SwSh Why are people saying the graphics are "bad"?

[TechSkylander1518]

And I just watched some videos about the graphics and if you look the details of just the trees and water and stuff is so much better than the other games. Even the time of day and shadows are paid attention to.

And they didn’t just update 3ds and let’s go graphics. They literally created stuff new and made stuff look more realistic. And we have t even seen the final footage yet.

I wasn't saying anything about the environment. I've been talking about the models, because you said that they made new ones for each Pokemon.

They’re not just the same models though. Too many keep saying they have the models from let’s go and usum but they don’t. They’re improving and remaking. Te current ones are different, more detailed, more unique. They are massively different.

Improvements in the environment are great, but they don't really show anything about the Pokemon models. And, similar to story, battles, and map design, there's several staff members credited that only worked on map graphics. Ryoutarou Ohto, Sayaka Ohto, Sung Jinyoung, Naoto Yoshinari, Mayumi Shigeno, Rin Nakayam, Shinichirou Tsukada, Miki Sato, Sawako Okada, Yuki Fujikura, Arisu Katagiri, Kazuki Takahashi, Hikaru Sameshima, Naoki Goda, Yuki Inami, Naoki Goda, Shinya Asanuma, and Digital Works Entertainment are all listed in SuMo's credits only for 3D Map Graphics. With so many people already focused solely on the environment for Pokemon, how much of the improvements can we say really came as a result of the cut, and not just the team getting to work on a more advanced console?

That bunnebly actually has an expression. Though the pink being removed does look bad, the rest of it looks good and it looks so clear too.

Expressions are the animations, they're not necessarily a change in the model. And I never said it looked bad, I said that it didn't look "massively different" like you claimed. You said that they couldn't just add in old Pokemon because they were making new models, but there's nothing about these models that indicates that they're not just the same models displayed on a better console. (Apart from Bunnelby's ear change, which wasn't really an improvement) And if they're just creating new animations for old models, there's really no reason not to just paste in old models and animations for Pokemon outside of Galar.

But ripping it apart and saying they haven’t done anything significant before its released isn’t right, Becaise it makes it look bad when we don’t truly know.

By this logic, it's also not right to say they're doing something good before it's release, because you don't truly know. People are allowed to base their opinions on what they know at the moment.

 

[Weiss]

The graphics will be fine what we saw was not the final build. I think people are just ignoring this fact due to the NatDex controversy.

 

[Esserise]

B2W2 we’re basically new games. They were tre sequels. USUM was a glorified third version. They made it out to be something more than it actually was. “Alternate Story” when really it was almost the exact same story.

I'm aware, but I don't think that's what's being referred to here. The way it sounds to me, the claim that Kyriaki is referencing is saying that USUM were "abandoned" in the sense that their development was entrusted to newer members of the team while the established developers went to work on SS. But that's essentially how it always works, because games like USUM and B2W2 that reuse most of the assets from existing games don't need as much oversight and control from the top developers. (Plus, it's not as if the people like Masuda and Morimoto just completely stop thinking about those games while working on the next big one. Obviously they are still going to check in and see how things are going. So it doesn't really make sense for people to read the information that "the veterans left USUM to the younger developers so they could go and work on SS" as some exceptional manoeuver that would lead to higher-quality results than usual.)

 

[Esserise]

Bunnelby looks to actually be less detailed, with the pink of its ears removed.

Spoiler

View attachment 120682View attachment 120683

That shot of Bunnelby is just captured at an inopportune frame. If you watch the E3 video, the pink in its ears is the normal proportion, and shrinks in when Bunnelby cries upward. And it always did that, even in the 3DS games.

 

[Weiss]

That shot of Bunnelby is just captured at an inopportune frame. If you actually watch the E3 video, the pink in its ears is the normal proportion, and actually shrinks in when Bunnelby cries upward. And it always did that, even in the 3DS games.



I'm aware, but I don't think that's what's being referred to here. The way it sounds to me, the claim that Kyriaki is referencing is saying that USUM were "abandoned" in the sense that their development was entrusted to newer members of the team while the established developers went to work on SS. But that's essentially how it always works, because games like USUM and B2W2 that reuse most of the assets from existing games don't need as much oversight and control from the top developers. (Plus, it's not as if the people like Masuda and Morimoto just completely stop thinking about the subsequent entries in a generation while working on the next one. Obviously they are still going to check in and see how things are going. So it doesn't really make sense for people to read the information that "the veterans left USUM to the younger developers so they could go and work on SS" as some exceptional manoeuver that would lead to higher-quality results than usual.)

Agree with this for the most part. GameFreak have always wanted to train up newer members of the team and it is confirmed they wanted to let “Team 2” work on US&UM. I didn’t think there was much ambiguity in this.

