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Why do people hate Gen 4 and 5 so much?

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What I'm not currently understanding is why Kalos isn't susceptible to the usual new gen hate. Probably because of CHARIZARD and KANTO, but still it is odd.
First of all, there is al ot of hate for gen 6 atm. People dislike the regional design, which they deem to straightforward without any challenging caves or the like, the worst lack of postgame since gen 1, the "dumbing down" of difficulty (most notable XP share and Lucky Egg) in general, the small amount of pokes for gym and elite 4 leaders, and many other things make pokemon X and Y recieve their fair share of "hate".

But I guess you have a point with your remarks about Charizard and Kanto. I myself found it a lot easier to get into the game because there were so many pokemon I already knew. This troubled me greatly in Black and White, where every single pokemon until postgame was a new one. So not kanto per se, but the fact that you encountered familiar pokes was a plus for me.
 
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What I'm not currently understanding is why Kalos isn't susceptible to the usual new gen hate. Probably because of CHARIZARD and KANTO, but still it is odd.
I've seen plenty of hate for 6th gen. Many people complain about the lack of replay value, the extremely low difficulty, and the storyline, and I've heard a couple of people say they don't like the concept of Mega Evolutions.

First of all, there is al ot of hate for gen 6 atm. People dislike the regional design, which they deem to straightforward without any challenging caves or the like, the worst lack of postgame since gen 1, the "dumbing down" of difficulty (most notable XP share and Lucky Egg) in general, the small amount of pokes for gym and elite 4 leaders, and many other things make pokemon X and Y recieve their fair share of "hate".
A lot of these issues apply to 5th gen too.

But I guess you have a point with your remarks about Charizard and Kanto. I myself found it a lot easier to get into the game because there were so many pokemon I already knew. This troubled me greatly in Black and White, where every single pokemon until postgame was a new one. So not kanto per se, but the fact that you encountered familiar pokes was a plus for me.
I think it's a lesser of two evils situation personally, and this is one of the factors involved. 5th and 6th gen took the series in a completely new and controversial direction for the series, but I think a lot of those people feel that 6th gen did less wrong than 5th gen. The lack of new Pokemon and the fanservice were both part of it, the timing in regards to DS and 3DS was probably another factor, 6th gen felt more like a new generation than 5th gen because of the graphical and gameplay upgrades. 5th gen didn't really have much added to it, it mainly took things away.
 
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People hate the 3rd generation, 4th, and 5th generation, because they`re nostalgic freaks who still aren`t over the loss of their beloved Game Boy, 8-bit pixels, and 2-bit monochrome music. I loved the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generations, but I hate the 5th generation. Unova was a failed attempt made by Nintendo to make the Pokemon games more advance. The pixelated sprites do work to well in a 3D modeled world, so it just looks wrong. The in-battle graphics also suck. The Pokemon moving around makes my DS lag and it makes the Pokemon look weird. I can`t say much about the 6th generation, since I never played it. I do like the concept of Mega Evolution. Mega Evolution is the Super Saiyan of Pokemon.
 
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Overall, I think the biggest reason is the direction that they tried to take the series. Both Gen 4 and 5 (and to a lesser extent, 3) tried to focus more on the new then the old with their Pokemon, characters and the like, and for older fans that probably disconnected them from the games. This is especially the case with BW, which tried to focus only on the Unova region and its characters aside from a couple returnees, which is probably why it gets it the worst between the two.

Personally though, that's probably why I appreciate both of the previous generations more then I do Gen 6. While they had their problems, I liked that they tried to be their own thing, XY fell back too much on the old for me to really get into it.

A lot of these issues apply to 5th gen too.
To be fair, they did get worse with Gen 6.
 
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Overall, I think the biggest reason is the direction that they tried to take the series. Both Gen 4 and 5 (and to a lesser extent, 3) tried to focus more on the new then the old with their Pokemon, characters and the like, and for older fans that probably disconnected them from the games. This is especially the case with BW, which tried to focus only on the Unova region and its characters aside from a couple returnees, which is probably why it gets it the worst between the two.

Personally though, that's probably why I appreciate both of the previous generations more then I do Gen 6. While they had their problems, I liked that they tried to be their own thing, XY fell back too much on the old for me to really get into it.
I get 5th gen, but I didn't feel like 4th gen focused too much on newer stuff. Pokemon wise there were tons of cross gen evos and character wise it was no worse than RSE. There's never been a perfect balance of old and new, but I think 3rd and 4th gen were the closest to that balance personally, 2nd and 6th gen were too nostalgia focused and 5th gen was too focused on being a "fresh start".

To be fair, they did get worse with Gen 6.
The difficulty got worse, that was it. Gym rosters didn't really change much from 5th to 6th gen and region design got worse in one way (less optional areas) and better in others (gyms weren't all one city apart and there was backtracking if only because the path looped back to a city you've already visited).
 
