Who's the worst of Ash's Fire Starters' previous owners?

[owenpeterson]

I seem to be noticing a pattern with all 4 of Ash's fire starter Pokemon. Each of them was once owned by or got involved with some guy who acts like a complete asshole. Either by abandoning the pokemon because it was labeled as weak, or would use extreme measures to capture it. Thus this would result in Ash feuding with the individual over the way the Pokemon is treated before Ash obtained it himself.

Here are the 4 perpetrators:

Damien - Charmander's first trainer. Abandoned for being labeled weak. I already commented on how this effected Charmander in the long run.

Koji - Although he didn't actually own Cyndaquil he certainly would have treated it just the way Damien did with Charmander if he had as we saw with the way he treats his Sandslash, which is why he is on this list. He even challenged Ash for it even after Ash had caught it for himself after it saved him from the TRio.

Paul - Chimchar's first trainer. He constantly abused it and was very inconsiderate of it's health and had all it's other Pokemon attack it.

Shamus - Tepig's first trainer. He tied it to a post and abandoned it for losing a battle.

Based on what I have been led to believe, All four of these douchebags should have their Pokemon training licenses revoked. But I would like to know who you think is the guiltiest and most despicable of these four?

 

[Jon_14]

Hmmm....probably Damien for me. Despite me not really enjoying the Pokemon anime that much that was a damn good episode imo. It's a shame that it affected Charmander along the line though(granted Ash didn't help, but let's not get into that here xp).

 

[Farfetchd the Vigilante]

Damien almost killed​ Charmander. That's pretty bad.

 

[Lugia trainer]

Paul. Need I say more?

 

[TPrower]

Damien, Paul, and Shamus all have reasons for being the worst. Damien lied to Charmander about coming back for it, then left it to die out in the wilderness. Paul put Chimchar through an extreme amount of abuse to try and harness its hidden potential, sicced his stronger Pokemon on it to 'train' it, and then dumped it when it doesn't meet his expectations. Shamus tied Tepig up and left it to starve. It's hard to choose one, but Paul is easier to hate since we get to see more of his cruelty throughout the show, whereas Damien and Shamus were one-offs. Then again, those two left deep emotional scars in their Pokemon (Charmander's eventual disobedience after evolving and Tepig's eagerness to please Ash, as though afraid he'll abandon it like Shamus did).

 

[Alpha71689]

Damien was. He abandoned Charmander, and even bragged about it, IIRC. Despite Charmander fighting the elements, he didn't care. That's pretty low, if you ask me.

 

[Solayoh]

Damien nearly killed Charmander, and seriously did things to it mentally hence why it went a bit crazy.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Koji was more like a jerk than anything else. He didn't do anything to hurt Cynadquil. He was just willing to get it no matter what. I'm not sure if he would have been abusive based on what we saw, but he would have been a jerk towards it had he been able to capture Cyndaquil.

I think it's a three-way tie between Damien, Paul and Shamus. Damien not only abandoned Charmander where it could have died, but proceeded to laugh about it when he told his friends about it. That's just low. Paul was more about physically and emotionally abusing Chimchar through the tough training, unwilling to let it rest, not praising for any accomplishment it made and abandoned it after giving up on it in the middle of a battle. That's honestly really horrible. Shamus tied up Tepig after it lost a battle, which could have made it starve to death. While Damien and Shamus were the ones who put their Pokemon in life-threatening danger, the psychological damage Chimchar obtained as a result of being emotionally and physically abused really terrible to the point where I can't really choose between the three of them, especially when we saw more of Paul and saw how he treated his other Pokemon pretty coldly as well.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

Its kinda tough for me, but I wanna say Paul because of the impact he had on me. I was pretty disgusted with how Damien and Shamus left Charmander and Tepig out to die, but Paul takes the cake for me for a few reasons.

Paul's abuse with Chimchar had a longer lasting effect because unlike Damien and Shamus, this didn't happen over the course of one episode. Paul was Ash's main rival through Sinnoh and we would constantly see this purple haired jerk mistreating the poor fire monkey. Every time he was on screen with Chimchar, he would insult him in such a harsh manner. "YOU'RE PATHETIC!" or "YOU OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!" is what we'd hear.He never once praised him for his accomplishment and he would even scold Chimchar for CELEBRATING A VICTORY. He treated him with such impatience that it was ridiculous. He would even physically abuse him by putting him through unorthodox and cruel training methods until Chimchar would faint. He even ignored Nurse Joy's pleas to not let Chimchar battle after doing this. We watched even as Paul took the award for "Biggest Dick In Sinnoh" as he released Chimchar at the end of Glory Blaze in the harshest way possible. It was that moment when I wanted nothing more than to punch Paul in the face. It was a heartbreaking scene as we watched Chimchar plead to not be released. Paul only continued to criticize him until he began to walk away on the verge of tears. Thank Helix though that Ash had the heart to offer to be Chimchar's new trainer. The damage he done to Chimchar traumatized him so much that Tears For Fears showed us just how much of an impact Paul had on him. I think Paul had a much deeper impact than Damien and Shamus did, though don't get me wrong, they were pretty sick individuals also. Paul just takes the cake because they built him up even more to be a cold hearted trainer.

