SwSh Why are people saying the graphics are "bad"?

[Ambrose7]

Honestly, looking at this just pisses me off. You mean to tell me, Game Freak isn't capable of this? You mean to tell me to expect what I'm seeing a damn mobile bootleg accomplish isn't what fans should expect in the actual main series? Yes yes, but...but... every Pokaman wasn't animated... And? Money & resources to whoever the hell is doing that animation solves that issue. Then again, perhaps it's the fact that they don't have those things which makes their effort so good.

As far as I'm concerned there are no more excuses to be made. Take out every single "wow factor" gamplay mechanic if it means the quality jumps to that level. Better yet, outsource the the coding already to the average hacker/modder on the damn street who all seem to be more competent. Good Arceus, Gen 8 needs to be a wake up call.

The Chinese game in question has only 1 unique move per pokemon. Every pokemon can perform only 2 moves out of which 1 is unique to the pokemon and the other a generic one. It sounds neat and all until you realize there are only 60 pokemon in the game and about 100 moves. And that the Chinese game apparently ripped off some fan made stuff. I'm not saying we shouldn't want or expect this from GF but we should also realize this is not possible if the games continue to be a yearly release and has all the pokemon present in them. A pokemon game with animation like this for 1000 models will require years of time and effort which the series, unfortunately, is not in a position to give. I doubt the majority of the fanbase (especially the kids) will wait 3 years for a game. So I won't be expecting a game with animations such as those for a while. I will say that they could work on making some of the animations better though. And fix the low resolution and textures. (Which has anybody noticed is largely restricted to the Wild Area?)

 

[Stratelier]

Apparently according to a Famitsu interview, Game Freak tried to but couldn't just copy the 3DS models and had to rebuild all the models from scratch...

Aren't proprietary development tools FUN?

Spoiler: a tangent

Remember, the first developmental roadblock that hit Duke Nukem Forever was when they switched game engines and discovered that they couldn't import ANY of their old assets into the new engine.

 

[Oriden]

Honestly, looking at this just pisses me off. You mean to tell me, Game Freak isn't capable of this? You mean to tell me to expect what I'm seeing a damn mobile bootleg accomplish isn't what fans should expect in the actual main series? Yes yes, but...but... every Pokaman wasn't animated... And? Money & resources to whoever the hell is doing that animation solves that issue. Then again, perhaps it's the fact that they don't have those things which makes their effort so good.

As far as I'm concerned there are no more excuses to be made. Take out every single "wow factor" gamplay mechanic if it means the quality jumps to that level. Better yet, outsource the the coding already to the average hacker/modder on the damn street who all seem to be more competent. Good Arceus, Gen 8 needs to be a wake up call.

I think the math makes it way less infuriating- ~60 models with only one unique move animation each... while Game Freak has 800+ models and animations compatible with 700+ different moves. The bootleg might look good, but those animations are really just lesser versions of pokemon-specific z-moves if you really think about it.

 

[Scruffyjay]

That bootleg mobile game literally stole animations/models from Pokken and also non-pokemon games...


View: https://twitter.com/Lewchube/status/1150135179886956544


I thought people would have said that here by now but maybe I missed it.

(Also idk if Pokken is actually by GameFreak as the tweet states, I'm pretty sure it's by Bandai but the point stands)

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I suspected the animations might be stolen... I never really thought that the bootleg was an apt comparison to seriously argue with since too many factors went unregulated there.

But that doesn’t really mean that GameFreak should make inferior animations. I'm not asking for every move to have a unique animation, but instead of simple physical/special animations, have a few more categories like jaw, claw, kick and rush animations. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for. The physical moves should at least look like they’re hitting they’re mark.

Another basic demand is that Pokémon actually attack out of the right areas. Charizard performs max flare using its shoulder. Blastoise doesn’t use it’s cannons. Is it too much to ask for? Just define a point on the Pokémon's model for the move to execute from. I've read that head tracking is already being done for the Dynamax clouds,
Proper tracking for poop clouds but not actual moves?

