality as a character anymore.
Sure he has personality, especially when Paul is around
I think "personality" isn't the word you wanted to use, I think you want Ash to change from the way he is now but I doubt there'll be any big changes
Especially since they want Ash to prove Paul wrong and you seem to want Ash to doubt himself after a lose to Paul - they'll never have Ash think about acting like Paul - exactly because he has personality and his personality is the complete opposite of Paul's

You know, when we met Wallace, he actually DID seem to stop his journey. Even Cynthia seemed to stop. I mean, if they didn't stop, why aren't they challenging Gyms in other regions? Instead, Cynthia seems to be in Title Defense constantly, and Wallace seems to have given up League training altogether.
We don't know how many Grand Festivals / League both of these won, we barely know anything about their past
So we can't really learn much from them
Also - they're much older than Ash is... and since the anime doesn't make them grow up, he'll stay a kid forever
AND let's not forget Ash really wants to travel... he even refused to be a brain for it
I doubt Ash will be happy to get stuck in a place as a Leader/Brain/Champion/whatever
He wants to travel

Dawn would end up having to leave the main cast
Keep dreaming, won't happen at least until gen 5 begin
And the fact they stick closer to the games this gen doesn't mean much, the games didn't provide much they can work with to fill the time so they'll have to make up something

Yeah, and we had hints that he would win the Hoenn League, and look what happened.
I didn't see any hint to that at all

Well, as soon as he's absolutely sure that he's absolutely mastered everything there is, and he is absoulutely sure that he's now a Pokemon Master afterwards, it's a given that he might retire.
And winning ONE league is not enough

Well, seeing how the Battle Frontier was implied to be of the same level as or even greater than the Elite 4, even if winning the league wasn't the same as beating Cynthia, beating the Battle Frontier sure is.
Just because someone beat X and X is supposedly "stronger than Y" that doesn't mean this person will 100% be able to beat Y
Battles have much more to them than this - and luck is also one of the factors
You can't know in advance who will win in a battle

Well, I wouldn't really say that. I'm pretty sure if he wasn't stupid, he'd actually see through Team Rocket's disguises when they are directed at him.

However, other than that, yeah, he's not stupid.
Weedle, me and others already explained to you about the TRio thing, let's not get into it again (especially one mostly everyone else in their world doesn't get it either, so you can't use it to prove Ash's brain level)

Compare AG/DP-Ash to Kanto-Ash
That's what I meant
As a beginner he was stupid... but now? not at all

May, I really objected to her reaction during the Kanto Grand Festival, since, you know, she DID cry over her loss.
Remember she finally beat Drew who was an important rival/friend for her and got into the semi-final so it's understandable

he never cried when Harrison beat him
I think both May and Dawn were shown as much more sensitive than Ash is

Having him suffer one real loss in a Pokemon Battle is not likely to change him.
He already began to doubt himself at least a little
Proved by the fact he bothered to stay and secretly watch Ash's rematch with Sho despite the fact ealier he just went away after Ash lost to Roark
The league battle (especially if it's the final) will have much more effect on Paul than a random battle
That's also another reason I believe (and want) Ash to win this league
If Ash not only beat Paul but also win the whole league, that will prove even better to Paul that Ash's way might be better than his one

Pikachu going from actually fighting and presumably beating Elite Four Pokemon to losing to random Gym Leaders.
It's no different than BF->Sinnoh
And there's nothing really wrong with it, fans just overexaggerate everything

Did Ash tell he wants to be Pokémon Master since Kanto? I honestly can't remember to hear the term Pokémon Master since then. Maybe writers even don't care for this term anymore.
Ash sometimes introduce himself with stating he aims to be a Pokémon Master
He said that when he introduced himself to Paul and when twerps+Angie talked when they played cards

Do you really want to wait till 2015?
I don't especially wait for this
I enjoy the whole show for what it is
 
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But then the eventual win wouldn't be nearly as exciting as it'll be after that huge lose
actually, this loss made things a lot less exciting. I mean, they already had Ash's Pikachu win against Regice ALL BY ITSELF, yet that loss against Ursaring basically made what Ash did throughout the entire career, especially Ash's win against Brandon, seem like it never happened.

WTF
One should do the best he can to achieve his goal
That's what Ash will do when he'll battle the E4
It's not like he know in advance he'll lose to Cynthia
Even if he did know that as a fact, he'd probably still battle for the challenge
Pokémon is suppoting the idea of giving it all and doing your best - but still know it's ok even if you lost
That, as well as the fact that they have never even revealed what exactly a Pokemon Master is since day one.

