Whats Worst? Indigo League or Unova League?

[HiroHunter]

Well here's something that I had in my head that I wanted to bring out. What do you guys think is worst the Indigo League or the Unova League?

 

[IncineROAR]

The Indigo League was a dumpster fire.

The Unova League was actually a league I enjoyed. Just a pity that latecomer Cameron ruined it.

 

[sc190191]

I think the Indigo league kind of set the bar really low, as far as the Pokemon used and the strategies, quick knockouts, unlikely outcomes, etc. The fact that Ash got as far as he did with the team he had I think was a bit of a mistake. Just compare the Pokemon used and the battles to any other league and its pretty clear that the trainers there were underwhelming (except Gary who had a really solid team at the time and got screwed). It was still entertaining and the fact that Oak and Delia were there and the whole general atmosphere were really well done, you could really sense the importance, which I think is the one thing Indigo did better than other leagues. Overall though, just not that good of a league. The way it ended was obviously kind of dumb, I think it would have been a way better learning experience if Ash just got smacked by someone who was actually really good. And it was disappointing that Pidgeotto didn't really get involved, although it was the under appreciated hero of the final battle.

I only had a couple of issues with the Unova league, it certainly wasn't as bad. I did think Ash's first round victory just wasn't portrayed well. I don't have a problem with Pikachu beating Serperior, just that with what actually occurred in that battle I don't think Serperior should have been knocked out. Even Cameron doesn't bother me all that much, I think it was pretty clear he could train his Pokemon very well so his team was really strong, and Ash just didn't have enough to beat him. Making him dumb was a pretty weird touch, but I guess it just didn't bother me all that much, because I still think he was a good trainer. His stupidity will keep him from being a great trainer, but at that time he was still more than good enough to beat Ash. I do think letting Virgil win was a bit strange for a couple reasons, 1 an eeveelution team can't win anything competitive and 2 he didn't really care that much about winning and didn't pursue any opportunities to battle elite four, but at least we know who won in Unova, unlike in the Indigo League. Obviously Unova League's biggest mistake was Lost and the League, which is possibly one of the worst episodes in existence, but even with that extreme blemish, I think the Unova league pretty easily outpaced the Indigo League.

 

[Twilight-Kun]

Indigo was strangled by a lack of direction and early installment weirdness, and contrivances out the wazoo

Unova wasn't terrible and the first half of Ash vs Cameron wasn't that bad, Ash's lack of evolutions notwithstanding, but Riolu evolving was utter garbage and it should've lost to Snivy, and then have Ash lose to Virgil

 

[nickdt]

I don't think you can count Indigo league as bad league by default, since it was the first league and we couldn't compare it to anything. If all, you have to compare Unova and Hoenn. Hoenn had a few mistakes which cannot be excused with Early Installment weirdness, unlike with Kanto League (Glalie using Headbutt on a Ghost type for example), especially since other region animes also have some weird stuff in it (Hawlucha getting hit with Bone Rush from Lucario for example).

 

[Rockapheller]

I don't think you can count Indigo league as bad league by default, since it was the first league and we couldn't compare it to anything. If all, you have to compare Unova and Hoenn. Hoenn had a few mistakes which cannot be excused with Early Installment weirdness, unlike with Kanto League (Glalie using Headbutt on a Ghost type for example), especially since other region animes also have some weird stuff in it (Hawlucha getting hit with Bone Rush from Lucario for example).

Game logic ≠ Anime logic.
Anime considers physical rules more realistically than a programmed world. In same sense, a Flying-type Pokémon who is for some reason unable to fly, or at least levitate would reasonably get hit by a Ground-type move in the anime in a particular context and situation. In this manner, Hawlucha can get hit by Bone Rush if Lucario reaches to it.

 

[Neo Blaze]

Both Leagues rank at the far bottom for me but I'd have to go Indigo League. The Unova League is a trainwreck for many reasons but at least it was fun to see Trip get defeated in the first round (battle sucked, but eh...) and I thought the battle against Stephan was actually pretty good.

