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Why did people not seem to mind the dub replacing music as much before XY?

PaperSplash

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I know there were a few people outspoken about it from the beginning, but from what I've seen, before XY the dub replacing music seemed to be something the majority of people were aware of but tolerated. But ever since then I've seen people calling the dub outright unwatchable because of its music replacements, something I saw from very few people, if any, beforehand. So what changed? I know XY was the first series Ed Goldfarb scored for. Do people find his music that unpleasant to listen to compared to the previous dub composers? Or is it just easier access to the Japanese version making more people bothered by it? I definitely understand why people would be opposed to the dub replacing the music on principle, but it's strange to me that people don't seem to make as big a deal about the music replacement from the earlier series. Why is that?
 

Alola

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Before Goldfarb (?), the music was something I did not mind; it actually felt in line with the show, an episode, a battle, etc. They also kept more original pieces too. The music from XY onwards feels out of place, uninspiring, and bland to me, as a comparison. For example, we used to have tracks like this, that were pretty awesome in my opinion; I really liked when this played when Dawn turned things around against May and it wasn't even an original Japanese track.
 

skiittylalis

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at least to me its a combo of a few things...... nostalgia for the old bgm, what was replaced and what wasnt, and how the music sets the mood. im a huge music nerd so oops im gonna ramble

nostalgia and flashbacks first!! i grew up with dp/bw but often watched os on old reruns so ive also kinda grown up with the 4kids/early tpci bgm. nostalgia is a powerful force i think we all know that so thats and easy point down. but regarding the replacement of music, it was still done back then but not nearly as much. kick up any episode of advanced generation and youre gonna hear advance adventure a lot!! same with dp, where kimi no soba de was basically used in every contest she participated in. but even then tpci would occasionally leave in other bgm...... they still replaced some music but id like to say that on any given random episode you watch of dp/bw you have an okay shot of hearing some japanese bgm left in

but back to the mood of the music and what i believe is the main offender of why people dont like the "new" dub music. a good song can make a scene so much better!! some examples are xyz playing at the climax of any xyz battle or type wild playing at the end of the ash vs kukui battle. theres action on the screen, so you want an upbeat and energetic song to really nail the feeling of "THIS IS HYPE AS HELL" and make the scene more fun to watch. compare this with Boring And Generic Piano And Harp Dot MP3(tm) that played at the end of the dubbed ash vs kukui battle. theres action on screen, but the music COMPLETELY contradicts this and it really makes the scene feel sluggish and slow. i dont feel like headbopping and cheering ash on, i feel like sinking into my chair and taking a nap. i personally think that ed goldfarbs music is...... bare minimum decent on a good day. there are a few pieces ive heard from the dub that i think are more than passable as well!! but the problem is a majority of his scoring is really bland and it has no identity of its own and is constantly used in all the wrong places that its confusing and sometimes unbearable to watch

though the accessibility of japanese episodes may play a role..... once youre exposed to what youve been missing in the dub, the dubs score immediately feels lackluster. but tldr the xy-present dub score cuts way more music than before and replaces it with hollow ear fluff that barely fits whats happening on screen
 

Flynn

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People have always cared about the music replacements. The dub music bothered me when I actively watched the dub when Diamond & Pearl was the current series, and I definitely wasn't the only one who disliked it. The thing is when Goldfarb joined the % of music kept in a given episode dropped like a rock and replacement scores for the movies made an unwelcome return. During the DP days TPCi would actually keep some silence here and there and sometimes they'd even completely leave the score alone. It was pretty rare, but it happened. Nowadays, dub fans get this:
c4Nk0PO.png
 
Last edited:

Johtohfiller

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I think part of it is more viewers discovering subs and realizing what they're missing without the original score.
 

A Wild Luxray

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It started to become more apparent when Ed Goldfarb took over. Replacing tracks was nothing new. Its happened before, though in the past, more of the original soundtrack was kept. Plus, the tracks that were replaced weren't that bad around the DP and even BW era. When it came to XY, the music from Goldfarb was very uninspired, bland, and did not fit the scene at all. Action scenes that were meant to be hype didn't have the proper music to get you hyped. Prime examples include the climax of Ash's battle with Sawyer in XYZ and the climax of Ash's battle against Professor Kukui. The original had XYZ and Type: Wild playing at the climax. It got you hyped and it got you rooting for Ash. The dub failed in that regard. I can even point to instances such as the Kalos Gym Leaders joining the fight in the Team Flare arc where in the original, V (Volt) was there to hype up their arrival while the dub had some bland Goldfarb track that didn't hype up their arrival. The problem is mostly Goldfarb's tracks are awful.
 

