BDSP Why the hate for Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl

[Beer&Nyquil]

Sure seems like you were bothered by someone using that label lol

 

[Bolt Strike]

My only complaint with them is that they are fourth generation Pokémon games. A real Pokémon remake should be updated to the latter generation, just like Heart Gold, Soul Silver, Alpha Sapphire and Omega Ruby showed us... and in a flawless way.

I wouldn't exactly call ORAS "flawless" when it has basically no Emerald content. Really I don't think any of them are (they're all too conservative in their own ways), but the only one that's remotely close is HGSS.

 

[Bluemew1512]

I wouldn't exactly call ORAS "flawless" when it has basically no Emerald content. Really I don't think any of them are (they're all too conservative in their own ways), but the only one that's remotely close is HGSS.

Even then, HGSS are still flawed games - the level curve is trash for instance and they haven't really resolved the issue of not being enough Gen II Pokemon in Johto, although there was at least an attempt.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

i don't really get the criticism that gen 2 mons were hard to obtain in HGSS. sure, it was a problem in GSC, but by the time HGSS came out, these pokemon were no longer new. there wasn't much need to show them off.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Even then, HGSS are still flawed games - the level curve is trash for instance and they haven't really resolved the issue of not being enough Gen II Pokemon in Johto, although there was at least an attempt.

Well, the level curve is partially unfixable because of the two region system, but they could've at least done something like they did with the 2nd gen Pokemon not being available in Johto. That's not even my biggest complaint with HGSS though, I wasn't super bothered by the level curve.

My issue with HGSS, which applies to every remake as well, is their unwillingness to expand the regional dexes (beyond the handful of cross gen evos added in HGSS and ORAS). The earlier dexes are all heavily flawed because of variety issues that existed at the time, primarily the lack of variety of rare types such as Ghost and Dragon. But while I can give the older games a pass because they didn't have much choice, the remakes DO have a choice and still choose to ignore it, leaving the remakes subjected to the same variety problems despite having sufficient options to fix it now. I'm sick of the nostalgia getting in the way of this, it breaks that feeling if you recycle the game's flaws along with its merits.

i don't really get the criticism that gen 2 mons were hard to obtain in HGSS. sure, it was a problem in GSC, but by the time HGSS came out, these pokemon were no longer new. there wasn't much need to show them off.

It's not just about showing off the new Pokemon but actually getting to use them on your team. If they're still made unavailable until Kanto you won't be able to make much use of them.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

It's not just about showing off the new Pokemon but actually getting to use them on your team. If they're still made unavailable until Kanto you won't be able to make much use of them.

there's always pokemon that aren't available until late-game (i consider Kanto late-game and not postgame; the game ends when you beat Red). again, these mons weren't new anymore and in most cases there's already been plenty of opportunities to use them on your team in older games.

 

[Mr. MoonStone]

IIRC, most of the Gen 2 Pokémon that were exclusive to Kanto were made available in the HGSS Safari Zone so there was a way to still use those on your team before the Elite 4.

I agree though - I think the level curve in both games is a mess, even though they’re among my favorite games. I get the idea of spacing things out (where the game isn’t over until you beat Red), but it’s execution leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Bluemew1512]

My issue with HGSS, which applies to every remake as well, is their unwillingness to expand the regional dexes (beyond the handful of cross gen evos added in HGSS and ORAS). The earlier dexes are all heavily flawed because of variety issues that existed at the time, primarily the lack of variety of rare types such as Ghost and Dragon. But while I can give the older games a pass because they didn't have much choice, the remakes DO have a choice and still choose to ignore it, leaving the remakes subjected to the same variety problems despite having sufficient options to fix it now. I'm sick of the nostalgia getting in the way of this, it breaks that feeling if you recycle the game's flaws along with its merits.



It's not just about showing off the new Pokemon but actually getting to use them on your team. If they're still made unavailable until Kanto you won't be able to make much use of them.

Yeah, that is my biggest problem. It's at its worst in FR/LG, where they won't even let you evolve a Pokemon who has a non-Gen 1 evolution until post-game, but HG/SS could have benefitted from letting you get cross-gen evos easier (no, I do not want to trade over a stone just so I can evolve my Togetic).

 

[Bolt Strike]

Yeah, that is my biggest problem. It's at its worst in FR/LG, where they won't even let you evolve a Pokemon who has a non-Gen 1 evolution until post-game, but HG/SS could have benefitted from letting you get cross-gen evos easier (no, I do not want to trade over a stone just so I can evolve my Togetic).

Again, it goes beyond cross gen evos, they only get you so far in fixing the problem. What can they really do about some of the gym leader/Elite 4 rosters like Morty, Clair, and Lance when there's only 2 freaking Ghost and Dragon families in the original 251? What about the players that want to monotype Ghost or Dragon but oops, you just get the 2 families until you beat the game? Even cross gen evos can't make up the difference there. They need to throw in some new families from 3rd gen or later to give the game sufficient variety.

 

[Bluemew1512]

Again, it goes beyond cross gen evos, they only get you so far in fixing the problem. What can they really do about some of the gym leader/Elite 4 rosters like Morty, Clair, and Lance when there's only 2 freaking Ghost and Dragon families in the original 251? What about the players that want to monotype Ghost or Dragon but oops, you just get the 2 families until you beat the game? Even cross gen evos can't make up the difference there. They need to throw in some new families from 3rd gen or later to give the game sufficient variety.

Good point there.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

Again, it goes beyond cross gen evos, they only get you so far in fixing the problem. What can they really do about some of the gym leader/Elite 4 rosters like Morty, Clair, and Lance when there's only 2 freaking Ghost and Dragon families in the original 251? What about the players that want to monotype Ghost or Dragon but oops, you just get the 2 families until you beat the game? Even cross gen evos can't make up the difference there. They need to throw in some new families from 3rd gen or later to give the game sufficient variety.

well, for Morty, they can give him a fucking misdreavus

 

[Bolt Strike]

well, for Morty, they can give him a fucking misdreavus

They could, but he still has 2 other slots to fill and no other choices besides duplicate members of the Gastly and Misdreavus line. Hence it's unfixable without adding in later gen families.

 

[ScottishMeowth]

(Necropost)I know this is a bit late but I kinda don't like on how it's just DP but 3D (i might be wrong cause i haven't played the game), I think it would be good if they bring on the newer pokemon and bring the Gigantamax gimmick to the remake (kinda like how OR/AS brings in mega evolution to the game) i think it would be also great if they gave us more gigantamax pokemon in the remake (like the starters, Torterra would fit as a gigantamax pokemon ngl, and cyrus having something like a g-max gyarados or crobat)

 

[KerfishSea]

That's basically what the distate for them boils down to, that it was just a 1:1 remake of DP with nothing new after a long line of Remakes which added something different to them.