Why do Cilan's Pokemon always learn new moves off screen?

[Sweet Veil]

I don't get why anyone cares about this? Cilan is not competing in anything and although we see him battling often its not a big deal.

He's a sidekick character, albeit a very properly used one, so his pokemon getting speedy development makes no difference.

If "speedy development" means "new moves outta of no where with no hardwork" I don't think I'll like "speedy development". I would crap a brick if Iris's Emonga showed up with Thunder, Acrobat, or Thunderbolt in one episode because it wouldn't make much sense nor be plausible even if she did beat a crap load of other Pokemon, she has to work toward the move or actually learn it in a struggle, or in a situation she can't just "show up" with it. The fact that the writers went that route with Dento's Pokemon is just so wrong and cheap. "Oh, no that didn't work but, my Pokemon just so happens to know this move! Haha! I win!". It's just bad writing, whether Dento is a sidekick of not. He gets more then ample amount of screen time and a regular amount of episodes where you think he would be training or would have trained to some extent. Six minutes, six minutes of sparking and acting all sommelier like in one ep could have been used for some justified training, so his Pokemon learning new moves wouldn't feel cheap or forced. But, it goes without saying that the writings blatantly continuously handing Dento power ups with nothing to show for it is just forced. Especially, "Rock Tomb" since it's a Rock move.

Satoshi taught Pikachu how to use Iron Tail and it was perfected in a struggle, Doryuuzu learned Focus Blast on it's own, but Iris helped and stayed up all night to perfect it, Kurumayu learning Energy Ball after evolution was understandable because that happens when Pokemon unleash new found power upon evolving, Mijumaru learning Aqua Jet and Pokabu Nitro Charge involved training, and still then it was hard work behind it that helped it gain control of it's new found ability and power.

At this rate in the series, that's poor writing and just not excusable. What's next "Rock Wrecker"? "Thunder"? Maybe "Seed Bomb"? I honestly wonder if the writers where drunk and on the brink of a hangover when they were writing Dento's Pokemon's development.

 

[L-05308]

It's not just Cilan's.

Oshawott's Tackle and Razor Shell and Snivy's Leaf Blade randomly used as well.

It's assumed that they knew the moves from the start but just didn't use them untill later, which could have easily been the same for Stunfisk's Scald but it was specificlly stated that he lerned it under Cilan's care

 

[Caseydia]

Because you don't always need an entire episode dedicated to a Pokemon learning a new move.

If this is the case, then why do we have to wait for a whole episode for any of Ash's Pokemon to learn a new move? I think it's prejudice if you ask me.

 

[Hurricane Kishore]

The real question would be Why Ash's cast pokemon doesn't learn new move off screen ?
Because there nothing wrong in Clian learning new move off screen , Instate Ash's pokemon Should learn their move off screen
There no need to make a entire episode for a new move

 

[Shinneth]

I don't believe it's prejudice in any sense of the word to feel that Cilan's Pokemon don't require immense amounts of screentime to develop/learn new moves/become stronger. Like I said, Cilan's role is vastly different from Ash and Iris'. He's there to be the mentor and he clearly has a lot of experience under his belt already (as one would expect from a Gym Leader and high-ranking Sommelier), so the struggles and hardships that are expected of our younger, less experienced protagonists aren't very befitting of Cilan's purpose on the show. And yeah, it's cheap and lazy to have the moves learned off-screen, but like I said, Cilan's Pokemon aren't the only ones guilty of undergoing a major change off-screen just to elevate their trainers' standing. And at least in Cilan's case, it doesn't really do anything to damage his character or cheapen his progression like it does for Ash and Iris, because Cilan's purpose and goal are in a completely different category altogether. The most recent case of this also had storyline justification for Chili, in which case I deem is an acceptable sacrifice. If they spent a lot of time showing how Rock Tomb was learned, there'd be less time to show off all the other awesome stuff that happened in the episode. There are a few BW episodes that could've been a lot better if they didn't have so many things happening in the span of 22 minutes. The more you try to fit in, the more content needs to be taken out from other scenes in order to fit the time constraint. So if they had to cut out something for that episode, I think I'm cool with Rock Tomb being on the chopping block.

And again, as I've said, since Cilan IS the experience mentor... despite him still having a lot to learn himself, I think seeing his "struggles" would be the least dramatic, or have the least potential to be the kind of engaging entertainment you'd expect from this sort of thing. That's not a slight against Cilan himself; it's just a matter of his level of experience that would weaken the effect of the signs of progression compared to what you'd see from Ash. Especially since Ash's Unova team REALLY sucks and any sign of showing them progressing would be amazing by this point.

 

[Ashfangirl22]

Dento isn't going to be entering in any thing important like the league or contests at this moment to where we need to be concerned with his training and such.