 

[Legacy]

All 3 were bad. Damien was the worst, IMO. Paul didn't leave Chimchar for dead like Damien did.

 

[TrainerRyan]

Its kinda tough for me, but I wanna say Paul because of the impact he had on me. I was pretty disgusted with how Damien and Shamus left Charmander and Tepig out to die, but Paul takes the cake for me for a few reasons.

Paul's abuse with Chimchar had a longer lasting effect because unlike Damien and Shamus, this didn't happen over the course of one episode. Paul was Ash's main rival through Sinnoh and we would constantly see this purple haired jerk mistreating the poor fire monkey. Every time he was on screen with Chimchar, he would insult him in such a harsh manner. "YOU'RE PATHETIC!" or "YOU OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!" is what we'd hear.He never once praised him for his accomplishment and he would even scold Chimchar for CELEBRATING A VICTORY. He treated him with such impatience that it was ridiculous. He would even physically abuse him by putting him through unorthodox and cruel training methods until Chimchar would faint. He even ignored Nurse Joy's pleas to not let Chimchar battle after doing this. We watched even as Paul took the award for "Biggest Dick In Sinnoh" as he released Chimchar at the end of Glory Blaze in the harshest way possible. It was that moment when I wanted nothing more than to punch Paul in the face. It was a heartbreaking scene as we watched Chimchar plead to not be released. Paul only continued to criticize him until he began to walk away on the verge of tears. Thank Helix though that Ash had the heart to offer to be Chimchar's new trainer. The damage he done to Chimchar traumatized him so much that Tears For Fears showed us just how much of an impact Paul had on him. I think Paul had a much deeper impact than Damien and Shamus did, though don't get me wrong, they were pretty sick individuals also. Paul just takes the cake because they built him up even more to be a cold hearted trainer.

It's probably because we Know more about Paul. True those other guys are clearly Huge Dicks but we only saw them for 1 episode each, with Paul we seen him in several Episodes and we saw how deep is Dickisness is.

 

[Shadao]

I say Damien is the worst merely because he did something the others haven't done: Ordering his Charmander to remain at an wide open rock outcrop (as opposed to a cave or a shelter to stay out of the rain) and lying that he would return for him. Paul was brutal and a jerk, but he is an honest person when it came to his opinions and decisions. Shamus too is honest to his Tepig when he abandoned him. Whereas Tepig's starvation situation can be seen as unintentional consequence on Shamus's part (as Don George would have provide Tepig food and shelter when he was trying to untie him), Damien deliberately left Charmander in the wilderness alone with no nearby human contact, not even bothering to leave him at the Pokémon Center. He gave no concern about Charmander's well-being when it was raining outside, and laughed along with friends about the possibility of Charmander's flame going out.

 

[garrison-san]

I'm inclined to agree with the above. Not to defend Shamus, but I doubt that killing Tepig via starvation was ever a conscious part of his agenda. He tethered Tepig to prevent it from following him, and while he clearly had no regard for the potential consequences, I don't believe that he intentionally set Tepig up to starve to death. Damien not only openly acknowledged the likelihood that Charmander would waste away in waiting for him to return, but seemed to derive amusement from the thought. Ergo I'd consider him to be somewhat worse.

 

[CynthiaLover]

Hmm... tough call. It's pretty well stuck as a three-way tie, but in the end, I'd say Damian was the worst.

While we've seen Paul's cruelty more than once, he was Ash's main rival, so it's only natural he'd get more time in the limelight. I'm not denying the physical and emotional abuse Chimchar went through, believe me, but since Paul was fairly frequent, and he treated almost all his Pokemon (bar Torterra and, to a lesser degree, Electivire) with harsh words and disrespect, so it's just part of who he was. At least with Chimchar, Paul didn't leave it to die. He abused it, yes, and cared little for its health, but he didn't leave it to die.

Koji doesn't really count to me, as he didn't even own Cyndaquil, and we don't know much else about him. He probably would've abused it, but since he never even caught Cyndaquil in the first place, I don't see him as part of this equation.