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To be fair, they did get worse with Gen 6.
The difficulty got worse, that was it. Gym rosters didn't really change much from 5th to 6th gen and region design got worse in one way (less optional areas) and better in others (gyms weren't all one city apart and there was backtracking if only because the path looped back to a city you've already visited).
I was also referring to the post-game and single player options, which had less to do then BW. You're right about the region designs being about the same, though honestly I felt that there wasn't that much backtracking in XY considering you still were set on a straight path, it just tricked you by having you revisit a city along the way (and even then, it was a different part of the city that you couldn't visit previously).
 
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Bringing the Thunder
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I was also referring to the post-game and single player options, which had less to do then BW.
Post game wasn't really as problematic in BW, and I'm not sure what you mean by "single player options".
 
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I don't think I'd say I "hate" Gens 3 and later... I'm just not interested in any of them. Sure, they have their merits, such as pretty graphics (especially, XY) and some neat-looking Pokémon, but the regions and characters, themselves, just don't inspire anything more than mild apathy from me.

I grew up during the height of Pokémania in the late 1990s and early 2000s, so Gens 1 and 2 will always be my favorite games. They'll always be the ones I'm most familiar with, the ones that I relate to the most, and the ones that excite me the most. When you say "Pokémon," I will always think of RBY and GSC before any of the others, and that will probably never change. I'm sure younger fans probably feel the same way about RSE, DPP, and BW/B2W2, admit it.

If there is one criticism I want to make about the later Gens, though, is that they seem to be emphasizing competitive battling over everything else more and more with each new Gen. I guess that was an inevitability with the introduction of Wi-Fi in Gen 4--it's far easier to battle other people when you aren't restricted to link cables--but I wish they'd throw in more for people who don't have any interest in that stuff. From what I've read, XY seem to have been literally made with the idea that the "metagame" is the postgame, so there's practically nothing to do after beating the Elite Four that isn't some form of competitive battling, even if it's at an in-game battling facility.
 
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I was also referring to the post-game and single player options, which had less to do then BW.
Post game wasn't really as problematic in BW, and I'm not sure what you mean by "single player options".
I'm not sure what you mean by the first statement, and as for single player options, I meant things like the optional areas that you mentioned, activities and legendaries that you have access to on your own without the need of multiplayer options. Though thinking about it, I guess most of those factor into post game anyway.
 
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If there is one criticism I want to make about the later Gens, though, is that they seem to be emphasizing competitive battling over everything else more and more with each new Gen. I guess that was an inevitability with the introduction of Wi-Fi in Gen 4--it's far easier to battle other people when you aren't restricted to link cables--but I wish they'd throw in more for people who don't have any interest in that stuff. From what I've read, XY seem to have been literally made with the idea that the "metagame" is the postgame, so there's practically nothing to do after beating the Elite Four that isn't some form of competitive battling, even if it's at an in-game battling facility.
Metagame is completely optional, there's no reason to complain about that. The lack of things to do in post game, on the other hand...

I was also referring to the post-game and single player options, which had less to do then BW.
Post game wasn't really as problematic in BW, and I'm not sure what you mean by "single player options".
I'm not sure what you mean by the first statement, and as for single player options, I meant things like the optional areas that you mentioned, activities and legendaries that you have access to on your own without the need of multiplayer options. Though thinking about it, I guess most of those factor into post game anyway.
Ah, you mean replay value. Yeah, 5th gen didn't have either of those problems.
 
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Re: Generation 5 - Worst generation?

Not really Gen 5 I seen the drop in the quality for me. It was Gen 4 which was bad for me. The Pokemon were too cluttered and too many evolutions, the manga was pitiful at best and the anime had the most sketchy characters (and music) for me. Even the Pokemon didn't seem as good.

For me Gen 5 had a more interesting plot line, a lot more Pokemon I liked and the anime episodes were a little better (as well as the music again). I've not seen the manga so I don't know about that but overall Gen 5 was better.
 
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Re: Generation 5 - Worst generation?

The towns weren't up to much in all honesty. I agree with you on that one though I believe the gyms, pokemon and sequels were good though. BW2 were good in their own right with continuing the story, the pokemon were excellent, way better than Gen 4 and 6 and easily up to 1, 2 and 3.
 
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Re: Generation 5 - Worst generation?

Personally for me, I really dislike Generation 5.
I mean the manga took a drop in quality for me, the anime became painful to watch, and the games where not as enjoyable as the previous generations.
Thankfully I'm loving Generation 6 so far, so yay!

But I want to know what you guys think, did you guys notice a big drop in enjoyment/quality in Generation 5?
I don't know about the anime and the manga, but the game? No way!

Please specify the basis of your claim that the Gen V is the worst generation?

For me the worst is Gen VI(no offense, and not looking at the new gameplay and graphics) because of the following:

1. GYM LEADERS! I hate them! They are not challenging as I thought they should be. Having 2 Pokemon only??? Cmon!
2. NO STRICT RIVALRY! Unlike Gen I to Gen V, rivalry is always an issue. But it seems Selena(Calem in case you chose Serena as your playable character) always withdrawing to Calem in terms of story. Also, Serena's Pokemon is not that challenging(I chose Fennekin, so there's a Flareon, a Flareon??? Cmon!) unlike other rivals in the previous Gens.
3. THAT FIREWORK SCENE! For me that's the worst part of the game.
4. POOR CHOICES OF POST-GAME LEGENDS(with the exception of Mewtwo)! I like the Trio-Birds, no doubt about that. But we've been catching them for several games already. Also Zygarde..is the Heatran-version of Gen VI.
5. THE MAPS! Its killing me. It is not as detailed as Gen V.

