Speculation Which will end up being the Best GEN VI game? (speculate!)

[Bolt Strike]

In my experience, subsequent playthroughs of XY only serve to highlight its flaws... the special sheen that it had on my first run-through has been thoroughly eroded by now. But broadly, I want to agree, and I already do cut XY a fair bit of slack. What bothers me is just that they seem to have developed several misguided ideals pertaining to game-making philosophy, whereas with Gens IV and V they were firing on all cylinders. If it were just XY, I could forgive it. But ORAS was struck by the same questionable logic, in its own ways... it doesn't really inspire hope. I am trying to keep an open mind about Z, though.

I wouldn't say they were "firing on all cylinders" with 5th gen, several of Game Freak's current problems started in that generation, that's when they started decreasing the difficulty and simplifying everything for a more casual audience and stripping away useful features from the games (people give 5th gen too much credit, it did several things to shake up the formula but it was a step backwards in a lot of areas). 6th gen only brought them further in that direction because of the rise of mobile.

 

[Boss1708]

And about no trainer customisation, I think generally its an ok improvement, but it would have made no sense to have it in a remake. It would almost be considered an offense by most Gen 3 fans like myself.

The "It's a remake, it wouldn't make sense to include it" logic doesn't make sense. Because then why were Super Training and Pokémon-Amie were included? Why was Mega Evolution included? Horde Battles? The purpose of a remake is to update the old games to the modern standard. If we can have those Gen VI features included in ORAS without it seeming "offensive" (which is an absurdly extreme reaction to an optional feature), then why can we arbitrarily not have customization?

Remake aside, I just hope they dont get away customization in the next generations. GF are triyng to make it a feature unique to generetion 6, different from mega evolutions that will be added in every game because it's a new mechanic.

But i think it's a dumb thing exclude customization of standard games. The same is for challange mode, gym rematches and Pokemom Amie.

Wait... So amie could be removed too? Lol I thought it was going to be a permanent thing.

 

[Esserise]

1. What do you mean by misguided ideals about game making philosophy? Explain pls.

Basically the same stuff that's been going around in discussion lately. Catering to the mobile market, lazy decisions, barely updating ORAS in terms of Pokémon selection, region design, and mechanics (HMs are required in full force again after BW and XY finally got around to cutting them down, Poké Marts are separated from Pokémon Centers again for no reason other than nostalgia). I can understand giving players time-saving options like the Exp. Share and O-Powers. That's fine. But logically, if somebody is going to shell out $150+ for a 3DS and then a further $40 for a game, then I don't see how they can think that people aren't going to find time to play it.

Remake aside, I just hope they dont get away customization in the next generations. GF are triyng to make it a feature unique to generetion 6, different from mega evolutions that will be added in every game because it's a new mechanic.

But i think it's a dumb thing exclude customization of standard games. The same is for challange mode, gym rematches and Pokemom Amie.

Agreed. They gave is the "regional identity" excuse, but that didn't stop Sinnoh from retaining Contests and Secret Bases.

I wouldn't say they were "firing on all cylinders" with 5th gen, several of Game Freak's current problems started in that generation, that's when they started decreasing the difficulty and simplifying everything for a more casual audience and stripping away useful features from the games. 6th gen only brought them further in that direction because of the rise of mobile.

I do see your point, but personally, I saw a lot of BW's simplification and streamlining to be, well, maybe not "necessary," but appreciable junk-cutting. XY and ORAS have taken that somewhat to excess. With BW, I felt that they were still making games that were worth playing for the sheer enjoyment factor. XY/ORAS want me to rush through the game so that I can start playing competitive as soon as possible, which is a problem for a non-casual/non-competitive player such as myself... now, I may be in the minority on that, but they were always able to accommodate the minority before.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I do see your point, but personally, I saw a lot of BW's simplification and streamlining to be, well, maybe not "necessary," but appreciable junk-cutting. XY and ORAS have taken that somewhat to excess. With BW, I felt that they were still making games that were worth playing for the sheer enjoyment factor. XY/ORAS want me to rush through the game so that I can start playing competitive as soon as possible, which is a problem for a non-casual/non-competitive player such as myself... now, I may be in the minority on that, but they were always able to accommodate the minority before.

