BDSP Why the hate for Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl

[Bolt Strike]

mathematically, the minimum amount of dex entries required for a full team of 6 for every type is 54. of course, that's assuming they're al single stage pokemon and they're all dual-type to get exactly 6 of every type.

Yes, but that's under ideal circumstances of being single stage dual types. And even that would not happen, because you have to have 3 starter lines. And if you add the requirement of "no starters and legendaries" you're adding at least 11 more for that, plus more because of version exclusives. Poor choice of words on my part perhaps for the absolute minimum because that's not practical and will never happen, I'm thinking more of if they can choose single type and multi-stage lines what's the lowest it would take? Sounds like the answer is somewhere between 250 and 300 based on the balance of existing regional dexes (maaaaayyybe you could do a 250 Pokemon Dex that's balanced if you choose the right Pokemon, but the Johto and Hisui Dex are around that number and they have not).

 

[Gengarzilla]

Despite all the obvious and undeniable flaws, I have genuinely not enjoyed playing a new mainline Pokémon game this much since the days of B2W2. It appears that the simplistic, base joy of finally playing through the remake of the game that made me a Pokémon fan was just more important to me than nickpicking away at the several legitimate problems within this entry.

Legends: Arceus obviously blows this one out of the water and straight into orbit, of course, but for what it's worth I'd personally say this was a more worthwhile purchase than the Kalos and Alola games. Your mileage obviously varies though.

 

[Daenerys]

I feel like it would be beating a dead horse to say this at this point, but the graphics are way too basic for my enjoyment especially for Switch games. I'm talking about the overworld of course not the battle scenes. Why they decided to go with that chibi style, I have no idea. Nostalgia can't be the reason because they didn't resort to that gimmick in ORAS yet the world kept spinning anyways.

And there's also the fact that there are barely any changes from the originals. The Sinnoh Dex is the same, the rosters for the most part are the same, etc. The only real additions were some minor post-game stuff and the Underground. That wasn't enough to set these games apart though. And please don't say "that's the point of remakes", because HGSS were a perfect example of how to remake old games while still adding enough new features and gimmicks to make it worth the price tag.

 

[Emelie]

I'm mostly sad about the lack of Platinum content. PLA made me interested in Cynthia again and made me want to go back and revisit those scenes but in order to do that I have to pull out my old DS. It feels weird to have to do that instead of playing the new game that I just bought!

I just saw a younger Japanese fan on Twitter who had to buy a DS to play Platinum because she wanted to see those additional scenes and content and I couldn't help but feel bad. I'm glad that I saved all of my old games and consoles.

Something I'm also sad about is that they didn't use the updated environments from Platinum. Sometimes environmental storytelling can say more than the actual text. Grezzo who made the Zelda remakes understands this, for example they updated the houses to make them feel more lived in.

I think one good example of this would be how Cynthia's grandmother's house looks more like a chise (traditional Ainu house) in Platinum but doesn't in BDSP since it didn't in the original DP. This affects the way I interpret PLA's plot since it does imply some pretty sad stuff about our poor villain especially considering the setting and time period of PLA.

 

[SkyeMcFlye]

I actually really liked BDSP for what they were, but I'm also sad about the lack of Platinum content. I was really looking forward to Distortion World >.<

I do really enjoy the graphics and the chibi characters, and I also liked the unlockable outfits. Also, thanks to the updated Underground I was able to find a Houndour really early which was awesome! She became my contest queen.

 

[Nichole the Otter]

The basics have already been explained, it’s mainly due to the art style and the fact barely any Platinum content got included. It makes Platinum feel even more like the definitive Sinnoh experience even moreso compared to Hoenn where either Emerald or OR/AS was debated as the definitive version.

There was good reason why LA overshadowed it immensely, even from the first day of their reveal.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

The basics have already been explained, it’s mainly due to the art style and the fact barely any Platinum content got included. It makes Platinum feel even more like the definitive Sinnoh experience even moreso compared to Hoenn where either Emerald or OR/AS was debated as the definitive version.

