Which is better: DP or BW?

[HumanDawn]

I still think that Ash was at his dumbest in DP .

 

[Trainer Gabriel]

I still think that Ash was at his dumbest in DP .

And why do you say that?

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

I, for one, wonder why the writing style changed for BW. Did the writers think DP was too serious?

GameFreak's Junichi Masuda has disclosed a surprising feature of Pokemon Black & White via his blog. In a post today, Masuda revealed that Black & White players will encounter only new Pokemon until they've cleared the game.

The reason for this design choice, says Masuda, is because they want to put kids and adults on the same starting line and give all players the feeling of "What is this Pokemon?", similar to what they might have experienced when playing the original of all Pokemon games, Pokemon Red & Blue.

Link And no, I haven't found the actual blog translation. I have the link to actual blog post though.
In addition to that:

Spoiler

Actually Aya Matsui and Masashi Sogo, who were writers since AG, haven't done anything in Best Wishes.

Not to mention, the amount of episodes each writer write have changed too. Tomioka, who is the main writer and writer of the majority of the D/P episodes(specifically the ones that focus on Shinji and Hikari, he apparently said Shinji was his favourite character in D/P according to TVTropes, which will probably shape your opinions on the guy, or if you are an Eva fan, make silly comparisons between him and Anno), is near non-existant in Best Wishes, and it seems Yonemura has written the majority of the episodes(not that he isn't a great writer himself).

Actually let's look at the chart(it's easy for me at this point because there aren't much episodes):
Fujita: 16 episodes
Takegami: 13 episodes
Yonemura: 16 episodes.
Ohashi: 15 episodes
Tomioka: 11 episodes+ 2 unaired episodes.
Sonoda: 3 episodes.

But "did writers think DP was too serious?" question may not be properly answered, especially since we don't know how serious TP vs. TR episodes were supposed to be; DVD covers ceratinly agree on you about DP being more serious, and BW being more goofy:

Spoiler

There is actually quite a lot of merchandişing change in Best Wishes, but I need to research those more carefully to make a point, and that needs it's own post anyways.

Sidenote: Is it me or does Shooty totally look like he has the same face as Urara has in that picture?

Edit: Of course the chart I posted has changed a long time ago, and Tomioka has been doing both Hachiku battle and Homika Part 1, but it still gives you a general gist of things.

 

[Cybersai]

I got that impression for all of the main protagonists in DP. Ash was so focused on training his pokemon for gym battles and trying to live up to Paul's expectations that he wasn't interacting with Dawn or Brock that much. Meanwhile, Dawn was living up to her mother's reputation and focused most of her free time on contests. Brock hardly got much screentime in DP outside of his recurring gags, but he had a few starring episodes in which he interacted with another character outside of the main cast.

The BW main cast is seen interacting a lot more with one another. Ash and Cilan are usually the ones to strike up a conversation while Iris tries to insert her own opinion to validate her presence among them.

That's it for me, my enjoyment of characters not only comes from their own personalitiess, but how they interact with others. Its one of the reasons some enjoyed May's contests more than Dawn's due to May and her rivals interactions, even if Dawn's were more "realistic." The Dawn/Zoey/Kenny dynamic was also fairly boring, and its a shame because if Ursula had been introduced earlier it could have been much better.

Its funny, I think I liked Dawn's character more than Iris, but I enjoy watching the BW trio far more than I ever did the DP trio. In fact the DP trio itself is why I started getting bored of Sinnoh somewhere around the middle, the main cast was just getting so stale.

Its the same with Paul and Trip. The Ash/Paul rivalry was the most exciting aspect of DP, yet the Ash/Trip rivalry is the most boring thing I've ever seen in my life. Its amazing how the writers can sometimes do some things better than others.

 

[Masurao]

The absence of any clear direction in BW makes it seem sloppily put together.

 

[Shinneth]

The lightning-fast pace of BW may have at least a small impact on my distaste for the series. I'm obviously not the target audience for the show in general, but DP's much slower pacing worked for me (for the most part). 4 years allowed for many well-written and consistent subplots, subtle character development that in most cases didn't come off as forced (Ash having much less Pokemon to fight for screentime helped develop all of them into their own individual characters with at least one chance for some spotlight), and even when the pacing was at the slowest point (between Snowpoint City and Sunyshore City - arguably that gap can be justified if you apply game logic and realize the two cities were on like opposite ends of the region in the games), there was still a lot going on in terms of consistent plot and character development, as well as some episodes purely there for comedy and lighthearted enjoyment. I would definitely not liken DP to Johto despite the similar slow pacing due to this; Johto didn't make nearly as much use of its free time.