I'd prefer a more gradual improvement and see him lose to Cynthia but then beat next gen's champion
Will it really matter? He already beat Brandon (whom, btw, would be either slightly or far stronger than Cynthia in any case), so him losing against Cynthia would actually be unrealistic (By that, I mean even by the show's standpoint.)

You're talking about a show that is all about:
1. Believing in your friends and know the power of friendship
2. Advertising (so they WILL have him use mainly/only the new Poké each gen)

And don't forget the writers play with Poké's strength as they want
I'd buy that with Pikachu if they had Pikachu merely deliver the final blow on Regice rather than beat it outright. Seeing how he did beat Regice outright, the whole "playing with Poke's strengths" excuse isn't valid, since how Pikachu is being treated is far too unrealistic even FOR this show.

A cartoon for kids that teach the viewers about the power of friendship > logic
Poké was never supposed to be "logical"
I think he meant that it was illogical even by the show's standards.

We don't know how many Grand Festivals / League both of these won, we barely know anything about their past
So we can't really learn much from them
Also - they're much older than Ash is... and since the anime doesn't make them grow up, he'll stay a kid forever
AND let's not forget Ash really wants to travel... he even refused to be a brain for it
I doubt Ash will be happy to get stuck in a place as a Leader/Brain/Champion/whatever
He wants to travel
If they wanted to make absolute certain that the fanbase got it in their heads that the regional Champions are allowed to travel to new regions and face off against Gym Leaders, they would have had a brief line of dialogue confirming that. They didn't.

Besides, Misty wanted to travel as well, she didn't even want to be at the gym, but she was left with no other choice because of her sisters being unreliable, and that she has no other relative to turn to.

Keep dreaming, won't happen at least until gen 5 begin
And the fact they stick closer to the games this gen doesn't mean much, the games didn't provide much they can work with to fill the time so they'll have to make up something
I'm using common sense. Besides, they already had changed quite a few things that the show stood for during DP. They had Ash actually doing a Trade, despite his earlier statements about how he will never trade. They had an actual main protagonist release since either Lapras's release or Larvitar's release [depending on whether you count Larvitar as one of Ash's Pokemon], Heck, they even confirmed Pikachu's gender despite official claims that Pikachu's gender will never be revealed because they want the audience of all groups to connect to him. If they can change those aspects, what makes you think they'll actually have Dawn remain until the 5th Gen starts. Besides, you yourself stated that you don't even believe in "fanmade patterns", anyways, and for all we know, the whole "She leaves only at the start of a new Generation" could just as easily be a fanmade pattern, as is Ash going to Johto for a Battle Frontier or even making up an anime location outside of Sinnoh for the Battle Frontier.

I didn't see any hint to that at all
Let's see, he won most of the Gym battles as if they were nothing, especially considering his "newbie team", which would be an indicator that he was probably going to rank higher than Johto, at least, if not actually win a league. He made quite a few changes in strategies and taught Pokemon new moves, and, as you yourself said, he matured significantly.

Besides, how was it hinted that Ash will win the Sinnoh League anyways? Don't mention the Elite 4, since I already mentioned how Ash had met Elite 4 members throughout his journey and he still didn't win the regional league.

And winning ONE league is not enough
That's what I mean by "he's absolutely certain that he's become a Pokemon Master and mastered whatever criteria necessary to achieve that goal."

Just because someone beat X and X is supposedly "stronger than Y" that doesn't mean this person will 100% be able to beat Y
Battles have much more to them than this - and luck is also one of the factors
You can't know in advance who will win in a battle
If that is the case, why is it that people are claiming that TRio are a bunch of pathetic losers ever since they lost to a Caterpie?!

Weedle, me and others already explained to you about the TRio thing, let's not get into it again (especially one mostly everyone else in their world doesn't get it either, so you can't use it to prove Ash's brain level)
The only others I can think of who had not seen through a TR disguise completely was Delia, Lola and Flint. Other than them, most of them seemed to actually recognize their disguises at least once.

Remember she finally beat Drew who was an important rival/friend for her and got into the semi-final so it's understandable
Then why didn't Ash cry when he met a similar loss in the Johto League? He cried when his pokemon left him, he cried when Charizard disobeyed him during the Kanto League, he even cried when he lost against Paul, so why didn't he cry when he lost the Johto League.

It's no different than BF->Sinnoh
And there's nothing really wrong with it, fans just overexaggerate everything
Actually, there is, as it makes all the implications about the Battle Frontier being stronger than the Elite 4, the Champion, and especially Gym Leaders seem undeserving. If they were indeed stronger, then people who actually beat them out of pure skill would not even be capable of losing to someone lower than their level.
 