No one is (I think) seriously asking for every move having a unique animation for every Pokemon. People defending GameFreak like to go to the 'animation for every move/Pokémon combo' extreme to argue, which isn’t representative of the vast majority of people not pleased with GameFreak's animation and decisions.

 

[Desdar300]

TPC released a new Ga-ole trailer
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu4PMlcUzCM&t=127s

 

[Almonds]

TPC released a new Ga-ole trailer
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu4PMlcUzCM&t=127s

Is it a mobile game?

Also, love the way Jirachi uses Doom Desire.



EDIT: took a quick look at the official site and it seems to be a combination of mobile and arcade.

 

[Desdar300]

Is it a mobile game?

Also, love the way Jirachi uses Doom Desire.

Nope this an arcade game of sorts

 

[Oriden]

I suspected the animations might be stolen... I never really thought that the bootleg was an apt comparison to seriously argue with since too many factors went unregulated there.

But that doesn’t really mean that GameFreak should make inferior animations. I'm not asking for every move to have a unique animation, but instead of simple physical/special animations, have a few more categories like jaw, claw, kick and rush animations. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for. The physical moves should at least look like they’re hitting they’re mark.

Another basic demand is that Pokémon actually attack out of the right areas. Charizard performs max flare using its shoulder. Blastoise doesn’t use it’s cannons. Is it too much to ask for? Just define a point on the Pokémon's model for the move to execute from. I've read that head tracking is already being done for the Dynamax clouds,
Proper tracking for poop clouds but not actual moves?

No one is (I think) seriously asking for every move having a unique animation for every Pokemon. People defending GameFreak like to go to the 'animation for every move/Pokémon combo' extreme to argue, which isn’t representative of the vast majority of people not pleased with GameFreak's animation and decisions.

Well, I think even people attacking GameFreak kind of go to an extreme by implying that they should do particularly elaborate attack animations such as those in that bootleg, over just making some reasonable changes like the ones you suggested. Personally, I was just pointing out that those elaborate sort of attacks would be unreasonable given the actual numbers, and given that each pokemon in the bootleg has just one unique move, GameFreak has kind of already done a few special elaborate attack animations with Z-moves so... I think it's a bad comparison to be upset with them over.

But yeah, at least directing attacks to spout from the correct location would definitely be a huge step in making attack animations look better. It's such a small thing and yet it would make so much difference. =/

 

[BigBadButterfree]

Well, I think even people attacking GameFreak kind of go to an extreme by implying that they should do particularly elaborate attack animations such as those in that bootleg, over just making some reasonable changes like the ones you suggested. Personally, I was just pointing out that those elaborate sort of attacks would be unreasonable given the actual numbers, and given that each pokemon in the bootleg has just one unique move, GameFreak has kind of already done a few special elaborate attack animations with Z-moves so... I think it's a bad comparison to be upset with them over.

But yeah, at least directing attacks to spout from the correct location would definitely be a huge step in making attack animations look better. It's such a small thing and yet it would make so much difference. =/

I'm pretty sure even Colosseum and XD were able to do that. I can't even remember an example but I recall one animation in there looking odd because the Pokemon's head moved so much, so the beam kept moving around. Like, idk, I'm not that kind of programmer, but I don't think it should be that hard?

 

[El_]

^ And Battle Revolution. Really, it's not so much that they were stolen or using assets of existing games that's the issue, it's what they did with those assets that irks me. If they can do that, then Game Freak could as well if they simply outsourced a specific number of animations to different teams. It's not like you need to have one team working on 800+ models, when it's more efficient to have several producing high quality content.

As far as the Z-moves, that's an issue regarding priorities. Like Dyna/Giga, I instead think they should refocus on improving the minor things about the games. The Pokemon in that bootleg look much more alive than anything Game Freak has attempted to do since Gen 6. And honestly, why haven't Game Freak themselves used or taken cues from animation from Pokken or past 3D games? Not like it would hurt.

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

I feel like people who argue "There are 800+ Pokemon, that's too many to code in unique animations" are also forgetting that they're already culling Pokemon. =/ There is not going to be over 800+ Pokemon this time around. I suspect that SwSh will still have quite a lot, but it shouldn't be more than half at most. It should mean that Game Freak (or Creatures, whoever is responsible for the animations) should have more leeway to improve the quality of the Pokemon and move animations.