Shamus was pretty nasty about abandoning Tepig, but he didn't intentionally put Tepig's life in danger. Don George was going to untie Tepig, but Tepig broke free and got the rope stuck around its mouth. That was more of an indirect consequence of abandonment, not intentional. So even though Shamus was horrid, the consequences were unintentional, not deliberate.

Damian, on the other hand, was the worst. He ordered Charmander to stay, "promised" he'd come back for it, and left it to die in the rain. He even bragged about the whole incident. While Paul is the easiest to hate, at least he was honest and never bragged about it. Damian couldn't care less if Charmander died or not, and the hidden emotional turmoil affected Charmander the worst, creating Charmeleon's and Charizard's disobedience and attitudes. It took nearly dying a second time and Ash's dedication for Charizard to shake off the poisonous aftereffects of Damian's abuse, and become the flaming powerhouse that it is today.

While both Chimchar and Charizard were "damaged" the worst, Charizard's problem lasted for a very long time, spanning most of the OS, affecting its performance more than once, while Chimchar eventually shed its past and started life anew more quickly. So I'd have to say Damian.

 

[garrison-san]

Damien may have gotten my vote, but I question whether he can actually be held accountable for Charizard's later disobedience issues. It is a popular fan theory, but if it was what the writers themselves were going for then I think that a more explicit connection would've been made at some point. IMO, Charizard's personality flaws had less to do with Damien than they did a simple plot contrivance.

Paul's draconian training methods aside, he is the only one of these candidates who was a recurring character as opposed to a one-off plot device, and as such he was allowed to show the occasional redeeming quality. Brutal, but slightly better-rounded.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

Paul's abuse was mostly emotional the physical was only overexertion of basic acceptable stuff which is bad but it's nothing it couldn't handle. Damien did purposely put Charmander in real danger and laughed about it. Paul while he didn't feel bad for what he did (at least not immediately) he was at least upset that things didn't work out between him and Chimchar. Paul wasn't sadistic he just felt compelled to do what he did for God knows why.

 

[weeaboo_girl84]

They were all amazing people.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Damien may have gotten my vote, but I question whether he can actually be held accountable for Charizard's later disobedience issues. It is a popular fan theory, but if it was what the writers themselves were going for then I think that a more explicit connection would've been made at some point. IMO, Charizard's personality flaws had less to do with Damien than they did a simple plot contrivance.

Yeah, I've never really bought the idea that Damien's treatment contributed to Charizard's disobedience. It would make sense, but unlike say Chimchar's emotional abuse from Paul, Charmander being put in life threatening danger by the first trainer it was loyal too didn't really come up again after his initial capture episode. It was pretty happy and friendly with Ash. Even Tepig had more obvious signs of emotional damage from Shamus abandoning it with looking depressed after some of its defeats and wanting to prove itself when Ash battled against Shamus. I don't think that's what they were going with for Charizard since I think that they would have made the connection clearer. It seemed more like Charizard just had an attitude problem with not respecting Ash. If the original series had better writing, they probably would have shown Charmander carrying some damage from Damien's treatment before evolving into Charmeleon to build up to it not listening to Ash.

 

[majormanafemale]

Daimen was by far the worst he left a young charmander out in the rain planning to abandon it. If was for Ash and friends poor thing would have you know. While Paul may be bit strict and weird he was.simply releasing it which is better then boxing it in my opinion. Of course Ash didn't like it. Chimchar was upset but seemed old enough to get it as much as other pokémon get it.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Daimen was by far the worst he left a young charmander out in the rain planning to abandon it. If was for Ash and friends poor thing would have you know. While Paul may be bit strict and weird he was.simply releasing it which is better then boxing it in my opinion. Of course Ash didn't like it. Chimchar was upset but seemed old enough to get it as much as other pokémon get it.

Charmander didn't look young to me. It was just too loyal and naive to see that Daimen was using a fake promise to abandon it. Paul abandoned Chimchar with a much more direct approach. In the context of the anime, there isn't anything like boxing Pokemon away, at least like what we have in the games. If Paul was going to just not use Chimchar anymore, he could have just left it at his brother's, which was Paul's equivalent to Ash leaving his Pokemon at Professor Oak's lab, or gave it to another trainer like he did with that Azumaril after defeating Rorak. Both are still kind of harsh, but an improvement over simply releasing a Pokemon, especially just giving a Pokemon away. Plus, Chimchar was released after a lot of emotional damaged had been done and Paul gave up on it in the middle of a battle, despite all of their hard training. It was still terrible and cruel.