There was good reason why LA overshadowed it immensely, even from the first day of their reveal.

i honestly don't see any of the hoenn games as the definitive version. even the original RS have reasons to play them over Emerald or ORAS. BDSP definitely failed to deliver though; platinum is still the definitive Sinnoh game.

 

[Bolt Strike]

i honestly don't see any of the hoenn games as the definitive version. even the original RS have reasons to play them over Emerald or ORAS. BDSP definitely failed to deliver though; platinum is still the definitive Sinnoh game.

And those are? Honestly can't see anything RS did better than both Emerald AND ORAS.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

And those are? Honestly can't see anything RS did better than both Emerald AND ORAS.

unpopular opinion, but it did the story better imo. Emerald shoved a few extra team magma encounters in, which hurt the pacing and made it super weird when nobody cared that groudon was at large. ORAS pushed the chosen one narrative a bit too hard, with steven saying in meteor falls that you're champion material and the legendary letting us ride it. also, ORAS felt the need to shove Brendan in everywhere even though he usually added nothing to the scene.

 

[Norzan]

Emerald fixed some of the dumb shit from RS like a water based team blowing up a volcano thinking it somehow would turn into a hole to be filled with water for pokemon (and not just spill out magma and increase landmass) and a fire based team going UNDERWATER to try to find a lava based pokemon. The Groudon thing can easily be excused as it waiting for Kyogre to wake up so that they could do battle (which is what happens and notice how the harsh sunlight doesn't happen until Kyogre wakes up) since their entire existence is to fight each other.

I fail to see anything RS does better than Emerald in any capacity. It fixed pretty much everything wrong with RS.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

Emerald fixed some of the dumb shit from RS like a water based team blowing up a volcano thinking it somehow would turn into a hole to be filled with water for pokemon (and not just spill out magma and increase landmass) and a fire based team going UNDERWATER to try to find a lava based pokemon. The Groudon thing can easily be excused as it waiting for Kyogre to wake up so that they could do battle (which is what happens) since their entire existence is to fight each other.

I fail to see anything RS does better Emerald in any capacity. It fixed pretty much everything wrong with RS.

team aqua wasn't trying to blow up the volcano iirc, they were trying to deactivate it. which is a bad thing for some reason. also, you're aware that underwater volcanoes are a thing right? nothing weird about a magma pokemon being underwater.

why would groudon expect kyogre to wake up? why would it be remotely aware of team aqua's shenanigans? it makes no sense that it wasn't trying to expand the land during that time you spend hunting down team aqua.

the original RS had a very solid pacing. You encounter some minor evil team shenanigans in the beginning, then from about the halfway point everything starts building toward the events in the seafloor cavern. in emerald they felt the need to add in two encounters with team magma in this time that do nothing to increase the tension. the magma base in mt. chimney and especially the magma attack on the space station felt shoehorned in.

 

[Norzan]

team aqua wasn't trying to blow up the volcano iirc, they were trying to deactivate it.

And that's stupid because why would a meteorite deactivate a volcano? Since when that's a thing that can happen? At least blowing up a volcano makes sense if you want expand landmass.

also, you're aware that underwater volcanoes are a thing right? nothing weird about a magma pokemon being underwater.

Why would a lava based pokemon hide in an underwater volcano when there's plenty of active volcanos above the surface? Plus how did he get there?

why would groudon expect kyogre to wake up?

Because it can tell if Team Aqua has ITS OWN ORB and it's aware that Team Magma used the Blue Orb to awaken itself? Plus how long does it pass after awakening Groudon and stopping Team Aqua from awakening Kyogre? Not very long.

Let's not forget the fire based team making a lair in a place surrounded by water.

the original RS had a very solid pacing. You encounter some minor evil team shenanigans in the beginning, then from about the halfway point everything starts building toward the events in the seafloor cavern. in emerald they felt the need to add in two encounters with team magma in this time that do nothing to increase the tension. the magma base in mt. chimney and especially the magma attack on the space station felt shoehorned in.

If anything RS had pacing issues where you can spend a while without runing into the villain team. Those two encounters with Team Magma do increase the tension while making the pacing better by making it so the player runs into the actual plot of the game more often.