...Which is what Game Freak claimed, and now we see that isn't really the case.

 

[Stratelier]

I thought people would have said that here by now but maybe I missed it.

(Also idk if Pokken is actually by GameFreak as the tweet states, I'm pretty sure it's by Bandai but the point stands)

I for one immediately recognized that Pikachu attack animation as a direct copy from one of its Pokken moves (which, iirc, is also depicted in Pokken's opening cinematic).

But yeah, at least directing attacks to spout from the correct location would definitely be a huge step in making attack animations look better. It's such a small thing and yet it would make so much difference. =/

It's actually fairly easy to do. Basically, on the model's skeleton/bone information there will be various locations tagged with specific IDs/keywords such that attack scripts can reference them for things like positioning effects relative to them. Most of the complaints regarding battle animations are because the Pokemon game engines so far DO NOT define this information, limiting what the attack scripts can actually do.

It's like how in shooter games, every gun has the endpoint of the muzzle tagged so that the game engine knows where to add the muzzle-flash effects and where to actually source the projectiles from, or how in Smash Bros. every fighter has internal information telling the game where to put the Franklin Badge, Bunny Ear hood, Reverse Mushroom/Flower status, etc.

Heck, Pokemon already did things like this with Pokemon-amie/refresh, where every region of a Pokemon's body is tagged to indicate how the Pokemon will react to petting it. Or look back at Gen 5 where its theater minigame allowed you to decorate Pokemon by attaching specific fashion items to specific parts of their body -- sprite vs. 3D model is irrelevant here.

It really is just a matter of how the engine is designed and how much work they are putting into it.

 

[BlueWaves]

^ And Battle Revolution. Really, it's not so much that they were stolen or using assets of existing games that's the issue, it's what they did with those assets that irks me. If they can do that, then Game Freak could as well if they simply outsourced a specific number of animations to different teams. It's not like you need to have one team working on 800+ models, when it's more efficient to have several producing high quality content.

As far as the Z-moves, that's an issue regarding priorities. Like Dyna/Giga, I instead think they should refocus on improving the minor things about the games. The Pokemon in that bootleg look much more alive than anything Game Freak has attempted to do since Gen 6. And honestly, why haven't Game Freak themselves used or taken cues from animation from Pokken or past 3D games? Not like it would hurt.

It might be due to the fact that GF is a very small company and the fact that GF has always been bit "meh" when it comes to programming. ( Iwata having to program Kanto in GS, remember? )The staff of Sword and Shield is apparently less than half that worked on Breath of the Wild. So you can probably imagine the people who are handling animation are probably overworked and very stressed, hence why animation is a bit dull. In fact, here's a review of GF from Glassdoor: Working at Game Freak

A contractor that works there calls it a " miserable place to work, " ; and while it is only one review based off employee size and understanding of Japanese Business culture, that review doesn't seem far off.

Back on topic, I won't judge the animations until the game launches, and remember guys, the game still in development, and it might improve.

 

[Knightwolf09]

It might be due to the fact that GF is a very small company and the fact that GF has always been bit "meh" when it comes to programming. ( Iwata having to program Kanto in GS, remember? )The staff of Sword and Shield is apparently less than half that worked on Breath of the Wild. So you can probably imagine the people who are handling animation are probably overworked and very stressed, hence why animation is a bit dull. In fact, here's a review of GF from Glassdoor: Working at Game Freak

A contractor that works there calls it a " miserable place to work, " ; and while it is only one review based off employee size and understanding of Japanese Business culture, that review doesn't seem far off.

Back on topic, I won't judge the animations until the game launches, and remember guys, the game still in development, and it might improve.

Also wasn't it said some new blood worked on the ultra games as well as SWSH for team 2?

 

[Sheep40]

SwSh are currently in pre-relase builds. That's all that was shown to us. And we must also mention that LGPE had similar issues in it's pre-release builds as well.
Graphics have never been pokemon's strong suit. They only look good because of an iconic style, not fidelity or detail or realism. Games in general often have pre-release showings that are riddled with graphical issues. Why is Pokemon getting called out on it? because people hate SwSh for not catering to "true fans" and will use any excuse to insult game freak for it's decisions.