 

[Hurricane Kishore]

Who care ? we don't even know what Clian off to do actually ?
The fact that he got to beat Trip & gain his respect before Ash did is more then enough !
Even Brock didn't get this chance.
There not need to make a whole episode about Clian pokemon learning a move
It's a complete waste of weak
Instate Writer should focus on Ash's battling & his interaction with Pokemon and for once he motivating a referring character

Spoiler

I think people would love a episode where Burgundy saw Ash beating Clian for the second time and start to copy Ash which she failed. Later Ash motivated her & Ask her to train with him and after that she challenge Clian & manage to beat him for the 1st time
I think people prefer a episode like that rather then wasting a episode about Clian Pokemon learning new move.

I say that, Ash's Pokemon should learn their move off screen . There no need to make up a whole episode about each move Ash's Pokemon learn
Instate Ash should tech his pokemon new move off screen
This way there will be more surprise when Ash battle & reveal new move to counter his foe which we have no idea about
After all, teaching perfect move for his pokemon is a trainer responcibility.
May be This is the reason why Clian & Paul battle seem so interesting . Because they always teaching their pokemon perfect move according to their ability, body & type while Ash just wait for his pokemon to learn their move or someone to provoke him in teaching his pokemon new move rather then teaching them himself on his own
I mean, Did Ash ever teach his pokemon a move to counter Type adventage without a third person showing up & provoke him teaching a new move ?
Even Inferenape Dig was Paul idea while Buizel learn Ice punch after Clayton provoke Ash to teach it
I

 

[Torterrius]

Cilan is like Brock: no one rightfully should give too much of a fladoodle about him. He's there to make Ash's life a teensy bit more realistic and cook the group's meals and offer sage-like advice to advance along the Pokemon development of the characters who actually have a goal. Cilan's whole goal this season has been blatantly pointed out: he's there to observe Ash do things.

Iris, Ash, they both need to have their Pokemon receive attention because they actually have development to undergo. That directly relates to having Pokemon actually learn new moves. Cilan is a practical veteran, what his Pokemon know and how they know it are of no concern to us. Just as long as he kicks butt.

 

[Karamazov]

Shigglebloots, I forgot about this thread.

I really didn't mind it when Dewbble suddenly used a new move. But when Pansage and Stunfisk randomly pulled new moves out of their asses, it was a little weird. (Though Stunfisk could be justified, as it is a trollfish and does whatever it wants.) I'd rather see Cilan win or lose matches without a new move coming out of nowhere. He has the skill, and his matches are interesting. Having to wonder about these new moves coming out of nowhere just takes aay from my enjoyment.

But that's just me.

 

[Ampharos King]

Cilan's goal does not require a lot of training or battling on-screen. In this way, he is being treated nearly the same as Brock and Tracey had when they were on the main cast. A lot of Brock and Tracey's pokemon had also learned new moves off-screen or very abruptly after they evolved (i.e. Brock's Marshtomp using Protect, Ludicolo learned Bullet Seed after it evolved). Neither of these two characters had any definitive long-term goals that required them to go out and train their pokemon. Their pokemon were simply given attacks that would help them out in the very few instances when the trainers needed to battle alongside them.

In Cilan's case, this was done a lot in a very short amount of time. In many instances, it was because Cilan's pokemon used these new attacks that they have won certain battles (i.e. Dwebble VS Trip's Gurdurr, Pansage VS Pansear). Adding insult to injury, Cilan knew had to battle alongside each of his three pokemon very quickly after he has obtained them (i.e. using Dwebble's Sturdy + Shell Smash, teaching Stunfisk how to glide in the air with its fins). With Brock and Tracey, cases where their pokemon learned new moves off-screen were very minimal and they also owned pokemon that learned new attacks on-screen as well.

Brock and Tracey's pokemon appeared to be weaker than the pokemon that belonged to Ash and Misty when they fought against TRio and against certain trainers, because they were not shown to battle as much. Conversely, Cilan's pokemon appear to be as strong if not stronger than Ash and Iris's pokemon even without the on-screen training. Some might question that Cilan is an 'instant expert' when it comes to training and battling his pokemon, but I guess this is expected of someone of gym leader and connoisseur stock.

I think AG and DP has gone off the deep end when it comes to pokemon that needed to spend time to learn new moves. Ash's pokemon in Kanto and the Orange Islands learned the majority of their new attacks in battle, and this was after they had received experience in previous matches. He had hardly trained his team in Kanto. With the exception of Ash's Cyndaquil trying to master its Flamethrower in early Johto, none of the main characters have ever explicitly trained their pokemon to learn new moves in the Johto saga.

On the other hand, AG and DP featured a lot of pokemon (Swellow, Snorunt, May's Skitty, May's Bulbasaur, May's Squirtle, Staravia, Turtwig, Buizel, Gible) that actually had to spend at least one episode trying to learn and perfect a new attack. Those who have watched AG and DP believe that pokemon must work hard on-screen to justify learning new attacks for battle.

Now that BW had minimized the training to only a select few pokemon that really needed it, the writers are definitely going back to the route of having main characters's pokemon using and learning new attacks that they had not used before just because they can.