Though there are also several reason why Gen VI is a good game(example is the new breeding system and the Horde encounter). But for me Gen V game has the most versatile story and most hold-on-your-seat moments both for B/W and B2/W2. Not to mention that their Legends is the most decent batch of Legends of all Gens.
 
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Borderland Sword
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Re: Generation 5 - Worst generation?

I wouldn't call Gen V the worst Generation, as that's personally Gen II for me. But I do agree with you. The Anime was complete ass, the manga was incredibly dull for me, and the story of the games was just kinda...meh. Unova just wasn't a very stand-out region. Gen V wasn't terrible, but I do agree, I did feel a large drop in quality for it.
 
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Metagame is completely optional, there's no reason to complain about that. The lack of things to do in post game, on the other hand...
That's the thing, though. If they pare the postgame down so much that there literally isn't anything else to do but breed/EV train and start battling other people, either through Wi-Fi or a battling facility, then the metagame isn't quite so "optional," is it? At the very least, it's being heavily encouraged over everything else, and that isn't fair for people who have no interest in it.
 
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Re: Generation 5 - Worst generation?

I will agree that the anime and manga dropped quality in Gen V. Ash became a noob and the Adventures just didn't really match up to what it used to be. Still, Black remains as one of my favorite games of all time. I know "Gen V" refers to the franchise as a whole, I believe the games are still the most important parts, and I feel like they nailed it perfectly. I enjoyed it immensely because the first two games had great story and music, my two favorite qualities in a video game. Perhaps this let me overlook and/or excuse the flaws everyone else seems to bemoan, and this might've raised my expectations for other sources of media too high. The sequels weren't the best ever, but really, if they'd done a third game, we would've gotten the same complaints from the people who hated Emerald and Platinum.

tl;dr: The games are the most important part of the generation, and I think Gen V's games were great. Therefore, I believe Gen V is not the worst.
 
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Metagame is completely optional, there's no reason to complain about that. The lack of things to do in post game, on the other hand...
That's the thing, though. If they pare the postgame down so much that there literally isn't anything else to do but breed/EV train and start battling other people, either through Wi-Fi or a battling facility, then the metagame isn't quite so "optional," is it? At the very least, it's being heavily encouraged over everything else, and that isn't fair for people who have no interest in it.
Nothing is forcing you to use any of those features, you don't have to use those facilities to beat the game. You're complaining about the wrong aspect of this.
 
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Re: Generation 5 - Worst generation?

Gen V is my favorite generation so far. I will admit that the anime and manga had some questionable quality issues in regards to what they gave us, but I don't give them the same weight of importance as the games.

My reason for loving Gen V is that they had us using Pokemon that we were not used to. I liked that, as I play the newer games to experience these brand-new Pokemon so I can get a feel for them. If I wanted to play with nothing but old-school Pokemon, I would play the older games. That was one of my problems with Gen VI. Yeah, there were Mega Evolutions, but still, you had plenty of Pokemon that didn't evolve into Mega Evolution forms that could be caught throughout the Kalos region. I also loved the Unova region and the change in seasons. That was a lot of fun to experience. They also didn't feel rushed like Gen VI. They obviously put a lot more thought into Gen V, and the difficulty of these games were actually a lot more challenging rather than super easy like what was given in X and Y.

So, do I have any negative criticisms for Gen V? Er... well, yeah, I do. The sequels could have been better, I'm not going to lie. I guess it was because Black and White were really good games to me so they were a tough act to follow. Unlike Platinum which fixed what was broken in Diamond and Pearl, Black 2 and White 2 seemed to fix what wasn't broken, resulting in a game that felt very bland to play. Don't get me wrong as I liked the sequels, but I didn't feel they were as good as Black and White. Black and White themselves suffered from a story that was a little tough to follow. It seemed to jump from one thing to another instead of being fairly straightforward, and I was not a fan of that (yet I still liked it, funny that). I also really hated the big bad of the generation, Ghetsis. He just didn't seem like a character who fit in with the Pokemon world, and with his introduction, I was really afraid Game Freak was going to try to outdo his character by creating an even darker story in newer generations.

I know a lot of people dislike Generation V, and I am okay with that. Personally, I really disliked Generation II. We are not all going to agree with each other on what we consider the best or not, but this is just my opinion on Gen V. Who knows? Maybe Generation VII will outdo Gen V for me, but I'll have to wait and see. =)
 
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Nothing is forcing you to use any of those features, you don't have to use those facilities to beat the game. You're complaining about the wrong aspect of this.
Then, please, do tell me a postgame alternative to competitive battling in XY. And, no, you can't say Dex completion.
 
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