I think the problem was taking 50% of GameFreak and moving them to Town. I’m not a Town hater I’m excited for it but this was GameFreaks only chance to make a great first impression with what Pokémon would be like in future. I think they’ve damaged the core series and the Switch by choosing not to hire more staff (temporary basis) in order to make the best game possible,

The games will look great from what I’ve heard I’m friends with a YouTuber who has captured footage he can’t release yet. I’ve not seen it but he is bemused why this build was not used for E3.

 

[Midorikawa]

Agree with this for the most part. GameFreak have always wanted to train up newer members of the team and it is confirmed they wanted to let “Team 2” work on US&UM. I didn’t think there was much ambiguity in this.

I think the problem was taking 50% of GameFreak and moving them to Town. I’m not a Town hater I’m excited for it but this was GameFreaks only chance to make a great first impression with what Pokémon would be like in future. I think they’ve damaged the core series and the Switch by choosing not to hire more staff (temporary basis) in order to make the best game possible,

The games will look great from what I’ve heard I’m friends with a YouTuber who has captured footage he can’t release yet. I’ve not seen it but he is bemused why this build was not used for E3.

I’ve heard they never show the fully complete footage. I don’t know why, but at least it means that we’ll have something better.

Though people treat the staff thing more lightly than they should. For work to go smoothly it’s important to work well together, and using outside help can cause possible delays and them not doing what they’re supposed to. Not to mention leakers. They already have bad leakers, they might want to be preventing more.

And I’m fine with them doing another game series. I think they deserve that right. Pokémon has become all they are and they should be able to expand who they. They just shouldn’t feel pressured to do yearly releases. They should be able to go at their own pace and release when they’re ready.

 

[Bolt Strike]

A lot of these graphical issues don't really seem all that noticeable to me, people are just holding the game up to a microscope to find problems with it because of the National Dex issue. These are issues definitely, but they're far from dealbreakers for me.

Constantly people want more and more in Pokémon games. Open world, harder games, better story. But to make sure we have that, stuff has to be cut. So far from what we’ve been shown, there trying to give us some of the stuff people have been asking for.

However since the national dex, this has been ignored by some people and they’re trying to make the games look bad.

Well... yeah. Expectations constantly raise with time and technology, as the hardware gets stronger and is capable of more and more, fans expect the developers to take advantage of the improvements to justify buying the new hardware. What's being labeled as "high expectations" for Pokemon is just par for the course in the console market, the problem is that Game Freak is playing catch up because they've been living in a handheld bubble for 20 years and now that they're on console they're just starting to see how much is really expected of a modern day retail game. A lot of the things they're struggling with have become standards for years, so it's really hard to have much sympathy for them. They just seem to be ill-prepared for the transition to console.

Game Freak can't keep playing a zero sum game like this forever. Pokemon will be so far behind that no one will want to buy it anymore, especially not for $60 on a modern day console. At some point they have to scale up their resources to adapt to the console environment, they need to put more time and/or manpower into these games to make the ambitious, high end console game the industry expects of them.

 

[dvor]

A lot of these graphical issues don't really seem all that noticeable to me, people are just holding the game up to a microscope to find problems with it because of the National Dex issue. These are issues definitely, but they're far from dealbreakers for me.

Took the words out of my keyboard lol

 

[Kallyle]

It’s mostly because of the National Dex controversy that people are complaining about the graphics, though there are some issues that aren’t nitpicking: mainly in response to models popping in and out (both human models and Dynamax Steelix as seen in the Treehouse footage). It’s distracting and not many companies have such problems.

 

[Weiss]

I’ve heard they never show the fully complete footage. I don’t know why, but at least it means that we’ll have something better.

Though people treat the staff thing more lightly than they should. For work to go smoothly it’s important to work well together, and using outside help can cause possible delays and them not doing what they’re supposed to. Not to mention leakers. They already have bad leakers, they might want to be preventing more.

And I’m fine with them doing another game series. I think they deserve that right. Pokémon has become all they are and they should be able to expand who they. They just shouldn’t feel pressured to do yearly releases. They should be able to go at their own pace and release when they’re ready.

Yes this is what I am told as well I am told it’s to safe time not preparing a “vertical slice” specifically for a demo. So they would run older tested builds to prevent any embarrassing lock ups or crashes during the presentation etc.

Having said that I agree and I’m grateful I’m not the only one who feels a lot of the complaints are due to the NatDex @Kallyle got the nail right on the head.