I don't think Pokemon really needed much streamlining in the first place, there wasn't a whole lot in the games at that point that you could point to and call it junk and most of 5th gen's cuts removed content or useful features from the games instead of optimizing the gameplay. The only good thing IMO was simplifying the HMs, and even then, their solution only works as a temporary band-aid solution that fails to address the real issue (that you're being forced to sacrifice battle capability to explore the overworld).

 

[Pandora]

And about no trainer customisation, I think generally its an ok improvement, but it would have made no sense to have it in a remake. It would almost be considered an offense by most Gen 3 fans like myself.

The "It's a remake, it wouldn't make sense to include it" logic doesn't make sense. Because then why were Super Training and Pokémon-Amie were included? Why was Mega Evolution included? Horde Battles? The purpose of a remake is to update the old games to the modern standard. If we can have those Gen VI features included in ORAS without it seeming "offensive" (which is an absurdly extreme reaction to an optional feature), then why can we arbitrarily not have customization?

Remake aside, I just hope they dont get away customization in the next generations. GF are triyng to make it a feature unique to generetion 6, different from mega evolutions that will be added in every game because it's a new mechanic.

But i think it's a dumb thing exclude customization of standard games. The same is for challange mode, gym rematches and Pokemom Amie.

Wait... So amie could be removed too? Lol I thought it was going to be a permanent thing.

No, you are right. Amie was in hoenn so probably will not be removed.
At least i hope it turn in a permanent feature. They dont hav any excuse to exclude it.

 

[Boss1708]

And about no trainer customisation, I think generally its an ok improvement, but it would have made no sense to have it in a remake. It would almost be considered an offense by most Gen 3 fans like myself.

The "It's a remake, it wouldn't make sense to include it" logic doesn't make sense. Because then why were Super Training and Pokémon-Amie were included? Why was Mega Evolution included? Horde Battles? The purpose of a remake is to update the old games to the modern standard. If we can have those Gen VI features included in ORAS without it seeming "offensive" (which is an absurdly extreme reaction to an optional feature), then why can we arbitrarily not have customization?

Remake aside, I just hope they dont get away customization in the next generations. GF are triyng to make it a feature unique to generetion 6, different from mega evolutions that will be added in every game because it's a new mechanic.

But i think it's a dumb thing exclude customization of standard games. The same is for challange mode, gym rematches and Pokemom Amie.

Wait... So amie could be removed too? Lol I thought it was going to be a permanent thing.

No, you are right. Amie was in hoenn so probably will not be removed.
At least i hope it turn in a permanent feature. They dont hav any excuse to exclude it.

Yes, exactly, they kept Amie cause they are keeping it, but then, is this a hint that custmisation will stay Kalos exclusive?

 

[The Infidel]

I think they got rid of customisation because it wasn't in the originals. For example in FRLG you couldnt plant berries but you could again in gen 4.

Personally I think the next games may be the best in the gen, because they are the final installment, and are likely to feel more complete and have the best features, as well as all megas and possibly even some thing like the BF.

However, I was really pleased with ORAS, i was not a fan of the original ruby/sapphire, but ORAS were really great games. For me, they beat XY by miles.

 

[Boss1708]

I think they got rid of customisation because it wasn't in the originals. For example in FRLG you couldnt plant berries but you could again in gen 4.

Personally I think the next games may be the best in the gen, because they are the final installment, and are likely to feel more complete and have the best features, as well as all megas and possibly even some thing like the BF.

However, I was really pleased with ORAS, i was not a fan of the original ruby/sapphire, but ORAS were really great games. For me, they beat XY by miles.