XY
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actually, this loss made things a lot less exciting. I mean, they already had Ash's Pikachu win against Regice ALL BY ITSELF, yet that loss against Ursaring basically made what Ash did throughout the entire career, especially Ash's win against Brandon, seem like it never happened.
The writers play with the Poké strength all the time, just ignore it - we can't do anything about it and it'll continue to happen

The lose does make the later win much more exciting
If Ash would do good in the battle it wouldn't be as exciting to watch their next battle
You're allowed to not agree with this but it does make sense to do something like this in a try to build excitement with viewers and also to make Ash and his Poké try hard next time to prove Paul wrong and prove themselves

Will it really matter? He already beat Brandon (whom, btw, would be either slightly or far stronger than Cynthia in any case), so him losing against Cynthia would actually be unrealistic (By that, I mean even by the show's standpoint.)
Still, Ash never had a battle against a champion so they'll probably showcase the champion as VERY strong
And they can use a lose to Cynthia as teaching Ash his win at the league doesn't mean he's "unbeatable" now

I'd buy that with Pikachu if they had Pikachu merely deliver the final blow on Regice rather than beat it outright. Seeing how he did beat Regice outright, the whole "playing with Poke's strengths" excuse isn't valid, since how Pikachu is being treated is far too unrealistic even FOR this show.
This show isn't realistic
They want to keep Ash and Pika as the stars
They also don't want them to be too strong as it'd be boring
So yeah, it might seem a little stupid sometimes but let's get over this, we can't do anything to change this
Also, maybe in battles like VS Brandon which is one Ash's most important battles, Pika over pushed itself to do more than it usually can
But let's just accept this "power reset"

If they wanted to make absolute certain that the fanbase got it in their heads that the regional Champions are allowed to travel to new regions and face off against Gym Leaders, they would have had a brief line of dialogue confirming that. They didn't.
I don't get what you tried to say in that
That Ash couldn't travel if he beat a Champion? he can easily not accept the offer to be the new champion and continue as he did in BF

Besides, Misty wanted to travel as well, she didn't even want to be at the gym, but she was left with no other choice because of her sisters being unreliable, and that she has no other relative to turn to.
And...? Ash won't be forced to take a champion's place just because he beat him

They had Ash actually doing a Trade, despite his earlier statements about how he will never trade.
He also used to release Poké if that was for the sake of their happiness
Even back then, he'd trade if that was for the sake of his Poké
He's against trading randomly as if the Poké are items and not friends - and that didn't change

they even confirmed Pikachu's gender despite official claims that Pikachu's gender will never be revealed
It wasn't so "official" anyway and they did make it very obvious it's male for years, some people just refused to accept it
But please - you randomly bring up a lot of "controversial" subjects like Misty/Pika's gender and we better not get into it

what makes you think they'll actually have Dawn remain until the 5th Gen starts.
This is also off topic, let's drop it

Don't mention the Elite 4, since I already mentioned how Ash had met Elite 4 members throughout his journey and he still didn't win the regional league.
But they never bothrered to say when someone win the league he can challenge them

If that is the case, why is it that people are claiming that TRio are a bunch of pathetic losers ever since they lost to a Caterpie?!
They constantly easily lose to the twerps and blast off for more than 10 years and 600 episodes
We don't need Caterpie to know that
Though they can be pretty good when they play fair like Jessie in Contests

Then why didn't Ash cry when he met a similar loss in the Johto League?
1. May is more sensitive
2. Ash didn't get to the semi final



Weedle, let's just stop
 
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Personally, I voted for option 2, I would be somewhat disappointed, because I want him to win a league match for once. There's that part of me that like, "Ash will win this region. I can feel it. The build up is huge for this one" and then there's this other part of me that's like "He'll lost like he always does. Probably to some random dude he met before the opening ceremonies." Though they both agree that Ash will win against Paul in he faces him in the Sinnoh Conference this time around. But if he does lose, I'll be prepared to enjoy the next region the anime throws right at us. Anything for the upcoming 5th Generation.
 
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He's not stupid and the days where he cried over a lose were like 10 years ago
Do people even watch the show they're talking about?
Umm no he is pretty stupid and he did used to whine like a bitch when he lost a big fight.
Well I do, sort of, because D/P is pretty stupid. It's all flashy animations, horrible voice actors, terrible story lines. I admit I liked the Ash vs Paul full fight. But yeah all in all, you just seem like a fan boy that cannot stand to watch someone else express their opinion.
 
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But if he does lose, I'll be prepared to enjoy the next region the anime throws right at us. Anything for the upcoming 5th Generation.
There is more on the line this time. In Kanto he was of course a beginner so he lost. In Johto he came off his triumphant victory to Gary and lost to a guy with a Blaziken hyping up the next region at the time.