Plus, how lame it is to have this rivalry built between two titans only for the game to only show one? Emerald makes actual sense in this case as well since it shows both fighting each other.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

And that's stupid because why would a meteorite deactivate a volcano? Since when that's a thing that can happen? At least blowing up a volcano makes sense if you want expand landmass.

that is stupid, i'll admit that

Why would a lava based pokemon hide in an underwater volcano when there's plenty of active volcanos above the surface? Plus how did he get there?

why would one type of volcano be better than the other? also, it got there by going to sleep after a big battle with Kyogre. those battles don't have to take place on land, as seen in Emerald where they duke it out in Sootopolis.

Because it can tell if Team Aqua has ITS OWN ORB and it's aware that Team Magma used the Blue Orb to awaken itself? Plus how long does it pass after awakening Groudon and stopping Team Aqua from awakening Kyogre? Not very long.

how would it know team aqua's goals with the orb? in ruby and sapphire, someone other than the evil team has the other orb, yet the legendary still throws a fuss immediately.

Let's not forget the fire based team making a lair in a place surrounded by water.

to store a sumbarine to get to groudon

If anything RS had pacing issues where you can spend a while without runing into the villain team. Those two encounters with Team Magma do increase the tension while making the pacing better by making it so the player runs into the actual plot of the game more often.

both of them take place immediately before an encounter with team aqua. the base in mt. chimney takes place before the aqua base in lilycove (iirc, haven't played emerald in a long time) and the space station takes place before the seafloor cavern. so no, they don't make it so that the player runs into the plot more often. i also have to disagree with you on the tension; these events felt inconsequential compared to the team aqua stuff around the same time. groudon's awakening had no buildup and nobody cared that it happened. the space station felt especially pointless; why are we wasting time with team magma when team aqua's about to awaken the other legendary pokemon?

Plus, how lame it is to have this rivalry built between two titans only for the game to only show one? Emerald makes actual sense in this case as well since it shows both fighting each other.

this rivalry was never expanded on in the original games. doesn't feel strange to not have the other when the other is never even mentioned.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

while on the topic, i should also mention another thing emerald did very wrong: replacing Steven with Wallace. we did not need another water-type boss when we just fought a water-type gym leader, especially in a region that's already 7.8/10

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

The problem is that when approaching Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl, ILCA set out on a mission to be faithful to the originals. Is this necessarily a bad thing? No. But the problem is that the games didn't live up to what they could have been. Can you blame it on fan expectation? You could, but is it fair to when fans look at FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS? I wouldn't say its that fair to blame it on fan expectation. The thing is, these three sets of games took the originals and modernized them to match the current generation, while adding onto them. BDSP didn't do much of that. They kept the core of DP without modernizing it, adding Platinum content, fixing DP's serious issues, or introducing enough new content to separate itself from DP. Sure they added little features like following Pokemon and altering the HM system, but it wasn't much to truly separate it from the originals. The fans expected and hoped for a remake, but what we got was simply a remaster.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

The problem is that when approaching Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl, ILCA set out on a mission to be faithful to the originals. Is this necessarily a bad thing? No. But the problem is that the games didn't live up to what they could have been. Can you blame it on fan expectation? You could, but is it fair to when fans look at FRLG, HGSS, and ORAS? I wouldn't say its that fair to blame it on fan expectation. The thing is, these three sets of games took the originals and modernized them to match the current generation, while adding onto them. BDSP didn't do much of that. They kept the core of DP without modernizing it, adding Platinum content, fixing DP's serious issues, or introducing enough new content to separate itself from DP. Sure they added little features like following Pokemon and altering the HM system, but it wasn't much to truly separate it from the originals. The fans expected and hoped for a remake, but what we got was simply a remaster.

i don't think it's fair to call this a simple remaster. it did add features like the grand underground and ramanas park. but yeah, that's not enough for it to surpass Platinum as the definitive Sinnoh experience

 

[Palamon]

I think the reason there was so much hate is because they were too "faithful", for some people. Which, I can agree with to some extent. They were also definitely rushed out the door when they weren't even finished yet. Which is a problem, if you ask me. When the game came out, key features weren't even in the game yet and had to be patched in later. This was not a good look, to be perfectly honest.