I know what you mean, but las games of a generation doesn´t necessarily mean best games of the generation: Emerald were better than FRLG although it was FRLG who closed gen 3. HGSS and Platinum are probably a draw (judging by the amount of content each game had). It is important to note however, that it´s the first time ever that a remake (ORAS) comes in the middle of a Generation, since FRLG and HGSS both came AFTER then the Hoenn and Shinnoh third games. Not sure if this implies something about ORAS andthenext games or not.

 

[The Infidel]

I think they got rid of customisation because it wasn't in the originals. For example in FRLG you couldnt plant berries but you could again in gen 4.

Personally I think the next games may be the best in the gen, because they are the final installment, and are likely to feel more complete and have the best features, as well as all megas and possibly even some thing like the BF.

However, I was really pleased with ORAS, i was not a fan of the original ruby/sapphire, but ORAS were really great games. For me, they beat XY by miles.

I know what you mean, but las games of a generation doesn´t necessarily mean best games of the generation: Emerald were better than FRLG although it was FRLG who closed gen 3. HGSS and Platinum are probably a draw (judging by the amount of content each game had).

Actually Emerald closed Gen 3 not FRLG. Personally loved HGSS and Platinum but think HGSS had a slight edge.

 

[Boss1708]

I think they got rid of customisation because it wasn't in the originals. For example in FRLG you couldnt plant berries but you could again in gen 4.

Personally I think the next games may be the best in the gen, because they are the final installment, and are likely to feel more complete and have the best features, as well as all megas and possibly even some thing like the BF.

However, I was really pleased with ORAS, i was not a fan of the original ruby/sapphire, but ORAS were really great games. For me, they beat XY by miles.

I know what you mean, but las games of a generation doesn´t necessarily mean best games of the generation: Emerald were better than FRLG although it was FRLG who closed gen 3. HGSS and Platinum are probably a draw (judging by the amount of content each game had).

Actually Emerald closed Gen 3 not FRLG. Personally loved HGSS and Platinum but think HGSS had a slight edge.

Yeah, you are right... I allways get confused whether FRLG came out 2004 or 2006...

 

[Esserise]

Actually Emerald closed Gen 3 not FRLG. Personally loved HGSS and Platinum but think HGSS had a slight edge.

It's hard for me to choose between Platinum and HGSS. HGSS had a ton more content and sharper aesthetics (I do miss the ambient sounds, like when you would stand next to a shoreline and the area theme would lower in volume a bit so that you could hear the waves), but the level curve was disastrous, and I hate that they restricted the Move Tutors to BP exchange. The Safari Zone, while innovative and certainly superior to the Not-So-Great Marsh, had some downright absurd requirements for some Pokémon. And I was never too big on the Walking Pokémon feature; it's nice, but I don't really care about it. Whereas Platinum had a more involved storyline (while it isn't my favorite, credit where credit is due) and more enjoyable minigames (in my opinion; I loved the Underground, whereas I hardly ever touched the Pokéathlon). The shard-based Move Tutors are much appreciated, and I like Sinnoh more than I like Johto and Kanto, and the bag isn't a mess like it was in HGSS. The Pokétch is also handier than the Pokégear. But both games have an awful Pokémon selection. So it is as if these two are split completely down the middle for me.

Gen III is easy for me. FRLG over Emerald, all the way. The Sevii Islands were a lot more fun to me than the Battle Frontier was, and I was never really a fan of Gen III Hoenn in the first place, in terms of design, or storyline, or anything. Kanto, I find, was a lot more balanced.

As it stands as far as Gen VI is concerned, I think that ORAS just slightly holds the edge over XY, but it is close to being another "split down the middle" deal. ORAS has the better storyline and the better postgame, and the better aesthetics (and Trainer rematches and actual Elite Four upgrades; I mean come on, Game Freak), while XY have a much, much better Pokémon selection. The regions are a tie for me (Hoenn is just a bit better, but I don't really love either one of them), and Secret Bases are matched by Trainer customization. And then the Delta Episode is matched by the Looker Bureau since I loved both.