Ash could have won the Hoenn league but he didn't because he had no major rivals at the time so we wouldn't feel the impact. Ash should win the Sinnoh league because of all the build-up with Paul.

Personally if there's any time for Ash to win a league, Sinnoh would be it.
 
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At this point, it's hard to tell which result would be the actual surprise, isn't it?

On one hand, we know that he's nearing his due, especially with all this E4 foreshadowing.

On the other hand, the course of this show and the prior league makes it hard for us to actually see him taking this one.

Because of this, I don't think I'd be surprised by other one. Just greatly disappointed if he lossed, and satisfied if he won.
 
XY
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Umm no he is pretty stupid and he did used to whine like a bitch when he lost a big fight.
USED TO
10 YEARS AGO
Ash is completely different in AG/DP than how he was in Kanto

terrible story lines.
*facepalm*

Yeah, let's go back to Hoenn's no rival, Kanto's get badges for free, Hoenn's Magma/Aqua, etc...

But yeah all in all, you just seem like a fan boy that cannot stand to watch someone else express their opinion.
That's no opinion
Whether a character is "stupid" or not is a fact that the writers chose
Ash WAS stupid in his beginner days
But he changed a LOT since then
 
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There is no reason Ash can't win the Sinnoh league and lose to the Elite 4, or win and then lose to Cynthia, and then still go to the Johto/Sinnoh Battle Frontier before going to the Gen V region. He wouldn't stop his journey just because he finally won a league. He'd want to challenge other leagues, or at the very least re-challenge the Kanto/Johto/Hoenn leagues. In Kanto they implied that the Indigo league takes place every year and it's probably the same for all regional leagues so in future the writers may very well have him re-enter them between generations. He still has all the badges so he wouldn't have to travel all over the regions getting them again. They might even have him re-enter the Johto league after the Sonnoh arc ends instead of another Battle Frontier. He could put in some massive training of his Sinnoh and Johto teams while Dawn does the Johto contests.
 
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My reaction would be, "I knew it." I strongly doubt Ash will ever win a major league. It leaves too little room for character development. They'd probably make him win the very last league, but I suspect (hopefully a long time from now) the show will end with a fizzle, not a bang, and the writers won't get to plan that.

I kind of like him not winning. He's an excellent trainer, but he's hardly the best of the best. It's perfectly realistic how they handle him in competitions, and I like that.
 
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I'd be extremely surprised if he won the league.

I'd hope he would at least get into the Top Four, though.
 
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I hope he wins, but then again, I hope Dawn stays...

I'll be sad, but I won't be surprised. The show's not gonna collapse if he wins. It's not like Ash is going to be taking this great big step closer to becoming a master just by winning a league. (I honestly think winning a league is overrated. But that could be partially because I beat the Elite Four and Champion in my games often. Still, we hear nothing from the people who win leagues. Shouldn't something really important happen to them besides getting satisfaction and a trophy or whatever? No? Then what's the big deal? Well, it is a big deal, but it's not like winning a league definitely equals Pokemon Master.)
 
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Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he lost. To me, it doesn't seem that he has had any 'revelation' of any sort, where he an outstanding trainer. I guess it's possible that he could magically own them all, but I doubt it.

But if he does win, I'll be thrilled. ;D
 
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My reaction would be, "I knew it." I strongly doubt Ash will ever win a major league. It leaves too little room for character development. They'd probably make him win the very last league, but I suspect (hopefully a long time from now) the show will end with a fizzle, not a bang, and the writers won't get to plan that.

I kind of like him not winning. He's an excellent trainer, but he's hardly the best of the best. It's perfectly realistic how they handle him in competitions, and I like that.
It kinda gives viewsers the hint that Ash is a good trainer, but he isnt the best. Thats why he never wins any of the leagues.
I doubt he'll win this one as well.
 
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We're all rookies at some point. However Ash is NO rookie. At the least I expect the final match where he would lose (final 2 Ash VS ???). That would be great.
 
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I call an Ash vs. Misty battle, because Misty got into the finals of the Sinnoh League.

I can dream can't I?
 
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I think it depend entirely on how the writers handle the league.

Will it get more episodes or will it be a rush job?

I think one of the reasons why Ash didn't improve in Hoenn is because they'd have to include an episode or two if they decided to delay Tyson vs Ash. We know Tyson won, and I think the reason they chose to have the fight Top 8 because if it was Top 4 it would mean there would have been another full battle. And since I believe they were in a rush to get to the Battle Frontier, they opted not to do that.

However at this time, I don't think the Sinnoh League will be rushed and could very well have more episodes to it. In which case there would be no reason why Ash couldn't at least get Top 4 or better.

I still doubt Ash will win, but it would be a pleasant surprise.
 
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