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Which series was the worst one?

Which anime series was the worst one?

  • OS

    Votes: 8 11.0%
  • AG

    Votes: 2 2.7%
  • DP

    Votes: 2 2.7%
  • BW

    Votes: 53 72.6%
  • XY

    Votes: 8 11.0%

  • Total voters
    73
used Thunderhand!
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I never understand fandom's hate for Mastermind of Mirage special. What was so terrible about the plot?
I don't know. I personally liked that special, even if I admit the voice acting was a bit… off. For example, May sounded a bit too adult for my tastes.

However, as someone who never followed the English dub, I guess I wasn't as "biased" as most people, and I was barely bothered by the characters' voices.

The way I interpreted the plot, I liked the idea of this movie being some sort of reference to cheats and hacks, considering the fact that Mirage Pokémon are essentially hacked Pokémon with unnatural moves and with infinite health cheats enabled.

Of course, I don't think that was the original idea of the movie, but I simply loved that theory.

The villain was pretty weak and I thought using Pikachu's memories to learn about the different Pokemon it had encountered was forced into the story just to make it feel more like an anniversary special. The fact that the villain seemed to know that the others had seen a different Mewtwo before also seemed odd.
The way I see it, Dr. Yung found out about Mewtwo through Pikachu's inner memories and created a replica by using said memories as a source. After all, following the events of Mewtwo Returns, Pikachu knows well who Mewtwo is.

Otherwise, another interpretation could be that the doctor was actually talking to the audience rather than to the characters. As in, "Look everybody! This is not the same Mewtwo you all know! This is a Mirage Mewtwo created by me!", in a sense.

Now, I may understand that the plot is a bit cheesy and predictable, but I personally still liked it. The idea of "hacked" Pokémon fascinate me, and I wish the movie explored that idea a bit more in-depth.
 
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The way I see it, Dr. Yung found out about Mewtwo through Pikachu's inner memories and created a replica by using said memories as a source. After all, following the events of Mewtwo Returns, Pikachu knows well who Mewtwo is.

Otherwise, another interpretation could be that the doctor was actually talking to the audience rather than to the characters. As in, "Look everybody! This is not the same Mewtwo you all know! This is a Mirage Mewtwo created by me!", in a sense.

Now, I may understand that the plot is a bit cheesy and predictable, but I personally still liked it. The idea of "hacked" Pokémon fascinate me, and I wish the movie explored that idea a bit more in-depth.
That is a good point regarding Pikachu remembering Mewtwo Returns. I'm not sure if they showed footage of that when Dr. Yung was looking through Pikachu's memories. They showed most of the movies up to that point, but I'm not sure about that special. Still, that is a possibility.

Dr. Yung talking to the audience instead of the characters would actually kind of bother me more in a way. It was obviously a Mirage Mewtwo, so I don't think that the audience would need to be told that this wasn't the same Mewtwo they're used to. If the concept was explored more and it didn't feel like an excuse to recreate the first movie in a way, then maybe it would have been better or at least more enjoyable for me.
 
Dr. Fuji?!
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They actually skipped over the first movie and only showed the following six movies. But does it matter if we didn't see it? There is also the possiblity that Yung got access to Dr. Fuji's old data, since he hacked into all databases in the world, supposedly.

And the comparison to hacking is something that occurred to me back then.

Edit: I'm watching the special in Japanese and it's pretty solid. I like the way Yung tricks the others into believing that the Mirage man is separate from him.
 
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For me it's crystal clear which series would get my vote and that is XY. Not only is it the antithesis of what direction I would like to see the pokemon anime take - since even though I do like action and most of the anime I watch would fall into the shounen demographic anyways, I felt XY was an over-concentrated action series with no personality.