If Z can strike a balance between the two, then I bet it will win out as my favorite.

 

[Bolt Strike]

It's hard for me to choose between Platinum and HGSS. HGSS had a ton more content and sharper aesthetics (I do miss the ambient sounds, like when you would stand next to a shoreline and the area theme would lower in volume a bit so that you could hear the waves), but the level curve was disastrous, and I hate that they restricted the Move Tutors to BP exchange. The Safari Zone, while innovative and certainly superior to the Not-So-Great Marsh, had some downright absurd requirements for some Pokémon. And I was never too big on the Walking Pokémon feature; it's nice, but I don't really care about it. Whereas Platinum had a more involved storyline (while it isn't my favorite, credit where credit is due) and more enjoyable minigames (in my opinion; I loved the Underground, whereas I hardly ever touched the Pokéathlon). The shard-based Move Tutors are much appreciated, and I like Sinnoh more than I like Johto and Kanto, and the bag isn't a mess like it was in HGSS. The Pokétch is also handier than the Pokégear. But both games have an awful Pokémon selection. So it is as if these two are split completely down the middle for me.

In terms of number of areas, maybe HGSS has more content, but as far as extra features, HGSS didn't have quite as much as Platinum. I'm definitely satisfied with both in terms of content and I think they're quite close, but I think Platinum is a more complete and well designed game.

 

[Boss1708]

Actually Emerald closed Gen 3 not FRLG. Personally loved HGSS and Platinum but think HGSS had a slight edge.

It's hard for me to choose between Platinum and HGSS. HGSS had a ton more content and sharper aesthetics (I do miss the ambient sounds, like when you would stand next to a shoreline and the area theme would lower in volume a bit so that you could hear the waves), but the level curve was disastrous, and I hate that they restricted the Move Tutors to BP exchange. The Safari Zone, while innovative and certainly superior to the Not-So-Great Marsh, had some downright absurd requirements for some Pokémon. And I was never too big on the Walking Pokémon feature; it's nice, but I don't really care about it. Whereas Platinum had a more involved storyline (while it isn't my favorite, credit where credit is due) and more enjoyable minigames (in my opinion; I loved the Underground, whereas I hardly ever touched the Pokéathlon). The shard-based Move Tutors are much appreciated, and I like Sinnoh more than I like Johto and Kanto, and the bag isn't a mess like it was in HGSS. The Pokétch is also handier than the Pokégear. But both games have an awful Pokémon selection. So it is as if these two are split completely down the middle for me.

Gen III is easy for me. FRLG over Emerald, all the way. The Sevii Islands were a lot more fun to me than the Battle Frontier was, and I was never really a fan of Gen III Hoenn in the first place, in terms of design, or storyline, or anything. Kanto, I find, was a lot more balanced.

As it stands as far as Gen VI is concerned, I think that ORAS just slightly holds the edge over XY, but it is close to being another "split down the middle" deal. ORAS has the better storyline and the better postgame, and the better aesthetics (and Trainer rematches and actual Elite Four upgrades; I mean come on, Game Freak), while XY have a much, much better Pokémon selection. The regions are a tie for me (Hoenn is just a bit better, but I don't really love either one of them), and Secret Bases are matched by Trainer customization. And then the Delta Episode is matched by the Looker Bureau since I loved both.

If Z can strike a balance between the two, then I bet it will win out as my favorite.

I think that the fact you can not only decorate your base like in gen III, but actually TURN it into a freakin GYM, really beats Kalos' trainer customizing by a mile. I mean, come on, what Pokemon fan hasnt imagined having his own gym? Its the best feature ever. Or it would have been, if they gave it more attention, both by advertising and ingame. Again, ORAS sells its few errors more than it's many successes.