I would have liked to see Cilan's pokemon learn a few new attacks on-screen, because it shows that his pokemon really did improve and made progress. If we actually had visible justification that Cilan had advanced from point A to point B, perhaps we wouldn't be labelling the circumstances in which his pokemon were shown to use new attacks unexpectedly as "cheap."

 

[Hellion]

Taking this from the BW63 preview thread because my reply won't actually mention the episode itself.

Let's hope one of Cilan's pokemon learns a new attack on-screen this time.

Again, I have to ask, the difference would be? Say Dent is in a battle and Iwapresu uses Rock Wrecker out of nowhere and Dent goes, "What is this? Could it be... Rock Wrecker?", what would make that situation any more believable or justified that showing up with the move? If the argument is that there's no on screen hard work or struggle (which isn't, in my opinion, a requisite to learning a new move being believable in all situations, though in some it is), then neither situation relies on hard work and struggle. Neither situation relies on an outside character teaching the move to Iwaparesu. Both situations are believable because of Iwaparesu/Ishizumai's past battles and past performances. Neither situation solves any of the obstacles that are standing in Dent's way for accomplishing his quest, and therefore don't hinder his development.

Learning moves out of nowhere on screen and learning moves off screen are believable or unbelievable (cause in some cases they're not, but I don't feel that this has been the case with any of the moves learned by Dent's pokémon) for the exact same reasons. Neither one is really better than the other.

 

[L-05308]

Taking this from the BW63 preview thread because my reply won't actually mention the episode itself.



Again, I have to ask, the difference would be? Say Dent is in a battle and Iwapresu uses Rock Wrecker out of nowhere and Dent goes, "What is this? Could it be... Rock Wrecker?", what would make that situation any more believable or justified that showing up with the move? If the argument is that there's no on screen hard work or struggle (which isn't, in my opinion, a requisite to learning a new move being believable in all situations, though in some it is), then neither situation relies on hard work and struggle. Neither situation relies on an outside character teaching the move to Iwaparesu. Both situations are believable because of Iwaparesu/Ishizumai's past battles and past performances. Neither situation solves any of the obstacles that are standing in Dent's way for accomplishing his quest, and therefore don't hinder his development.

Learning moves out of nowhere on screen and learning moves off screen are believable or unbelievable (cause in some cases they're not, but I don't feel that this has been the case with any of the moves learned by Dent's pokémon) for the exact same reasons. Neither one is really better than the other.

but the reason I posted this thread is that the writers seem to be doing it on purpose, when Dwebble used Rock Slide it could have just of easily have lerned it then and their and it would have made perfect sense, however it was speciffically mentioned that it lerned it off screen. Stunfisk could have just used Scald and it be left to be assumed an attack it has always had and just not used in its first 2 appearances, just as Snivy did with Leaf blade. Then Pansage came along and used Rock tomb, it had four moves before so it could not have known it all along and it did not learn it then and there, rock tomb is such an obscure move it would have gone through some sought of special training to lern it and what made Cilan decide Pansage should learn Rock tomb? Since BW058 aired and all of Chili's losses being mentioned became significant in planning for the episode, it really highlights this pattern to me, and I wonder if it could be significant. Tho I've no idea how it could be...

 

[SadieReid]

Maybe they get stage fright or train in solitude?

 

[BlazeMaster]

Why does it matter? Is Cilan going to be in a league? No.

Fair point but it would be awesone if he was.

It's obvious. Cilan uses TMs!

 

[Moe]

It's obvious. Cilan uses TMs!

And is a connoisseur of Rare Candies.

 

[L-05308]

Fair point but it would be awesone if he was.

It's obvious. Cilan uses TMs!

That makes a lot of sense, Rock Slide, Scald and Rock Tomb are all TMs

Well then, case closed Lololololol

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

To be honest with you, I didn't noticed or cared about this issue. Partially because Dent is a side character and his profession doesn't require battling. Mostly because I don't watch BW frequently (exams, lack of green miniskirts and pink shirts makes this drill queen fanboy a dull boy and all that) But I wouldn't mind to see him trying to teach his Pokémon something, OR, as I would much prefer, and as BW seems to love to do nowadays, have another character lampshade this issue, be it some CoTD or Cabernet; kinda like how Harley commented on Haruka's over use of "kamo" and mocked her girliness by dressing up as her, how Urara bitched about how Hikari always won with time-outs and never won through knock outs(no, in-between battles like Hellgar and Guraena in Asatsuki Contest or Mobuo doesn't count), or how Langley commented about her similarities with Iris; even though I doubt Cabernet is that much of a critic, whereas previous three would have a blast by having a riffing show on Youtube. Shit, I didn't watched the episode properly. Cabernet already did do that in Don Battle episode, briefly. Damn.

 

[FullmetalSuicune]

It's Miyano logic
How does Ling Yao eat all of that food without gaining weight?
How does Tamaki create the corner of woe?
Miyano logic!
(If you're wondering Miyano Mamoru is Dento [Cilan]'s Japanese voice actor and Tamaki and Ling are played by him as well)
Always relied on Miyano logic!