Why do people miss the Battle Frontier?

[Mythra]

I want to know why the fanbase has been so opposed to the removal of the Battle Frontier. I've heard complaints regarding both ORAS and BDSP but those are RS and DP remakes respectively, not Emerald and Platinum remakes. A Battle Tower, or equivalent appears to suffice for simulated battles in a controlled environment. Is it nostalgia? Is it another reason? I want to know.

 

[Greninjaman]

I suspect that it's because they found it fun because it wasn't just a breeze to do. I personally didn't do much with it, though I did do them (both in Emerald and Platinum).

 

[Lord Kyuubi]

It gives me something to do in the postgame, and more reason and motivation to keep raising more Pokemon. I enjoy planning and raising semi-optimised Pokemon, thinking about their movesets, and finally putting them into action, but if there's nowhere else for them to fight than the Battle Maison, that eventually gets stale. Having a range of different facilities means this doesn't happen as quickly - if you're tired of one facility, there's a different gimmick you could be applying to make the battles fresh again. Or if you want a simple fight, the Battle Tower is always still there alongside all the gimmick battles.

I guess the short answer is it just gives you more options for how you enjoy the game, which is something I find important in this series.

 

[Greninjaman]

You know, maybe I didn't enjoy the Battle Frontier because I didn't care much for the competitive scene.

 

[Daren]

The Frontier had vastly better variety than the Battle Tower--the tower is just a series of standard battles with nothing special going on.

It was also a major element of those generations (it was a big selling point of Emerald that they devoted an entire year to it in the anime and most of the gen 4 games had it) so that one would hope a remake of those generations to try to be definitive like HG/SS were, but GameFreak left out such an important element of them.

 

[colours]

/cracks knuckles

IT'S MY TIME TO SHINE

so, i'm someone who misses the battle frontier dearly. each and every subsequent generation, i crave for some sort of post-game challenge or battle facility or even something that can compare to what the frontier had, and i've... not really been that impressed? aside from gen 5's PWT, i don't think any main series' pokemon game's postgame has ever really drawn me in like battle frontier has. but let's get to the actual point: i can't speak for anyone else, but why does battle frontier matter to me in particular?

well, to give a more complete picture, we're going to have to take some steps back and ask a different question: why do people like challenge runs? it can be for multiple reasons. for example, the most obvious is that, well.. it's for the challenge. some people do them for the added difficulty factor that the games don't really provide. some people just do it for fun, but i think most can agree that there's creativity involved in challenge runs. take nuzlockes, for example. there's so many variations of how to nuzlocke a pokemon game and i bet anyone who has ever watched a challenge streamer has even witnessed some people adding their own custom rules to it. it may very well add to the difficulty, but to the individual, that's what makes it fun. nuzlockes aren't even the only challenges out there. there's solo runs, monotype runs... you get the picture. there's varied ways ones can self-restrict themselves on progressing pokemon games for the challenge and entertainment factor.

i'm sure by mentioning this, you can follow my train of thought on how this relates to the battle frontier of old.

let's start with emerald, as it's where, iirc the frontier made its first appearance (and i think it best illustrates why i have such a soft spot for the frontier). now i'm going to preface this before i say anything else: the battle frontier is obviously not everyone's cup of tea. it's fine to dislike it, i know some people don't see the point in it and aren't big battlers like that, but it's in a similar vein to challenge runs. not everyone does them, not everyone cares. that's fine. but i digress.

hoenn's battle frontier has seven facilities, each with its own little "restrictions", as it were, is the best way i can word it. i think to make things clear, i'd have to go into exactly what they are and what those restrictions consist of. i'm not going to go into every single facility, but for some examples:

• battle factory: you battle only with rented pokemon, not your own. this adds an interesting element of strategy because you're likely given pokemon that you may not be comfortable with, with movesets you're also not familiar on how to use. the general gist is that you make do with what you're given, but you are given opportunities to swap out your rental pokemon for any one of the pokemon of the trainer you just defeated if you're not a fan of one. this also adds a layer of teambuilding of sorts if a trainer has a pokemon that you think would be overall beneficial to your team.

