SwSh Why is the reception for Sword and Shield so polarizing?

[Cresselia92]

I really appreciate this balanced perspective on things. Regardless of the current situation, I really hope Game Freak takes the criticism and does something about it in the future. It could be this gen with a patch, or it could mean Gen 9 has a full National Dex and is absolutely incredible.

I feel like the National Dex will be more and more of a pipe dream as the series goes on.

Someone has posted this on another forum I follow, which is very enlightening about the whole National Dex issue.

Spoiler

View: https://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/186632316431/what-do-you-think-about-the-pokemon-sword-and

 

[Homulily1026]

I’d just like to ask why the idea of Game Freak possibly being burnt down due to BBND and internet outrage from fans was even brought up. That’s not something that would happen. Ever. Why???????

 

[DarkraiKnight]

I’d just like to ask why the idea of Game Freak possibly being burnt down due to BBND and internet outrage from fans was even brought up. That’s not something that would happen. Ever. Why???????

Hey, if KyoAni -- one of the most beloved anime studios -- could fall victim to a terrorist attack, I'd say that Game Freak or TPCi could experience one given how a lot of people these days are livid with them.

Even so, I hope such an event doesn't happen.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

View: https://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/186632316431/what-do-you-think-about-the-pokemon-sword-and

This is mostly a guess answer, though-they offers possible explanations for how Switch hardware might be different from 3DS, but they don't say that they know it as a fact. And it wouldn't explain the removal of Kanto Pokemon who already had their models set up for the Switch in LGPE.

Also, the idea that Game Freak, of all companies, can't afford to hire more employees is...doubtful.

 

[Homulily1026]

Hey, if KyoAni -- one of the most beloved anime studios -- could fall victim to a terrorist attack, I'd say that Game Freak or TPCi could experience one given how a lot of people these days are livid with them.

Even so, I hope such an event doesn't happen.

It can happen to anyone and happen anywhere, but I don’t see TPCi and GF getting set on fire anytime (or ever, for that matter) soon. That dumb shut-in who burned the studio down did it because he thought one of KyoAni’s anime “stole” his idea lmao.

 

[Battista]

This is mostly a guess answer, though-they offers possible explanations for how Switch hardware might be different from 3DS, but they don't say that they know it as a fact. And it wouldn't explain the removal of Kanto Pokemon who already had their models set up for the Switch in LGPE.

Also, the idea that Game Freak, of all companies, can't afford to hire more employees is...doubtful.
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That's why, even though I'm not a fan of the way some people go about it, I don't want to stifle the criticism. If Game Freak is smart, they WILL take what's being said seriously and step it up in the future, regardless of copies sold or if all the Pokemon reunite.

I do need to check out that article again. I was looking for it earlier but the internet I'm on has it blocked Thanks @Cresselia92

 

[Lunala]

I thought the real answer was already given: Crunch.

 

[Phosphene]

Hey, if KyoAni -- one of the most beloved anime studios -- could fall victim to a terrorist attack, I'd say that Game Freak or TPCi could experience one given how a lot of people these days are livid with them.

The Kyoto Animation arson attack is an isolated incident committed under specific circumstances not pertaining to fan outrage. It's not like there has been a string of terrorist attacks on companies by angered fans. While there's definitely a chance, abit very low, that GameFreak could be the victim of such an attack, I wouldn't use the KyoAni arson attack as definitive proof that GameFreak is in danger of being attacked by outraged fans.

 

[DarkraiKnight]

The Kyoto Animation arson attack is an isolated incident committed under specific circumstances not pertaining to fan outrage. It's not like there has been a string of terrorist attacks on companies by angered fans. While there's definitely a chance, abit very low, that GameFreak could be the victim of such an attack, I wouldn't use the KyoAni arson attack as definitive proof that GameFreak is in danger of being attacked by outraged fans.

I suppose you're right.

 

[Pyrax]

Some people just have impossibly high expectations for the games just because they are now on a home console and cost 50% more.

To be fair, Switch games are £45. Of course not every franchise has to reinvent itself like Mario or Zelda did, but you'd expect a good amount of content and quality with that price, especially on a home console. Masuda's promise of high quality animations in E3 also likely raised expectations quite a bit.

Agreed. Which makes me upset that whenever people try to bring these valid points up, reasonably, it's mischaracterized as unnecessary complaining and a toxic attitude.

SwSh's prerelease is a far cry from SM's where most people didn't mind as much whether or not you like the games imo. Both camps are getting louder and more toxic, even moreso after the leaks and datamines.

It's okay to have high expectations. Especially for the highest-grossing media franchise in the world.