Johtoo

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People have always cared about the music replacements. The dub music bothered me when I actively watched the dub when Diamond & Pearl was the current series, and I definitely wasn't the only one who disliked it. The thing is when Goldfarb joined the % of music kept in a given episode dropped like a rock and replacement scores for the movies made an unwelcome return. During the DP days TPCi would actually keep some silence here and there and sometimes they'd even completely leave the score alone. It was pretty rare, but it happened. Nowadays, dub fans get this:
c4Nk0PO.png

TCPI makes billions each year, yet they're too cheap to fork out the money for the licensing costs for the Japanese soundtrack. Disgusting.
 

Enzo

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Before Goldfarb (?), the music was something I did not mind; it actually felt in line with the show, an episode, a battle, etc. They also kept more original pieces too. The music from XY onwards feels out of place, uninspiring, and bland to me, as a comparison. For example, we used to have tracks like this, that were pretty awesome in my opinion; I really liked when this played when Dawn turned things around against May and it wasn't even an original Japanese track.
Wait, I cannot believe I have finally found this!!!!

I vividly remember this playing whenever Ash battled Paul or when Dawn battled Zoe (or was an slightly remixed version?) and bopping so hard to it as an kid lol.
 

RetroPokeFan

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To me there just isn't anything to say about the music anymore other than what everyone else has said. It's just really bland, the kind of music you'd hear in an elevator. Granted I haven't enjoyed much of the music in the original Japanese version of Journeys either so in this series, it's essentially a lose-lose scenario for me.
 

Momentum

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Because Goldfarb sucks, plain and simple. It was a blessing when he was unable to compose music for Movie 21 and we actually got the original score.
 

Hidden Mew

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This has always been a complaint about the dub as far as I can remember. It might have become more common over time, especially with more people watching the subbed version and hearing the original score, but I think I've seen people being understandably upset over the music being replaced since I became more involved with the online fanbase. I do recall DP keeping more original music than what came before and after too.
 

Torchic W. Pip

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Wait the music in the dub is different from the original? Sorry, I haven't watched a lot of the original Japanese dub (sadly)
 

Johtoo

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People have always cared about the music replacements. The dub music bothered me when I actively watched the dub when Diamond & Pearl was the current series, and I definitely wasn't the only one who disliked it. The thing is when Goldfarb joined the % of music kept in a given episode dropped like a rock and replacement scores for the movies made an unwelcome return. During the DP days TPCi would actually keep some silence here and there and sometimes they'd even completely leave the score alone. It was pretty rare, but it happened. Nowadays, dub fans get this:
c4Nk0PO.png
The paul theme was so good people were geninally convinced on the twitch stream that it was his official theme and that it was part of the original soundtrack. Honestly, I miss John Loeffler.
 

Jewel the Quaxly

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People have always cared about the music replacements. The dub music bothered me when I actively watched the dub when Diamond & Pearl was the current series, and I definitely wasn't the only one who disliked it. The thing is when Goldfarb joined the % of music kept in a given episode dropped like a rock and replacement scores for the movies made an unwelcome return. During the DP days TPCi would actually keep some silence here and there and sometimes they'd even completely leave the score alone. It was pretty rare, but it happened. Nowadays, dub fans get this:
c4Nk0PO.png
T-they didn't use a SINGLE Japanese soundtrack in the FINAL episode of Alola??? What the hell??? :confused::confused::confused:
 

A Wild Luxray

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Back in DP, more of the original soundtrack was kept, though I still remember instances when the music was swapped out for dub music. Like, we've already spoke about the Paul battle theme, which is miles better than anything the dub has now. I remember there was complaints when they swapped Dawn's theme for a song titled "The Ultimate Challenge" at the end of her and Zoey's Grand Festival battle, but this song wasn't anywhere near as bad as the music they use for the dub these days.
 

Nicolas721

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Loeffer's compositions weren't perfect, but he understood the original compositions decently enough so his music fit in very nicely and has a consistent style with the original. Add that to nostalgia factor and you get a tough act to follow.

What Goldfarb did (either by own choice or by his bosses' orders) was to change that style completely. Everyone has their own opinion in regards to how it sounds, but to me it's a more childish style, more repetitive and more fairy tale-like.

However I don't know if that's exactly the answer, because to me that discussion raised popularity until 2016-2017 and since then it has more or less waned to normal levels.
 

PaperSplash

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I see. Personally for me, the dub music was always kind of just there for the most part (I can only remember a handful of non-vocal tracks off the top of my head, and I only recalled the Paul track mentioned earlier in this thread when I looked it up); that didn't really change with XY and Goldfarb. I guess people just find Goldfarb's music especially unfitting for Pokémon? Though at the end of the day I think TPCi deserves the criticism for that, not the music or Goldfarb himself. I doubt it's Goldfarb who decides exactly how much of the original music is kept either.
 
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