• battle arena: admittedly, i don't think i've touched the battle arena all that much, but to my recollection, two pokemon are set against each other for a specific number of rounds, and whichever pokemon "performs" the best, wins the battle overall. it's rather weird in how it functions, but i think a better way to think about this is facility rewards offensive strategy and not much else. the general gist of this is that performance is based on a couple of factors:
  • - whether a pokemon initiates an offensive move
  • - whether a pokemon hits the opposing pokemon super-effectively
  • - whether a pokemon misses their move or not (this deducts points)
  • - whether a pokemon hits another for not very effective damage (i think this deducts points as well?)
  • - remaining HP

​

so basically, as long as you're not super reckless and consider your moves carefully, you're likely to be fine here.

• battle palace: i think battle palace is rather unique and one of my favourites, because in this facility, you don't give your pokemon commands. at all. what moves your pokemon chooses is entirely based on their nature, and each nature has a specific percentage of how likely they are to use a certain move. it... sounds confusing when explained that way, but i think going over this page would give a better idea. it's one of my favourites because it's such a unique way of battling that hasn't ever really been re-introduced in any subsequent pokemon games. i think it's really interesting to have a battle mode where pokemon react completely of theri own volition and see how things play out.

---

what i'm trying to get across with these examples is that the battle frontier itches a similar scratch that challenge runs do: because each and every single one of them impose some sort of different restriction on the player, and it's that very "restriction", that makes the frontier enjoyable and fun. it adds a layer of difficulty and strategy that hasn't really been emulated much in any of the games where the frontier isn't in (PWT is a slight exception but i'm not going into that rn). i respect that it's not everyone's taste because not everyone cares or is interested, but i think for me, the creative battle restrictions introduced in battle frontier will always be one of the best memories i've had in pokemon gaming, because there's nothing really quite like it. every other game has battle tower or battle tower esque rules where it's essentially 3-on-3 and i think that's fine, but to me it's not as... interesting or fun or anywhere near as entertaining as the conditions imposed on the player on the different battle facilities.

hopefully i've gotten this across in a way that's understandable and whew this was long but i think it kinda had to be to get the details across.

 

[Storm Aurora]

As someone who finds standard Pokémon battles to be pretty boring and has zero interest in competitive, I enjoyed the Battle Frontiers because they gave me a chance to battle in unique ways. Especially since, when I was a kid, I didn't know the first thing about team-building or training competitively viable Pokémon or whatnot, so the gimmicks of the Battle Frontier facilities gave me the chance to even the playing field a little. In the Battle Arcade, you can use the roulette wheel to give your team an advantage or give the opposing team a disadvantage. In the Battle Factory, you don't have to train your own Pokémon at all! In other battle facilities, each individual battle is pretty boring to me, and the highlight is just when you reach one of the bosses. But in a Battle Frontier facility, each battle has the potential to be interesting. So I'd much rather go back to the Battle Arcade or the Battle Pyramid than the 5th Battle Tower in a row.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I feel the Battle Frontier's popularity is overrated. Sure it's great, but Emerald and Platinum sold way less than their unenhanced counterparts, and not everyone who played those games even went through the Battle Frontier. In other words, yes, there are people who like the Battle Frontier, and I can hardly blame them for liking it, but I believe those people belong in the loud minority of Pokémon fans.

 

[Tood]

I'm rather neutral on whether or not a Battle Frontier should come back.

I think facilities are a bit boring to me when they just involve plain battling (i.e. tower/dome), but I really like the weird RNG facilities like the Factory/Arcade/Pike. Seeing the different modes of battle that the devs can come up with is also cool. Facilities like the Arena and Palace are just so out there, it's a shame that not much else was done with those battle concepts.

But tbh I can see why some people couldn't care less about the BF returning. Like, breeding/IV training are major turnoffs for a lot of people (including me), and they're essentially prerequisites to even get the chance to see any of the facility heads. And I feel there is too little of a reward to justify going through literal dozens of battles in a row.

Like, it would be nice to have the frontier back for those that want it, but I'm not praying for its return or anything.

 

[FelipePR]

A Battle Tower, or equivalent appears to suffice for simulated battles in a controlled environment. Is it nostalgia? Is it another reason? I want to know.

The issue is that in the current generation we don't even have a Battle Tower or something equivalent. It's possible that they'll add this to Indigo Disk, but then we're talking about DLC.

In other words, everyone who advocates in favor of the Battle Frontier is, in fact, pleading for everyone to have the right to access simulated forms of battle in a controlled environment.

It's absurd to think that, today, if a person is interested in this, they should turn to fan projects, like Pokémon Showdown, instead of official games or programs, right?