Initially, I had written out all the faults I felt were apparent with this series but it was becoming quite lengthy so I'll attempt to just summarise them here: 1. Ash's personality was incredibly lacking and lifeless outside of battles, I disliked how idolised and revered he was as a character by the people around him in this series - he felt unrealistic, perpetuating shounen protagonist stereotypes without much affability and was difficult to relate to 2. I found the pacing to be quite poor in terms of setting up rivalries, Sawyer was introduced quite late for a rival, didn't become a threat until quite some time later (though I did enjoy how the anime used Ash's complacency towards Sawyer against him during his battle against Wulfric, I wish in XY they had further expanded on the theme of Ash's complacency getting to the better of him), Miette was terribly developed and used shamelessly as an anchor for Amourshipping rather than a competent rival and threat in her own right, Alain was awkwardly shoehorned into the League as the formidable rival - that was just cavalier, Tierno showed me so much interesting potential just at the end of his time on the anime to get unjustifiably beaten by Sawyer in the League for plot purposes 3. The entire Kalos League was written terribly - that Furfou guy's concept and how it related Ash's growth could have been so much more interesting if they hadn't shoehorned into the first round of matches so sloppily, the nauseating pace of the matches, some blatant animation errors, Ash and Alain being in the Top 2 4. The group dynamic - sometimes I felt that the writers tried to dilute Serena and Ash's relationship to focus more on her crush and shipping hints which was just an insult to their friendship, Serena and Clemont had no dynamic whatsoever, the over-idolisation of Ash came off as really grating to me, Bonnie was the only saving grace to an otherwise painfully manufactured group 5. I liked how the writers had set up Serena as someone who didn't really know what they were doing in life, who didn't have a set goal but I feel they like they waited a bit too long for comfort to set something up for her, I would have liked more episodes initially on her trying more things than what she did just try (although, it was cool how what she partook in became elements of Showcases) for the writers to fall on a very uninspired version of contests with a gender segregated twist: Showcases, I didn't like how you only needed three princess keys and I wished there was at least a judges' panel alongside a popularity vote (a la televised singing/talent competitions) 6. Ash-Greninja took up way too much time from development that I felt could have been invested in the rest of Ash's team, was a little contrived of a concept, caused me to like Greninja a bit less, a few members of Ash's team I didn't feel had as much of a personality towards the end of the series, the Pokemon interactions for his team was poor at times.

XY for me was a really difficult series to sit through and almost made me watch stop watching the anime, which is no easy feat in itself. I won't be rewatching it any time too soon and I'm glad SM isn't a twin of it.
 
Dr. Fuji?!
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Very nicely put. I didn't feel like explaining all the flaws, but you did it for me.

I'll just add that Team Flare and Zygarde failed to be compelling. They were just there until the very climax, which I'll always remember as that one time when everyone fussed over vines and a giant statue, lol.
 
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i have to say i actually for the most part found xy worse than bw the iris character was irritating but she wasn't dull to watch and had pertential but as well as the writers coming up with some interesting ideas even if most of them failed in quality
 
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And the Mastermind of Mirage Pokémon did better at celebrating the 10th anniversary than M20 is doing for the 20th.
Well, the movie leaves out all the past companions and the way it seems to implement Ho-Oh is hardly riveting stuff.
Have you watched the movies? Are you VIPs? Could you both provide a comprehensive, word-to-word summary of the movie?
And how much the world will respect you both for writing/leaking the screenplay of the movie before it was released!!
 
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Considering how bare the movie coverage is, I see little to be optimistic. The less plot elements a movie has, the less there is to say about it. And what they have said is boring.
 
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I think the worst thing about Mastermind itself (not the dub) is the god-awful art. But at least it's an anniversary special that actually, you know, celebrates the franchise's past.

Best Wishes almost made the cut as my least favorite series, primarily because of how poorly Team Rocket was treated (they made a complete 180 personality-wise like 4 times with no in-show explanation at all. I shouldn't have to listen to a supplementary radio show to understand why the hell they're suddenly acting so different) and the terrible, terrible Plasma arc. It was also just kind of boring, though it is a kids' show after all so I cant be too hard on it for that. Just because I find an episode about a bunch of Cottonee boring as tar doesn't mean that the kids it's aimed at will, which doesn't make it bad. Plus I thought some of the over-hype publicity stunts they pulled towards the second half of the saga weighed it down. "Dawn is back and we're suddenly all about referencing the past, but no old music allowed!!! Charizard is back for some reason!!!! Remember Butterfree and how sad its departure episode was? Well here's a hollow meaningless rehash!!! Team Rocket is totally leaving for good you guys, please watch our show!!!" It got tiring and it was obvious that at least some of the higher-ups weren't convinced the writing was good. On top of that the art was kind of flat and, while not as bad as Diamond&Pearl's, the bright colors and bland backgrounds really made me yearn for the days of cel animation.