 

[Windchild]

I don't think they look bad--I've never had high standards for MUH GRAPPICS--but they're not exactly mindblowing either. And it's not like there's a massive heap of new content to make up for it. We haven't had a good postgame or a comprehensive side mode since B2W2. I can't justify paying 50% more when the only improvement over previous games is the graphics, and again, they aren't wowing me.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

That shot of Bunnelby is just captured at an inopportune frame. If you watch the E3 video, the pink in its ears is the normal proportion, and shrinks in when Bunnelby cries upward. And it always did that, even in the 3DS games.

My bad, I was focusing on trying to get a closeup without motion blur and didn't catch that.

Doesn't that just further show that it hasn't been changed since the original, though?

 

[Lanstar]

To me, the visual graphics (texturing, modelling, shading, etc.) are fine, and are indeed a step up from Sun and Moon. The trees and other scenes are nitpicks of the riled-up fanbase as as far as I'm concerned

The animations, however...

I'm sorry - I think they are about the same quality as Sun/Moon. I don't say that as they're 'bad' - But that much of the Sun/Moon animations were already pretty well done, and these games aren't much a step up. Their Z-Move graphics, Mega Evo posing, Move-animations, Human animations, etc., were about as similar calibur as sword/shield - although Sun/Moon has it weaker on the 'visual graphics' side due to hardware constraints.

I still have yet to see how animations are the real reason for the culling of pokemon, though. Even if there might be really subtle animation tweaks, they could have still put in all the existing HD models along with their existing animations, and just adjust their shading to the games - And no-one would really blink to see if they really stuck out like a sore thumb. Unless they actually showed me a few brand new kinds of animations that every Pokemon must uniquely bear, I don't buy it. Dynamax doesn't really count, as no animation exclusively unique to a Pokemon that each one requires has been shown to me yet.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

I still have yet to see how animations are the real reason for the culling of pokemon, though. Even if there might be really subtle animation tweaks, they could have still put in all the existing HD models along with their existing animations, and just adjust their shading to the games - And no-one would really blink to see if they really stuck out like a sore thumb. Unless they actually showed me a few brand new kinds of animations that every Pokemon must uniquely bear, I don't buy it. Dynamax doesn't really count, as no animation exclusively unique to a Pokemon that each one requires has been shown to me yet.

As far as we know that we haven't seen, according to Joe Merrick, Pokemon do have celebration animations. He has said he has seen a clip of you and your Pokemon celebrating after defeating Nessa in the demo, so every Pokemon likely has a celebration animation. They also likely have had to create tons of animations for this game's version of Refresh, which supposedly has toys you can use to play with your Pokemon, which could require unique animations. Its possible also that all Pokemon have overworld animations and possibly animations for cutscenes.

 

[Lanstar]

As far as we know that we haven't seen, according to Joe Merrick, Pokemon do have celebration animations. He has said he has seen a clip of you and your Pokemon celebrating after defeating Nessa in the demo, so every Pokemon likely has a celebration animation.

I hope the 'celebratory' animations are truly new ones, compared to many of the celebratory ones already used in Amie/Refresh.

They also likely have had to create tons of animations for this game's version of Refresh, which supposedly has toys you can use to play with your Pokemon, which could require unique animations.

How much information about this new feature has been reliably leaked, I might ask?

Its possible also that all Pokemon have overworld animations and possibly animations for cutscenes.

That shouldn't necessarily be a required animation for all pokemon for them to get in, as the ones not in the Galar dex wouldn't be wild overworld Pokemon anyways. Unless, of course they're hiding following Pokemon as a feature.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

How much information about this new feature has been reliably leaked, I might ask?

The leak that mentions it is VERY reliable. Its gotten everything correct from Dynamax, Gigantamax, Milo, Nessa, Hop, Leon, Sonia, Chairman Rose, Oleana, the Wild Area, and even some Pokemon. We have yet to see this feature, but if its gotten this much correct, I wouldn't doubt this either.

I hope the 'celebratory' animations are truly new ones, compared to many of the celebratory ones already used in Amie/Refresh.

I'd hope that they are completely new ones, but all we know is we do get to see our Pokemon celebrate with us.

 

[Esserise]

Doesn't that just further show that it hasn't been changed since the original, though?

Yeah, but I think we already knew that the models were all the same.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Yeah, but I think we already knew that the models were all the same.

Well, no, actually.

They’re not just the same models though. Too many keep saying they have the models from let’s go and usum but they don’t. They’re improving and remaking. Te current ones are different, more detailed, more unique. They are massively different.

That's why I was comparing them in the first place.

 

[Desdar300]

The Graphic takes are happening because people want to retort Masuda's statement about higher quality animations
So now reddit and no name Youtubers have banded together to refute his point.
The whole thing is a mess and seems to get worse with the passing days.

 

[Esserise]

Well, no, actually.

That's why I was comparing them in the first place.

Fair enough, but that wasn't my take.