And why does game freak not cater to these so-called true fans? To avoid the pokemon audience from becoming insular and masturbatory. It's more than just kids from the 90's. It's more than any single audience combined. And, to allow these new games to stand on their own, apart from the handheld legacy. This is a reoccurence of what happened with Ruby and Sapphire: this is the dawn of a new age of Pokemon. Like RSE, they were reviled at first because of the lack of connectivity (which was even more severe in that case), and yet Pokemon was arguably better for it.

sigh rant over. The pokemon subreddit is just a circlejerk of people complaining about the graphics and ascribing malice to game freak's decisions. I just can't stand people's hatred for these decisions, and I can't really understand them either. Game Freak's not being cheap with us. If they were, then there would just be another LG made to cynically cater to the same people that complained about these changes anyways. I needed to get this off my chest.

 

[swiftgallade46]

I agree that the games are being over-harshly judged based on the Dexit controversy. I do want to point out that these purposely nitpicky concerns should not overshadow the genuine ones. Some people would have (justifiably) criticized the graphics of sword and Shield regardless of its other shortcomings.

And why does game freak not cater to these so-called true fans? To avoid the pokemon audience from becoming insular and masturbatory. It's more than just kids from the 90's. It's more than any single audience combined.

With all due respect, I always roll my eyes when people say things like this. The relationship between GameFreak and its audience is one between business and consumer not parent and child. No matter how ungrateful and spoiled some of the audience acts, if they represent the majority then GF either complies or their product fails. Now, mind you, I don’t think that GF is currently facing any kind of situation where it is no longer going to make huge sales. My point is that “don’t enable the Pokémon community because so many of them are whiner babies” is a bad reason to make a potentially detrimental economic decision.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Why is Pokemon getting called out on it? because people hate SwSh for not catering to "true fans" and will use any excuse to insult game freak for it's decisions.

It's interesting that you're complaining about people attributing malice to Game Freak, but now you're attributing malice to other people. People aren't just looking at what they can criticize, they're focusing on graphics because the initial statement and a follow-up interview said that they wanted to make high-quality animations in favor of keeping the whole dex.

The Pokemon Sword and Shield Interview: "We Knew at Some Point We Weren't Going to be Able to Keep Indefinitely Supporting All of the Pokemon"

Pokemon Sword and Shield is a big moment of transition for the long-running monster training franchise.. For the first …

www.usgamer.net

And, to allow these new games to stand on their own, apart from the handheld legacy.

Carrying the Pokemon brand and bringing in Pokemon from past games is hardly "standing apart from the past legacy". They also said they want SwSh to emphasize handheld mode. Pokémon Sword & Shield Are Being Developed With A Focus On Switch's Handheld Mode

Like RSE, they were reviled at first because of the lack of connectivity (which was even more severe in that case), and yet Pokemon was arguably better for it.

How??? Do you honestly think the backwards connectivity in all games since was bringing the games down?

 

[Sheep40]

I didn't intend to be confrontational, to be honest. I was just venting, and I'm sorry if I offended anyone from it.

That and I did plan a bit on talking about how LGPE proved to GF that smaller, tighter yearly releases could be profitable. And yes, GF has catered to a lot of the more toxic elements of the Pokemon fanbase before. They might not be perfect, but they're not lazy. Nowhere near lazy.

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

proved to GF that smaller, tighter yearly releases could be profitable.

But this is exactly what we don't want.

This has become a problem of Game Freak as of late. They keep releasing one too many new generations (and paired sequels and remakes) in a very short span of time. Maybe it is their doing, or maybe it is TPCi or Nintendo that is pressuring them to make these yearly releases. But it's something that frankly really needs to stop, as it leads to rushed products being put out to meet demand. SM really should have been developed for the Switch and not 3DS. Game Freak would have had a lot more leeway then to make the game as ambitious as they envisioned without too many technical hurdles. But instead they opted to put the game on 3DS and push it to its absolute limits, just to meet a release quota. Heck, even BW on DS was kind of too much.