The Indigo League on the other hand was just so wonky and weird. Perhaps it didn't fail as hard in certain aspects as the Unova League did, but it's the league I'd be least interested in in rewatching. It's just incredibly lacklustre in my opinion, from the skipped/half assed battles in the early rounds, a battle played for complete comedy (Muk vs Bellsprout), Ash not battling his childhood rival, no 6v6 and Ash getting eliminated because of Squirtle falling asleep and Charizard not listening (seriously, what bs).

 

[RetroPokeFan]

Easily the Unova league. The most miserable 90-100 minutes you could ever spend with your life. Makes me wish that Pikachu actually lost to Serperior so we wouldn't have to sit through any more of that filth.

And Pikachu's a sodding favourite of mine.

That's not to say the Indigo League was bad too. It's aged about as well as Tayto trying to mix chocolate with cheese and onion crisps with so many dumb decisions across the border that I'll never get behind. I get that this was during the show's early years but man, they should have done better.

 

[Hidden Mew]

As a whole, I think that the Indigo League is the worst of the two. The first round battle was just Kingler being able to defeat three Pokemon in a row with moves coming out of nowhere, especially Hyper Beam, despite how Ash never used it before. We only saw highlights of the second and third round matches while the bulk of the episode was devoted to Ash looking around the city for food and Pokemon Center. I'd say that the fourth round match was the best battle of the League. Admittedly, that isn't saying much, especially with the Kanto arc isn't widely regarded for its battles to begin with, but Ash being able to win the match on his own without Misty and Brock on the sidelines as his coaches was neat. Ash not battling against Gary did seem like a wasted opportunity. In a way, I can understand why that happened. It was to show just how tough the League was, but it would have been neat to see them battle, especially when that didn't happen until near the start of the Johto arc.

The battle against Ritchie only lasted five minutes, which was annoying to me even when I first watched it due to how much buildup they had for it. I don't think it was a good choice to have Ash fight off Team Rocket for the bulk of the episode and Squirtle being eliminated for falling asleep was stupid, but I don't have a problem with Ash's defeat in this League. He might have been able to defeat Ritchie if Team Rocket didn't kidnap him, but I couldn't see Ash getting past the next round with his skills. Getting to the top eight in his first Pokemon League would have felt a bit too much, especially with how he got some of his badges. Being in the top sixteen felt a lot more believable with his skills throughout the series. Plus, it was rather fitting that his Charizard being so disobedient was the reason why Ash couldn't advance further. If Ash did take the time to actually work on Charizard's behavior instead of just calling it out and begging it to listen to him, he might have been able to go further in the Indigo League. They definitely could have handled the match better, but the reason behind why Ash ultimately lost was fine.

The Unova League didn't start off the best with Ash vs. Trip. Even upon my rewatch of the series, it still felt like a cheap win considering how overpowered Trip's Serperior was and how much damage Pikachu had taken. That being said, getting rid of Trip in the first round and giving them a one on one match was honestly the best way they could have handled Trip's character and his rivalry with Ash. He definitely didn't deserve a full battle against Ash or even a three-on-three match. The battle against Stephan was pretty good and was probably the best battle in the Unova League. Much like the Indigo League, they did skip over another round for Ash in favor of an Axew is lost filler episode, which was and still is stupid on so many levels. Bianca's annoying presence also brings down the Unova League for me, but she is also one of the worst aspect of BW as a whole for me.

For the most part, I thought Ash vs. Cameron was actually a pretty good battle. It was pretty engaging and both sides showed some good moves. There were still some bad choices on Ash's part. Using Oshawott against Hydriegon was a really bad choice and was one reason I was almost okay with Ash losing the match. The biggest problem was just how Cameron won. While he was shown to be a competent trainer in battle, he was also a complete moron who didn't know what a full battle was and had to rely on his Riolu in order to defeat Ash. While I don't think Ash regressed as badly as a lot of fans claim he did during BW, I do think that getting to the Top Eight was fitting for him, mainly because his Unova team was underdeveloped and his skills still weren't on par or better than what they were in DP. It was kind of a surprise that Ash didn't lose to Virgil since he seemed much more like a typical League only rival that Ash loses to. Plus, I think a lot of people were expecting his Eevee to become Sylveon, or some new Eeveelution if Sylveon hadn't been revealed at that point. While I don't think how he lost to Cameron was good, I can kind of see why they wanted Ash to face off against a Lucario instead of an Eevee or one of its evolutions.