But with all of these problems, I still only rank it as my second least-favorite. XY absolutely takes that spot. I've listed my complaints in various places but I'll go over them again:
  • Ash was boring as hell and I hated how he was idolized. It really added fuel to the fire of gross 20-somethings borderline crushing on a literal ten year old. I'm all for him being a competent battler who comes up with strategies and learns from his mistakes but when he won pretty much every battle and didn't have a long-running rival who was a threat to him it's kind of hard not to view him as bland.
  • Jumping off this, the "it's mega evolution but not really" Ash-Greninja was, in my opinion, the dumbest thing this franchise has ever done. Yes, even more than lobotomy Team Rocket. It came out of nowhere, plodded around for months, and had this terrible, super-stylized, too-hype-for-its-own-good, DBZ-style fusion animation that always took me out of the episode when watching. It's a Pokemon battle for christ's sake, why do we need to watch this 10 year old feel physical pain because his special-snowflake-once-in-a-lifetime friendship is just so intense you guys? It was ridiculous and should have at the very least been with Pikachu, a Pokemon we've actually, you know, seen Ash have a stronger-than-average bond with beforehand.
  • Serena should have been a boy, and yes that includes amourshipping
  • Speaking of amourshipping, yikes. Though I think the fandom ruined it for me
  • I've mentioned this in about 30 other threads but this was the series that locked Team Rocket's motto in stock animation hell. Yes it started midway through Best Wishes, and yes there were a few odball varieties thrown in, but I long for the days when this was possible. Shudo is rolling in his grave.
  • The XY group was the most boring in terms of dynamics (yes, even more boring than Tracey!), they might have been the most pleasant in the real world but there was no tension. The Korrina arc early on proved that there was nothing going on with them.
  • DoriDori was the only good long-running ending theme. And I really didn't like XY&Z or Mega V (Volt).
  • It had probably the three worst movies of the franchise. At the very least there was nothing interesting about them-- the OS and AG movies actually seemed like an emphasis was placed on the stories, the DP movies tried that trilogy thing, and the BW movies just seemed more....creative? But the XY ones just seemed to go through the motions.
  • This one isn't fair to the series but it's still worth mentioning, I think the fandom's over-hype killed it for me, at least after the fact. You'd think by the number of "Serena needs to return to Alola!!!!1" campaigns it was 2002 and Misty just left the show and that horrible bitch May stole her spotlight and how dare she, Pokeshipping forever. Or when Ash left Greninja behind like he has with literally every other Pokemon except Pikachu and everyone lost their damn minds because...reasons. Or when Ash lost the league like he has every single other time....you get my point. So many people claim XY was this action-packed series but it was your average Pokemon TV series in terms of action until the XYZ arc started, and even then we still had boring fillers-- I specifically remember the first few months of XYZ had people complaining about the high number of fillers.
  • And on a smaller note, it bothers me when people call it the "XYZ series" or claim XYZ is its own series in the same way Advanced Generation is a separate series from the original one. XYZ was just an arc and if any promo material was calling it a "new series" it was just a Best Wishes-style promo. It had the same art assets, cast, soundtrack, stock animation, and bumpers as XY and started midway through the story started in XY001. No one calls the entirety of Best Wishes "the Best Wishes! Season 2 Decolora Adventure" series, and no one thinks Episode N is its own series.

I didn't hate XY as a whole by any means but man Sun&Moon is super refreshing.
 
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I mean I outright said it wasn't fair to the series and it was 2 points out of 10, but yeah sure that's exactly what I said.

And just because it wouldnt be likely to happen doesn't mean it wouldn't be better if it did. And the amourshipping part would just be bonus. But there were plenty of other ways they could have improved it other than that.
 
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used Thunderhand!
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So, "XY is the worst series ever because it's fans are annoying"?
In a sense. This is DP all over again. Even the complaints directed to XY mirror the complaints directed to DP during the BW era, ironically enough, with both series being criticized for being way too dramatic and serious, for having a useless male third wheel, and for featuring a generic, shonen, overly heroic Ash.

But XY is getting some more flack now because forbid the writers from actually acknowledging Ash's bravery and skills as a veteran Trainer for once, especially after he has been chewed on throughout all BW!