Precisely. SwSh (and Town) have the potential to be very good games, but Masuda's hesitancy to expand Gamefreak and his thoughts on kids' attention spans and mobile games are doing more harm than good. The likes of Odyssey and Breath of the Wild (or Devil May Cry 5 to name a more recent example) were made with much larger teams, so Masuda's claim of communication problems doesn't hold a lot of water in my opinion.

 

[Cresselia92]

This is mostly a guess answer, though-they offers possible explanations for how Switch hardware might be different from 3DS, but they don't say that they know it as a fact. And it wouldn't explain the removal of Kanto Pokemon who already had their models set up for the Switch in LGPE.

Also, the idea that Game Freak, of all companies, can't afford to hire more employees is...doubtful.
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The matter is not that they can’t, but more that TPCi offers a strict budget for each game that takes in consideration demand, revenue, potential profit and a lot of other factors. And GF has to make use of that limited budget.

This is the same thing that happens for movies as well, and any other media. You get what you get, and make the most use out of the budget you receive. If things go over the budget, stuff is unfortunately scrapped.

Sure, you could say that TPCi is spoiled rich and could afford to bump the budget to meet higher standards, but you have to remember something: they are a company. Their aim is to maximize profits with the least cost, and they won’t spend any extra penny just because a minority outside of their target customers — aka, children and young teens — tells them they can spend more. That’s not how business works.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

The matter is not that they can’t, but more that TPCi offers a strict budget for each game that takes in consideration demand, revenue, potential profit and a lot of other factors. And GF has to make use of that limited budget.

This is the same thing that happens for movies as well, and any other media. You get what you get, and make the most use out of the budget you receive. If things go over the budget, stuff is unfortunately scrapped.

Game Freak is one of the owners of the Pokemon Company-I have a hard time seeing why their hands would be tied here.

Sure, you could say that TPCi is spoiled rich and could afford to bump the budget to meet higher standards, but you have to remember something: they are a company. Their aim is to maximize profits with the least cost, and they won’t spend any extra penny just because a minority outside of their target customers — aka, children and young teens — tells them they can spend more. That’s not how business works.

And the goal of consumers is to get the most products for the least cost, and you can't expect people to be happy with a price increase accompanied by a cut in content. That's not how business works, either.

 

[Aulos]

This is mostly a guess answer, though-they offers possible explanations for how Switch hardware might be different from 3DS, but they don't say that they know it as a fact. And it wouldn't explain the removal of Kanto Pokemon who already had their models set up for the Switch in LGPE.

Also, the idea that Game Freak, of all companies, can't afford to hire more employees is...doubtful.
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The thought process with the removal of a lot of Kanto Pokemon even though they're all in LGP/E most likely was to round out the roster. If they included all Kanto Pokemon and Pokemon were cut from other generations can you believe how bad that would look? GF already goes so far with Gen I pandering and even overblew it in the advertising cycle. While this technically wouldn't have been Gen I pandering because it'd just be transferring data over from LGP/E (which was Kanto pandering to the extreme, so second-hand Kanto pandering if they had all been transferred, I guess? lol), it sure as heck would look really bad and a lot of us would be even more unhappy even though it would have meant more Pokemon.

Sometimes things are complicated like that.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

The thought process with the removal of a lot of Kanto Pokemon even though they're all in LGP/E most likely was to round out the roster. If they included all Kanto Pokemon and Pokemon were cut from other generations can you believe how bad that would look? GF already goes so far with Gen I pandering and even overblew it in the advertising cycle. While this technically wouldn't have been Gen I pandering because it'd just be transferring data over from LGP/E (which was Kanto pandering to the extreme, so second-hand Kanto pandering if they had all been transferred, I guess? lol), it sure as heck would look really bad and a lot of us would be even more unhappy even though it would have meant more Pokemon.

Sometimes things are complicated like that.

If Game Freak wasn't bothered enough by the complaints about the dex cut, why would they be bothered by the smaller group of fans that complain about Kanto pandering? LGPE set records for sales even as people complained about the Gen 1 focus in it, so it's clear that the number of fans unbothered by the idea is much, much larger than the number of fans who are.

 

[Emelie]

Maybe it is not just the cut Pokémon that upset people but rather the direction that GameFreak seems to be heading in. They are trying to compete with mobile games by making Pokémon games that don't require a longer attention span.

If you have a short attention span and are distracted by your phone you won't complete the National Dex, reset for shiny starters, breed/train for good Pokémon with good IVs/EVs or use the Battle Frontier.