I don't hate BDSP, but they were definitely not and never will be my favorite games. Felt nostalgia when playing and had my fun, but that's it.

Also, FireRed and LeafGreen were not that at all. They weren't copypastes of Red/Green/Blue because there was a lot in FR/LG that weren't in the original games: Natures, Abilities, Genders. The Sevii Islands. & ORAS weren't, either. To be honest, ORAS had a lot of differences from the original games. Don't think it's fair to say that about them. HG/SS wasn't really, either.

 

[KillerFrost]

I believe that part of the reason people loathe the games so much is due to how true the remake is; it's basically just a reskinned gen 4 with fairy type and an expanded underground.

I'm not saying this because I prefer the original games, but because if you look at the other remakes, fire red/leaf green, heart gold/soul silver, and omega ruby/alpha sapphire are all rather similar. Yes, they were remakes, but they added new content to the game. For example, FRLG introduced the Sevii islands and breeding to Kanto, and you could have a genuine Kanto experience by using the pokemon you remember from RBY.
The majority of players still believe HGSS to be the best remake to date due of how much content there is. It brings about the jhoto and kanto experience, but you also have following pokemon, battle frontier, physical/special divide, the pokéathlon, and so much more. ORAS brought Mega Evos and the dex nav to Hoenn, coupled with the 3D graphics of gen 6, a means to catch so many legendary pokemon, and the return of secret bases.

BDSP, on the other hand, is essentially a reskinned gen 4 with some graphic changes and improved performance; yeah, we received the following pokemon, but the sizes are nowhere near scale (poor wailord), as I wasn't anticipating wailord to take up so much space.

 

[Bluemew1512]

I believe that part of the reason people loathe the games so much is due to how true the remake is; it's basically just a reskinned gen 4 with fairy type and an expanded underground.

I'm not saying this because I prefer the original games, but because if you look at the other remakes, fire red/leaf green, heart gold/soul silver, and omega ruby/alpha sapphire are all rather similar. Yes, they were remakes, but they added new content to the game. For example, FRLG introduced the Sevii islands and breeding to Kanto, and you could have a genuine Kanto experience by using the pokemon you remember from RBY.
The majority of players still believe HGSS to be the best remake to date due of how much content there is. It brings about the jhoto and kanto experience, but you also have following pokemon, battle frontier, physical/special divide, the pokéathlon, and so much more. ORAS brought Mega Evos and the dex nav to Hoenn, coupled with the 3D graphics of gen 6, a means to catch so many legendary pokemon, and the return of secret bases.

BDSP, on the other hand, is essentially a reskinned gen 4 with some graphic changes and improved performance; yeah, we received the following pokemon, but the sizes are nowhere near scale (poor wailord), as I wasn't anticipating wailord to take up so much space.

I would have to agree. Plus, the remakes were a direct copy of Diamond and Pearl, not Platinum, and seeing as Diamond and Pearl were probably the weakest games of Gen IV, it just made people more disappointed in them.

 

[Bolt Strike]

i don't think it's fair to call this a simple remaster. it did add features like the grand underground and ramanas park. but yeah, that's not enough for it to surpass Platinum as the definitive Sinnoh experience

It's technically not a remaster, a remaster would look 99% identical to the original and wouldn't even have features like the Grand Underground or Ramanas Park or even smaller things like customization and Pokemon following. It'd feel more like they straight up copy/pasted DP's code onto a Switch cartridge and bumped up the resolution. You can clearly tell they remade the graphics from scratch and added content, so it's definitely not a remaster. But it's really not that far off. The graphical style is new, but it's seemingly designed to resemble the original graphical style so it almost looks identical. And they made far less improvements in the content than they have in previous remakes (HGSS, ORAS, even FRLG added much more than BDSP). So while it's not quite accurate to call them remasters, they're close enough in spirit to being remasters that I wouldn't be bothered by anyone using that label. They feel a lot like remasters.