Why was Team Rocket changed so much in the dub?

[Yamato-san]

Blame 4Kids trying to turn them into more Americanized cartoon characters.

indeed. Some of the blame does rest with 4kids for changing them so drastically in the first place, as much as some people may deny it (or even find a lot of their lines funny). For all we know, TPCi probably felt that suddenly changing them into the vain romantics that they are in the Japanese version would be too sudden of a transition, so all they could do is attempt to work with how the characters were molded in the English version since day one.

Jouto seems to be the time when TR started to be more rewritten. I think that's a factor as well.

that's where you'd be wrong. From the very beginning, it seems that 4kids tried to make them fit in with the type of characters you'd expect to see in a typical Saturday morning cartoon (keep in mind, anime wasn't very big at this time), so they made them act a lot more like just plain goofballs than they did in the original, even upping the ante by making James seem stereotypically gay (especially after Ted Lewis, whom just made the character sound whiny at worst, relinquished the role over to Eric Stuart) and Meowth having a Brooklyn accent. There have been notable dialog changes as well. In the (first) motto itself, while Musashi's lines were left mostly intact, the motto's beginning, as well as most of Kojirou's lines, had some notable alterations that could arguably reflect how these characters should be viewed (as I mentioned, they're vain romantics, so it'd make sense to respond to one's question with "the world's compassion" and talking poetically about their future success while using the galaxy as a motif.... in English, they start talking about "double trouble" and James seems to be more directly talking about how the Rocket organization intends to conquest through force, note the lines "extend our reach to the stars above" and "surrender now and prepare to fight" as opposed to something like "a white tomorrow awaits us"; though still a bit poetic, this seems to suggest a more violent and serious disposition, which seems all the more contradictory given 4kids's rewriting of them).

Some may disagree with me, but I find a lot of their dialog in the original to be of much higher quality than what 4kids would replace it with. One of my favorite instances was in the episode where Satoshi catches Hitokage. While both Nyaasu and Meowth complain about having a machine that only ends up digging another pitfall trap, Meowth goes on to complain about how Jessie and James forgot where they dug the hole after they covered it. Nyaasu, on the other hand, questions the need to cover a hole when the machine is "fully-automatic". Musashi retorts this by bringing up the limits of current technology. Personally, I found this exchange to be a lot cuter, involves a lot less of the cat simply bickering at the two, and it seems pretty well thought-out how they could casually reference the science of their world while still fitting into the context of the scene.

Well someone must be... I certainly recall that I'd wake up at ungodly hours on weekend mornings to watch Cartoons and I'm sure kids haven't changed that much 10 years.

the state of the internet in the past decade.... I rest my case.

 

[Sweet Veil]

I laughed a lot at Charizard deflecting TR's bombs back at them and Jessie/Kojirou and Musashi/Jessie's crazy looks and hand motions at the returning bombs.

 

[SSJ_Jup81]

It's interesting hearing how much the dub has changed the Rockets. Some of the stuff mentioned, I just couldn't imagine for the characters...granted, I'm only familiar, dub-wise with Kanto Rockets. Sad, though. The rhyming thing just sounds really awkward. Seems that if they would have 'em rhyme something, it'd be for a pun or every once in a while, not as frequently as you all are saying.

Then you would hate New Jersey cause' that's a Brooklyn accent Meowth is working with.

I'm certain you mean "New York", not New Jersey. ^^

the state of the internet in the past decade.... I rest my case.

lol When I was a kid, I would sometimes wake up at 6:00 just to watch Saturday morning shows...on the "Big 3", though. ^^

I guess internet, cable, and cartoons and stuff being shown a lot throughout the week as opposed to most of them only being shown on Saturday (like when I was a kid) is the reason why kids don't wake up early anymore. A couple of years ago, I worked at my former middle school as a teaching assistant. I was going on about how I used to wake up early to watch Saturday morning shows. They thought I was nuts, and for an age references, these kids were 11/12 years old. They were going on about how they wouldn't wake up early just to watch TV on Saturdays.