The new anime season seems to be heading in that direction too since they apparently decided to make every episode a stand alone and avoid having longer story arcs. The reason for this is that they changed the time slot to Sunday and they are assuming that kids won't watch it every week because they are occupied by other things.

The problem with this is that us older and more hardcore fans get a game that is simplified which feels unsatisfactory because we aren't looking for a casual mobile game experience, we want something more to bite into and aren't used to this.

When Game Freak focus on pleasing the half of the fanbase who want a casual mobile game experience, the other half that have been loyal for a long time and want something more hardcore feels ignored, hence the outcry.

 

[Phosphene]

breed/train for good Pokémon with good IVs/EVs or use the Battle Frontier.

I would like to note here that most people really like these additions, even people who are highly critical of the games otherwise.

 

[Knightwolf09]

Esserise hit the nail on the head as always, so I'll just add my two cents.

Let me spin this question back around to you. I'm genuinely asking - not to pick on you or call you out or anything, you seem like a good-hearted guy. Why are you posting and defending Sword & Shield? You've said it before how you hate these debates and how much they upset you. Is it not out of love the franchise? Are you not motivated by the love you have for Pokemon, and a want to see it succeed and be the best it can be?

I complain because I care. I complain because it's good to get things off my chest. I complain because complaining with friends is fun. I complain because I can have intellectual discussions with people who disagree with me. I complain because that's something people need to do sometimes. I complain because in an ideal world, it would lead to Nintendo listening to me and improving in the future. Our complaints could also serve as warnings, telling outsiders about what they can expect if they choose to fall into this franchise.

I can answer your questions easily. I defend these games cause I feel they don't deserve the flack it's getting. I see them as genuine improvements while majority here (at least I only think it's the majority) completely undermine those improvements cause it's not "better", and that all everybody talks about. And the moment I say we should think more positively I get the opinion card thrown in my face, or I'm suddenly part of the for pokemon for liking their work. When I'm just as big of a lover for pokemon as anybody here. I defend it BECAUSE I know it's succeeding when others only see it as failing cause of decisions they don't like. Especially when SOME of the dislikes are mostly nitpicks at best. So I fight because I want my opinions to be heard as well instead of being shoved aside or undermined because my opinion doesn't match theirs. Like a child being shoved aside to let the grown ups talk.

PS: Thank you for saying I'm a nice guy despite previous spats

 

[Cresselia92]

Game Freak is one of the owners of the Pokemon Company-I have a hard time seeing why their hands would be tied here.

Well, the investors have their influence on that, whether we like it or not. They surely don’t care about emotions being stomped or fans complaining. At least, not to the degree we would wish. They want profits, and Pokémon is very profitable even with a moderate budget.

And, really, you can’t build a 200.000$ house if your investor gives you a budget of 100.000$.

And the goal of consumers is to get the most products for the least cost, and you can't expect people to be happy with a price increase accompanied by a cut in content. That's not how business works, either.

That’s the standard pricing of the Switch games, though. Just a look at the eShop should be proof enough of that. Like… Super Mario Odyssey, Super Mario Maker 2 and Luigi’s Mansion 3 have the exact same pricing despite being vastly different in terms of content and graphics.

Besides, we have no clue how expensive is working on a Switch game in comparison to working on a 3DS game. The way I see it, part of the increased cost may go in tandem with the increased costs of software, hardware and programs to create and code the games.

They already have crunch time issues and tight schedules, imagine having to break their backs just to try to fulfill demands that they can’t fulfill due to limited budget.

We can go on and on about them having to do this or that to get better games and “what we and the company deserves”, but really… we don’t know how things go behind the scenes. It surely isn’t as easy to do as it is to say.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

So I fight because I want my opinions to be heard as well instead of being shoved aside or undermined because my opinion doesn't match theirs. Like a child being shoved aside to let the big kids talk.

You told people not to talk about their opinions just three days ago.

No offense, but none out of you this time Tech. Actually experiencing for one self is much better than watching. Many will agree.

And do you genuinely think there's absolutely no way for people to enjoy these games? If not why are you and anybody here to talk about it?

 

[Emelie]

I would like to note here that most people really like these additions, even people who are highly critical of the games otherwise.

I guess one good thing about these improvements is that people with shorter attention spans might try playing competetively if it is easier to get good natures and IVs/EVs. Question is if they will keep the mechanic at all in the future?

I think they cut Pokémon because they assumed that the casual fanbase wouldn't use all of them. While it also eases their workload a little, they might have reasoned differently if the older hardcore players were the target audience. If there were less casual fans maybe Game Freak would have focused on different things.