I feel the Battle Frontier's popularity is overrated. Sure it's great, but Emerald and Platinum sold way less than their unenhanced counterparts, and not everyone who played those games even went through the Battle Frontier. In other words, yes, there are people who like the Battle Frontier, and I can hardly blame them for liking it, but I believe those people belong in the loud minority of Pokémon fans.

In a way, you're probably right. The majority of Pokémon's fanbase, as with almost every game itself, tends to be made up of casual players, who are not interested in delving deeply into battle mechanics and gimmicks, but just enjoy the game.

Still, Pokémon Battles are one of the main elements of the franchise, featuring a competitive environment that is encouraged by the Pokémon Company itself. So, it is not surprising that there is a vocal minority demanding access to simulated forms of battle in a controlled environment, as well as more diversity in this regard.

Personally, I have the impression that the overwhelming majority of people invested in battle gimmicks are also big fans of the game franchise, that is, people quite passionated by the games and their core mechanics, which is why they are quite vocal.

Finally, what constitutes a minority within a franchise boasting tens of thousands of supporters? It is certainly not a tiny number which can easily be dismissed, and labeling them as a 'loud minority' would be unfair and disregarding. After all, we are not dealing with an electoral dispute here, there is no necessary choice between A or B, but rather a request for A+B.

And as said, the simple fact that these fans have a continuous and grandiose battle simulator project running, for more than a decade, in parallel to the original games, demonstrates that there is enough demand and interest of players for that Game Freak to invest more in simulated forms of battle in a controlled environment.

 

[Daren]

I feel the Battle Frontier's popularity is overrated. Sure it's great, but Emerald and Platinum sold way less than their unenhanced counterparts, and not everyone who played those games even went through the Battle Frontier. In other words, yes, there are people who like the Battle Frontier, and I can hardly blame them for liking it, but I believe those people belong in the loud minority of Pokémon fans.

Respectfully, "loud minority" is a weak way to dismiss criticism; it's unfalsifiable because you just say any evidence it's widespread is just because it's loud.
I could just easily say that people okay with it being gone are a loud minority and that 95% of players want it back but not enough to fully stop buying the games over.
Indeed, if you go by sales I could say everything past Red and Blue (the best sellers) is superfluous and GF could remove them all and any complaints would just be a loud minority.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Respectfully, "loud minority" is a weak way to dismiss criticism; it's unfalsifiable because you just say any evidence it's widespread is just because it's loud.
I could just easily say that people okay with it being gone are a loud minority and that 95% of players want it back but not enough to fully stop buying the games over.
Indeed, if you go by sales I could say everything past Red and Blue (the best sellers) is superfluous and GF could remove them all and any complaints would just be a loud minority.

Red and Blue are just above the rest. Other Pokémon games have also sold well. It's just that the third versions and remakes tend to sell less than the original versions. Battle Frontier is just popular thanks to things like the anime, but the number of people who actually played it is not that high, when considering how much Emerald sold and how not all people who played it played through the Battle Frontier.

 

[Daren]

Battle Frontier is just popular thanks to things like the anime, but the number of people who actually played it is not that high,

Emerald apparently sold about 7,000,000; that's not a small number, and it was before games used achievements to spy on what players were doing so we really have no idea what percent of Emerald players did the BF--I can't imagine most didn't at least try it out a little even if they never 100% completed it (and based off stats for other games we get from those achievement tracking? I suspect we'd all be surprised how many people buy every Pokémon game and don't beat the Elite Four--it seems most people never finish a significant number of games they buy). To put things in perspective Emerald apparently sold better than any Dragon Quest game, which is a megahit series in Japan that has it's own theme park over there. Plenty of people played the Battle Frontier.

Additionally, I find it easy to imagine people who wanted it back without having owned Emerald; maybe they caught the BF anime arc on reruns and wanted a chance to try it out for themselves, or simply think remakes shouldn't selectively cut content.

 

[Adelon]

I never got the appeal of the Battle Frontier, tbh, the anime made it seem more fun than it actually was in-game when you had to spend weeks painstakingly creating a competitive team while the AI would blatantly cheat by giving its Pokemon impossible abilities and moves. And the most annoying aspect for me was that Pokemon seen in the Battle Frontier don't count as seen in the Pokedex which meant I couldn't even use it to get access to more Pokemon on the GTS.