With BW, the pacing is so fast that it's bizarre and hard for me to comprehend where the staff is going with this. It cuts down on time that could've been used to perhaps improve on some of the major issues of BW (such as Ash's Unova team sucking ass and being bland save for only a handful of exceptions), subplots such as Iris' are resolved before they have a chance to gain any steam, and honestly the "journey" atmosphere of the show is damaged a bit when the journey itself goes by so quickly. In nearly every case of the series, Ash is traveling each region by foot (unless something like a river/sea is impeding his progress). At a pace like that, I sorta expect things to go slowly. After all, Ash needs that time to prepare for the League (especially since he feels so backwards in progression compared to previous series). In DP, I safely assume most felt that Ash was at a higher level of power than he'd ever been before just before the Sinnoh League. We had high hopes for him, and Ash delivered in his battles. He not only made his first rank progression since Johto, but technically I consider him an informal Runner-Up given that the trainer that made it to the finals with Tobias didn't fare nearly as well as Ash did.

Now, in less than half the time of DP, BW Ash is about to get his final badge (in the stupidest way possible), and I certainly don't feel Ash is anywhere near ready for the League, especially if he plans on using his Unova Pokemon for most or all the battles. I don't believe this iteration of Ash deserves to make the Top 4 again, or even Top 8. I hardly think he qualifies to make it past the preliminaries; BW has not shown Ash off very well at all because they've overemphasized his status as a kid in a foreign region (because Ash has totally never been in this position before, right? ), for the most part ignoring his advancements from past. Maybe this could have been rectified if BW wasn't so fast-paced, but the writing would have to be adjusted too, of course.

I understand advertising the games comes first in this show and BW2 just happens to be coming out at an unusual time compared to the releases of past main-series games. But that doesn't justify BW's crazy pacing, as I've come to find that BW lacks a coherent general story to follow due to this and many other factors. But DP to me was a well-written and properly planned series with a cohesive story from beginning to end that made me want to keep watching the show, even during its lower points. BW, however, lacks everything that isn't the core basics, which makes it a chore for me to watch. All iterations of the Pokemon anime have the core story of "little boy with big dreams"; but most series had other features and storylines to follow to keep the story fresh and interesting. With BW... I only see the core storyline being consistent, and it isn't engaging due to the writing flubs. I see plenty of ideas tossed around in BW, but very few of them stick and the ones that appeal to me just give me this ominous feeling of "this won't end well; they'll irrepairably screw this up somehow".

Some welcome the fast pacing that BW brings, and that's fine. I'm just not one of those people. I don't mean that BW *should* be as lengthy as DP, but the significantly smaller amounts of time available in this series to expand on other story elements are already handled pretty badly; BW rarely makes good use of what time it does have. Having less time to get attached to the new cast doesn't help either, especially if choice members of said cast are notably hard to tolerate.

I want to believe things will turn around in season 2 here, I really do, as there are elements there that appeal to me. But they can be messed up just as easily as the other potentially likable things in this series were for me. And there are elements that I already don't like to the new arc of the series. And honestly, if the Unova League IS 3 months real time, that doesn't give BW2 a lot of time to turn things around enough to make up for the nigh-unbearable crap that's happened for the last 2 years. One summer to rectify everything that went wrong in BW?

Doesn't seem terribly likely to me. But that's me. Just sayin'.

 

[hina18]

I've seen only a few ep. of BW , but I just like the characters and pokemon of DP more.

 

[HumanDawn]

My favourite DP episode is the last episode. Why? Because it meant that the horrible saga was finally going to end!

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

My favourite DP episode is the last episode. Why? Because it meant that the horrible saga was finally going to end!

Well at least DP with debately the exception of Paul had no character derailment. First episode of BW Ash is ten again, he sucked again, and he lost to a rookie dispite his Pikachu beating more powerful mons with out electric type moves in the past. Then there is the Gothita episode where Ash willingly bets one of his own Pokemon because someone was mocking him. Ash cares too much about his pokemon to do that and he is less sensitive now. And Tommorow we have a battle where Ash willingly agrees to a handicapped gym battle dispite many MANY MANY times in the past refusing badges he feels he didn't earn. DP evolved Ash's character BW dragged it through dirt just to recapture a certain charm of the OS which to my understanding didn't even exist. And you're seriously calling DP horrible? It had some dumb filler but filler is dumb in every saga.

 

[JennaJayfeather]

Spoiler

O.O

...

BW. If anyone can sit down and drink tea without sitting in a chair, it pretty much confirms an epic series of adventure, wonder, and humor.

 

[Midorikawa]

Spoiler

O.O

...

BW. If anyone can sit down and drink tea without sitting in a chair, it pretty much confirms an epic series of adventure, wonder, and humor.

Totally true, but we all know that Dent/Cilan is that amazing. BW is good in that it didn't drag out the time between Ash's gym matches, but didn't put them too close together. Also there is a lot of interaction between all the characters, this didn't even happen during the League and Grand Festival in DP.

