What's your opinion on the XY/XYZ saga?

[The King]

• Art style led to misconceptions that Ash was now older
• Serena herself is probably the shallowest character in the history of the series
• The series also attracted shonen fans
• For some reason people actually thought Ash had a shot at winning the Kalos League despite almost two decades of prior history showing that he will never win one

For these reasons, XY/XYZ is the worst thing to ever happen to the anime. Whatever short term positives it had are greatly outweighed by the long term damage it did, and we should all be happy that OLM decided to move away from that path in favor of something sustainable.

 

[Gligarman]

To be frank, it sounds like you're upset that Kalos was so popular that it attracted people that wouldn't ordinarily watch the series. I don't see how that's a bad thing. They took a different approach and as a result the fan base grew. Plus we had just gotten over Best Wishes which even most Pokemon fans didn't like.

 

[Silktree]

I didn't like the series for the reasons you highlighted and then some, but it didn't really ruin anything. BW had already made the continuity loose enough that just about anything could be done with it. I'm pretty sure that the shippers and shonen fans you mentioned are mostly gone, but they'll be back if the next series panders to them.

 

[SammyW27]

Ah heck, EVERY series tries to do things differently (some more so than others). Shot, sometimes the series will change course mid-saga.
There are probably people who could say AG, DP, BW, or SM ruined the community for whatever reason.
Sounds to me like you're just being sour grapes about them doing things you didn't like.
PS: I fail to see how you can all Serena the shallowest character when we have Max, post Kanto-Misty, post-OS Brock, Bonnie, Clemont, Mallow, and Sophocles...
(Not intending to bash. for comparison's sake)

 

[Gligarman]

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What kind of people belong here if not people who enjoy Pokemon?

 

[Pulsaro23]

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And who exactly made you the authority on who gets to be in the Pokémon community?

 

[KenzeyEevee]

Not agreeing with that statement of yours. No series of pokémon destroyed the anime. And the points you made are your personal opinion. And please stop with saying that Dawn is better than Serena and visa versa. If you have real proof, not your personal opinion, than I am curious.

 

[Silktree]

post Kanto-Misty, post-OS Brock, Bonnie, Clemont, Mallow, and Sophocles...

Johto Misty had six notable battles and inspired Sakura to go on a journey. Her Chronicles self protected the gym, tamed a Gyarados and then came to Hoenn where she saved the Togepi Paradise. While her development was stretched out over too many years, she wasn't a shallow character and her fiery personality was never gone, either.

Granted, Serena wasn't shallow if you liked Showcases. But a lot of fans, I'd wager to say most, didn't.

 

[KyseL]

As much as I initially liked XY/XYZ I feel kinda the same, but for different reasons.

It feels like in the eyes of many XY is free of criticism just because it brought more edgy action, more shipping, and more "hype" moments, which is pretty much the recipe for a teen's poorly written fanfic. It's just hard to have a proper discussion about XY because it's pretty common for fans (not all) to solely like it on the basis of how "hype" it was, how old or competent Ash felt, Serena's crush for Ash, etc., all without acknowledging, that even the things they liked might have had problems too.

Honestly, I'm also upset because it feels I'm not allowed to publicly enjoy my favorite series (SM) without being made fun of in one way or another, just because of how different it is from all the previous series and SPECIALLY how different it is from XY/XYZ. And it's not like I'm not willing to admit SM is flawed too, it definitely has pacing issues among other stuff.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Art style led to misconceptions that Ash was now older

Well, he was older than before, obviously. Now he's older more.

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You obviously didn't see the good old days, when shipper subforum was always active. Heck, founder of this site was a big shipper himself. Nowadays there is hardly any activity in shippers forum, not even in XY times.

For some reason people actually thought Ash had a shot at winning the Kalos League despite almost two decades of prior history showing that he will never win one

He has a shot at winning it. Also, Orange League says hi.

The series also attracted shonen fans.

Pokemon is a shounen series. A very safe and kid friendly one, but it's still shounen by its tropes and storylines.