But still, the fact that you can have a gym leader sign saying " X's gym" and even get THE GYM THEME MUSIC in your secret base, make it up for me. If only you could have recieved challengers in-game, say, once a day, and award them your own gym badge, would have been the perfect feature.

 

[Esserise]

I think that the fact you can not only decorate your base like in gen III, but actually TURN it into a freakin GYM, really beats Kalos' trainer customizing by a mile. I mean, come on, what Pokemon fan hasnt imagined having his own gym? Its the best feature ever. Or it would have been, if they gave it more attention, both by advertising and ingame. Again, ORAS sells its few errors more than it's many successes.

But still, the fact that you can have a gym leader sign saying " X's gym" and even get THE GYM THEME MUSIC in your secret base, make it up for me. If only you could have recieved challengers in-game, say, once a day, and award them your own gym badge, would have been the perfect feature.

I suppose by sheer random chance, I am one of the few fans who never had any desire whatsoever to have my own Gym. I can appreciate what it means to others, and I do think that it was a creative way to include it. It's just not for me.

 

[Boss1708]

I think that the fact you can not only decorate your base like in gen III, but actually TURN it into a freakin GYM, really beats Kalos' trainer customizing by a mile. I mean, come on, what Pokemon fan hasnt imagined having his own gym? Its the best feature ever. Or it would have been, if they gave it more attention, both by advertising and ingame. Again, ORAS sells its few errors more than it's many successes.

But still, the fact that you can have a gym leader sign saying " X's gym" and even get THE GYM THEME MUSIC in your secret base, make it up for me. If only you could have recieved challengers in-game, say, once a day, and award them your own gym badge, would have been the perfect feature.

I suppose by sheer random chance, I am one of the few fans who never had any desire whatsoever to have my own Gym. I can appreciate what it means to others, and I do think that it was a creative way to include it. It's just not for me.

Ok LOL

 

[Bolt Strike]

The only reason I'd want to make a gym is for the puzzles, and because you can't really do puzzles in Secret Bases very well, it's not that interesting to me.

 

[Boss1708]

The only reason I'd want to make a gym is for the puzzles, and because you can't really do puzzles in Secret Bases very well, it's not that interesting to me.

Actually I´ve seen some good puzzles in Secret Bases. It´s just you need to collect a lot of flags for a better purchase selection. Like some gym stuff becomes available, etc.

 

[shinyturtwig]

I really hope Z will be the best Gen 6 game, as it seems to be taking the longest. However, OR/AS and X/Y were pretty good games themselves. One way to insure that Z will be the best game is to have a lot of post game content, something the previous Gen 6 games lacked.

 

[Isaac Gravity]

Hrm... A bit too soon to make such a call and even then, being considered the "best of the gen" is pretty subjective.

EX: Emerald was hands down the best single-player experience one could hope for in a Pokemon game at that time but some would still argue for FR/LG's superiority. HGSS is praised to hell and back despite fixing NONE of GSCs core problems and only lightly padded what could have been Johto-centric potential I'd rather (and still every now and then) poke around Platinum despite its problems since its post-post game was downright fantastic.

 

[Boss1708]

Hrm... A bit too soon to make such a call and even then, being considered the "best of the gen" is pretty subjective.

EX: Emerald was hands down the best single-player experience one could hope for in a Pokemon game at that time but some would still argue for FR/LG's superiority. HGSS is praised to hell and back despite fixing NONE of GSCs core problems and only lightly padded what could have been Johto-centric potential I'd rather (and still every now and then) poke around Platinum despite its problems since its post-post game was downright fantastic.

I know what you mean, but a game with no replayability cant really match a game with replay value. Yes, FR/LG probably matches Emerald game wise, bot postgame wise Emerald destroys FR LG. So yeah, BF really makes the difference. I know Sevii Islands is a nice postgame, however still not replayable.