I have nothing against people who dislike XY, though, because at the end of the day tastes are tastes, and they have all the rights to express their distaste toward that saga, just as I have all the rights to express my distaste toward BW (and SM), and I respect their opinions even if I don't necessarily agree with their criticism. I just find it interesting how the people who don't like a more "mature" plot are huge fans of the more comedic tones, and vice versa. It's almost like two sides of the same coin.

There are also people who like both sides and appreciate the anime in all its forms and versions, but they tend to be rarer.
 
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In a sense. This is DP all over again. Even the complaints directed to XY mirror the complaints directed to DP during the BW era, ironically enough, with both series being criticized for being way too dramatic and serious, for having a useless male third wheel, and for featuring a generic, shonen, overly heroic Ash.

But XY is getting some more flack now because forbid the writers from actually acknowledging Ash's bravery and skills as a veteran Trainer for once, especially after he has been chewed on throughout all BW!

I have nothing against people who dislike XY, though, because at the end of the day tastes are tastes, and they have all the rights to express their distaste toward that saga, just as I have all the rights to express my distaste toward BW (and SM), and I respect their opinions even if I don't necessarily agree with their criticism. I just find it interesting how the people who don't like a more "mature" plot are huge fans of the more comedic tones, and vice versa. It's almost like two sides of the same coin.

There are also people who like both sides and appreciate the anime in all its forms and versions, but they tend to be rarer.
So some people disliked DP and preferred the mess that was BW where Ash was regressed?
 
Dr. Fuji?!
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I don't prefer BW/SM to DP/XY; they all have obvious flaws and I don't find their highs to be very good. In contrast, OS has some genuinely good highs (in my opinion, obviously) despite all the lows, while AG is just average (neither overrated or underrated). But DP and XY are put on a pedestal by some fans and that is definitely annoying to see, as well as that cringeworthy interview with XY's director. Of course, DP has less flaws than XY does, but it is ridiculously long.

And for better or worse, at least SM makes it rather clear that OS Ash is long gone (as if he'd go to a school, lol) and any ending for him is really a matter of headcanon. Shudo's "it was all a fantastical exaggeration of a childhood adventure" is fairly good.
 
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So, "XY is the worst series ever because it's fans are annoying"?
To be fair, annoying fans can make a show worse for people, especially if they hear constant praise for the show and they already don't like it for various reasons. That can easily turn them off of the series even more. XY was pretty widely praised here, but there were people who didn't care for it during and after its run. I am a bit surprised that it is in second place on the poll though, even if it's still minor compared to the votes for BW,
 
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In a sense. This is DP all over again. Even the complaints directed to XY mirror the complaints directed to DP during the BW era, ironically enough, with both series being criticized for being way too dramatic and serious, for having a useless male third wheel, and for featuring a generic, shonen, overly heroic Ash.
I actually thought DP was one of the better series, though it will forever be tainted by my experience with the dub (which isn't fair to the series itself but it is what it is). I thought Ash was much more compelling in that series because he actually struggled and had a long-running rival who frequently challenged him. He wasn't constantly idolized by everyone, and the show didn't have to keep constantly telling us "he has a strong bond with this Pokemon" because it showed us. Plus there was a natural progression from Kanto > Johto > Hoenn > Sinnoh in terms of Ash's maturity and skill so I was less bothered by him being more serious whereas Unova > Kalos > Alola has been less steady. Basically in my opinion XY is Diamond&Pearl without the substance.

And as for appreciating both approaches this show takes, I actually really like Sun&Moon and I've always been a fan of the original series. In fact the only series I have significant complaints with are Best Wishes and XY which in my opinion are the worst attempts at each style so far.
 
My Blue Sweetheart
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I agree that fan attitude, while definitely not the sole or even biggest reason some people dislike XY, is part of it. I know that is one of the reasons I got further turned off from the series. I have my own problems with XY (as I already wrote in this thread) but I do find a majority of interactions I've had with the extreme XY fans to be negative. One of my personal pet peeves is people who disrespect the opinions of others and try to force their own, so I don't have the time or patience for that nonsense. It makes discussion more aggravating than interesting, and I do appreciate seeing and reading the varying opinions (so long as it isn't arrogant or forceful.)
 
Darth Ignis
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I voted for Black and White. The overall story of Black and White I enjoyed, but terrible character development and voice actors killed Black and White for me.

For me: DP>XY>AG>OS>BW

I think SM for me will end up placing between AG and BW.
 
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