For these reasons, XY/XYZ is the worst thing to ever happen to the anime. It was a mistake and the Kalos League ruined the fanbase forever. Whatever short term positives it had are greatly outweighed by the long term damage it did, and we should all be happy that OLM decided to move away from that path in favor of something sustainable.

I like how you created a puppet account, just so you can troll other fans without any kind of repercussions.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

Hmm... I disagree with saying that Pokemon was never a "shonen" anime. Shonen means its aimed at "young boys." Its clearly always been aimed for young boys.

I have an issue with people who dislike a character and call them "shallow" because of certain qualities they didn't like. While I'm not Serena's biggest fan, she was not shallow by any means. Her character was very well constructed. She changed over the course of the series and became a better person.

I've believed Ash was older since Hoenn and maybe even Johto because of his maturity making him not nearly as hotheaded as he was in the beginning. The art style was very shoujo-esque, mature and beautiful and XY, but that doesn't ruin a series.

People always have the hope that Ash will win. BW was probably the only season where I remember no one being surprised by how bad he lost.

The anime community, to be honest, has never been a pocket full of sunshine. No matter how great or terrible a series is, there will be people bitter. That's the sad fact about our community.

Also, we should be happy that it brought people into the community. Do not police who comes in. That's absurd.

Besides, there's nothing special about being a group of people who have enough time to hang on a forum and talk about Pokemon all day.

 

[The King]

He has a shot at winning it. Also, Orange League says hi.

Orange League was filler, it's not canon to the source material.

Pokemon is a shounen series. A very safe and kid friendly one, but it's still shounen by its tropes and storylines.

Tropes and storyline don't define shounen. It's a demographic, not a genre.

Shounen: A style of Japanese animation and comics aimed at a younger male audience.

Kodomo: Japanese manga or anime specifically made for children.

Pokemon falls into the latter category, making it a kodomo series.

 

[Gligarman]

In regards to Ash looking older, all they did was make his clothes less baggy. It's his demeanor that changed. He has the same proportions as the previous models.

 

[KyseL]

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Uhm excuse me?

 

[NeoMiniTails]

Orange League was filler, it's not canon to the source material.

Pokemon anime's source material is the anime. While its lightly based on the games, the anime has never followed the game or any of the manga.

If its filler and its in the anime, its still canon.

The orange islands led him to the next region. The Pokemon caught during that time are still canon to the anime Charizard leaving was in Orange Islands and I'm pretty sure that it was acknowledged multiple times.

Tropes and storyline don't define shounen. It's a demographic, not a genre.

Shounen: A style of Japanese animation and comics aimed at a younger male audience.

Kodomo: Japanese manga or anime specifically made for children.

Pokemon falls into the latter category, making it a kodomo series.

Tropes are a major part of what makes it what it is. Just as an action movie aimed at young boys won't typically have Disney princess tropes for the lead.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Tropes and storyline don't define shounen. It's a demographic, not a genre.

Then what do you mean by XY's "attracting shonen fans"? People older than 10? That's a very big part of this forum, before and after XY.

Uhm excuse me?

You of all people, liking XY, surprising.

 

[KyseL]

You of all people liking XY, surprising.

I mean, I used to like it at least. Specially compared to AG - BW, but it was nothing special compared to other shows outside of the franchise (at least for me). I definitely didn't hate it while it was airing, but in hindsight XY had a lot of flaws that people just don't seem to acknowledge.

And to be completely honest I'd be lying if I didn't say that I feel I've grown at least a little bitter towards XY just as a consequence of XY fans being extremely bitter towards SM and SM fans.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Specially compared to AG - BW

This day is truly full of surprises.

 

[Johtohfiller]

Pretty much all of these complaints have been a thing since AG.

 

[KyseL]

This day is truly full of surprises.

I don't remember saying any of those were really good at any point in time. I mean, I kinda liked what I saw while I was watching them (or the episodes I managed to stick around for), but similarly to XY I never really felt they were particularly great.