 

[Sweet Veil]

It's interesting hearing how much the dub has changed the Rockets. Some of the stuff mentioned, I just couldn't imagine for the characters...granted, I'm only familiar, dub-wise with Kanto Rockets. Sad, though. The rhyming thing just sounds really awkward. Seems that if they would have 'em rhyme something, it'd be for a pun or every once in a while, not as frequently as you all are saying. I'm certain you mean "New York", not New Jersey. ^^
lol When I was a kid, I would sometimes wake up at 6:00 just to watch Saturday morning shows...on the "Big 3", though. ^^

I guess internet, cable, and cartoons and stuff being shown a lot throughout the week as opposed to most of them only being shown on Saturday (like when I was a kid) is the reason why kids don't wake up early anymore. A couple of years ago, I worked at my former middle school as a teaching assistant. I was going on about how I used to wake up early to watch Saturday morning shows. They thought I was nuts, and for an age references, these kids were 11/12 years old. They were going on about how they wouldn't wake up early just to watch TV on Saturdays.

Oh yes I commonly get the two confused.

 

[Cybersai]

I think the difference is the show was only supposed to go on for 80 episodes, so 4kids didn't know how to handle them as well over literally hundreds of eps.

Seriously, TR were not intended to be used for over 600 episodes repeating the same gags until Best Wishes started.

This is why during Johto and AG they started to fall into the rut of doing the same thing in every ep, although AG revived them slightly by giving them new Pokemon and having Jessie start her Contests.

DP's character development kinda got messed up by PUSA, but oh well, we got the gist of it.

 

[Fud]

AG series made Team Rocket bland and boring,they were ten times worser in the DP series.

Team Rocket were at their best during the Kanto ,Orange Islands and the Johto sagas.

The BW series did retool Team Rocket just like they were in the first season of Pokemon.

 

[Elite Four Will]

I am impressed! Team Rocket is using less to no lame punny ryhmes. The TR motto is done wonderfully.

 

[Sweet Veil]

I'm not seeing as alliteration or ryhming just maybe 2 or 3 ryhmes.

 

[Eitarou]

Goodbye old Team Rocket

and I was worried they'd be changed

 

[Charbok]

I'm really surprised and happy that TR is actually serious now. I did hear a few rhymes and alliterations but overall their lines were pretty close to the original, including the motto.

Goodbye lame lines, awful alliterations, and horrific rhyming cheers! (at least I hope) =D

 

[Emboar]

Now I can relax knowing their dub voices are good.

 

[Cybersai]

As if PUSA could change them when they have little dialogue or mannerisms changes.

 

[Musashi]

As if PUSA could change them when they have little dialogue or mannerisms changes.

You never know with these guys.

But yeah. Why was Team Rocket changed so much sure is an accurate title now. Thank god that's over with.

 

[Fujioka]

Even with the little screentime TR gets in BW, I'm still happy they were dubbed seriously. No outdated slang, no whymes, noalliterations, and no face palming from me.

And I know this is a little off topic but is it me or did Giovanni's voiced change? He sounds more like his 4Kids voice now.

 

[Cybersai]

Ted Lewis reprised Giovanni.

Giovanni only had a different voice back in the second DP episode.

 

[Yabukuron]

Giovanni IS his 4kids voice. He came back somewhere in DP

 

[Fujioka]

Oh I see. I didn't think he'd play Giovanni again after the VA switch but I'm glad it's his voice.

I'm really happy about the motto. I think this is the closest translated TR motto we've had so far.

 

[Cybersai]

Ted Lewis reprised Giovanni since mid-DP.

Remember, we saw Giovanni in the DP ep where Jessie captures Yanma/Yanmega. He had his old voice there.

 

[Charbok]

Giovanni, Gary, and Wobbuffet are so far the only characters that still have their 4Kids voices in the dub. Well, more like were for Gary and Wobbuffet.

But yeah, I'm hoping they don't have Meowth say "funny" things when he dresses up like Umbreon.

 

[Fujioka]

Sorry to bump this but I was listening to the commentary for Pokemon The First Movie and they talked about Team Rocket for a bit. One of the writers said that Team Rocket was changed because they would constantly make references to Japanese things that couldn't translate well into English or dress up in Japanese clothes so they changed them.