If Cameron wasn't so stupid, he didn't use Pokemon that had major disadvantages against Ash during the first half of the battle and he brought six Pokemon for the match, I think I would have been more okay with Ash losing to him and the battle would have been better, although I'd say that it was a relatively decent match all things considered.

It might not be fair to compare the two Leagues in a way. The Indigo League was the first time they tried to make a Pokemon League arc, so it handles it much differently than other series since they were still figuring things out. I'd say that the Indigo League was the overall weakest Pokemon League thus far, while the Unova League arguably had the worst way for Ash to lose a League. Although, I'm not sure if Ash losing to Alain bothers me more now than losing to Cameron. The Unova League is the still not particularly good as a whole in my opinion, but it does have some good spots and with a few changes, it probably could have been at least decent.

 

[Nicolas721]

Both start with a meh battle (Trip/Mandi), continue with a good battle (Stephan/Jeanette) and end with a terrible battle (Cameron/Ritchie). However, even with the infamous Axew filler, the Unova League has much better pacing and better roles for Ash's Pokemon than the Kanto League.

 

[BigDocFan]

Neither league was good in my opinion, too much filler in Kanto but poor character in Cameron, Ritchie wasn't terrible

 

[prog rocker]

I'm kind of divided, on one hand, the Indigo League had an enormous anti-climax since Ash lost thanks to Charizard doing nothing. On the other hand, there's Cameron, who apparently was created to show us that Ash wasn't so bad. *sigh* Someday they will run out of ways to make Ash lose.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

The Stephan fight blew all the other battles in both leagues out the water but, you gotta judge anime battles for their time.

Yeah the Indigo League had skipped fights and dumb shit but it also had my favorite episode in whole show: the episode directly after Ash loses. It just felt like such sincere character development for Ash.

 

[Alola]

Unova League. I'm sorry, but Cameron's bull-droppings win was just too much. He was just stupid, I mean sheer stupidity personified and he still beat Ash. Not to mention the other randomness, such as how Trip lost unceremoniously and Virgil came out of nowhere to claim the title. I don't look back at it fondly.

 

[KenzeyEevee]

I think they will never make that mistake again, making a pokémon as bad as the Unova League. I stopped watching BW, and tbh I wasn't very into it to begin with. I don't think it is fair to compare the first league Ash has ever done with the Unova League. Unova was a mistake I sometimes think.

 

[KrspaceT]

Hard to say: though I will say that watching the Unova Ash v Cameron fight always felt off.

Not just for how Cameron manages to function, but also the fact that the entire battle feels off. It feels more like some average fanfic battle depiction instead of a proper battle/good fanfic battle depiction.

 

[Daenerys]

The Indigo League was a mess. Kingler sweeping Mandi's team, Ash's second match being mostly off-screen, and Ash's loss against Ritchie were all garbage writing.

 

[Poneto]

I loved Indigo League! Pokemon were more mysterious back then, and the battles were sparkly messes like they are now. Some of the most memorable episodes, characters and arcs are from that season (Bye Bye Butterfree, Misty, Charizard obedience arc are all good examples). I actually managed to watch all of Indigo.

In contrast, I tried to get back into the anime when BW came out, but I couldn't even last 5 episodes. The plot is just stagnant IMO.

 

[prog rocker]

The Indigo League was a mess. Kingler sweeping Mandi's team, Ash's second match being mostly off-screen, and Ash's loss against Ritchie were all garbage writing.

Oh, right. I forgot the offscreen battles. Didn't they only show the end of the rock field battle? Or I'm only remembering Nidorino's defeat?

 

[KrspaceT]

Oh, right. I forgot the offscreen battles. Didn't they only show the end of the rock field battle? Or I'm only remembering Nidorino's defeat?

Yeah I hold that all league can and should be longer, but Kanto is probably the worst in that regard. Unova is definately second though.