 

[Cybersai]

Except DP had plot and character development, which is exactly why the saga was liked when it was airing. I understand people not liking parts of DP, but at least it showed that the writers are capable of continuing plotlines and arcs when they try.

 

[Midorikawa]

Except DP had plot and character development, which is exactly why the saga was liked when it was airing. I understand people not liking parts of DP, but at least it showed that the writers are capable of continuing plotlines and arcs when they try.

Admittedly the side characters haven't gotten much plot development yet in BW, but Ash can't really be developed anymore, and Iris and Cilan are starting to get there. BW still has a long time before it ends so there is still time. Plus the pokemon get plenty.

 

[SolgaleoGX]

DP.

Why? Better plots and better consistency. We see Ash grow further from his expirience at the Battle Frontier. We see interesting stories, rivals and threats. Even if Ursula and Conway did next to nothing, they proved to be more interesting and hold more potential than Trip (and I'd dare say, Georgia, Burgundy and Stephan).

I see none of that in BW.

What does BW have that DP lacks? Dento. That guy does nothing and yet is still amusing as hell.

 

[Cybersai]

Even in the same timeframe of the first 80ish episodes of DP to the first 80ish BW episodes, there's a load of difference.

Ash may have more pokemon in BW, but they're barely shown and developed poorly. All of the Sinnoh Pokemon got proper development. While I don't care about the whole Dawn/Iris preference, they obviously focused on Dawn a lot more.

Then there are the battles, rivals and villains, which DP just handled better in every way.

 

[JennaJayfeather]

Except DP had plot and character development, which is exactly why the saga was liked when it was airing. I understand people not liking parts of DP, but at least it showed that the writers are capable of continuing plotlines and arcs when they try.

I don't know. It just felt too serious at times, like it was trying to have this "drama" about it, but to me, it just made it feel childish (as in more of a child trying to act "grown up" when it doesn't have to). Perhaps, I was growing out of it then...but I could only focus on episodes when it had something funny happen. Like Barry.

 

[Midorikawa]

Except DP had plot and character development, which is exactly why the saga was liked when it was airing. I understand people not liking parts of DP, but at least it showed that the writers are capable of continuing plotlines and arcs when they try.

I don't know. It just felt too serious at times, like it was trying to have this "drama" about it, but to me, it just made it feel childish (as in more of a child trying to act "grown up" when it doesn't have to). Perhaps, I was growing out of it then...but I could only focus on episodes when it had something funny happen. Like Barry.

We do have to remember that it is a kids show, that is about kids. Which is part of the reason I like BW so much. The characters show that they're mature enough to be out on their own at ten, but still show that they are ten year old children. Like Trip in the episode with Alder, or how Cabernet and Langley always act. Stephan challenging Ash to an eating competition, and so on.

 

[Cybersai]

I don't know. It just felt too serious at times, like it was trying to have this "drama" about it, but to me, it just made it feel childish (as in more of a child trying to act "grown up" when it doesn't have to). Perhaps, I was growing out of it then...but I could only focus on episodes when it had something funny happen. Like Barry.

It felt like the writers were trying to turn the show into a more dramatic or plot-driven series. You could tell it was leaning in that direction when AG was airing, but it wasn't quite there yet. Yes, I found the DP trio bland, but the actual episodes made me like it.

DP simply has some truly epic moments that most other sagas simply don't have. It was the only saga to make me feel that instead of being a repetitive kids show, it was showing the potential of being much more. I was absolutely blown away by all the Hunter J, Team Galactic and Paul episodes. The development of the Gym leaders and the battles were done the best. It also had smart use of mini-arcs, where most events were connected to other episodes no matter how minor. There were several episodes which made me say, "Holy shit, this is actually happening in Pokemon?"

DP was basically a combination of everything the writers learned from Kanto through AG. It was like a step forward from everything of the last 10 years, but the only problem is it was brought down by bland group dynamics and some duller contest characters.

 

[Midorikawa]

@Gliscor'd there was also the fact that DP has the most episodes of any of the series so far, yet the only rivals we got too see in a decent amount of episodes were Paul, Zoey, and Barry. Take Nando for example: He appeared in three episodes early in the series, two of which were centered around him, yet he didn't even get that much screen time, and after his third episode he doesn't have a non-cameo appearance until the Grand Festival. Ursula was similar to this that she didn't appear until the end of the series, when it would have been more interesting to see her multiple times because here rivalry with Dawn was different than Zoey, Kenny, and Jessalina. Dawn never even fought Nando in a contest either.

 

[Cybersai]

It really doesn't matter. If you count them by series, then AG went on for as long as DP did (they both literally had exactly 191 episodes), and Kanto/Orange/Johto together has 276, but in keeps mostly the same cast and recurring characters.

I didn't like everything about DP, but what it did do well, it did extremely well.